The Syndicate

JJJ:
I had dinner and we are now getting ready for family time. I'm sorry I don't have time to elaborate on JJJ and catch up in the thread. I think I have stated enough about him in my previous posts though.

3.13

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Some things to be attentive to:

We started with 14 players and are now down 4, all town. I think that means that the most likely current ratio is 6 townies to 3 baddies to 1 independent. Those aren't great numbers, even considering we're about to eliminate a baddie. That could be one mislynch short of LyLo, no matter when the mislynch takes place. Scotty's role could also add complications if he is anti-town (a demo man is a possibility, or alternating night kills between he and the baddies).

The number of power roles and how they are distributed is dependent upon Rico's interpretation of the heist game guidelines. If he interpreted "three power role limit" to mean "just for the town faction", then that's quite different to "for all factions combined". I am inclined to think with the latter mindset, because it is the more dangerous scenario and thus the one best to be prepared for. We have one cop and one unknown independent -- that'd leave room for one more non-vanilla role. It could be on the baddie side, perhaps a godfather. Given the original numbers though (10:3:1), I think it's more likely to be on the town side, most likely the doctor who will be keeping our cop alive through Night 3.

G-Man wrote:Big baddie Elohcin needs to die.


3.01

No proof there's a cop in play. G-Man makes the power play. People bought what he was selling without question. Scotty denies being independent.

Bemoaning to rabbit that INH was a vanilla civ right before he flipped vanilla civ was just ballsy and lucky then?


3.15

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Don't forget me, Elohcin. I need to know why I am both one of your two civilian peeks and one of your suspects.

I thought I was clear that I was joking about that :P

My summary for this game so far. - "I'm the cop." "No, I'm the cop." "I'm the cop." "Wait...I'm the cop."

3.14

G-Man wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Some things to be attentive to:

We started with 14 players and are now down 4, all town. I think that means that the most likely current ratio is 6 townies to 3 baddies to 1 independent. Those aren't great numbers, even considering we're about to eliminate a baddie. That could be one mislynch short of LyLo, no matter when the mislynch takes place. Scotty's role could also add complications if he is anti-town (a demo man is a possibility, or alternating night kills between he and the baddies).

The number of power roles and how they are distributed is dependent upon Rico's interpretation of the heist game guidelines. If he interpreted "three power role limit" to mean "just for the town faction", then that's quite different to "for all factions combined". I am inclined to think with the latter mindset, because it is the more dangerous scenario and thus the one best to be prepared for. We have one cop and one unknown independent -- that'd leave room for one more non-vanilla role. It could be on the baddie side, perhaps a godfather. Given the original numbers though (10:3:1), I think it's more likely to be on the town side, most likely the doctor who will be keeping our cop alive through Night 3.

G-Man wrote:Big baddie Elohcin needs to die.


3.01

No proof there's a cop in play. G-Man makes the power play. People bought what he was selling without question. Scotty denies being independent.

Bemoaning to rabbit that INH was a vanilla civ right before he flipped vanilla civ was just ballsy and lucky then?


3.15

It's a chance I would take.

G-Man wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:

G-Man wrote:Bitch rabbit I told you so.

RIP INH

2.01.N

This proves JJJ is bad?
Sorry INH. I had no idea, your posts were lacking.

Barely if at all. What I meant was I told you INH was a civ. I dropped a vague hint once already defending him this game. Oh well. Now we're stuck with rehashing Day 2's talking points for another day. Joy of joys.


2.02.N

You dropped a vague hint.

But there's also this:

G-Man wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:I'm voting INH.

Bah! You fool. INH is a vanilla civ!


2.32

A little less vague than my vague hint, no?

3.16

G-Man wrote:But there's also this:

G-Man wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:I'm voting INH.

Bah! You fool. INH is a vanilla civ!


2.32

A little less vague than my vague hint, no?

3.16

It's so hard calling somebody a vanilla civilian when you're bad.

If your vague hint was so obvious, you should have been killed Night 2. You weren't. And you weren't saved either. Somebody else died.

I changed my vote to you holmes.

Because someone wasn't paying attention, didn't have enough help selecting the kill, or both.

3.17

But if you really want to know why I didn't get NK'd last night, you'll have to ask Eloh. I was pleased as punch to make it through and score a red peek.


3.18

I humored Elohcin earlier to try and squeeze a little more data into the thread, but I think she's bad. I don't think this post ever comes from a townie:

Elohcin wrote:I'm fed up with all this cop claiming. Honestly, its ridiculous. I am the true cop, y'all. And I have two green peeks. Night 1 - Daisy - civ. Night 2 - JJJ - civ.

Really, all this cop claiming is going to confuse everyone. A cop is not supposed to just reveal what he/she finds. The cop is supposed to use the info he or she receives and build a case on that person if they find their peek is bad.

This does not look like a "joke" at all to me. It looks like a legitimate cop counterclaim meant to combat G-Man's red peek. This is a pretty perfect example of how baddies usually respond to being outed in a setup like this, often because it's their only choice. Once a cop has revealed him/herself and exposed you, you can either raise your white flag and shut down (to prevent any more information being drawn from your posts), or you can attempt to survive one additional phase by counterclaiming the cop and trying to get that player lynched instead of you. I've seen this a million times.

It's made worse that Elohcin has since claimed this wasn't meant to be taken seriously. I just don't believe that's the truth.

Elohcin wrote:I will not reveal anymore peeks. But if I get a baddie peek, I will do my best to build a convincing case on that player as the game intended.

Now, stop cop claiming so we can have some fun and find some baddies.

3.01

These last statements from the same post pretty much seal the deal for me. She is visibly annoyed to have been victimized by an infodump, and that's because the infodump is correct. This is not how I believe Elohcin would have responded if G-Man's red peek was false; she'd have immediately contested it and attacked him head on. This kind of passive-aggressive complaining about the concept of infodumping alongside a cop counterclaim she has since abandoned are not indicative of a town mindset. They are indicative of a caught mindset.

I think her most recent content is an attempt to show gamesmanship and fight the good fight after having surrendered earlier.

In the unlikely event that G-Man is lying and this leads to a town lynch, he hasn't sealed the win for the baddies by doing so. We'd likely be in a 7 vs. 3 scenario which would be a 5 vs. 3 scenario on the following day -- that's LyLo, but with G-Man all but confirmed as the next lynch and his team mates under significant pressure. I don't think this looks like a ballsy gambit by G-Man, it looks like a cop revealing his peeks.

I think his manner of revealing those peeks was a nice touch too -- at the last second of Night 2 in case he was killed, and then at the start of Day 3 after he wasn't. These are things that can be faked, but if we're going to assert that then the story we're telling about G-Man's gambit quickly becomes more complex, creative, and farfetched. I think it's much easier to believe that Elohcin is just bad.

Scotty is a confusing element in this discussion and I admit that needs to be resolved. I have no idea why G-Man would elect to falsely peek him as "independent" instead of just "civilian", because Scotty would have no reason to argue with the latter and we'd still be lynching Elohcin right now anyway.

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:If Scotty is a harmless independent, then I don't know what would hold him back from just telling us that. It's legal to do so. Instead he has outright denied being an independent and called G-Man a liar -- this means one of them must be a liar at least in this instance.

Well that's an easy one.

If he's civ, he's fine.

If he's indie: 'I have no idea who's bad so let's all just lynch Scotty because he's indie and definitely a threat to us'

Quin, I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Could you restate it?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:If Scotty is a harmless independent, then I don't know what would hold him back from just telling us that. It's legal to do so. Instead he has outright denied being an independent and called G-Man a liar -- this means one of them must be a liar at least in this instance.

Well that's an easy one.

If he's civ, he's fine.

If he's indie: 'I have no idea who's bad so let's all just lynch Scotty because he's indie and definitely a threat to us'

Quin, I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Could you restate it?

I'm saying that its likely Scotty is opposing g-mans claim because people would likely try to lynch him because there doesn't appear to be a better option. That's what I would do.


I'm phone posting and the uni internet is shit today. I'll elaborate further when I get home if you need me to.

If I had reason to believe he is a docile independent I wouldn't be interested in lynching him, at least not right now. If there's a chance he's a dangerous independent then that's a different story. That's why I'm confused why he refuted the peek outright -- that indicates to me that he is either a dangerous independent or not an independent at all. It'd be silly for him to hide behind the curtains right now if he is a safe indy.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:If I had reason to believe he is a docile independent I wouldn't be interested in lynching him, at least not right now. If there's a chance he's a dangerous independent then that's a different story. That's why I'm confused why he refuted the peek outright -- that indicates to me that he is either a dangerous independent or not an independent at all. It'd be silly for him to hide behind the curtains right now if he is a safe indy.

I haven't been in this situation with Syndicaters before, so maybe I'm being judgmental of people here, but in cases on my other site where an indie has claimed as such, the moment the lynch pool goes down to where there aren't many leads, it's often the indie that gets lynched regardless of whether its found that the indie is civ-motivated.

I agree with you that if the case is that he's docile, he's not a productive lynch. I don't see anything so far that would incriminate him as anything else right now, so that's where my thinking is at. Although I disagree that his disagreement would paint him only as either dangerous indie or non-indie, based on what I said above.

Dude, why would I for real cop claim after fussing at all of y'all for cop claiming. I could have used sarcastic orange, but that would have ruined the effect, I think.

Elohcin wrote:Dude, why would I for real cop claim after fussing at all of y'all for cop claiming. I could have used sarcastic orange, but that would have ruined the effect, I think.

You were pretending to find the cop claims annoying to support your own fake cop claim -- it makes more sense for the claims to bother you if you're the real cop.

Elohcin wrote:I will not reveal anymore peeks. But if I get a baddie peek, I will do my best to build a convincing case on that player as the game intended.

This line is a part of that claim. It is not a joke.

G-Man wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:G-Man, did your peek on Scotty specifically identify him as "independent" or just "not town"?

Bona fide independent. It was even a lovely shade of golden yellow. I know his role's name too but RicoHost told me that I'm not allowed to divulge that info.


3.

First of all, if I'm independent it's news to me; second, my role name is very vague and I don't know how you could pull anything of note from that.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:If Scotty is a harmless independent, then I don't know what would hold him back from just telling us that. It's legal to do so. Instead he has outright denied being an independent and called G-Man a liar -- this means one of them must be a liar at least in this instance.

If I were an independent at all, why not just roll with it and convince everyone I am a well-intentioned indie even if I wasn't?

I'm flat-out denying I am indie because my role says vanilla civ and I don't like being slandered. Lol I actually had to check and make sure I wasn't just missing out on something this game.
i dunno what else to say about that.
Again, if we're getting down to the skivvies and no one else looks enticing, (and GMan, the lying sack of potatoes, has been lynched if he hasn't been NK'd yet) just lynch me if you want to settle your minds.


Also voting Elo.

Scotty, Elohcin has since reneged on her baddie claim and resumed playing. Does this mean something to you?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Scotty, Elohcin has since reneged on her baddie claim and resumed playing. Does this mean something to you?

Uh no? Does it you?

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Scotty, Elohcin has since reneged on her baddie claim and resumed playing. Does this mean something to you?

Uh no? Does it you?

No, but I am not simultaneously refuting a G-Man peek.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Scotty, Elohcin has since reneged on her baddie claim and resumed playing. Does this mean something to you?

Uh no? Does it you?

No, but I am not simultaneously refuting a G-Man peek.

I'm only saying what I know to be true. do you think it's at least possible that GMan is full of bunk and just got a lucky? Hell, I could have come in and said Colonel Sanders' main ingredient in his chicken is Soylent Green and it could be revealed as so. Doesn't mean I performed a dead chicken seance and learned it. Could be a lucky postulation.

Or, could be a big red bus.

My turn:
I've been waiting til end of day to say this, but I got a peek of GMan last night:


































He's been working out

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Scotty, Elohcin has since reneged on her baddie claim and resumed playing. Does this mean something to you?

Uh no? Does it you?

No, but I am not simultaneously refuting a G-Man peek.

I'm only saying what I know to be true. do you think it's at least possible that GMan is full of bunk and just got a lucky? Hell, I could have come in and said Colonel Sanders' main ingredient in his chicken is Soylent Green and it could be revealed as so. Doesn't mean I performed a dead chicken seance and learned it. Could be a lucky postulation.

Or, could be a big red bus.

I believe it's plausible. Here's my question for you though:

If G-Man faked the peek and got lucky when Elohcin fell for it, that still implies he is not on her team. So if he is good, what is the purpose of faking an indy peek on you -- especially as a night phase is ending when he might be about to die and thus unable to ever reveal the truth of that fake peek?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Scotty, Elohcin has since reneged on her baddie claim and resumed playing. Does this mean something to you?

Uh no? Does it you?

No, but I am not simultaneously refuting a G-Man peek.

I'm only saying what I know to be true. do you think it's at least possible that GMan is full of bunk and just got a lucky? Hell, I could have come in and said Colonel Sanders' main ingredient in his chicken is Soylent Green and it could be revealed as so. Doesn't mean I performed a dead chicken seance and learned it. Could be a lucky postulation.

Or, could be a big red bus.

I believe it's plausible. Here's my question for you though:

If G-Man faked the peek and got lucky when Elohcin fell for it, that still implies he is not on her team. So if he is good, what is the purpose of faking an indy peek on you -- especially as a night phase is ending when he might be about to die and thus unable to ever reveal the truth of that fake peek?

Dunno. Indie is oddly specific. I think another possibly theory is there is a mechanic in this game that puts a lens through his peeks? If he really is the cop, there's some sort of hijinx at play here.

If he is bad, then like I said earlier, Elo could have been a planned target. Maybe she knew her goose was cooked, and let GMan be the one to assign the scapegoat. This would get him huge Cred, but you are right that it's a far-fetched idea if he doesn't survive the night.

Best guess from my end is that Scotty is denying it for two reasons:

1) He's got an either/or win-con and knows the baddie team is still in tact and might still have a shot at winning

2) He doesn't want the baddies to NK him out of concern that his role could be threat to them


After getting my peek on Scotty, I did consider the fact that the accuracy of my peeks may be in question. Scoring an indy peek right out of the gate is lucky, and I considered it as possibly too good to be true. INH and Eloh's peeks being confirmed as they are gives me hope that my Scotty peek is also correct. His dismissal of indy roles early on, as Quin noted, adds credibility in my mind but it could be a coincidence.

Getting Scotty's peek on Night 1 is why I said my GTH reads needed adjusting on Day 2. I didn't want to post a revised list early in the phase because Scotty had been my #1 suspicion on Day 1 and I didn't want to draw attention to his slide in my suspects list. Someone would have wanted to know why and there wasn't anything Scotty said in the thread to justify such a drop. That might have been conspicuous to attentive players. Thankfully, the JJJ v. Epi cage match ensued and no one asked about why Scotty slipped to #3 on my list.


3.StephenKing

G-Man wrote:Best guess from my end is that Scotty is denying it for two reasons:

1) He's got an either/or win-con and knows the baddie team is still in tact and might still have a shot at winning

2) He doesn't want the baddies to NK him out of concern that his role could be threat to them


After getting my peek on Scotty, I did consider the fact that the accuracy of my peeks may be in question. Scoring an indy peek right out of the gate is lucky, and I considered it as possibly too good to be true. INH and Eloh's peeks being confirmed as they are gives me hope that my Scotty peek is also correct. His dismissal of indy roles early on, as Quin noted, adds credibility in my mind but it could be a coincidence.

Getting Scotty's peek on Night 1 is why I said my GTH reads needed adjusting on Day 2. I didn't want to post a revised list early in the phase because Scotty had been my #1 suspicion on Day 1 and I didn't want to draw attention to his slide in my suspects list. Someone would have wanted to know why and there wasn't anything Scotty said in the thread to justify such a drop. That might have been conspicuous to attentive players. Thankfully, the JJJ v. Epi cage match ensued and no one asked about why Scotty slipped to #3 on my list.


3.StephenKing

Why did I slip to #3 on your list of 4?
Did you peek someone on N0?
Do you still think your peek could possible be too good to be true, and neither one of us are lying?


Post 10.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Dude, why would I for real cop claim after fussing at all of y'all for cop claiming. I could have used sarcastic orange, but that would have ruined the effect, I think.

You were pretending to find the cop claims annoying to support your own fake cop claim -- it makes more sense for the claims to bother you if you're the real cop.

No, they are annoying.

This may sound like a dumb question, but here goes.

When someone gets a peek, do they pick their target, or does the host provide the info? Basically, is this the same as a role check? Or is it random info?

I like croutons.

Here's the thing everyone. Gman isn't the cop.

I broke my phone. I'll have a new one tonight, hopefully before the vote. I'm in the middle of Odessa, no internet.

Scotty wrote:Why did I slip to #3 on your list of 4?
Did you peek someone on N0?
Do you still think your peek could possible be too good to be true, and neither one of us are lying?


Post 10.

Befuddled by your first question. I've been limiting my sus list to three. Where did you get the idea that I have a list of 4?

I didn't actively peek INH at the end of Day 0. When I got my role, I was informed that I would be provided with the name of a vanilla civ at the end of Day 0. That's why I asked JJJ why he picked sig as his Day 0 peek. It was an attempt to catch him in a lie. When he corrected sig that he was given a peek, I had to consider the possibility that other players got a free Day 0 peek as well as me. I forgot that he was the host of Arrested Development and had a wealth of knowledge about peek procedures.

I trust my peek.


3.20

So on Night one you did not CHOOSE Scotty to peek? I know nothing about peeking, tbh.

S~V~S wrote:So on Night one you did not CHOOSE Scotty to peek? I know nothing about peeking, tbh.

Both my Night 1 and Night 2 peeks were chosen by me. My Day 0 peek was given to me by the host.


3.21

G-Man wrote:

S~V~S wrote:So on Night one you did not CHOOSE Scotty to peek? I know nothing about peeking, tbh.

Both my Night 1 and Night 2 peeks were chosen by me. My Day 0 peek was given to me by the host.


3.21

Why did you not choose the person you voted for on Day One, me, to role check? Especially since earlier this day phase you were STILL mentioning me as potentially suspicious. Isn't role checking the people you suspect the point of being a role checker?

EBWOP, I mean when I have an info role, that is what I do. Last game I was an info role, The Office, I checked the person I voted day one on night one.

S~V~S wrote:

G-Man wrote:

S~V~S wrote:So on Night one you did not CHOOSE Scotty to peek? I know nothing about peeking, tbh.

Both my Night 1 and Night 2 peeks were chosen by me. My Day 0 peek was given to me by the host.


3.21

Why did you not choose the person you voted for on Day One, me, to role check? Especially since earlier this day phase you were STILL mentioning me as potentially suspicious. Isn't role checking the people you suspect the point of being a role checker?

Because you were only my #2 suspect on Day 1. Scotty was my #1 but there wasn't any traction for a Scotty train, hence the vote for you. On Day 2, you dropped off my sus list but you're back to being #2 again because it makes sense in my head.

3.21

You were the first vote for me. Why do you think there was traction for an SVS train? Both Scotty & I had zero votes when you voted for me. Rather than trying to lynch Scotty, you instead followed someone elses self admittedly weak suspicion, weak enough that he did not even vote for me himself.

Also can you try to make it make sense for me? I would like to hear your reasoning if it has evolved past "becasue Rabbit" and the timing of my absences which I have explained, and have in fact been replaced out of the other game I was playing due to no wifi and time constraints. I also would like it if you check me tonight, if you are indeed the Peeker.

I wouldn't automatically check the person I voted for. In an infodump setup, it's ideal to check people who aren't already to lynch priorities, because they're the ones on whom the game will be decided. It's about checking people who are likely to be there in the end to maximize one's chance of solving the game.

Well, I would. And since he thinks I am so scary when bad that he auto suspects me for no real reason, and said as much in one of his first posts, I would think he would want to know for sure that I am on his side.

G-Man wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I am replacing in here; I was under the impression that I was going to be announced by the host earlier, but life is crazy in Nauru, amirite?

Haven't read the rules etc yet, just checking in. Also I think H. Swank is hot, a person doesn't need to be traditionally beautiful to be hot. She & Chloe Sevigny (another hot but not really pretty per se actress) burnt up the screen in Boys Don't Cry, which is mainly where I recall Hilary Swank.

Linki, also plan on marching to my own drummer this game.

Brace yourself for automatic suspicion from me. I'm prepared for and anticipate reciprocation.

Second post of the game. If he has the means to clear up "automatic suspicion" I would think he would have

DrWilgy wrote:I like croutons.

Here's the thing everyone. Gman isn't the cop.

I believe you.

If nothing else I'm glad there's been at least some controversy/disagreement in this phase. It helps to alleviate the boredom and low pressure of a landslide tally.

eloh. Sorry still no phone.

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