Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)

[Dyslexicon]

Hey gang. I've followed loosely and have at least a vague understanding of present game matters. I appreciate y'all giving me an outed mafia to start with; I will be digging into the interactions straightaway. I don't believe in ketchup, and that will probably be the best way for me to get acclimated. In the mean time folks should tell me exactly what I should care about the most in this game, more than anything else in the world. What's most important?

JIMMAAYYYY!

I think the most important thing to focus on is that you spew your last teammate.

[Dyslexicon]

I do have a legitimately reachy read which I haven't outed yet.

@JaggedJimmyJay
Wanna explain this for Alison.
What do you think that reach read is?

She already said, Gavial. It was spf.

[Dyslexicon]

Now that the game is over I can say that Alison talked about some rl health issues in scum chat in the just ended hydra game, so I'm reasonably sure her absence is not ai

Hoping she feels better soon.

[Dyslexicon]

could you explain why falcon45ca is in that POE? why is he scummy?

[Dyslexicon]

i've been weighing the theory that this specific exchange between invicitus and myself spews both nanook and koba as town

it feels like invicitus is trying to subtly "egg on" koba to continue pushing on nanook - koba had launched some aggressive attacks on nanook and when i tried to shut the conversation down, invict lit things on fire again by broadly complaining about nanook's playstyle and echoing koba's opinion

Yeah, and Invi's first real launch on someone was on Koba, saying he didn't like his first string of posts. I think he started the Koba suspicion before anyone else, if I'm not mistaken? Should speak to Koba's credit, me thinks. Similar to what Jay just said.

[Dyslexicon]

JJJ never makes it to F6/F5.

I understand that you suspect my slot and that's fine. I really would appreciate your feedback on my analyses though, especially those about your suspects -- you're in a uniquely strong position and I value that perspective. If you're going to suspect me then so be it, but it'd be super to get your takes.

Your analysis is fine. Thank you. You're still getting yeeted.

[Dyslexicon]

I prefer correct reads to spicy reads.

reads can still be spicy even if theyre consensus - like, if you had a super unique and wild reason to scumread the alison slot based on a heavily detailed infograph psychoanalyzing their interactions with invictius, i would find it villagery even if your read is a "consensus" read. the issue is that your reads feel relatively barebones to me

Lol. Speaking of, what do you think of my read of Alison? I find her handling of the "does Invictius know Dizzy?"-question all shades of wrong and unnecessary.

[Dyslexicon]

Let's try it this way:

Those who suspect me to whatever degree, could you please state what you believe to be Alison's worst crime(s)? I may or may not bother answering to said crimes, but it would still be useful to me to know what brought our dear player roster to this scenario. Thanks.

Worst crime is her reading Invictius town for RVS voting me when he knows me from beforehand. In that line of questioning she asked for games we had played together, which was totally unnecessary when the question could just be answered with a yes or a no. It created the impression that she didn't know anything about Invictius, but it was heavy handed and awkward. She also (indirectly) assumed Invictius as scum during that line of questioning and she assumed me (openly) as town. Her line of questioning seemed to be: "Is Invictius scum trying to make a harmful wagon stick on Dizzy?", which imo is an absurd take when the vote in question was an RVS vote on page 1. In no way would I be threatened by that. She answers this question with "No, Invictius would not be scum doing this, because he knows me from beforehand and knows how good I am at projecting town in smaller games. So this makes him more towny." Apparently for RVS voting me. She creates kind of a huge deal about it when asking for links to games me and Invictius has played and asks him to summarise my play in it, for no apparent reason that I can think of. Ungood. Very strange. Forced interaction. Unnatural investigation.

Her other takes has seemed strange to me. Her landing on a lhf she could've read well eventually is very uninspiring.

[Dyslexicon]

I agree with SPF on Marmot btw. His play so far has been inoffensive and with a lack of showing consideration for his reads.

I was considering whether Alison/Marmot would be a less likely team, since they both ended up voting Falcon, and too many scum voting the first misyeet together rarely happens imo. But thing is, Marmot was already on Falcon and Invictius was on LC. And those were the choices Alison had, and it would look strange if she voted someone else and she didn't care to stake out a new solution. So it's entirely possible that this is the team. But it could also not be the team. I have a very hard time seeing what the solve would be if both was town though. That kind of just doesn't work.

[Gavial]

Marmot/JJJ is never both town.
But 1 could be town.

[Gavial]

I think Vigilante should shoot Marmot here.

[Gavial]

I’ll track JJJ

[Long Con]

I’ll track JJJ

But you used that Shrine last night jk

[Long Con]

@JaggedJimmyJay I suspected Alison for a too-obvious move on Day 1 where she suspected Gavial and then resolved it and found him town. It felt fake. Then Gavial did some POE analysis and the conclusion was Alison and Marmot as Invictus' teammates, and that felt oh so right, considering that Marmot was my other suspect already for some reasons you can find in my ISO. I don't remember offhand, just got up and my mind is a little fuzzy, plus the two simultaneous games with a lot of player crossover is deadly to me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay I suspected Alison for a too-obvious move on Day 1 where she suspected Gavial and then resolved it and found him town. It felt fake. Then Gavial did some POE analysis and the conclusion was Alison and Marmot as Invictus' teammates, and that felt oh so right, considering that Marmot was my other suspect already for some reasons you can find in my ISO. I don't remember offhand, just got up and my mind is a little fuzzy, plus the two simultaneous games with a lot of player crossover is deadly to me.

I looked back at Alison's references to Gavial to determine what you're referring to. Is this the post that you're saying felt fake:

Gavial is slowly slipping back into his usual meta.

If not, which post? If so, what about this progression is "too obvious", or otherwise is there something contextual that leads you to that assessment of fakeness? I see that your initial view was mafia teammates -- something already debunked. It'd be super to get more clarity on your thought process given new developments.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Your analysis is fine. Thank you. You're still getting yeeted.

JJJ's getting cranky. I've gotten a couple of these replies already.

"Thanks for analysis, okay. Still, die."

I don't care about being thanked for doing things. I care about receiving feedback for the actual conclusions I have drawn, whether people agree with me or don't, and what specific points they feel need further discussion or reassessment etc. This is how I mean to incorporate myself into the Mafia game, and if I am not even given that respect then every civilian involved with that treatment is doing the team a disservice. Folks can suspect me without discarding me. That's not okay. I realize not everyone has done so, but at least three players have to my count.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm returning to my analyses, and I'm reversing the alphabet. That burned me when I analyzed Beelzebub since both mafia were at the end of the alphabet and I never got to them (or it would have if I'd been allowed to make a post).

[Long Con]

@JaggedJimmyJay I suspected Alison for a too-obvious move on Day 1 where she suspected Gavial and then resolved it and found him town. It felt fake. Then Gavial did some POE analysis and the conclusion was Alison and Marmot as Invictus' teammates, and that felt oh so right, considering that Marmot was my other suspect already for some reasons you can find in my ISO. I don't remember offhand, just got up and my mind is a little fuzzy, plus the two simultaneous games with a lot of player crossover is deadly to me.

I looked back at Alison's references to Gavial to determine what you're referring to. Is this the post that you're saying felt fake:

Gavial is slowly slipping back into his usual meta.

If not, which post? If so, what about this progression is "too obvious", or otherwise is there something contextual that leads you to that assessment of fakeness? I see that your initial view was mafia teammates -- something already debunked. It'd be super to get more clarity on your thought process given new developments.

What new developments? We have confident townreads and a sure red check, and the logic of those things led to the same place that I was already going.

Yes, I said "teammates" first, but now I see that Gavial doesn't need to be her teammate for Alison to act that way in order to fake a progression and pocket an aggressive player. I don't have a complex interconnection of posts that can prove beyond a doubt that I'm right, but I believe it. I felt it.

Your analysis is fine. Thank you. You're still getting yeeted.

JJJ's getting cranky. I've gotten a couple of these replies already.

"Thanks for analysis, okay. Still, die."

I don't care about being thanked for doing things. I care about receiving feedback for the actual conclusions I have drawn, whether people agree with me or don't, and what specific points they feel need further discussion or reassessment etc. This is how I mean to incorporate myself into the Mafia game, and if I am not even given that respect then every civilian involved with that treatment is doing the team a disservice. Folks can suspect me without discarding me. That's not okay. I realize not everyone has done so, but at least three players have to my count.

I don't want you to be cranky. I just saw you putting the great effort in, and hat it meant to me was "if anyone can save this doomed team, it's me, I'll dive right into Real Solving and change all the minds!" Which is of course the right move of a skilled player, and respectable, I just thought I owed you the truth.

[Marmot]

I'm returning to my analyses, and I'm reversing the alphabet. That burned me when I analyzed Beelzebub since both mafia were at the end of the alphabet and I never got to them (or it would have if I'd been allowed to make a post).

Lolol

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Invictus and TonyStarkPrime

From Invictus

Spoiler: show

Alison
DkKoba
Dyslexicon
falcon45ca
Fingersplints
Gavial
Hollowkatt
Long Con
Marmot
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Staypositivefriend
tonystarkprime


this is disappointingly less than i thought.

still a good start!

i dont include scum reads on my lists, but im more than happy to clarify who those are if anyone asks. particularly i dont like gavial, hollow, or koba right now and will vote among those 3.

if anyone thinks this is too many town reads, there's also a lot of town compared to scum! i like to solve via town reads and creating a poe to find scum. for the most part my town reads are pretty consistently good so it works well for me.

Could you explain finger

is this at me?

if so,

finger sees something she might not like from another player. she doesn't immediately pounce on it and instead questions to see where the person that finger is questioning goes with their answer. the fact she gave them room to operate and didn't immediately just go at them for the "trying to go after someone that looks weak and vulnerable to push" is what gives me town vibes. scum tend to lock in fast and early because they're just faking their read, she's actually trying to establish a read.

this is kinda wordy, but it's her method of developing the read i liked essentially. it's a towny approach.

Also technically salad but it’s fine in context

salad? like word salad?

im over-explaining everything because it's my first game and more often than not when you come into a new place while experienced you can look off to others youre unfamiliar with if you're just doing stuff and no one understands what you're doing.

what do you think of the 3 people i found scummy/out of the three who would you be most comfortable voting?

DK Leaning Town
Tony Leaning Town

I do not understand your reads


Can you give me a link to one of your scum games pls. Someone said this is typical of your town game so I just wanna cross compare and see if you're similar or different as scum

@MacDougall iso links in original please

click on the post count and then you can see everyone's # of posts as well as click on them to see the posts.

i'd way rather chop lc then falcon for secret reasons

but lc is town

why would you want to chop town?

LC imma be honest i dont think ur reads are like well founded in good faith - like why is Gavial scum here?

like i say this as I dont want to have to defend you from people eager to lim a slot that is playing poorly and want to in fact help you not play poorly here and cooperate with town and good faith hunt rather than push people who are >rand town lol

What do you mean by "good faith"? I think he could be scum. I thought so earlier, and his zaniness seems too forced.

or that could just be their personality...

Yeah, that could be. You seem to know. Do you know too much? You seem to know I'm town and that gavial's town. [VOTE: dkkoba] aubergine

Chill buddy even I know that much and I’ve read 70 percent of the thread

Ok, cool. [VOTE: unvote] aubergine

why did you back off so easily here LC?

From Invictus's side this interaction is pretty boring. There's nothing here that stands out to me as indicative of anything either way; it's all soft and directionless. If I want to stretch hard I might suggest the "why would you want to chop town?" is an easy bit of shade to hurl when you are looking for a place to do so (in this context a civilian Tony). I have little confidence in that view.

~~~

From TonyStarkPrime

Spoiler: show

Invictus, dizzy, hk, spf, falcon all town


I'm going back to hibernation now, more reads in 2-4 business days

Read on dizzy and HK seems question mark I agree on the others

I’m gonna give you a GTH list actually finger

Alison W
DkKoba T
Dyslexicon W
falcon45ca T
Fingersplints T
Gavial T
Hollowkatt T
Invictius T
Long Con T
Marmot W
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME T
Staypositivefriend W
tonystarkprime T

i'd way rather chop lc then falcon for secret reasons

but lc is town

why would you want to chop town?

Falcon was also town

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Mafia know who the prs are

No more setup slips will be accepted from here on out we've reached our quota

incredible

-actually good odds I’m the dumb one here but-

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Wanna come back and tell us why you and your team decided on it then?

Because I shot there too. I'm the vig.

Incredible

wait hang on that’s not possible because

Oh too late

Tony seemed to have Invictus as a town read up to his being outed. That's not necessarily a problem on its own power, though I have less understanding of what led to that viewpoint than I would like to have. Tony doesn't seem to have detailed that as far as I can tell. We're left to take it or leave it at face value. On balance log it as some degree of support for the mafioso.

~~~

Conclusion

This interaction is a sleepy one. While there's not a shortage of posts, there's a shortage of interest with respect to any alignment assessment. This makes me want to take naps. Tony can be Invictus's teammate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't want you to be cranky. I just saw you putting the great effort in, and hat it meant to me was "if anyone can save this doomed team, it's me, I'll dive right into Real Solving and change all the minds!" Which is of course the right move of a skilled player, and respectable, I just thought I owed you the truth.

If you're town, I hope you'll consider whether you're engaging in confirmation bias. I'm JaggedJimmyJay. I solve. This is how I have replaced into games for years, especially when a mafioso is already confirmed for me to work with -- it's much more useful to me than reading a thread front-to-back and trying to grasp context a week late.

What I would most appreciate is at least a cursory look at my TL;DR conclusions. I am not mafia, and that means much of the prevailing POE is flawed for at least one slot. I have a unique advantage from that posture of being able to solve without dealing with solving JJJ. This means I am likely to derive suspect(s) other people don't have. So let's talk about them. How about Tony -- please tell me what you think of Tony.

[Long Con]

For anyone who is very comfortable with the JJJ-Marmot team... why not Tony?

[Long Con]

I don't want you to be cranky. I just saw you putting the great effort in, and hat it meant to me was "if anyone can save this doomed team, it's me, I'll dive right into Real Solving and change all the minds!" Which is of course the right move of a skilled player, and respectable, I just thought I owed you the truth.

If you're town, I hope you'll consider whether you're engaging in confirmation bias. I'm JaggedJimmyJay. I solve. This is how I have replaced into games for years, especially when a mafioso is already confirmed for me to work with -- it's much more useful to me than reading a thread front-to-back and trying to grasp context a week late.

What I would most appreciate is at least a cursory look at my TL;DR conclusions. I am not mafia, and that means much of the prevailing POE is flawed for at least one slot. I have a unique advantage from that posture of being able to solve without dealing with solving JJJ. This means I am likely to derive suspect(s) other people don't have. So let's talk about them. How about Tony -- please tell me what you think of Tony.

I typed up that last post before I saw your last post.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I can already see the beginnings of a beautiful chat.

[Marmot]

For anyone who is very comfortable with the JJJ-Marmot team... why not Tony?

His tone early on in the game. He was quick to accept a townslip from Gavial as well, I think a mafia would want to keep that door open. He's probably the weakest of my townreads, but that's where I'm at right now.

[TonyStarkPrime]

For anyone who is very comfortable with the JJJ-Marmot team... why not Tony?

No

[Marmot]

I don't want you to be cranky. I just saw you putting the great effort in, and hat it meant to me was "if anyone can save this doomed team, it's me, I'll dive right into Real Solving and change all the minds!" Which is of course the right move of a skilled player, and respectable, I just thought I owed you the truth.

If you're town, I hope you'll consider whether you're engaging in confirmation bias. I'm JaggedJimmyJay. I solve. This is how I have replaced into games for years, especially when a mafioso is already confirmed for me to work with -- it's much more useful to me than reading a thread front-to-back and trying to grasp context a week late.

What I would most appreciate is at least a cursory look at my TL;DR conclusions. I am not mafia, and that means much of the prevailing POE is flawed for at least one slot. I have a unique advantage from that posture of being able to solve without dealing with solving JJJ. This means I am likely to derive suspect(s) other people don't have. So let's talk about them. How about Tony -- please tell me what you think of Tony.

I've skimmed your ISOs and nodded my head at them. I'm curious to hear your take on spf.

[Long Con]

For anyone who is very comfortable with the JJJ-Marmot team... why not Tony?

No

Calm down, I just want to be reminded of why you are townread. Do you not even know?

[Syn]

I don't really have anything to contribute to this and also do not have any issues with the currently formulated plan (yes, even the part where I'm the pick for if the game doesn't end)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Invictus and staypositivefriend

From Invictus

Spoiler: show

that was somewhat of a joke, sorry lol. it was a more than obvious answer to the question.

invictus town too

why?

The point is that Gavial is infamous for having insane troll logic and I think this is because he simply views the game in a very twisty and strange way that is far removed from everyone else's when he is town. His play this game seems much more orthodox and I believe this is a symptom of him trying to mimic "normal" townies.

if the assumption in this post is correct (that gavial's read on me was totally serious), then wouldn't you say that it's pretty unconventional/strange for him to have a confident scumread based on the first couple of posts on page 1? how would you say that those reads are "orthodox" or "sane"?

something might be getting lost in translation w/your read on gavial, because the only frame of reference i have for him is fargo mafia, where he was fairly normal (iirc)

i like this tho. somewhat cause the question makes sense, also somewhat because they're defending the person that voted them(i know it's an early day 1 vote that means nothing, but as scum it wouldn't be too hard to piggyback on either the accusation against gavial or against anyone that's been pressured thus far but SPF chooses to dig deeper for a read which ME LIKES).

SPF can have a slight town read.


that being said, do you find alison suspicious for coming to such strong conclusions early or is it a towny thing? based on her read of gavial im assuming meta isn't disregarded on this site!

alison having strong conclusions early is pretty typical for her as either alignment. i got pinged by her read initially because it had a train of thought that didn't seem totally fluid to me (ie: describing gavial's reads as "conventional" when his play up until that point had been anything but conventional), but i think it's fine in the context of alison having highly specific meta about gavial's playstyle, and in the context of her trying to provide content to a game that was almost entirely dead

i see, fair enough. you make nothing of it tho, correct?

what do you think about him backtracking in regards to the suspicion he showed on marmot and I? when i say backtracking i dont mean in that read itself, but he seemed to switch from taking things seriously to saying everything was essentially non-serious after alison attacked him?

does anyone stand out as particularly scummy to you?

okay well all of those kinda look the same:

strong town reads: dizzy/splints/spf
weaker town reads: alison/nook

Alison
DkKoba
Dyslexicon
falcon45ca
Fingersplints
Gavial
Hollowkatt
Long Con
Marmot
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Staypositivefriend
tonystarkprime


this is disappointingly less than i thought.

still a good start!

i dont include scum reads on my lists, but im more than happy to clarify who those are if anyone asks. particularly i dont like gavial, hollow, or koba right now and will vote among those 3.

if anyone thinks this is too many town reads, there's also a lot of town compared to scum! i like to solve via town reads and creating a poe to find scum. for the most part my town reads are pretty consistently good so it works well for me.

Current quick takes.

Alison is town for pushing for activity.
Dizzy is town for reasonable reads and OMGUSing. Good luck surviving til Day 2 Dizzy.
I am town because my rolecard says so.

oof, i don't like this post. do you think that alison would not push to make the game more active as a wolf? would dizzy not have "reasonable reads" as a wolf? this feels like a fairly surface level analysis

I disliked the post for other, maybe self centered reasons. Those being I was more active than Alison and had overlapping thoughts as dizzy yet Marmot didn't mention me at all

does that mean you wolfread marmot?

Leaning that way yes.

Ddk's frustration with nook reads Towny with me because the game I just played with nook had 3 separate townies all get frustrated in a similar fashion to nook(including me), altho that's not enough to really change my read on him. I'd still like to see one of their scum games for cross comparison.

I don't really understand hollow's play at all and I think his accusations against me are kinda bad, but the sheer tunneling gives me town vibes. Not sure why they're so persistent on scum reading and voting me while being tied as the leading wagon, but not shifting their attention over to ddk or even really going at them reads well because they're not overly concerned, at least not yet, with self pres. Unless I guess they could both be scum, but I'd assume they'd at least distance in that case.

I continued to like SPF's posting, seem rather carefree and town to me.

Flint kinda vibed town in my read back too but nothing concrete there.

Not really sure I like long con thus far as it feels like they're just coasting by letting day play out. If both wagons are town it would be good to look back on as it would make sense for scum to just sit back and wait in that case.

my vote is still up in the air, gavial. if you feel strongly about the current wagons being town and you have a good alternative, i will earnestly consider it

but you dont seem to be suggesting alternatives

Thoughts on long con?

no clue what nanook's alignment is yet

i mean they are purposefully trying to obfuscate it in an extremely anti town way that hurts solving - so if they're town they're playing like a jackass with no regard for anyone else trying to solve the game

nanook is? i dont really get that impression at all, he seems fine

is this how they normally play?

i barely paid attention to them in bread mafia bc they kept voting town lol

yeah he has a pretty chill playstyle but he tryhards when it counts in my experience

i dont mind him coasting as long as he picks it up when it's necessary, and i trust that he will

the issue is when he's scum he literally has to do very little to get near end game. And every phase counts otherwise why do any of us bother at all unless it's end game

im about to go to bed, but will be somewhat around before the deadline tomorrow. if u have any burning questions for me, i would ask them now

what do your current reads look like, SPF?

Who do you think isn't being looked at that should be looked at

im about to go to bed, but will be somewhat around before the deadline tomorrow. if u have any burning questions for me, i would ask them now

what do your current reads look like, SPF?

Who do you think isn't being looked at that should be looked at

AND THEIR NAME IS IN RED ON THE POST COUNT LIST, IF THAT ISN'T DAMNING WHAT IS?!?!?!


(i was looking at it to check to see if im sort of favouring active players for town reads and i kinda am, so ill keep that in mind)

there's a post count list!?!?!? today i learned

Let's you see all their posts too. Did you just never iso before lol

this is rough. i don't actively wolfread any of the highly active posters, but it's impossible to get an accurate read on the lower posters because they aren't .....posting. i feel partially like i am stumbling blindly in the dark based off of way too little information

i feel the same. i find it unlikely that all the scum are in the inactives, mostly as that isn't usually the way it goes, but hopefully we get some more light with some of the more inactive slots resolved.

well w/e, i don't care if this dude wants to fish my role out. i CC vig. i did not shoot last night

you can go into anti-spew now

Well I did good then.

Info is a shame as I figured I'd have gone far, but I got the remaining power roles outed so I can nap easy.
.

Orange: I'm referring to the full exchange of quotes ending with the orange blob. This is a meaty pile of text that I think should provide some promise with regard to meaningful interpretation. Some of the language Invictus uses, e.g. "SPF can have a slight town read", the classic "fair enough", and what looks like a loaded question beginning with "what did you think about him backtracking..." -- it gives me an impression of someone talking about and to a player with whom he doesn't already have a relationship in the game. Rather it looks like he has chosen SPF as a sort of solving springboard to involve himself and look the part, which would be a decent bit to her credit. I am not super confident about that, but it's still my perspective.

The intermediary interactions here are uniformly pro-SPF by way of strong town reads, reiterated town reads, agreement, etc. I wouldn't say it all moves the needle much as it's an extension of the previous point.

Yellow: I could probably reduce the entire interaction to this moment if I wanted to. I have still done the review for the sake of due diligence, but I'll speak more about this from the SPF side.

~~~

From staypositivefriend

Spoiler: show

that was somewhat of a joke, sorry lol. it was a more than obvious answer to the question.

invictus town too

why?

you seem comfortable and expressive in a way that most wolves in the early game are not. that's good enough for now

mm im pretty much caught up now. i got townvibes from fingersplints, invicitius, and dyslexicon. i would gth lean on long con being town as well for some of the posts he made around the page 4 mark. TSP's opening posts were villagery but he has to do more to earn a townread. i'm either neutral or lukewarm about anyone that i didnt mention

Current quick takes.

Alison is town for pushing for activity.
Dizzy is town for reasonable reads and OMGUSing. Good luck surviving til Day 2 Dizzy.
I am town because my rolecard says so.

oof, i don't like this post. do you think that alison would not push to make the game more active as a wolf? would dizzy not have "reasonable reads" as a wolf? this feels like a fairly surface level analysis

I disliked the post for other, maybe self centered reasons. Those being I was more active than Alison and had overlapping thoughts as dizzy yet Marmot didn't mention me at all

does that mean you wolfread marmot?

my vote is still up in the air, gavial. if you feel strongly about the current wagons being town and you have a good alternative, i will earnestly consider it

but you dont seem to be suggesting alternatives

Thoughts on long con?

i thought that https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 18#p785218 was a mildly villagery post, in the sense that it had this hyper paranoid tinfoil/conspiratorial energy that wolves usually do not have. i am lukewarm about the rest of his posts, but i dont really wanna chop him today

I want to leave my vote on dk cause it's clearly annoying him and his whole thing is mildly annoying to me

But he's probably town so

I'll move it eventually

why eventually. if you got nowhere else to be, LONG CON IS THE VOTE TO BE

why do you fos long con?

i guess this is where i reveal why i townread longcon, and the simple reason is, they intiated a vote on me, and thats usually town indicative to me. i guess its not really a good reason but also i think their intentions were towny. they were a very easy mislim in my last game with them.

This reasoning doesn't hold up for me at all. And I am considering voting LC. He's not a town read in a sea of town or mild town reads.

yes this is it.

essentially town points are a thing. if youre in the thread and you do stuff that makes you towny then TOWN POINTS. obviously scum can do towny things too, but generally speaking if a bunch of people are looking towny and some people have been around and just haven't then i think it's best to remove from there as it helps with POE because eventually those towny points lead to people just being lock town and making the game easy to solve.

there is no real big case or anything, it's just the best move for POE and the read itself comes from POE.

what does your POE look like right now?

im about to go to bed, but will be somewhat around before the deadline tomorrow. if u have any burning questions for me, i would ask them now

what do your current reads look like, SPF?

thanks for asking! i feel fairly strongly about fingersplints being a villager but it's more of a soulread than anything else - there is a level of sincerity/comfort in her posting that i find it difficult to believe that she would have as a wofl. my understanding is that dizzy has a very good wolf game, but i townread him as well - he has mindmelded with me at multiple points throughout the game with regards to our perspective and the stuff that we're interested in pursuing, and i like that he has an equally strong soulread on fingersplints

i still townlean invictius, even though i feel that his playstyle is one that i might be inclined to townread regardless of his alignment. i would GTH lean on nanook and koba being town - at least to the extent that i am not interested in chopping either of them today. i think that long con had exactly one (1) villagery post, so i'm not inspired by his wagon, but i'm not at a level where i feel comfortable defending or shielding him

i was lightly pinged by a couple of falcon's posts. i have been pinged by HK's posts too, but i'm holding my breath on that read because i think that HK has the capacity to make himself very obviously town if he actually is a villager. i have very little to say about alison, gavial, marmot, or tonystarkprime (i thought tsp's opening posts were villagery, but i need more for that to develop into a real townread.)

i wanted to explain these reads more, but i can barely keep my eyes open

Alison
DkKoba
Dyslexicon
falcon45ca
Fingersplints
Gavial
Hollowkatt
Long Con
Marmot
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Staypositivefriend
tonystarkprime


this is disappointingly less than i thought.

still a good start!

i dont include scum reads on my lists, but im more than happy to clarify who those are if anyone asks. particularly i dont like gavial, hollow, or koba right now and will vote among those 3.

if anyone thinks this is too many town reads, there's also a lot of town compared to scum! i like to solve via town reads and creating a poe to find scum. for the most part my town reads are pretty consistently good so it works well for me.

this is invicitus's early readslist, and if we live in a world where he actually is a wolf, then i think that this list contains one wolf at most. i dont get the impression that invict is the type of person to try to towncore both of his partners in the early game - he seemed more focused on being conciliatory and getting people to townread him (which evidently worked, since i townread him throughout the majority of d1)

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Wanna come back and tell us why you and your team decided on it then?

Because I shot there too. I'm the vig.

youre claiming to have shot fingersplints?

well w/e, i don't care if this dude wants to fish my role out. i CC vig. i did not shoot last night

you can go into anti-spew now

The general trend here is two-fold: SPF tends to town read Invictus while also continually examining Invictus. At face value I appreciate the latter, and it's what I'd expect of SPF (someone I consider to be one of the more conscientious solvers around) -- even with a read established, she isn't finished establishing it. That makes it easier to forgive her read having been the wrong one.

Orange: This is a more charitable approach to Invictus than I'd like. This is a good thing for SPF to expand on if not already done -- what about the Invictus playstyle do you suppose would create this bias?

Yellow: I return to this, and the interaction of these two really boils down to the claim and counter-claim. Foremost: I have seen this before. SPF did something very similar to poor Mellow Ezlo in S7G6 when he fake claimed. From that perspective, I appreciate this moment -- particularly given that I was not in the game yet so it couldn't have been done to schmooze anyone from Game 6 who might remember that. Moreover, if we follow the progression of SPF's read and consider her as a teammate of Invictus, I struggle to make sense of why this would exist. She had given him town credit, so she has an out to at least entertain the vigilante claim for a moment before just CCing him to oblivion. She didn't do that, to her credit. So if we want to call her his teammate, we're forced to dwell in a realm of pure wifom -- the two of them specifically planned this claim and counter for theater. That's not impossible, but nor is it something that strikes me as the most likely scenario. I am not sure there's a good reason to say that's what happened beyond pure conjecture.

~~~

Conclusion

What I like most here is that, while I am tempted to reduce the interaction to just the claim and counter alone, given this review I don't necessarily need to do so. The rest of it trends in a direction that I like anyway, so I don't find myself contending with some significant conflict that brings the wifom theory out to the forefront. I would be surprised if SPF is an Invictus teammate. Given that this read is inherently more wifom-driven than others, I always welcome discussion.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Invictus and Nanook

From Invictus

Spoiler: show

Bluey hands down the best kids show on TV in a long ass time

I'm also partial to gumball

gumball is good but it's not bluey good. I do also really like Daniel Tiger (but that's like easy mode), Word Girl, and Little Einsteins.

Oh god the little Einsteins, I have nightmares

Ducktales also deserves honorable mention

pinky and the brain and animaniacs >>>

"It was just a joke bro" isn't a convincing defense to me.

I mean I had more then just that and your case on me is based on thinking it’s not a joke when clearly it was.

what are your thoughts on alison thus far? And dyslexicon?

No he’s Lock Town.
Get off them!

Nah I do what I want.

But to be real, Hollow hasn't said or done anything that makes me think they are any particular alignment. It's a shrug from me. Your read on Hollow is not mine, and I'm not convinced by the reasoning of it, which is also a subjective thing. But if Hollow is town (or not), I think I should be able to figure it out.

i dont like giving this away before it gets anywhere tho. why not wait and see?

Nanook, still posting about shows and not players?

what is our experience with them because based on my limited experience i dont think that would indicate much of anything.

Nanook, still posting about shows and not players?

What do you think this means?

hi

i shouldn't answer for them but i havent interacted with you yet so i will!


if someone chooses to continue fluffing instead of getting involved people find it suspicious as fluff is something scum can hide behind instead of having to engage in the actual content of the game

that said my understanding is nook is pretty experienced and most wolves are self-aware enough to know to get somewhat involved so they don't look bad whereas town are more apathetic to it. it looks similar to my experience with nook so i think it's kinda towny, but i have no idea what his scum game is like.

Bluey hands down the best kids show on TV in a long ass time

I'm also partial to gumball

gumball is good but it's not bluey good. I do also really like Daniel Tiger (but that's like easy mode), Word Girl, and Little Einsteins.

Oh god the little Einsteins, I have nightmares

Ducktales also deserves honorable mention

pinky and the brain and animaniacs >>>

"It was just a joke bro" isn't a convincing defense to me.

I mean I had more then just that and your case on me is based on thinking it’s not a joke when clearly it was.

what are your thoughts on alison thus far? And dyslexicon?

I mean yeah Animaniacs is great but it isn't on Disney Channel every morning

ROAD RUNNER then


even though it taught kids that no matter how hard you try, no matter how creative you are, no matter how much work you put into something you might never succeed and always continue to fail to someone that is hardly trying at all.

but it was also funny.

Alison
DkKoba
Dyslexicon
falcon45ca
Fingersplints
Gavial
Hollowkatt
Long Con
Marmot
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Staypositivefriend
tonystarkprime


this is disappointingly less than i thought.

still a good start!

i dont include scum reads on my lists, but im more than happy to clarify who those are if anyone asks. particularly i dont like gavial, hollow, or koba right now and will vote among those 3.

if anyone thinks this is too many town reads, there's also a lot of town compared to scum! i like to solve via town reads and creating a poe to find scum. for the most part my town reads are pretty consistently good so it works well for me.

no clue what nanook's alignment is yet

i mean they are purposefully trying to obfuscate it in an extremely anti town way that hurts solving - so if they're town they're playing like a jackass with no regard for anyone else trying to solve the game

nanook is? i dont really get that impression at all, he seems fine

is this how they normally play?

i barely paid attention to them in bread mafia bc they kept voting town lol

yeah he has a pretty chill playstyle but he tryhards when it counts in my experience

i dont mind him coasting as long as he picks it up when it's necessary, and i trust that he will

the issue is when he's scum he literally has to do very little to get near end game. And every phase counts otherwise why do any of us bother at all unless it's end game

i mean they are purposefully trying to obfuscate it in an extremely anti town way that hurts solving - so if they're town they're playing like a jackass with no regard for anyone else trying to solve the game

nanook is? i dont really get that impression at all, he seems fine

is this how they normally play?

i barely paid attention to them in bread mafia bc they kept voting town lol

yeah he has a pretty chill playstyle but he tryhards when it counts in my experience

i dont mind him coasting as long as he picks it up when it's necessary, and i trust that he will

the issue is when he's scum he literally has to do very little to get near end game. And every phase counts otherwise why do any of us bother at all unless it's end game

yeah im also rereading my last game with him - he was super active.

like unless nanook is exactly an IC i dont think they are town here. but ive been disappointed by townies before acting this way so ((((((:

again he just did this in a game i was in on mafiacafe, with the exact same comments(to be fair, he started doing more on day 2, so we'll see!)

I want to leave my vote on dk cause it's clearly annoying him and his whole thing is mildly annoying to me

But he's probably town so

I'll move it eventually

why eventually. if you got nowhere else to be, LONG CON IS THE VOTE TO BE

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Mafia know who the prs are

Like they chose who got to be a power role? Wtf that's madness

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Mafia know who the prs are

Like they chose who got to be a power role? Wtf that's madness

Maybe read the setup lol

This is no Bueno

Orange: There's an early trend here wherein Invictus speaks on behalf of Nanook (or on behalf of Nanook via Long Con), usually to make low-level meta assertions about what he thinks Nanook is like. The assertions are generally valid; that is, Nanook is indeed one to be less concerned with assessing every player early in a game and doesn't care about being fluffy sometimes. In that light, this literal assessment would be innocuous as an overall read of "NAI",

Yellow: which brings me to this post. Nanook was one of Invictus's five blued-out town reads, and compared to the others players featured in that group that rationale provided previously is pretty light. It's essentially what I referenced in the previous point. So his name stands out here.

The remainder of this is generally soft material -- musing over Nanook's playstyle, halfway standing in his defense when DK was cranky, and setup chatter. None of that means much to me.

~~~

From Nanook

Spoiler: show

I'm also partial to gumball

gumball is good but it's not bluey good. I do also really like Daniel Tiger (but that's like easy mode), Word Girl, and Little Einsteins.

Oh god the little Einsteins, I have nightmares

Ducktales also deserves honorable mention

pinky and the brain and animaniacs >>>

"It was just a joke bro" isn't a convincing defense to me.

I mean I had more then just that and your case on me is based on thinking it’s not a joke when clearly it was.

what are your thoughts on alison thus far? And dyslexicon?

I mean yeah Animaniacs is great but it isn't on Disney Channel every morning

ROAD RUNNER then


even though it taught kids that no matter how hard you try, no matter how creative you are, no matter how much work you put into something you might never succeed and always continue to fail to someone that is hardly trying at all.

but it was also funny.

Yeah in road runner i always felt bad for the coyote, dude is just out here trying to get a meal

Looney tunes in general are mostly pretty good, definitely a go to

Invictus, dizzy, hk, spf, falcon all town


I'm going back to hibernation now, more reads in 2-4 business days

no clue what nanook's alignment is yet

i mean they are purposefully trying to obfuscate it in an extremely anti town way that hurts solving - so if they're town they're playing like a jackass with no regard for anyone else trying to solve the game

nanook is? i dont really get that impression at all, he seems fine

is this how they normally play?

i barely paid attention to them in bread mafia bc they kept voting town lol

yeah he has a pretty chill playstyle but he tryhards when it counts in my experience

i dont mind him coasting as long as he picks it up when it's necessary, and i trust that he will

the issue is when he's scum he literally has to do very little to get near end game. And every phase counts otherwise why do any of us bother at all unless it's end game

In practice this doesn't usually end up being true

I want to leave my vote on dk cause it's clearly annoying him and his whole thing is mildly annoying to me

But he's probably town so

I'll move it eventually

why eventually. if you got nowhere else to be, LONG CON IS THE VOTE TO BE

Cause its almost 3am

I will not be back again before deadline

Tsp gav hk dk spf dizzy falcon and invictus are my town


Leaving my vote on lc as an explicit falcon save, suggest finding someone else cause killing lc d1 is pretty meh

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Wanna come back and tell us why you and your team decided on it then?

INVIC doesn’t say this after Vig shooting Finger lol.

To play devils advocate for a minute, yeah, that's exactly what a vig would say lol

There's not a lot new going on in this set of interactions. Nanook did town read Invictus. Okay. In classically Nanook style I don't know why and can only wonder -- perhaps he'll expand. I have very little to say about this stuff.

~~~

Conclusion

This is a dry interaction. From the Invictus side I have some questions. From the Nanook side I don't have much of anything. I have no reason to dissociate these two. Nanook can be Invictus's teammate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yes but you said my name a bunch and that's close enough

I just determined that as of your gripe, I had said your name exactly three times in this thread, twice as tangential mentions when I was discussing DK and once as an ISO link. What are you talking about?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

All y'all with town reads you've developed through the game, I suggest doing a trustfall. Find your bias.

[Gavial]

I'm returning to my analyses, and I'm reversing the alphabet. That burned me when I analyzed Beelzebub since both mafia were at the end of the alphabet and I never got to them (or it would have if I'd been allowed to make a post).

Oh no you missed “A”.
Alison.

Too bad IDC if you want to do this at least do you own slot please, judge it as a third perspective.

[Gavial]

If you don’t want to do this*

[Gavial]

If your actually town maybe analysising Alison will help you understand your position better and maybe help you find a way to clear yourself.

[Gavial]

Interactions of Invictus and TonyStarkPrime

From Invictus

Spoiler: show

Alison
DkKoba
Dyslexicon
falcon45ca
Fingersplints
Gavial
Hollowkatt
Long Con
Marmot
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Staypositivefriend
tonystarkprime


this is disappointingly less than i thought.

still a good start!

i dont include scum reads on my lists, but im more than happy to clarify who those are if anyone asks. particularly i dont like gavial, hollow, or koba right now and will vote among those 3.

if anyone thinks this is too many town reads, there's also a lot of town compared to scum! i like to solve via town reads and creating a poe to find scum. for the most part my town reads are pretty consistently good so it works well for me.

Could you explain finger

is this at me?

if so,

finger sees something she might not like from another player. she doesn't immediately pounce on it and instead questions to see where the person that finger is questioning goes with their answer. the fact she gave them room to operate and didn't immediately just go at them for the "trying to go after someone that looks weak and vulnerable to push" is what gives me town vibes. scum tend to lock in fast and early because they're just faking their read, she's actually trying to establish a read.

this is kinda wordy, but it's her method of developing the read i liked essentially. it's a towny approach.

Also technically salad but it’s fine in context

salad? like word salad?

im over-explaining everything because it's my first game and more often than not when you come into a new place while experienced you can look off to others youre unfamiliar with if you're just doing stuff and no one understands what you're doing.

what do you think of the 3 people i found scummy/out of the three who would you be most comfortable voting?

DK Leaning Town
Tony Leaning Town

I do not understand your reads


Can you give me a link to one of your scum games pls. Someone said this is typical of your town game so I just wanna cross compare and see if you're similar or different as scum

@MacDougall iso links in original please

click on the post count and then you can see everyone's # of posts as well as click on them to see the posts.

i'd way rather chop lc then falcon for secret reasons

but lc is town

why would you want to chop town?

LC imma be honest i dont think ur reads are like well founded in good faith - like why is Gavial scum here?

like i say this as I dont want to have to defend you from people eager to lim a slot that is playing poorly and want to in fact help you not play poorly here and cooperate with town and good faith hunt rather than push people who are >rand town lol

What do you mean by "good faith"? I think he could be scum. I thought so earlier, and his zaniness seems too forced.

or that could just be their personality...

Yeah, that could be. You seem to know. Do you know too much? You seem to know I'm town and that gavial's town. [VOTE: dkkoba] aubergine

Chill buddy even I know that much and I’ve read 70 percent of the thread

Ok, cool. [VOTE: unvote] aubergine

why did you back off so easily here LC?

From Invictus's side this interaction is pretty boring. There's nothing here that stands out to me as indicative of anything either way; it's all soft and directionless. If I want to stretch hard I might suggest the "why would you want to chop town?" is an easy bit of shade to hurl when you are looking for a place to do so (in this context a civilian Tony). I have little confidence in that view.

~~~

From TonyStarkPrime

Spoiler: show

Invictus, dizzy, hk, spf, falcon all town


I'm going back to hibernation now, more reads in 2-4 business days

Read on dizzy and HK seems question mark I agree on the others

I’m gonna give you a GTH list actually finger

Alison W
DkKoba T
Dyslexicon W
falcon45ca T
Fingersplints T
Gavial T
Hollowkatt T
Invictius T
Long Con T
Marmot W
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME T
Staypositivefriend W
tonystarkprime T

i'd way rather chop lc then falcon for secret reasons

but lc is town

why would you want to chop town?

Falcon was also town

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Mafia know who the prs are

No more setup slips will be accepted from here on out we've reached our quota

incredible

-actually good odds I’m the dumb one here but-

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Wanna come back and tell us why you and your team decided on it then?

Because I shot there too. I'm the vig.

Incredible

wait hang on that’s not possible because

Oh too late

Tony seemed to have Invictus as a town read up to his being outed. That's not necessarily a problem on its own power, though I have less understanding of what led to that viewpoint than I would like to have. Tony doesn't seem to have detailed that as far as I can tell. We're left to take it or leave it at face value. On balance log it as some degree of support for the mafioso.

~~~

Conclusion

This interaction is a sleepy one. While there's not a shortage of posts, there's a shortage of interest with respect to any alignment assessment. This makes me want to take naps. Tony can be Invictus's teammate.

Maybe from a team perspective sure.
But @JaggedJimmyJay
Individually Tony is town due to their PR cover twice that just never comes from scum.

[Gavial]

For anyone who is very comfortable with the JJJ-Marmot team... why not Tony?

Nope.
PR cover is highly town indicative.

It’s JJJ-Marmot team almost always.
Syn if not.

[Gavial]

Interactions of Invictus and DkKoba / Syn

From Invictus

Spoiler: show

LC imma be honest i dont think ur reads are like well founded in good faith - like why is Gavial scum here?

like i say this as I dont want to have to defend you from people eager to lim a slot that is playing poorly and want to in fact help you not play poorly here and cooperate with town and good faith hunt rather than push people who are >rand town lol

What do you mean by "good faith"? I think he could be scum. I thought so earlier, and his zaniness seems too forced.

or that could just be their personality...

Yeah, that could be. You seem to know. Do you know too much? You seem to know I'm town and that gavial's town. [VOTE: dkkoba] aubergine

Chill buddy even I know that much and I’ve read 70 percent of the thread

Ok, cool. [VOTE: unvote] aubergine

why did you back off so easily here LC?

if i have to pick between dkk and falcon im going with falcon because dkk had that towny interaction with nook(well towny frustration). dont really have any lean on falcon, they're mostly null, but my preference is still lc mostly because i felt they were around more and still decided not to participate in a meaningful way.

Yes. I’m just forgetful of what/who/why in regards to the hollowkatt suspicion. I think I was focused on the DkK thing when it was going on.

fair enough.

i was also on the dizzy wagon and i unvoted mostly due to their persistent tunneling of me even while facing a heavy wagon. going against the grain and sticking to it even while tied with another poster(at the time dkk, they both had 4) is usually a town look as id expect scum to go more in a self-pres mentality. they didn't even bring up dkk when they could have.

i did mention that it could be due to them being teammates and not wanting to sink one another so early on, but for now i doubt that as i think distancing would be the optimal play in that scenario but it's possible.

i think dizzy is still kinda somewhat suspect of them, but just thought long con is more in his poe? i could be wrong there.

also idk if allison's sleep schedule has changed but i dont like that she has not posted recently at all - she did this coasting strategy when we were scum together last time - which may imply the current wagons are TvT with scum!allison

i missed this. what is the strategy

Its not a strategy moreso i saw firsthand that alison has been active in scumthread when townies were fightjng eachother when we were scum together in bread mafia. Tutuu and i actually warned her to turn off thread visibility bc she was visible online while being asked a question she wanted to dodge lmao

I also was guilty of this as scum that game bc i was happy watching town fight eachother while i got free townreads from ppl ignorant of my meta thinking i was towny.

Oh ya that makes sense as a general tell.

i guess this is where i reveal why i townread longcon, and the simple reason is, they intiated a vote on me, and thats usually town indicative to me. i guess its not really a good reason but also i think their intentions were towny. they were a very easy mislim in my last game with them.

This reasoning doesn't hold up for me at all. And I am considering voting LC. He's not a town read in a sea of town or mild town reads.

yes this is it.

essentially town points are a thing. if youre in the thread and you do stuff that makes you towny then TOWN POINTS. obviously scum can do towny things too, but generally speaking if a bunch of people are looking towny and some people have been around and just haven't then i think it's best to remove from there as it helps with POE because eventually those towny points lead to people just being lock town and making the game easy to solve.

there is no real big case or anything, it's just the best move for POE and the read itself comes from POE.

also idk if allison's sleep schedule has changed but i dont like that she has not posted recently at all - she did this coasting strategy when we were scum together last time - which may imply the current wagons are TvT with scum!allison

i missed this. what is the strategy

I want to leave my vote on dk cause it's clearly annoying him and his whole thing is mildly annoying to me

But he's probably town so

I'll move it eventually

why eventually. if you got nowhere else to be, LONG CON IS THE VOTE TO BE

nanook is? i dont really get that impression at all, he seems fine

is this how they normally play?

i barely paid attention to them in bread mafia bc they kept voting town lol

yeah he has a pretty chill playstyle but he tryhards when it counts in my experience

i dont mind him coasting as long as he picks it up when it's necessary, and i trust that he will

the issue is when he's scum he literally has to do very little to get near end game. And every phase counts otherwise why do any of us bother at all unless it's end game

yeah im also rereading my last game with him - he was super active.

like unless nanook is exactly an IC i dont think they are town here. but ive been disappointed by townies before acting this way so ((((((:

again he just did this in a game i was in on mafiacafe, with the exact same comments(to be fair, he started doing more on day 2, so we'll see!)

im willing to also wagon allison for info but i fear we dont have the time to get any information out of any push we make here now :/

really hating that the game started with role PMs sent out vs confirmations (unless im wrong and then pee pee poo poo)

there's 17 hours left?

my vote is still up in the air, gavial. if you feel strongly about the current wagons being town and you have a good alternative, i will earnestly consider it

but you dont seem to be suggesting alternatives

Thoughts on long con?

i said they were town - why would they be scum here?

for the exact reasons i said. in a scenario where both you and hk are town, scum have to do very little outside of letting the wagons play out and they're guaranteed a scum flip.

outside of that, there's no reason to hard lock town reads halfway through day 1(well 60% through day 1) and discussion doesn't hurt. i just generally feel like their impact is low.

alison is another person that has gone mia since the start of the phase as well.

Current quick takes.

Alison is town for pushing for activity.
Dizzy is town for reasonable reads and OMGUSing. Good luck surviving til Day 2 Dizzy.
I am town because my rolecard says so.

oof, i don't like this post. do you think that alison would not push to make the game more active as a wolf? would dizzy not have "reasonable reads" as a wolf? this feels like a fairly surface level analysis

I disliked the post for other, maybe self centered reasons. Those being I was more active than Alison and had overlapping thoughts as dizzy yet Marmot didn't mention me at all

does that mean you wolfread marmot?

Leaning that way yes.

Ddk's frustration with nook reads Towny with me because the game I just played with nook had 3 separate townies all get frustrated in a similar fashion to nook(including me), altho that's not enough to really change my read on him. I'd still like to see one of their scum games for cross comparison.

I don't really understand hollow's play at all and I think his accusations against me are kinda bad, but the sheer tunneling gives me town vibes. Not sure why they're so persistent on scum reading and voting me while being tied as the leading wagon, but not shifting their attention over to ddk or even really going at them reads well because they're not overly concerned, at least not yet, with self pres. Unless I guess they could both be scum, but I'd assume they'd at least distance in that case.

I continued to like SPF's posting, seem rather carefree and town to me.

Flint kinda vibed town in my read back too but nothing concrete there.

Not really sure I like long con thus far as it feels like they're just coasting by letting day play out. If both wagons are town it would be good to look back on as it would make sense for scum to just sit back and wait in that case.

spf obvtown

pocket accepted

that was a bait post and u passed, for now.

What would a fail be? That seemed like a really basic answer.

DK Leaning Town
Tony Leaning Town

I do not understand your reads


Can you give me a link to one of your scum games pls. Someone said this is typical of your town game so I just wanna cross compare and see if you're similar or different as scum

where is the activity overview on this site so i can find whos talked yet

[VOTE: long con] aubergine

Just gonna assume person who hasn't voted yet is one of them

lets do itttt wagon up

not really sure i like this string of posts too as it was no longer RVS and there was clearly content to make reads from and go after.

I forgot to start from the opposite end with the backwards ISOs, so read the posts in this quote from the bottom to the top for the correct sequence. I'll fix that in future spoilers.

Orange: Invictus started with some rather specific shade of DK in that bottommost post - it was no longer RVS, random vote bad - easy accusation to hurl and given my interpretation of DK's posts at face value inaccurate (doesn't look like an RVS-styled vote to me). I think that's a nice start for DK.

Yellow: Invictus gave DK town points for their frustration with Nanook. To better interpret that, I went back and looked at DK's spat(s) with Nanook. DK's frustration does seem significant, so I don't get the impression Invictus stretched reality to make this read happen. In that way it would reflect a more literal recounting of game events -- Invictus may have felt he couldn't sustain that initial shade with the toxicity forming (where town reads often abound) and just conceded the read. That'd be another point for DK, though I acknowledge this is a complex notion with numerous moving parts and presumptions.

Purple: I'm using this moment to represent the broader exchange between DK and Invictus about their Long Con reads. This may say more about LC than about DK, but I'll log it anyway as a moment of some kind of relative "conflict". If they're both mafia, one guy giving soft credit to [town] LC while the other says hell naw reflects indirect distance where the louder voice prevails (the one that is anti-LC). That's at least plausible, though I wouldn't say this is indicative of a team relationship.

Cyan: I'm interpreting this post to imply that DK and falcon were both viable wagons at this point? Someone please tell me if not. I see DK finished Day 1 with only one vote on them. Anyway, log this as a standard issue I'll chop that person instead of this person dichotomy. Whatever the wifom, it's compatible for teammates.

~~~

From DkKoba and Syn

Spoiler: show

Alison
DkKoba
Dyslexicon
falcon45ca
Fingersplints
Gavial
Hollowkatt
Long Con
Marmot
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Staypositivefriend
tonystarkprime


this is disappointingly less than i thought.

still a good start!

i dont include scum reads on my lists, but im more than happy to clarify who those are if anyone asks. particularly i dont like gavial, hollow, or koba right now and will vote among those 3.

if anyone thinks this is too many town reads, there's also a lot of town compared to scum! i like to solve via town reads and creating a poe to find scum. for the most part my town reads are pretty consistently good so it works well for me.

Vote me then. Lets see it.

Wagon me.

i mean they are purposefully trying to obfuscate it in an extremely anti town way that hurts solving - so if they're town they're playing like a jackass with no regard for anyone else trying to solve the game

nanook is? i dont really get that impression at all, he seems fine

is this how they normally play?

i barely paid attention to them in bread mafia bc they kept voting town lol

yeah he has a pretty chill playstyle but he tryhards when it counts in my experience

i dont mind him coasting as long as he picks it up when it's necessary, and i trust that he will

the issue is when he's scum he literally has to do very little to get near end game. And every phase counts otherwise why do any of us bother at all unless it's end game

yeah im also rereading my last game with him - he was super active.

like unless nanook is exactly an IC i dont think they are town here. but ive been disappointed by townies before acting this way so ((((((:

im willing to also wagon allison for info but i fear we dont have the time to get any information out of any push we make here now :/

really hating that the game started with role PMs sent out vs confirmations (unless im wrong and then pee pee poo poo)

there's 17 hours left?

personally i got to sleep soon and then i have to work until ~2 hours before deadline so there wont be any alignment telling pushes during that time for me. i expect it may be similar for others but idk maybe the aussies will figure something out!

I'm not sure I fully understand the falcon wagon. Is it Poe or did they do something?

I'll iso when I'm on a laptop

I thought their vote onto my wagon was an opportunistic scum vote. Thats my reasoning, and their rxn to being prodded abt it wasnt good either.

also idk if allison's sleep schedule has changed but i dont like that she has not posted recently at all - she did this coasting strategy when we were scum together last time - which may imply the current wagons are TvT with scum!allison

i missed this. what is the strategy

Its not a strategy moreso i saw firsthand that alison has been active in scumthread when townies were fightjng eachother when we were scum together in bread mafia. Tutuu and i actually warned her to turn off thread visibility bc she was visible online while being asked a question she wanted to dodge lmao

I also was guilty of this as scum that game bc i was happy watching town fight eachother while i got free townreads from ppl ignorant of my meta thinking i was towny.

i guess this is where i reveal why i townread longcon, and the simple reason is, they intiated a vote on me, and thats usually town indicative to me. i guess its not really a good reason but also i think their intentions were towny. they were a very easy mislim in my last game with them.

This reasoning doesn't hold up for me at all. And I am considering voting LC. He's not a town read in a sea of town or mild town reads.

yes this is it.

essentially town points are a thing. if youre in the thread and you do stuff that makes you towny then TOWN POINTS. obviously scum can do towny things too, but generally speaking if a bunch of people are looking towny and some people have been around and just haven't then i think it's best to remove from there as it helps with POE because eventually those towny points lead to people just being lock town and making the game easy to solve.

there is no real big case or anything, it's just the best move for POE and the read itself comes from POE.

Some players just have playstyles that are difficuly to get "town points" with, i.e. people who are LHF in games .

Its best to have a more critical eye and view intentions. I feel like i have a good grasp when ppl are like just scummy looking but actually town. I have made blunders but im well above rand with my reads regarding this so id like to at least be humored a proper case on a LHF slot rather than "scummy lol hasnt done anything "

Can someone tell me about Alison, what the expected norm is?

No clue but i tend to give benefit of the doubt to afks for at least 1 day phase bc IRL is a legit thing. I think there is alignment indicative stuff judging by the wolf game i played as partners with her that there was tactical afk which is a concern i mentioned earlier. If she wants to dialogue and perhaps give some direction where she thinks scum is that would be helpful in better discerning her alignment.

based on PoE, I think Alison, Falcon, and one of Invictus/Glavial/Spf/nanook are scum here

if i were to materialize the game universe as i see it with the people i have marked as town thus far

There's some bravado in that first taunt. I'll be conservative and say it could be teammate stuff even if there's no reason it must be. The rest of this is pretty soft dialogue wherein the two kind of play off of one another developing reads on various players, until DK drops Invictus into their POE pool. Within DK's posts alone, there's not much of any progression or read given on Invictus. At face value that's not ideal.

I looks like Syn joined the game after Invictus was outed, so I will move on from his posts for this purpose.

~~~

Conclusion

I had a good amount to say about this interaction from Invictus's side and very little to say about it from DK's side. The material that most speaks to me comes in the former half of the analysis, and it's generally to DK's credit. I'd be more comfortable if DK themself had done something with Invictus in this game. In that way it's a mixed bag, but gun to my head they're not teammates.

Honestly INVIC was more just sheeping Dizzy then actually caring about other things.
I think Koba could have easily been scummates with INVIC.

I’m tracking you tonight and I wouldn’t be against the Vigilante shooting Syn here.

[Gavial]

Interactions of Invictus and Nanook

From Invictus

Spoiler: show

Bluey hands down the best kids show on TV in a long ass time

I'm also partial to gumball

gumball is good but it's not bluey good. I do also really like Daniel Tiger (but that's like easy mode), Word Girl, and Little Einsteins.

Oh god the little Einsteins, I have nightmares

Ducktales also deserves honorable mention

pinky and the brain and animaniacs >>>

"It was just a joke bro" isn't a convincing defense to me.

I mean I had more then just that and your case on me is based on thinking it’s not a joke when clearly it was.

what are your thoughts on alison thus far? And dyslexicon?

No he’s Lock Town.
Get off them!

Nah I do what I want.

But to be real, Hollow hasn't said or done anything that makes me think they are any particular alignment. It's a shrug from me. Your read on Hollow is not mine, and I'm not convinced by the reasoning of it, which is also a subjective thing. But if Hollow is town (or not), I think I should be able to figure it out.

i dont like giving this away before it gets anywhere tho. why not wait and see?

Nanook, still posting about shows and not players?

what is our experience with them because based on my limited experience i dont think that would indicate much of anything.

Nanook, still posting about shows and not players?

What do you think this means?

hi

i shouldn't answer for them but i havent interacted with you yet so i will!


if someone chooses to continue fluffing instead of getting involved people find it suspicious as fluff is something scum can hide behind instead of having to engage in the actual content of the game

that said my understanding is nook is pretty experienced and most wolves are self-aware enough to know to get somewhat involved so they don't look bad whereas town are more apathetic to it. it looks similar to my experience with nook so i think it's kinda towny, but i have no idea what his scum game is like.

I'm also partial to gumball

gumball is good but it's not bluey good. I do also really like Daniel Tiger (but that's like easy mode), Word Girl, and Little Einsteins.

Oh god the little Einsteins, I have nightmares

Ducktales also deserves honorable mention

pinky and the brain and animaniacs >>>

"It was just a joke bro" isn't a convincing defense to me.

I mean I had more then just that and your case on me is based on thinking it’s not a joke when clearly it was.

what are your thoughts on alison thus far? And dyslexicon?

I mean yeah Animaniacs is great but it isn't on Disney Channel every morning

ROAD RUNNER then


even though it taught kids that no matter how hard you try, no matter how creative you are, no matter how much work you put into something you might never succeed and always continue to fail to someone that is hardly trying at all.

but it was also funny.

Alison
DkKoba
Dyslexicon
falcon45ca
Fingersplints
Gavial
Hollowkatt
Long Con
Marmot
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Staypositivefriend
tonystarkprime


this is disappointingly less than i thought.

still a good start!

i dont include scum reads on my lists, but im more than happy to clarify who those are if anyone asks. particularly i dont like gavial, hollow, or koba right now and will vote among those 3.

if anyone thinks this is too many town reads, there's also a lot of town compared to scum! i like to solve via town reads and creating a poe to find scum. for the most part my town reads are pretty consistently good so it works well for me.

no clue what nanook's alignment is yet

i mean they are purposefully trying to obfuscate it in an extremely anti town way that hurts solving - so if they're town they're playing like a jackass with no regard for anyone else trying to solve the game

nanook is? i dont really get that impression at all, he seems fine

is this how they normally play?

i barely paid attention to them in bread mafia bc they kept voting town lol

yeah he has a pretty chill playstyle but he tryhards when it counts in my experience

i dont mind him coasting as long as he picks it up when it's necessary, and i trust that he will

the issue is when he's scum he literally has to do very little to get near end game. And every phase counts otherwise why do any of us bother at all unless it's end game

nanook is? i dont really get that impression at all, he seems fine

is this how they normally play?

i barely paid attention to them in bread mafia bc they kept voting town lol

yeah he has a pretty chill playstyle but he tryhards when it counts in my experience

i dont mind him coasting as long as he picks it up when it's necessary, and i trust that he will

the issue is when he's scum he literally has to do very little to get near end game. And every phase counts otherwise why do any of us bother at all unless it's end game

yeah im also rereading my last game with him - he was super active.

like unless nanook is exactly an IC i dont think they are town here. but ive been disappointed by townies before acting this way so ((((((:

again he just did this in a game i was in on mafiacafe, with the exact same comments(to be fair, he started doing more on day 2, so we'll see!)

I want to leave my vote on dk cause it's clearly annoying him and his whole thing is mildly annoying to me

But he's probably town so

I'll move it eventually

why eventually. if you got nowhere else to be, LONG CON IS THE VOTE TO BE

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Mafia know who the prs are

Like they chose who got to be a power role? Wtf that's madness

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Mafia know who the prs are

Like they chose who got to be a power role? Wtf that's madness

Maybe read the setup lol

This is no Bueno

Orange: There's an early trend here wherein Invictus speaks on behalf of Nanook (or on behalf of Nanook via Long Con), usually to make low-level meta assertions about what he thinks Nanook is like. The assertions are generally valid; that is, Nanook is indeed one to be less concerned with assessing every player early in a game and doesn't care about being fluffy sometimes. In that light, this literal assessment would be innocuous as an overall read of "NAI",

Yellow: which brings me to this post. Nanook was one of Invictus's five blued-out town reads, and compared to the others players featured in that group that rationale provided previously is pretty light. It's essentially what I referenced in the previous point. So his name stands out here.

The remainder of this is generally soft material -- musing over Nanook's playstyle, halfway standing in his defense when DK was cranky, and setup chatter. None of that means much to me.

~~~

From Nanook

Spoiler: show

gumball is good but it's not bluey good. I do also really like Daniel Tiger (but that's like easy mode), Word Girl, and Little Einsteins.

Oh god the little Einsteins, I have nightmares

Ducktales also deserves honorable mention

pinky and the brain and animaniacs >>>

"It was just a joke bro" isn't a convincing defense to me.

I mean I had more then just that and your case on me is based on thinking it’s not a joke when clearly it was.

what are your thoughts on alison thus far? And dyslexicon?

I mean yeah Animaniacs is great but it isn't on Disney Channel every morning

ROAD RUNNER then


even though it taught kids that no matter how hard you try, no matter how creative you are, no matter how much work you put into something you might never succeed and always continue to fail to someone that is hardly trying at all.

but it was also funny.

Yeah in road runner i always felt bad for the coyote, dude is just out here trying to get a meal

Looney tunes in general are mostly pretty good, definitely a go to

Invictus, dizzy, hk, spf, falcon all town


I'm going back to hibernation now, more reads in 2-4 business days

i mean they are purposefully trying to obfuscate it in an extremely anti town way that hurts solving - so if they're town they're playing like a jackass with no regard for anyone else trying to solve the game

nanook is? i dont really get that impression at all, he seems fine

is this how they normally play?

i barely paid attention to them in bread mafia bc they kept voting town lol

yeah he has a pretty chill playstyle but he tryhards when it counts in my experience

i dont mind him coasting as long as he picks it up when it's necessary, and i trust that he will

the issue is when he's scum he literally has to do very little to get near end game. And every phase counts otherwise why do any of us bother at all unless it's end game

In practice this doesn't usually end up being true

I want to leave my vote on dk cause it's clearly annoying him and his whole thing is mildly annoying to me

But he's probably town so

I'll move it eventually

why eventually. if you got nowhere else to be, LONG CON IS THE VOTE TO BE

Cause its almost 3am

I will not be back again before deadline

Tsp gav hk dk spf dizzy falcon and invictus are my town


Leaving my vote on lc as an explicit falcon save, suggest finding someone else cause killing lc d1 is pretty meh

that's a weird kill and a shitty loss of a pt.

apologies for missing eod, my shot was at 3:00 pm instead of 3:30 so i had to rush there, but i would have probably gone after rusty too.

Wanna come back and tell us why you and your team decided on it then?

INVIC doesn’t say this after Vig shooting Finger lol.

To play devils advocate for a minute, yeah, that's exactly what a vig would say lol

There's not a lot new going on in this set of interactions. Nanook did town read Invictus. Okay. In classically Nanook style I don't know why and can only wonder -- perhaps he'll expand. I have very little to say about this stuff.

~~~

Conclusion

This is a dry interaction. From the Invictus side I have some questions. From the Nanook side I don't have much of anything. I have no reason to dissociate these two. Nanook can be Invictus's teammate.

I don’t know, Nanook’s reaction towards my reveal didn’t feel like scum with INVIC perspective.

[Gavial]

All y'all with town reads you've developed through the game, I suggest doing a trustfall. Find your bias.

Trustfall? Not trust our TR’s?
Man your desperate scum eh?

We must have both you and your partner in PoE for sure and your struggling and hoping that there is more wiggle room but jokes on you I’m making a towncore.


TOWNCORE
Gavial
SPF
Hollowcat
Dizzy
TonyStarkPrime
Long Con




Perfect Town Core!
This way there ain’t no way your gonna wiggle!

[Gavial]

@Long Con
Always go Syn first before Tony when I’m gone.

[Gavial]

Although I’m really hoping the Vigilante shoots them before it comes to that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

All y'all with town reads you've developed through the game, I suggest doing a trustfall. Find your bias.

Trustfall? Not trust our TR’s?
Man your desperate scum eh?

We must have both you and your partner in PoE for sure and your struggling and hoping that there is more wiggle room but jokes on you I’m making a towncore.


TOWNCORE
Gavial
SPF
Hollowcat
Dizzy
TonyStarkPrime
Long Con




Perfect Town Core!
This way there ain’t no way your gonna wiggle!

That's not what a trustfall means. It's an exercise where you list the best reason(s) you can think of to call every remaining player town. It's a good way to examine one's own biases, because they develop inevitably from any continual game exposure.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If your actually town maybe analysising Alison will help you understand your position better and maybe help you find a way to clear yourself.

My first priority must be with the players for whom I don't already have a role card, and that's just the way it's going to be. If I do have time remaining once I have been able to assess those that remain, then I will try to humor what you suggest. Don't expect some big wallpost like these others; that's a giant waste of my time. But I can humor it. While I cannot read Alison's mind, I know something of her view of Mafia and maybe I'll have explanations. I dunno.

[Dyslexicon]

@Gavial Where was Tony’s pr-cover that you speak of?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Marmot do you believe SPF's counter claim on Invictus was theater?

[Gavial]

@Gavial Where was Tony’s pr-cover that you speak of?

Post#24 and Post#987 - #988

[Gavial]

@Marmot do you believe SPF's counter claim on Invictus was theater?

Why don’t you ask them in scum chat?

BTW, what’s your Readslist?

[Gavial]

Like honestly JJJ you can ask marmot that question instead of actually analyzing marmot as he’s next in alphabetical order. Lol.