Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/
No you're right. LC is Spider-Man and was reading the map upside down.Golden wrote:I think LC has his land and water backwards. I voted East because the pyramid looks good.
Thought edit - unless I am missing a compass somewhere that LC saw.
It is almost always followed by Day 1 hereJackofhearts2005 wrote:By the way, is Day 0 followed by Day 1 or Night 0?
You win the medal of wrong-ness.Scotty wrote:Day 0 reads: JoH is bad and INH is his teammate.
Do I win?
This response is so forced I'm tempted to agree with him.insertnamehere wrote:You win the medal of wrong-ness.Scotty wrote:Day 0 reads: JoH is bad and INH is his teammate.
Do I win?
Get it?
It's because you're wrong.
Then you'd be booking a one-way ticket to Wrongville based on your own fallacious assumptions.a2thezebra wrote:This response is so forced I'm tempted to agree with him.insertnamehere wrote:You win the medal of wrong-ness.Scotty wrote:Day 0 reads: JoH is bad and INH is his teammate.
Do I win?
Get it?
It's because you're wrong.
a2thezebra wrote:But they can't be making that mistake, because both of them have acknowledged that Snow Dog not reading his rolecard is not in itself alignment-indicative. Both are not arguing for a lynch based on alignment but rather a policy lynch. If I felt they were making that mistake then I would give them more credit, but they clearly understand that what they're advocating for is the killing of a potential civ for reasons that aren't alignment-indicative and they still advocate for it anyway.insertnamehere wrote:I think they're making the mistake of confusing styles of gameplay that they find counter-intuitive and actual scumtells.a2thezebra wrote:But Jackofhearts and DDL don't seem to care that he might not necessarily be bad for it. Don't you think that makes them look bad?insertnamehere wrote:I agree that what Snow Dog's doing is idiotic and not helping the civilian cause in any way, shape, or form.
I just don't think he's necessarily bad for it. I remember an earlier game where I suspected (I think it was Wilgy? Eh, probably Wilgy.) for doing the same thing only for him to flip civ.
The only thing that any of this makes me feel is slightly better about Jackofhearts, who seems to have the same instinctual response as me to this type of (in my opinion) braggadocious (a word which here means "gutsy reaction based tactics") play.
I should know, I've made that exact mistake many a time as a civilian. In fact, that's my biggest difficulty as a townie, usually.
I am used to it, will never agree it is good game design though.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Get used to it, it's part of the site's charm.Soneji wrote:The only true mystery there needs to be in the core mafia game is who is mafia. Part of the unraveling of that mystery is seeing who flips mafia to make associative reads, default janitoring hinders that to an extent. I also can't get behind a system where there is no info dumping alongside default janitoring, the balance of no info dumping is still being able to see the cop/tracker/watcher flip then work out if their strong reads were based on scumhunting or ability info.Long Con wrote:I think it's weird that there are places that tell the role of the nightkilled player by default. Everything I have seen, it's part of the essential mystery of the game to have nightkills be unknown.
Janitoring should be tied to a role and/or be a limited resource.
I think the info-dumping thing is particulary refreshing, it forces townies out of their ability-only confort zone.
He could be lying, but we have zero evidence of that. And past games is not evidence. This is mafia, everything can happen.a2thezebra wrote:In fact not only is it a baseless assumption but if we look at previous claims of players not reading their rolecard in past games, they are usually lying. Their reasons for doing so vary wildly but not all of them are mafia-motivated and on some level DDL and Jackofhearts must recognize this.
Damn...DDL doesn't seem to be advocating for lynching Snow Doggie Dog D1, at least right now, and I'd chalk JoH up to culture clash.a2thezebra wrote:Why didn't you respond to this?a2thezebra wrote:But they can't be making that mistake, because both of them have acknowledged that Snow Dog not reading his rolecard is not in itself alignment-indicative. Both are not arguing for a lynch based on alignment but rather a policy lynch. If I felt they were making that mistake then I would give them more credit, but they clearly understand that what they're advocating for is the killing of a potential civ for reasons that aren't alignment-indicative and they still advocate for it anyway.insertnamehere wrote:I think they're making the mistake of confusing styles of gameplay that they find counter-intuitive and actual scumtells.a2thezebra wrote:But Jackofhearts and DDL don't seem to care that he might not necessarily be bad for it. Don't you think that makes them look bad?insertnamehere wrote:I agree that what Snow Dog's doing is idiotic and not helping the civilian cause in any way, shape, or form.
I just don't think he's necessarily bad for it. I remember an earlier game where I suspected (I think it was Wilgy? Eh, probably Wilgy.) for doing the same thing only for him to flip civ.
The only thing that any of this makes me feel is slightly better about Jackofhearts, who seems to have the same instinctual response as me to this type of (in my opinion) braggadocious (a word which here means "gutsy reaction based tactics") play.
I should know, I've made that exact mistake many a time as a civilian. In fact, that's my biggest difficulty as a townie, usually.
a2thezebra wrote:Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.
In this game, I will defend Snow Dog to the death.
*shines bright desk light in Snow Dog's face*Snow Dog wrote:First of all..
a2thezebra wrote:Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.
In this game, I will defend Snow Dog to the death.
Second....Wow! My claim to have not read my role certainly has stirred up things around here. My little homage to Dr Wilgey's claim in Monley Island has sparked some lively debate. So what happens now? If I claim I was joking can you believe that? Am I forever tarnished?
DrWilgy did the exact same thing in Monkey Island, so I'm taking Snow Dog's post as a jokey reference to that. On no planet is there a person who's seriously played a game where they haven't checked their role. If they're bad then it's a massive kick in the teeth to his/her teammates. Same to any alignment, really.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I could get behind splitting the difference with alignment only flips. While no janitoring is more comfortable to me, I'm big on trying new things.
This seems like a terrible idea.Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.
If you're being truthful and you're town, this only hurts your performance.
If you're being truthful and you're scum, maybe you don't accidentally give yourself away with a scumtell.
You could also be scum and lying, using this as a shield. "Anything scummy I say can't actually be scummy cause I don't even know my alignment."
I'm with the marmot. You seem like a great first lynch.
Who do you go to if you get into a heated argument over who's the better MoD?Sloonei wrote:Hello folks! I am indeed the other member of your RYM MoD Squad for this game. Ditto everything Jay just said. This is a great looking crew and I look forward to watching the game unfold.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang,
Sloonei and I are going to cooperatively serve as MoDs in this game. If you have any concerns at all or become frustrated, angry, or otherwise miffed, please shoot one of us or both of us a PM and we'll talk it through with you. I'm sure it'll be a great game and I look forward to following along.
*blinking nervously into light, perspiration beading on forehead*insertnamehere wrote:*shines bright desk light in Snow Dog's face*Snow Dog wrote:First of all..
a2thezebra wrote:Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.
In this game, I will defend Snow Dog to the death.
Second....Wow! My claim to have not read my role certainly has stirred up things around here. My little homage to Dr Wilgey's claim in Monley Island has sparked some lively debate. So what happens now? If I claim I was joking can you believe that? Am I forever tarnished?
Have you read your role PM, and are you fully aware of the implications of its contents, Mister Dog?
Me too.a2thezebra wrote:I strongly disapprove of this post with all due respect.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I'm okay with policy lynching Snow Dog.
Or rather, policy vigging him. A player who doesn't know their alignment is a waste of a lynch.
You didn't play Monkey Island, so I can barely understand why you're taking Snow Dog seriously.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Snow Dog has no alignment. All attempts to read him are pointless. There is no way to call him a civ or bad, because he has no winning condition. He has no intention to win for either side. He is not playing the game.
Why should he be kept alive?
Every lynch is a policy lynch. We take down people who don't contribute to town's cause, for reasons we decide at the time. This guy is the least contributive a player can possibly be.
Ninja'ing, is what the Syndicate calls it apparently.Snow Dog wrote:What is vigging?
This guy is gonna give Scotty a run for his money in the metaphor department.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:You're watching a guy throw pretzels in the water and a) assuming he's fishing and b) assuming that throwing pretzels in the water will lead to catching fish.
I'm watching the same guy and saying he's not contributing to solving our food shortage.
yhSnow Dog wrote:First of all..
a2thezebra wrote:Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.
In this game, I will defend Snow Dog to the death.
Second....Wow! My claim to have not read my role certainly has stirred up things around here. My little homage to Dr Wilgey's claim in Monley Island has sparked some lively debate. So what happens now? If I claim I was joking can you believe that? Am I forever tarnished?
Neither way ever mattered to me.Snow Dog wrote:First of all..
a2thezebra wrote:Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.
In this game, I will defend Snow Dog to the death.
Second....Wow! My claim to have not read my role certainly has stirred up things around here. My little homage to Dr Wilgey's claim in Monley Island has sparked some lively debate. So what happens now? If I claim I was joking can you believe that? Am I forever tarnished?
Nah, my job security is airtight. He can do the metaphors. I'll handle the shitty similes. (And the alliterations, aight?) i know that was assonance, you assQuin wrote:This guy is gonna give Scotty a run for his money in the metaphor department.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:You're watching a guy throw pretzels in the water and a) assuming he's fishing and b) assuming that throwing pretzels in the water will lead to catching fish.
I'm watching the same guy and saying he's not contributing to solving our food shortage.
You must be new here.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I could get behind splitting the difference with alignment only flips. While no janitoring is more comfortable to me, I'm big on trying new things.
This seems like a terrible idea.Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.
If you're being truthful and you're town, this only hurts your performance.
If you're being truthful and you're scum, maybe you don't accidentally give yourself away with a scumtell.
You could also be scum and lying, using this as a shield. "Anything scummy I say can't actually be scummy cause I don't even know my alignment."
I'm with the marmot. You seem like a great first lynch.
Oh boy. I like this fellow.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Saying complete bullshit that makes yourself look bad just to get a reaction? There are better ways to get reactions that don't involve making yourself look bad.
Yeah, the fact that he used a metaphor is blowing my mind.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I almost want to put that in my sig.
Hey guess what? I read my role as soon as I received it.insertnamehere wrote:I agree that what Snow Dog's doing is idiotic and not helping the civilian cause in any way, shape, or form.
We fight to the death.Quin wrote:Who do you go to if you get into a heated argument over who's the better MoD?Sloonei wrote:Hello folks! I am indeed the other member of your RYM MoD Squad for this game. Ditto everything Jay just said. This is a great looking crew and I look forward to watching the game unfold.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang,
Sloonei and I are going to cooperatively serve as MoDs in this game. If you have any concerns at all or become frustrated, angry, or otherwise miffed, please shoot one of us or both of us a PM and we'll talk it through with you. I'm sure it'll be a great game and I look forward to following along.
The enlarged part is untrue. Read the first post in this thread.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Town's cause is to lynch scum.a2thezebra wrote:Every statement within this post is false. For one, Snow Dog does have an alignment. Whether he knows what alignment that is is up for debate, but he does have one. All attempts to read him are pointless only operating under the assumption that he is playing without reading his alignment, which even then doesn't make it pointless to read him because not knowing your alignment doesn't automatically dictate whether or not you are going to attempt to genuinely contribute to the town cause. Not reading one's role card is a bold unorthodox move, if we are willing to acknowledge that why are we unwilling to consider bold unorthodox explanations for this move? Saying it's a bad move has no bearing on whether or not it is alignment-indicative. He does have a winning condition. We don't know what his intentions are. He most certainly is playing the game.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Snow Dog has no alignment. All attempts to read him are pointless. There is no way to call him a civ or bad, because he has no winning condition. He has no intention to win for either side. He is not playing the game.
Why should he be kept alive?
Every lynch is a policy lynch. We take down people who don't contribute to town's cause, for reasons we decide at the time. This guy is the least contributive a player can possibly be.
He should be kept alive so we can figure out his intentions and decipher if he in fact has read his role card, and what his alignment is.
Snow Dog's decision to not read his role card, or at least his claim that he hasn't, has sparked more discussion than anything else so far in the game. And yet you have the nerve to say that he is the least contributive a player can possibly be? Either you are being disingenuous or downright stubborn. No, not every lynch is a policy lynch and no, we do not take down people who don't contribute to town's cause. We take down people who do contribute to the anti-town cause. The difference is monumental and you seem to be choosing to pretend that it isn't. My eye is on MM, Jackofhearts, and you, but especially you after this post.
Scum's cause is not to lynch scum.
Town is active. Scum is passive. Scum plays by stalling and not actually doing things. If someone is not trying to scum, they are more likely to be bad. Because that's the bread and butter of bads.
I concede that Snow Dog could help civs, if say, he decide to scum baddies despite potentially betraying his own team. I still argue that he is 100% unreadable, though. Because there is zero connection between his alignment and his posts. And if he is 100% unreadable, how are we supposed to trust him. How can we make the call to leave him alive. It's basically lottery.
We should either investigate him and hope someone manages to hint through the role reveal ban, or vig him. But leaving him alive and unchecked is leaving the game to pure chance. And I don't like games of pure chance.
What point is that?Dragon D. Luffy wrote:That is not the problem. The problem is being okay with the idea that one player is allowed to go through all game without having his alignment read.a2thezebra wrote:But Jackofhearts and DDL don't seem to care that he might not necessarily be bad for it. Don't you think that makes them look bad?insertnamehere wrote:I agree that what Snow Dog's doing is idiotic and not helping the civilian cause in any way, shape, or form.
I just don't think he's necessarily bad for it. I remember an earlier game where I suspected (I think it was Wilgy? Eh, probably Wilgy.) for doing the same thing only for him to flip civ.
The only thing that any of this makes me feel is slightly better about Jackofhearts, who seems to have the same instinctual response as me to this type of (in my opinion) braggadocious (a word which here means "gutsy reaction based tactics") play.
What do we do to him once we get to a point where we have to decide if he is civ or bad?
I find this all to be reasonable.Quin wrote:DrWilgy did the exact same thing in Monkey Island, so I'm taking Snow Dog's post as a jokey reference to that. On no planet is there a person who's seriously played a game where they haven't checked their role. If they're bad then it's a massive kick in the teeth to his/her teammates. Same to any alignment, really.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I could get behind splitting the difference with alignment only flips. While no janitoring is more comfortable to me, I'm big on trying new things.
This seems like a terrible idea.Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.
If you're being truthful and you're town, this only hurts your performance.
If you're being truthful and you're scum, maybe you don't accidentally give yourself away with a scumtell.
You could also be scum and lying, using this as a shield. "Anything scummy I say can't actually be scummy cause I don't even know my alignment."
I'm with the marmot. You seem like a great first lynch.
Deal.Scotty wrote:Nah, my job security is airtight. He can do the metaphors. I'll handle the shitty similes. (And the alliterations, aight?) i know that was assonance, you assQuin wrote:This guy is gonna give Scotty a run for his money in the metaphor department.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:You're watching a guy throw pretzels in the water and a) assuming he's fishing and b) assuming that throwing pretzels in the water will lead to catching fish.
I'm watching the same guy and saying he's not contributing to solving our food shortage.
I think zebra should try it out for herself next time and see where that gets her. I just think it's pointless and hurts your team in a whole lot of ways.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I find this all to be reasonable.Quin wrote:DrWilgy did the exact same thing in Monkey Island, so I'm taking Snow Dog's post as a jokey reference to that. On no planet is there a person who's seriously played a game where they haven't checked their role. If they're bad then it's a massive kick in the teeth to his/her teammates. Same to any alignment, really.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I could get behind splitting the difference with alignment only flips. While no janitoring is more comfortable to me, I'm big on trying new things.
This seems like a terrible idea.Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.
If you're being truthful and you're town, this only hurts your performance.
If you're being truthful and you're scum, maybe you don't accidentally give yourself away with a scumtell.
You could also be scum and lying, using this as a shield. "Anything scummy I say can't actually be scummy cause I don't even know my alignment."
I'm with the marmot. You seem like a great first lynch.
However, your assertion that nobody would ever do this for realzies stands in stark contrast to Zebra claiming that not reading one's role pm can be a useful for cutting off pressure and causing a townie to not choke, an assertion I find to be quite silly.
Putting SD back on mostly neutral terms unless Zebra ends up flipping mafia.
Now, maybe Zebra has been playing mafia in Opposite Land where lying as a townie to the point where several players consider a policy lynch on you is good strategy but lying as scum is simply not done. I'll reserve full judgement of if this is scummy behavior or just really jarring culture clash until later. It's only D0 after all.
Generally, though, when I see what I consider to be an illogical defense of another player, I assume reasons other than pure logic are at work.
Deal.Scotty wrote:Nah, my job security is airtight. He can do the metaphors. I'll handle the shitty similes. (And the alliterations, aight?) i know that was assonance, you assQuin wrote:This guy is gonna give Scotty a run for his money in the metaphor department.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:You're watching a guy throw pretzels in the water and a) assuming he's fishing and b) assuming that throwing pretzels in the water will lead to catching fish.
I'm watching the same guy and saying he's not contributing to solving our food shortage.
@Epi
Hi, there.
I wouldn't call it culture clash. I'm part of their culture and I agree with your assessment.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Now, maybe Zebra has been playing mafia in Opposite Land where lying as a townie to the point where several players consider a policy lynch on you is good strategy but lying as scum is simply not done. I'll reserve full judgement of if this is scummy behavior or just really jarring culture clash until later. It's only D0 after all.
If you're telling the truth, it says nothing about your alignment because you don't know it yet.Snow Dog wrote:First of all..
a2thezebra wrote:Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.
In this game, I will defend Snow Dog to the death.
Second....Wow! My claim to have not read my role certainly has stirred up things around here. My little homage to Dr Wilgey's claim in Monley Island has sparked some lively debate. So what happens now? If I claim I was joking can you believe that? Am I forever tarnished?
Yes Epi, and we're all very proud of you.Epignosis wrote:Hey guess what? I read my role as soon as I received it.insertnamehere wrote:I agree that what Snow Dog's doing is idiotic and not helping the civilian cause in any way, shape, or form.
Am I helping the civilian cause yet?
Pretty sure you can practically count the number of posts about my bad directions on one hand, so that's not really a true assessment of the game.Epignosis wrote:Four pages all about Snow Dog and Long Con's bad directions.
Snow Dog must feel special.
I won't be voting him Day 1.
Would you categorize soup as a drink or a food?Epignosis wrote:I want everybody's opinion on soup.
I can't point to anything that has been discussed besides those two things.Long Con wrote:Pretty sure you can practically count the number of posts about my bad directions on one hand, so that's not really a true assessment of the game.Epignosis wrote:Four pages all about Snow Dog and Long Con's bad directions.
Snow Dog must feel special.
I won't be voting him Day 1.
