Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]

[Hally]

i will say that i subbed into this game completely on a whim without realizing how large it was AND i have another game starting within a week that’s also kind of big

i tend to thrive in smaller games and feel out of my element subbing into such a massive thread so i don’t expect myself to become an obvious villager quickly or nail immediately nail wolves left and right. if it happens it happens but don’t hold your breath

One time I subbed into a game on a whim and scumread only townies and townread mostly mafia. I self hammered on D3 after screaming at town to exe a POE that was entirely filled with townies.

Never sub into games on a whim.

i know, i was there

[TonyStarkPrime]

Effortclearing me is a scummy move. Townies are more paranoid than that.

lol

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’m not effortclearint you I’m third person clearing you

[Alison]

Based on all these points I don't think Syndicate D1s are lazy or clout based.

i've just quoted 3 of your reasons for wolves and 2 of them contain slanking

I did not argue that Syndicate D1s aren't mostly slankers; I argued that Syndicate D1s are accurate, and not solely based on clout.

Maybe Syndicate likes exeing slankers but is also good at telling which slankers are mafia.

[staypositivefriend]

the only thing is that if i accept that the dichotomy of hally/alison is town, then it doesnt leave me with much (or any) room for deepwolves. that bothers me because i am so used to this type of gamestate having multiple buried wolves

even so, that's where my brain is leaning

What is "this type of gamestate"?

the type of gamestate where a lot of people "find" each other immediately and there is a consensus POE that is largely filled with wolfy players with no super obvious suspects - that type of gamestate usually implies a deeper wolf (ie: bread mafia, mountain climbing mafia)

i am not basing my scumhunting on the idea that there has to be a deepwolf, though

[BoKnows]

Does anyone want to hear the most cracked tinfoul theory in the world? It doesn't get more cracked than this unless your name is Justin

[Hally]

i’m going to call spf a villager so that if she’s indeed a villager wolves will her N1

[Hally]

i’m going to call spf a villager so that if she’s indeed a villager wolves will her N1

*will kill her

[tedxtr]

spf, why is marmot scum?

[Alison]

Ted, you've said that:

1) The top wagons are bad, because

2) They're being wagoned for bad reasons, namely:
a) Slanking, and
b) Minor nitpicks that people use as an excuse to avoid feeling bad when they flip town.

I presume you know the stated reasons for exeing the top wagons in this game. Clearly you believe the cases on them to be flawed. For each top wagon, tell me why you think the case on them is bad. Also, who are your preferred wagons?

[Alison]

the only thing is that if i accept that the dichotomy of hally/alison is town, then it doesnt leave me with much (or any) room for deepwolves. that bothers me because i am so used to this type of gamestate having multiple buried wolves

even so, that's where my brain is leaning

What is "this type of gamestate"?

the type of gamestate where a lot of people "find" each other immediately and there is a consensus POE that is largely filled with wolfy players with no super obvious suspects - that type of gamestate usually implies a deeper wolf (ie: bread mafia, mountain climbing mafia)

i am not basing my scumhunting on the idea that there has to be a deepwolf, though

Reasonable.

[staypositivefriend]

i’m going to call spf a villager so that if she’s indeed a villager wolves will her N1

fortunately, i am mafla

[Alison]

I’m not effortclearint you I’m third person clearing you

This does not change my view.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Based on all these points I don't think Syndicate D1s are lazy or clout based.

i've just quoted 3 of your reasons for wolves and 2 of them contain slanking

It isn't lazy to chop "slankers" when a wealth of rationale has been provided to support the choice by various different people.

It is lazy to decline to chop "slankers" merely because they are "slankers".

[BoKnows]

i’m going to call spf a villager so that if she’s indeed a villager wolves will her N1

fortunately, i am mafla

Gotcha!!! scum

[Hally]

i’m going to call spf a villager so that if she’s indeed a villager wolves will her N1

fortunately, i am mafla

that’s the opposite of fortunate

[tedxtr]

Based on all these points I don't think Syndicate D1s are lazy or clout based.

i've just quoted 3 of your reasons for wolves and 2 of them contain slanking

It isn't lazy to chop "slankers" when a wealth of rationale has been provided to support the choice by various different people.

It is lazy to decline to chop "slankers" merely because they are "slankers".

i've been asking for this wealth of rationale on at least one wagon for quite a bit and nobody is able to write anything that's concrete

for example : marmot

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Confident that we can bring home the win, but skeptical because I never do

Does it concern you that you seem to read half the consensus POE pool as civilian?

No, I'd prefer if the consensus was right over myself being right anyway.

So you're not concerned if someone you view as civilian ends up getting chopped (other than yourself)?

I'm playing a game of mafia where I'm surrounded by players of a higher skill level than I. If enough players conclude something that I don't see eye-to-eye with and they're right, then no I'm not concerned.

I don't know what to do with this laissez-faire mindset. I don't see this much if ever.

[fingersplints]

I don’t know what slanking is. I feel like it may have been asked so perhaps I forgot

[Hally]

is sloonei a villager? his iso gives me strange vibes

[tedxtr]

the only reply i got for marmot was from alison stating he had a weird interaction with kza

[Hally]

I don’t know what slanking is. I feel like it may have been asked so perhaps I forgot

slanking is the opposite of try harding i.e. playing in a manner that indicates low effort

[Alison]

i’m going to call spf a villager so that if she’s indeed a villager wolves will her N1

fortunately, i am mafla

[Long Con]

I cannot keep up with this.

I think you're good to just ease in at a comfortable rate.

I don’t know what slanking is. I feel like it may have been asked so perhaps I forgot

Slinking in and slacking is how I see it.

[Alison]

Confident that we can bring home the win, but skeptical because I never do

Does it concern you that you seem to read half the consensus POE pool as civilian?

No, I'd prefer if the consensus was right over myself being right anyway.

So you're not concerned if someone you view as civilian ends up getting chopped (other than yourself)?

I'm playing a game of mafia where I'm surrounded by players of a higher skill level than I. If enough players conclude something that I don't see eye-to-eye with and they're right, then no I'm not concerned.

I don't know what to do with this laissez-faire mindset. I don't see this much if ever.

This is just a fancy way of saying "the wagon is probably correct because everyone on it is town".

[BoKnows]

i’m going to call spf a villager so that if she’s indeed a villager wolves will her N1

fortunately, i am mafla

and I took that personally

[staypositivefriend]

spf, why is marmot scum?

i struggle to believe that marmot believes the stuff that he has been saying. his reads lack a certain level of conviction that i would expect marmot to have if he was playing from a villager mindset.

marmot constantly floated tutuu as one of his number one suspects throughout the early-game (calling her an openwolf at one point), but when he was asked to go into more detail about his scumread on tutuu, he said this:

@Marmot could you elaborate on those nanook and tutuu reads?

Tutuu's been an active presence in the thread, but changing her reads on a whim.

i find it difficult to believe that marmot carried this underlying suspicion about tutuu throughout the entirety of the game, and was only able to provide one short sentence explaining his scumread on her when he was prompted to. it concerns me even more that marmot voted for tutuu shortly after making this post. it gives me the impression that marmot does not particularly care about the accuracy of his read on tutuu and is pushing on her moreso for aesthetics sake

there were several moments where i felt that marmot outed reads/thoughts that felt ingenuine. i did not like his opinion about me and tutuu on https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 34#p761634. i did not like the false bravado on https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 75#p762175.

i am not confident about marmot being a wolf, but i find him wolfy

[Sloonei]

I was holding off on talking about this because I wanted tutuu to say more things before I put all of this out there, but that isn't going to happen, so here's what I've got:

I did not like tutuu's progression on me. It felt false.

Spoiler: show

Wait for real???

Alison just made a joke? Like. In her own humorous way u know. I mean u know her. That post of hers is very typical of her. Or if not a joke, like, just casual talk

I dont trust u for making an analytical wall about that alison post (i dont have a read on alison)

I think its full of BALLOONEI which rhymes with SLOONEI wow is he also maf

To someone without deep knowledge of the setup or the Fargo theme, there would seem to be two available theories about why someone else would immediately speculate about multiball:

1) That someone is on a mafia team and has some unique insight indicating that it's possible.

2) Fargo as a theme presents some unique structure that could be appropriate for multiball.

I don't fault Sloonei for his interpretation, and it seems evident Tony is familiar with the theme. So #2 is fine.

I can think of one more reason

Can you state one more reason?

Ur a cutiepie

Here's a couple early posts where tutuu kind of engages in some way with something adjacent to a read on me. The first appears to be a non-serious suggestion that I'm mafia which would not be a concern if not for the rest of the progression. The second is a playful non-answer to a Super Serious Question. But then we get into the main stuff.

Spoiler: show

tutuu
falcon
jayjay
fingerspints
nook
eso
oddmerta
alison

(townreads)

Mind talking about why I have not earned a nice cozy spot on your list yet?

i dont think any of your posts are more likely to be town than scum, as opposed for various reasons why im townreading my towneads

(im not putting people to the same standard / i dont expect similiar things from different people)

I demand specifics.

i dont understand, u want specifically why i dont townread you? that doesnt make sense? its like me saying "i dont believe in flying spaghetti monster" and u asserting that u need evidence for why i dont believe in flying spagheti monster; the onus doesn't have to fall on me to explain why i dont believe in something

unless ur asking something else and i dont get it?

I have made 74 posts in this thread. Several of them contain content related to the mafia game we are currently playing. You have presumably been reading them. You have a lengthy list of town reads less than 24 hours into the game. I am not one of them, despite several other people (on your list) asserting a confident town read on me, including the player in the game who knows me best. You are taking a different posture. I want to know why, and if there are any things that have been said about me that you disagree with, or by me that raise concerns.

oh - well thats a bit different

idc about other people's reads on u, ur good as wolf, im inclined not to sheep anyone on u. sometimes im jaded on sheeping, ppl can overestimate how well they can read someone

u have big posts that well are just sloonei big posts. u make them as town. u make them as scum in goc. i dont feel the need to put a lot of effort to try to solve u rn. its more energy efficient to solve the easier-to-solve slots first!

I felt fine about this exchange at the time, but given the way things progressed/ended from tutuu, I am more skeptical of it.

Tutuu had been throwing town reads out fairly liberally this game. I am not entitled to a town read, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest I've done enough to be accepted as town by most players. As evidence, I submit that I've been accepted as town by most players. Tutuu resisted this generally, but she never actually expressed suspicion of me. She only ever resisted the movement of town-reading me. There was never a clear read:

tutuu still has not offered a read on me.

yea u could either be town or mafia

But then she voted for me. And I tried to get her to talk about it. She wouldn't:

Spoiler: show

@tutuu explain the mindset behind your vote for me. please and thanks.

I wanted to vote someone

And you chose the name "Sloonei" out of all of the options on the poll. Why that one?

Out of the people im not townreading voting for ur name sounded the most interesting

Tutuu I am going to keep digging at this until you give me an actual answer so you might as well just do it.

I just gave u an actual answer

I just gave u an actual answer

You did not.

Your vote currently sits on Sloonei. Why? What is the intention? What is the motivation? What specific in-game events inspired this decision, and what are you hoping will transpire as a result of this?

Voting for sloonei is more interesting than voting for someone else as i previously answered

What properties of this vote or the potential transpiring events relating thereto bestow it with a great aptitude for generating intrigue than any other vote?

People are more likely to react to it as opposed to placing my vote on Al sama where nobody would react to it

What have you done to elicit reactions?
Which people are likely to react? Who in this game hasn't already taken a stance on me?

Yes

Tutuu never claimed to suspect me. Tutuu suggested I had not done enough to earn a town read, but did not offer any sort of remotely substantial comment on me beyond that. There was little to no engagement with the content of my posts.

She then voted for me. When pressed to talk about it, she said it was because a vote for me was "interesting" and could elicit reactions. Tutuu did nothing to elicit reactions. Tutuu did nothing to make a vote for me interesting. I am widely town read, so the range of events that could transpire from an unsubstantiated vote on me Day 1 is fairly limited. And, this is the kicker for me, when I gave her an avenue to make this vote interesting by talking about it, she was unable or unwilling to do so. And then she was gone.

I don't have a clear sense of what the agenda is here, but I have been struggling to believe any of the things tutuu said about me, and never got the sense that she was actually interested in reading me.

[Alison]

and I took that personally

nutella once actually took one of my memes personally: she scumread me because she thought I was a humorless robot as town who only cracks jokes to pocket people. I was town. Good times.

[BoKnows]

Confident that we can bring home the win, but skeptical because I never do

Does it concern you that you seem to read half the consensus POE pool as civilian?

No, I'd prefer if the consensus was right over myself being right anyway.

So you're not concerned if someone you view as civilian ends up getting chopped (other than yourself)?

I'm playing a game of mafia where I'm surrounded by players of a higher skill level than I. If enough players conclude something that I don't see eye-to-eye with and they're right, then no I'm not concerned.

I don't know what to do with this laissez-faire mindset. I don't see this much if ever.

This is just a fancy way of saying "the wagon is probably correct because everyone on it is town".

I agree with Marmot on this. Idc if one of my town reads gets chopped with good reason.

[staypositivefriend]

is sloonei a villager? his iso gives me strange vibes

i believe that he probably is, yeah

[tedxtr]

spf, why is marmot scum?

i struggle to believe that marmot believes the stuff that he has been saying. his reads lack a certain level of conviction that i would expect marmot to have if he was playing from a villager mindset.

marmot constantly floated tutuu as one of his number one suspects throughout the early-game (calling her an openwolf at one point), but when he was asked to go into more detail about his scumread on tutuu, he said this:

@Marmot could you elaborate on those nanook and tutuu reads?

Tutuu's been an active presence in the thread, but changing her reads on a whim.

i find it difficult to believe that marmot carried this underlying suspicion about tutuu throughout the entirety of the game, and was only able to provide one short sentence explaining his scumread on her when he was prompted to. it concerns me even more that marmot voted for tutuu shortly after making this post. it gives me the impression that marmot does not particularly care about the accuracy of his read on tutuu and is pushing on her moreso for aesthetics sake

there were several moments where i felt that marmot outed reads/thoughts that felt ingenuine. i did not like his opinion about me and tutuu on https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 34#p761634. i did not like the false bravado on https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 75#p762175.

i am not confident about marmot being a wolf, but i find him wolfy

thanks, this is at the very least reasonable and it's not based on slank!

[staypositivefriend]

i’m going to call spf a villager so that if she’s indeed a villager wolves will her N1

fortunately, i am mafla

this is 10000% me

[BoKnows]

and I took that personally

nutella once actually took one of my memes personally: she scumread me because she thought I was a humorless robot as town who only cracks jokes to pocket people. I was town. Good times.

lol emotionless robot scum

[Sloonei]

is sloonei a villager? his iso gives me strange vibes

Interesting

[JaggedJimmyJay]

for example : marmot

Rationale external to Marmot --> a pile of people have seemed town, removing them from candidacy

Rationale relating directly to Marmot --> degree of seriousness of his play parallels amount of suspicion presently heaped upon him; currently showing zero concern for the game state despite reading a bunch of POE'd players as town; griping with my generic cheerleader post as if it's remarkable; contributed to an environment of chaos with one of his goofy self-votes (i.e. eagerly participating in a state that I view as anti-town while not eagerly participating so much when the thread is healthier); beefing with SPF over adverbs as if Marmot is an adverb person

Probably not comprehensive

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I agree with Marmot on this. Idc if one of my town reads gets chopped with good reason.

But you're not willing to listen to town reads on Oddmerta from the same people potentially chopping a town read?

[Alison]

Re: Marmot, I've given you my two cents on what makes Marmot scummy. I've also said that even though Marmot is wolfy I am putting him in the upper POE precisely because I can't find a compelling concrete reason to exe him. I am voting people who I have strong reasons to scumread.

[Alison]

is sloonei a villager? his iso gives me strange vibes

Interesting

I had the same thought about you earlier, which is why I started out with easy townreads on Jay and Mac but not you, and reaction tested you at first. I only started reading you town a little bit later into the game after you got more fully into your typical town mode, plus you had the vote of confidence from Jay.

[Strawhenge]

@TonyStarkPrime

Who are you talking about here?

“Why doesn’t tsp want to chop someone half a dozen people are telling him is confirmed town I wonder”

Are you talking about Michelle? Did you mean, 'Why does tsp want to chop someone half a dozen people are telling him is confirmed town'?

You also phrase this question like it's a no-brainer. I'm braining it; what does it mean?

Then this:

I thought Michelle was a wolf because when Michelle’s town I expect higher post counts and one or two off the wall weird interactions early. It’s not like I just threw a dart at a dartboard

I don't think you threw a dart at a dartboard at all. I think you either think, 'her meta's off' is enough of a reason to think she's scum, or you wanted to make a provocative read/vote.

[tedxtr]

for example : marmot

Rationale external to Marmot --> a pile of people have seemed town, removing them from candidacy

Rationale relating directly to Marmot --> degree of seriousness of his play parallels amount of suspicion presently heaped upon him; currently showing zero concern for the game state despite reading a bunch of POE'd players as town; griping with my generic cheerleader post as if it's remarkable; contributed to an environment of chaos with one of his goofy self-votes (i.e. eagerly participating in a state that I view as anti-town while not eagerly participating so much when the thread is healthier); beefing with SPF over adverbs as if Marmot is an adverb person

Probably not comprehensive

thanks x2 ; i believe the strongest reason is the showing zero concern with a PoE that's upside down from thread consensus

do you think wolf!marmot is likely to go for the "post the weakest reasons in order to go at people that are active and considered town"?

i know it seems like a loaded question, but realistically, that's what I feel like he's done

do you think it's a fake approach designed...to get town read on derpiness?

[tedxtr]

derpiness is probably not the word, you get what i mean though

[Sloonei]

is sloonei a villager? his iso gives me strange vibes

Interesting

I had the same thought about you earlier, which is why I started out with easy townreads on Jay and Mac but not you, and reaction tested you at first. I only started reading you town a little bit later into the game after you got more fully into your typical town mode, plus you had the vote of confidence from Jay.

I'm mostly referring to Hally making that post while I was compiling my big post about why tutuu's progression on me was bogus.

[Strawhenge]

Isn't @Oddmerta familiar with AL_sama from somewhere that isn't the Syndicate? If so, I'd love to hear what they think of AL_sama in this game. Give us a little context.

[Alison]

If Marmot is wolf posting weaksauce reasons to scumread people, it's because his teammates are all in the POE. Hence he has to find a reason to push someone outside the POE. But they're all so townie, which is why they're not in the POE. Hence he has to make something up. When you try to force a scumread on someone by making random shit up you get bad reasons.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

thanks x2 ; i believe the strongest reason is the showing zero concern with a PoE that's upside down from thread consensus

do you think wolf!marmot is likely to go for the "post the weakest reasons in order to go at people that are active and considered town"?

i know it seems like a loaded question, but realistically, that's what I feel like he's done

do you think it's a fake approach designed...to get town read on derpiness?

I think even asking that question is already digging too deep into human nature to be reliable for anything, if I am honest with you. It's just too specific a context to warrant the WIFOM questions, and it presumes too much about what's happening in his brain.

SPF, for example, has been the subject of some degree of suspicion -- she isn't in a completely comfortable or untouchable position. So she makes for a generic target for someone looking for someone to gripe about, especially someone not on one's own mafia team. Marmot has known Epignosis, Lord of the Adverbs, for many years. SPF tends to write a lot of adverbs. Boom, there's poop to hurl.

It doesn't have to be mafia stuff, but I have no trouble seeing it that way.

[Alison]

It's kind of like how Mac (correctly) suspected me in Bread Mafia because I had a weak reason to townread someone. I had a weak reason because I was doing it specifically to pocket nanook (who I thought would townread that person as well and wanted to force a mind meld with him) and thus made up something I would normally not consider as town.

[BoKnows]

I agree with Marmot on this. Idc if one of my town reads gets chopped with good reason.

But you're not willing to listen to town reads on Oddmerta from the same people potentially chopping a town read?

Especially on Oddmerta. If I vote there and he doesn't get lynched it's not the end of the world.

[tedxtr]

thanks x2 ; i believe the strongest reason is the showing zero concern with a PoE that's upside down from thread consensus

do you think wolf!marmot is likely to go for the "post the weakest reasons in order to go at people that are active and considered town"?

i know it seems like a loaded question, but realistically, that's what I feel like he's done

do you think it's a fake approach designed...to get town read on derpiness?

I think even asking that question is already digging too deep into human nature to be reliable for anything, if I am honest with you. It's just too specific a context to warrant the WIFOM questions, and it presumes too much about what's happening in his brain.

SPF, for example, has been the subject of some degree of suspicion -- she isn't in a completely comfortable or untouchable position. So she makes for a generic target for someone looking for someone to gripe about, especially someone not on one's own mafia team. Marmot has known Epignosis, Lord of the Adverbs, for many years. SPF tends to write a lot of adverbs. Boom, there's poop to hurl.

It doesn't have to be mafia stuff, but I have no trouble seeing it that way.

maybe i'm reaching, that's fair

[Alison]

I think ted backing down on his Marmot read is mildly townie. He would probably have stuck to it more insistently if he was scum.