2016 Game of Champions - Beach [Night 2]

[Soneji]

Meta is a crutch as it means you can't catch said person in any kind of slip or make a convincing case that their behavior is scummy on its own. It is a tool that can be used to scumhunt but I'd never rely on it.

You would agree that it was successful in this instance though, yes?

Since Mac flipped mafia then yes. You didn't see me defend Mac did you? That was due to me recognizing it as a tool those people felt like using and not being familiar enough with Mac, I had no basis to agree or disagree with their assessments on his meta.

[thellama73]

Meta is a crutch as it means you can't catch said person in any kind of slip or make a convincing case that their behavior is scummy on its own. It is a tool that can be used to scumhunt but I'd never rely on it.

You would agree that it was successful in this instance though, yes?

Since Mac flipped mafia then yes. You didn't see me defend Mac did you? That was due to me recognizing it as a tool those people felt like using and not being familiar enough with Mac, I had no basis to agree or disagree with their assessments on his meta.

I didn't see you mention Mac at all, and I didn't see him mention you. Given the amount of discussion around him, that alone has me worried.

[thellama73]

I'm putting my vote on Soneji for now. I might move it later, but I remain unconvinced by his posts.

[Akemi Homura]

Why did we all vote for Mr. Coltrane?

[Scotty]

Why did we all vote for Mr. Coltrane?

Why not?

I could just as easily vote for Boomslang. Neither has come in to offer a differing reason otherwise.

I'm considering Soneji as an option too.

[Soneji]

Meta is a crutch as it means you can't catch said person in any kind of slip or make a convincing case that their behavior is scummy on its own. It is a tool that can be used to scumhunt but I'd never rely on it.

You would agree that it was successful in this instance though, yes?

Since Mac flipped mafia then yes. You didn't see me defend Mac did you? That was due to me recognizing it as a tool those people felt like using and not being familiar enough with Mac, I had no basis to agree or disagree with their assessments on his meta.

I didn't see you mention Mac at all, and I didn't see him mention you. Given the amount of discussion around him, that alone has me worried.

Why would I talk about a case based on meta, when I don't have familiarity with said persons meta? I only mention those that stand out to me personally and respond sometimes to general mafia discussion, nothing Mac said pinged me enough to talk about.

[Scotty]

I see Golden has moved on to Boomslang. I'll follow.

boom

[Scotty]

Meta is a crutch as it means you can't catch said person in any kind of slip or make a convincing case that their behavior is scummy on its own. It is a tool that can be used to scumhunt but I'd never rely on it.

You would agree that it was successful in this instance though, yes?

Since Mac flipped mafia then yes. You didn't see me defend Mac did you? That was due to me recognizing it as a tool those people felt like using and not being familiar enough with Mac, I had no basis to agree or disagree with their assessments on his meta.

I didn't see you mention Mac at all, and I didn't see him mention you. Given the amount of discussion around him, that alone has me worried.

Why would I talk about a case based on meta, when I don't have familiarity with said persons meta? I only mention those that stand out to me personally and respond sometimes to general mafia discussion, nothing Mac said pinged me enough to talk about.

But you made a comment that was basically determine that meta was not reliable. That very well may be the case, but it also came when Mac was taking heat.

[Scotty]

I changed my mind. I think Professor Farnsworth will get lynched in the hatch.

@MM: I think donna's sock identity is super obvious. I have no idea with John coltrane, mostly because I don't remember them even playing.

[juliets]

Meta is a crutch as it means you can't catch said person in any kind of slip or make a convincing case that their behavior is scummy on its own. It is a tool that can be used to scumhunt but I'd never rely on it.

You would agree that it was successful in this instance though, yes?

Since Mac flipped mafia then yes. You didn't see me defend Mac did you? That was due to me recognizing it as a tool those people felt like using and not being familiar enough with Mac, I had no basis to agree or disagree with their assessments on his meta.

I didn't see you mention Mac at all, and I didn't see him mention you. Given the amount of discussion around him, that alone has me worried.

Why would I talk about a case based on meta, when I don't have familiarity with said persons meta? I only mention those that stand out to me personally and respond sometimes to general mafia discussion, nothing Mac said pinged me enough to talk about.

I wasn't familiar with Mac's meta either until I looked at games he had played. Did you look at any of the meta evidence we had uncovered? If not why not?

I'll join you Scotty on a Booms vote.

[juliets]

Well, I guess Scotty didn't change his vote after all.

[Akemi Homura]

Why did we all vote for Mr. Coltrane?

Why not?

I could just as easily vote for Boomslang. Neither has come in to offer a differing reason otherwise.

I'm considering Soneji as an option too.

It's funny- I think you are the Process. You seem like you're trying really hard, which can be a perceived civ thing to do, but I feel like you're playing all angles.

[Scotty]

Well, I guess Scotty didn't change his vote after all.

Oops. Fixed.

Why did we all vote for Mr. Coltrane?

Why not?

I could just as easily vote for Boomslang. Neither has come in to offer a differing reason otherwise.

I'm considering Soneji as an option too.

It's funny- I think you are the Process. You seem like you're trying really hard, which can be a perceived civ thing to do, but I feel like you're playing all angles.

Hardly constitutes "all angles"
Is someone a little upset I called them out for being the Process?

[Marmot]

I'm voting for the Process, I mean Scotty.

[Scotty]

I'm voting for the Process, I mean Scotty.

U wat m8

[Marmot]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

[thellama73]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

I'd probably still go with Sig, but I'm increasingly comfortable with my vote for Soneji.

[Scotty]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

Quin.

And why is following around Golden to a vote that I previously said I would entertain a bad idea, MM?

[Akemi Homura]

Well, I guess Scotty didn't change his vote after all.

Oops. Fixed.

Why did we all vote for Mr. Coltrane?

Why not?

I could just as easily vote for Boomslang. Neither has come in to offer a differing reason otherwise.

I'm considering Soneji as an option too.

It's funny- I think you are the Process. You seem like you're trying really hard, which can be a perceived civ thing to do, but I feel like you're playing all angles.

Hardly constitutes "all angles"
Is someone a little upset I called them out for being the Process?

You don't seem to have any convictions, is what I mean. You'll vote for John Coltrane because "why not?". You'll vote for Boomslang presumably for the same "reason". Or you'll vote for Soneji. At least a case exists there.

[Scotty]

Well, I guess Scotty didn't change his vote after all.

Oops. Fixed.

Why did we all vote for Mr. Coltrane?

Why not?

I could just as easily vote for Boomslang. Neither has come in to offer a differing reason otherwise.

I'm considering Soneji as an option too.

It's funny- I think you are the Process. You seem like you're trying really hard, which can be a perceived civ thing to do, but I feel like you're playing all angles.

Hardly constitutes "all angles"
Is someone a little upset I called them out for being the Process?

You don't seem to have any convictions, is what I mean. You'll vote for John Coltrane because "why not?". You'll vote for Boomslang presumably for the same "reason". Or you'll vote for Soneji. At least a case exists there.

I already posed the question: why not? Why not vote for them? I don't like their votes and I don't remember them in day 1. They haven't come to defend themselves. Yes, a case seems to exist here via llama on Soneji, but I'm not completely convinced yet.

Will you be remaining on John coltrane all day phase?

[juliets]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

Based on the information I had coming into the day I'd vote sig but I was also uncomfortable with Quin and Boomslang so a lot would depend on what they would have to say. I really would like to understand Quin's response to Scotty, for example. Also, Soneji is making me a little uncomfortable. I'll see how he answers my question.

Marmot, why do you ask since we don't have that choice?

[Akemi Homura]

I don't know what I'll be doing with my vote. It's not going to be on you, if that helps.

[Akemi Homura]

I don't know what I'll be doing with my vote. It's not going to be on you, if that helps.

@ scotty

[Akemi Homura]

Why is Bea excluded from the "why not?" conversation?

[Scotty]

Why is Bea excluded from the "why not?" conversation?

I guess she could be. I seem to remember her slurring around the room on Day 1 in bursts, and don't really have a read on her more than she's had a rough/busy week so far while also being sick. I don't view her as a a strong pull in any direction yet, but I do remember her at least trying.

But that's all hearsay because there's no thread to back it up.
My memory is like butter. If you put it in your car, you won't remember what day is it

[S~V~S]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

Anyone pushing discussion of the other thread as opposed to this one.

*TempvoteMarmot*

Looks like we have some nice discussion. Can someone explain the process to me like I am a 6 year old?

[Akemi Homura]

Llama: what, if anything, can you tell me about Donna's interactions with Macdougall?

[Akemi Homura]

Oh Donna's not on the poll. Bummer.

[S~V~S]

I so want to hear from her! She made some fairly beefy posts towards the end of the night. I don't remember agreeing with her, but I do recall thinking, "Nice content". Same for Coltranes big post in the night.

[Akemi Homura]

I so want to hear from her! She made some fairly beefy posts towards the end of the night. I don't remember agreeing with her, but I do recall thinking, "Nice content". Same for Coltranes big post in the night.

You classified your vote on Metalmarsh as temporary. I assume you intend to change it. Why, and who might you change it to?

[Marmot]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

I'd probably still go with Sig, but I'm increasingly comfortable with my vote for Soneji.

Does it make a difference to you that Soneji voted for sig on Day 1?

Linki: I'll read you later.

[S~V~S]

I so want to hear from her! She made some fairly beefy posts towards the end of the night. I don't remember agreeing with her, but I do recall thinking, "Nice content". Same for Coltranes big post in the night.

You classified your vote on Metalmarsh as temporary. I assume you intend to change it. Why, and who might you change it to?

Not sure yet. It might stay there. Him and Made both pinged me with their wanting to focus on the other thread. I did a similar thing in a game with split threads like this when I was bad. Bea has also gotten my attention.

The majority of the people in this thread were people I had civ or null reads on. So I am pleased that we got split this way, it gives us time to develop reads on each other.

I think I know who you are, based on something you said in the other thread. You aren't a girl, are you?

[Akemi Homura]

I so want to hear from her! She made some fairly beefy posts towards the end of the night. I don't remember agreeing with her, but I do recall thinking, "Nice content". Same for Coltranes big post in the night.

You classified your vote on Metalmarsh as temporary. I assume you intend to change it. Why, and who might you change it to?

Not sure yet. It might stay there. Him and Made both pinged me with their wanting to focus on the other thread. I did a similar thing in a game with split threads like this when I was bad. Bea has also gotten my attention.

The majority of the people in this thread were people I had civ or null reads on. So I am pleased that we got split this way, it gives us time to develop reads on each other.

I think I know who you are, based on something you said in the other thread. You aren't a girl, are you?

I'm the Prisoner.
What has Bea done to ger your attention?

[Marmot]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

Anyone pushing discussion of the other thread as opposed to this one.

*TempvoteMarmot*

Looks like we have some nice discussion. Can someone explain the process to me like I am a 6 year old?

Aw thanks. Remember that one time in the 2014 GoC when I tempvoted you and was lynched for it?

I notice some folks growing wary of Soneji. I know a lot of people are suspicious of sig (myself included). The question I asked llama is one I have for everyone in that same category.

[Made]

Replying as I go. Ask questions/prod me on stuff while i'm here please!

Spoiler: show

Meta is a crutch as it means you can't catch said person in any kind of slip or make a convincing case that their behavior is scummy on its own. It is a tool that can be used to scumhunt but I'd never rely on it.

You would agree that it was successful in this instance though, yes?

Since Mac flipped mafia then yes. You didn't see me defend Mac did you? That was due to me recognizing it as a tool those people felt like using and not being familiar enough with Mac, I had no basis to agree or disagree with their assessments on his meta.

I didn't see you mention Mac at all, and I didn't see him mention you. Given the amount of discussion around him, that alone has me worried.

Why would I talk about a case based on meta, when I don't have familiarity with said persons meta? I only mention those that stand out to me personally and respond sometimes to general mafia discussion, nothing Mac said pinged me enough to talk about.

Well there were other cases on Mac. My own didn't stem from the meta discussion. Not to diminish the role of meta determining alignment of Mac, there was other things there.

[S~V~S]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

I'd probably still go with Sig, but I'm increasingly comfortable with my vote for Soneji.

Does it make a difference to you that Soneji voted for sig on Day 1?

Linki: I'll read you later.

Easy distancing perhaps? People voting for each other in a thread with changeable votes doesn't mean much for gauging connection.

Linki @Prisoner. OK.

I have said what she did, but am happy to do so again. In the other thread, she made one big post where she said she felt Made and Wilgy were getting a bad rap. She did this without pointing fingers at anyone who might be giving them a bad rap, though. Then she wrote several sentences saying nothing, and said that she felt OK about me, LC and (???). "Same old same old" kind of thing. No negative opinions, or even remotely critical, about anyone. Bea and I have a long history. I want to know where she is at. So far I am not sure she is at the same place I am. I am not sure she has expressed even one remote suspect. Bea is always polite, but Bea does not shrink from speaking her mind, even if it is in a very passive way.

Bea is a huge question mark for me.

[Akemi Homura]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

I'd probably still go with Sig, but I'm increasingly comfortable with my vote for Soneji.

Does it make a difference to you that Soneji voted for sig on Day 1?

Linki: I'll read you later.

Easy distancing perhaps? People voting for each other in a thread with changeable votes doesn't mean much for gauging connection.

Linki @Prisoner. OK.

I have said what she did, but am happy to do so again. In the other thread, she made one big post where she said she felt Made and Wilgy were getting a bad rap. She did this without pointing fingers at anyone who might be giving them a bad rap, though. Then she wrote several sentences saying nothing, and said that she felt OK about me, LC and (???). "Same old same old" kind of thing. No negative opinions, or even remotely critical, about anyone. Bea and I have a long history. I want to know where she is at. So far I am not sure she is at the same place I am. I am not sure she has expressed even one remote suspect. Bea is always polite, but Bea does not shrink from speaking her mind, even if it is in a very passive way.

Bea is a huge question mark for me.

I like this. Let's hear from Bea.

[S~V~S]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

Anyone pushing discussion of the other thread as opposed to this one.

*TempvoteMarmot*

Looks like we have some nice discussion. Can someone explain the process to me like I am a 6 year old?

Aw thanks. Remember that one time in the 2014 GoC when I tempvoted you and was lynched for it?

I notice some folks growing wary of Soneji. I know a lot of people are suspicious of sig (myself included). The question I asked llama is one I have for everyone in that same category.

I understood his point about meta being a crutch, I often feel that way. When he said it, I did not get the impression it was a defense. If so it was a weak one. In MP/SD's Host Wars game, I was the only person to read him as bad when he was bad, and not getting the same feel here, but that game had a lot more interaction, so

And who do you suspect in THIS thread? If you said, and I missed it, sorry. My read back has beenspotty since I am mainly reading current posts.

[Made]

Ok, so I do not know SVS's meta but she's reading really lowkey to me. Like from the games i remember she's been very much at the forefront of baddie hunting and theory making and stuff and things, but day 1 and so far during beach day, she seems to be throwing ideas in thread with relatively isolated back and forth. I didn't look at her day 1 post ISO but she did have the same number of post as me during day 1 (31) which i felt i was personally lacking relative to my typical standard. Given it's probably has been like 2 years since I've played with her, I wanted to point this out.

anyhow still catching up ama.

Linki- nvm lol... I agree SVS, I'll actually place my vote on bea for now.

[juliets]

My read on bea this morning was null - nothing either way but S~V~S brings up a good point about her not having anything critical to say. I'll be interested to see what she says when she comes in next.

Marmot, Soneji's vote really doesn't mean much to me because of the possibility of distancing.

S~V~S what game was it where you picked out Soneji as bad? I might take a look at it.

[juliets]

Never mind S~V~S you said the game was Host Wars. Sorry.

[Made]

And re: Soneji, I feel like if Soneji were bad, he wouldn't of made the argument he made when he made it. Like if i remember correctly, Soneji commented on Mac like late in day 1 after the giant vote switch happened, where a lynch of Mac seemed inevitable. It'd be a damn ballzy move to take such a strong stance on a teammate at that point imo. Bit of Wifom, yes, but I regardless feel like the average baddie wouldn't do this.

That said, i did also get a gut read on Soneji as a bit scummy when he originally made the comment, as an attempt of a baddie trying to gain brownie points off a civvie lynch. I feel better about that now.

[S~V~S]

Ok, so I do not know SVS's meta but she's reading really lowkey to me. Like from the games i remember she's been very much at the forefront of baddie hunting and theory making and stuff and things, but day 1 and so far during beach day, she seems to be throwing ideas in thread with relatively isolated back and forth. I didn't look at her day 1 post ISO but she did have the same number of post as me during day 1 (31) which i felt i was personally lacking relative to my typical standard. Given it's probably has been like 2 years since I've played with her, I wanted to point this out.

anyhow still catching up ama.

Linki- nvm lol... I agree SVS, I'll actually place my vote on bea for now.

How do we access Day One post count?

Also I have been on break for months and am still somewhat ambivalent about Mafia, lol. so there is that re post count.

[S~V~S]

Yeah I just went and looked and I can't see Day One post count.

[Made]

How do we access Day One post count?

Also I have been on break for months and am still somewhat ambivalent about Mafia, lol. so there is that re post count.

I don't, I just checked it right after the lynch and noticed we had similar count with a giant drop off after us and Dh/Priz already at like 100 each

[Made]

I want to say this check was after timmer showed up because he was at like 22 when i checked, the next after both of us. Hearsay, yeah, but i'm pretty sure i'm right. Llama and juliet were some where between myself/you and Dh/Priz

[S~V~S]

Since my vote is on Metalmarsh, I plan to ask his opinion on pretty much everything

Marmot, are you totally impressed by Mades memory?

[Made]

Since my vote is on Metalmarsh, I plan to ask his opinion on pretty much everything

Marmot, are you totally impressed by Mades memory?

For context I'm a math major. Numbers are fun and stuff. Sadly, I do not remember how many post MM had, but pretty sure it was above both of us....maybe next to Llamas? don't quote me on that one tho. Pretty sure Quin was above me. And the list was alphabetical for ties so I listed me over you even tho we had the same post number

[S~V~S]

What else do you remember that might be helpful? About posts and opinions of people in this thread?

[Made]

What else do you remember that might be helpful? About posts and opinions of people in this thread?

[warning subjectivity incoming]
TImmer went in and no one really vocally disagreed...uhh....Wilgy was kinda backing himself into a corner and I think tried to implicate me in said corner. Quin had strong opinions on someone. Sig was posting more, but I can't really recall the content.
OH But i do remember another number that entertained me. Upon death, Mac had 33 post, more than myself, Svs, sig, bea donna, Prof, etcetc.