The Syndicate

no u

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:56 pm A few things have thrown me off from the beginning but his current vote for Marmot is something that inclines me to think that way as well. I also just don't think his iso is carrying the proper tone and I'm wondering if his read on sloonei was developed improperly. He also also seems hesistant to say things that I wouldn't usually think he'd be hesitant to say. I did like the post he made where he talked about sloonei/jay mutual TRs and how seriously they're taken or something though idk

this is probably just the usual day 1 jay tinfoil but that's where I'm at

Hesitant to say what things

What about the Sloonei read development

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:57 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:49 pm He refuses to townread me so I'm receptive

Do something town-like.

I've been ridiculously townie so far

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:00 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:57 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:49 pm He refuses to townread me so I'm receptive

Do something town-like.

I've been ridiculously townie so far

No

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:07 pm I'm highkey salty when people seem to trust Sloonei's read on me more than they trust my read on him.

liked this one

The best thing I can say for you, Nanook, is that it’s a familiar feeling being in this place with you. It’s happened over and over in games where I have no idea what to do with you, and you take fucking forever to see my own “ridiculously townie” behaviors for what they are.

And I think those have ended up town/town in the past. I don’t recall an exception off-hand.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:47 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:04 pm I'd appreciate if anyone that views KZA as a high-level suspect could talk to me about why. @MacDougall you're one. @TonyStarkPrime you implied something like that.

Actually sorta for the same reason as Tutuu. I've participated in my fair share of day 1 kza chops so I'm slightly leery, but my impression is that he entered the thread with a more serious tone than he has in games I've seen him previously and I was wondering if this could be a scum indication. Plus there was an interaction I didn't like but I don't remember what it was

I rand scum like once a year but I think my scum game is noticeably rigid and cold, either that or I get bussed instantly and antispew prior to my D1 chop

I am aware my tone has been more serious, it was more me trying to be a better player but now I've just gotten myself scumread so I'm pissed

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:48 pm guys if I were to say that I think that jay is a wolf here how would that be taken?

I could tinfoil it but later

---

Nanook hasn't spoken to me once but now I'm Maf to him so he can get OMGUS'd too

Reminder to self to directly compare this KZA with Fallout 2 KZA

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:02 pm The best thing I can say for you, Nanook, is that it’s a familiar feeling being in this place with you. It’s happened over and over in games where I have no idea what to do with you, and you take fucking forever to see my own “ridiculously townie” behaviors for what they are.

And I think those have ended up town/town in the past. I don’t recall an exception off-hand.

I don't read you until d3 or d4 cause you usually self resolve

I think I've largely been correct in my reads of you, haven't kept track

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:03 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:47 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:04 pm I'd appreciate if anyone that views KZA as a high-level suspect could talk to me about why. @MacDougall you're one. @TonyStarkPrime you implied something like that.

Actually sorta for the same reason as Tutuu. I've participated in my fair share of day 1 kza chops so I'm slightly leery, but my impression is that he entered the thread with a more serious tone than he has in games I've seen him previously and I was wondering if this could be a scum indication. Plus there was an interaction I didn't like but I don't remember what it was

I rand scum like once a year but I think my scum game is noticeably rigid and cold, either that or I get bussed instantly and antispew prior to my D1 chop

I am aware my tone has been more serious, it was more me trying to be a better player but now I've just gotten myself scumread so I'm pissed

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:48 pm guys if I were to say that I think that jay is a wolf here how would that be taken?

I could tinfoil it but later

---

Nanook hasn't spoken to me once but now I'm Maf to him so he can get OMGUS'd too

I don't feel the need to speak to people before voting them

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:51 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:47 pm I am interested in investigating the following people more:
- Marmot
- SPF
- Dom
- Long Con
- Fingersplints

why is dom on that list when he hasn't posted?

Not posting is why Dom is on the list.

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:48 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:47 pm I am interested in investigating the following people more:
- Marmot
- SPF
- Dom
- Long Con
- Fingersplints

what about @Michelle

I usually don't have a huge amount of trouble reading Michelle, and she's the type whose alignment becomes more and more clear over the course of the game. So I don't see a huge need to investigate her right now.

SPF can you talk a little more about how you got your pool of "at least one mafia, probably multiple"?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:09 pm SPF can you talk a little more about how you got your pool of "at least one mafia, probably multiple"?

i looked at the playerlist and then wrote down the names that i felt the most concerned about. there wasn't much methodology beyond that

Can a guy get a read on BoKnows

Bo seems lightly townie. He's not as eager to appease as I'd expect a scum Bo.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:07 pm I don't read you until d3 or d4 cause you usually self resolve

I think I've largely been correct in my reads of you, haven't kept track

Lock me town and maybe I'll resolve myself faster.

AL_sama wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:20 pm @tutuu is it just me seeing things or you're indeed kinda acting pumped up??

AL_sama wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:25 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:15 pm

AL_sama wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:20 pm @tutuu is it just me seeing things or you're indeed kinda acting pumped up??

Could you tell me where you were going with this question?

well I've never seen her this pumped before so it felt a bit weird to me

kinda like she is putting in an act of sort

If AL thought tutuu was Poison, these comments can be viewed through that lens. I tend to view Poison as a bubbly and energetic poster, albeit one who sometimes falls off the activity grid. So I'm iffy on the observation for what it is. Then even if it's accepted it's rather meh in a similar fashion to the gripes I raised earlier on Bo's suspicion of tutuu (if that was actually suspicion?)

Oh good, I've only missed 1k posts.

What'd I miss?

I just opened ted's ISO thinking I might have some gripes, but the posts look pretty decent to me. There's a degree of nuance in his views of JPIC that makes it harder to view as something like TMI. It could be mafia/mafia, but I don't care about reads like that at all right now.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:34 pmWhat'd I miss?

Numerous micro-interactions between various pairs and trios of players that could not be effectively summarized without writing a novel. You might be well advised to try catching up with ISOs instead of forcing yourself through the thread. If you want to do that though, you do you.

study break time

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:34 pmWhat'd I miss?

idk just do what I do and read what's in front of me and read back if u gotta.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:34 pm I just opened ted's ISO thinking I might have some gripes, but the posts look pretty decent to me. There's a degree of nuance in his views of JPIC that makes it harder to view as something like TMI. It could be mafia/mafia, but I don't care about reads like that at all right now.

Who's ted and why do you think you were on to something?

BoKnows wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:38 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:34 pm I just opened ted's ISO thinking I might have some gripes, but the posts look pretty decent to me. There's a degree of nuance in his views of JPIC that makes it harder to view as something like TMI. It could be mafia/mafia, but I don't care about reads like that at all right now.

Who's ted and why do you think you were on to something?

tedxtr

"on to something" isn't quite it. He just vaguely filled a "this is a slot that can be mafia" space in my mental construction of the game state, which is why I elected to review his posts more closely.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:40 pm

BoKnows wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:38 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:34 pm I just opened ted's ISO thinking I might have some gripes, but the posts look pretty decent to me. There's a degree of nuance in his views of JPIC that makes it harder to view as something like TMI. It could be mafia/mafia, but I don't care about reads like that at all right now.

Who's ted and why do you think you were on to something?

tedxtr

"on to something" isn't quite it. He just vaguely filled a "this is a slot that can be mafia" space in my mental construction of the game state, which is why I elected to review his posts more closely.

Okay thanks. None of Ted's post really stick out to me. We had a brief interaction over "chug jug with you".

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:20 am Sloonei Falcon SPF TSP JJJ town enough

Esooa meh

Tutuu probably scummiest player because I OMGUS a lot

Could you please expand on the non-tutuu reads here?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:36 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:34 pmWhat'd I miss?

Numerous micro-interactions between various pairs and trios of players that could not be effectively summarized without writing a novel. You might be well advised to try catching up with ISOs instead of forcing yourself through the thread. If you want to do that though, you do you.

My tactic in large games has been to largely ignore everything that happens until halfway through Day 1 for my own sanity. That said, town has lost every such game. I'll start with SPF and KZA isos.


Why are you voting me and why do you have 100+ posts already?

BoKnows wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:37 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:34 pmWhat'd I miss?

idk just do what I do and read what's in front of me and read back if u gotta.

Yah I'll order off your menu, what're you having?

Was there a verdict on the multiball discussion? That's the only thing I remember from yesterday

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:46 pm Why are you voting me and why do you have 100+ posts already?

I am voting you for an absence of civilian indicators. I don't expect you to "respond" to that at this point. If you look over those ISOs you mentioned and say your piece, that'll be a good start for your sake and mine.

I have over 100 posts because I am an unfortunate human being.

I want tutuu fanfics about TSPF

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:48 pm Was there a verdict on the multiball discussion? That's the only thing I remember from yesterday

no one's step forward and declared otherwise so I'm currently leaning "we'll know when we know"

Why am I playing mafia with unfortunate human beings...

what's multiball?

JJJJPILCKZATSPFS

BoKnows wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:53 pm what's multiball?

Multiple mafia teams. Probably a meaningless conversation until some actual evidence arrives to suggest it's to be taken seriously.

Ahhh thanks.

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

regular mafia is already hard enough. now we might have double the trouble.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:58 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:56 pm A few things have thrown me off from the beginning but his current vote for Marmot is something that inclines me to think that way as well. I also just don't think his iso is carrying the proper tone and I'm wondering if his read on sloonei was developed improperly. He also also seems hesistant to say things that I wouldn't usually think he'd be hesitant to say. I did like the post he made where he talked about sloonei/jay mutual TRs and how seriously they're taken or something though idk

this is probably just the usual day 1 jay tinfoil but that's where I'm at

Hesitant to say what things

What about the Sloonei read development

@TonyStarkPrime

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:33 am i just remembered kza explaining that he's omgussy mann why do u explainn ur readsss that scummyyy dudeeeee only scum explain their reads

falcon
jay
mac
alison
esooa

---

kza

Tutuu's just openwolfing, got it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:58 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:58 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:56 pm A few things have thrown me off from the beginning but his current vote for Marmot is something that inclines me to think that way as well. I also just don't think his iso is carrying the proper tone and I'm wondering if his read on sloonei was developed improperly. He also also seems hesistant to say things that I wouldn't usually think he'd be hesitant to say. I did like the post he made where he talked about sloonei/jay mutual TRs and how seriously they're taken or something though idk

this is probably just the usual day 1 jay tinfoil but that's where I'm at

Hesitant to say what things

What about the Sloonei read development

@TonyStarkPrime

I answered this

oh the other half

I don't think sloonei has been town enough for your day zero "sloonei's town folks" style post which I think you walked back maybe

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:43 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:20 am Sloonei Falcon SPF TSP JJJ town enough

Esooa meh

Tutuu probably scummiest player because I OMGUS a lot

Could you please expand on the non-tutuu reads here?

All of the town reads come from feeling fine about the interactions I had with said players after questioning, basically not finding anything they said to be manufactured or malicious. I didn't interact with you all that much but we had that mindmeld about Tony early and you feel similar to that G-Man game we played. Alison was supposed to be in the town reads too but I guess I forgot her.

Esooa idk, not townreading her yet and thought her questioning of my Falcon post was odd but she seemed to accept my explanation. I solved her off of mech in Spiderverse and was (semi) wrong about her in Fallout 2 so she's kind of a tough one for me

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:53 pm JJJJPILCKZATSPFS

please stop leaking our cool team name we came up with in wolfchat

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:56 pm @KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

I don't think I have been? I'm not worried about him right now so no reason to redact the read anyway

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:43 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:20 am Sloonei Falcon SPF TSP JJJ town enough

Esooa meh

Tutuu probably scummiest player because I OMGUS a lot

Could you please expand on the non-tutuu reads here?

All of the town reads come from feeling fine about the interactions I had with said players after questioning, basically not finding anything they said to be manufactured or malicious. I didn't interact with you all that much but we had that mindmeld about Tony early and you feel similar to that G-Man game we played. Alison was supposed to be in the town reads too but I guess I forgot her.

Esooa idk, not townreading her yet and thought her questioning of my Falcon post was odd but she seemed to accept my explanation. I solved her off of mech in Spiderverse and was (semi) wrong about her in Fallout 2 so she's kind of a tough one for me

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:53 pm JJJJPILCKZATSPFS

please stop leaking our cool team name we came up with in wolfchat

You fool, you clown, you scum! I knew it. You didn't think I would notice but I have. Your secret it out and there is nothing you can do about it!

I'd like to determine an ideal POE pool target size. 22 players presents some awkward alignment ratios, so it's difficult to project. For now I am ignoring talk of multiple mafia teams and operating under the assumption there is only one. If so, I see three arrangements that could be reasonably plausible:

a) 16:4:1:1
b) 16:5:1
c) 17:5

The correct answer, if it's any of those, is dependent upon role strength. I have no idea. I think a safe starting point would be to work with (b) -- I'd expect at least one third party faction, and most hosts seem to favor ratios closer to 3:1 than to 4:1, for better or for worse. So on that basis:

5 mafia, 17 non-mafia

In a world with normal killing pace and a non-hostile independent, that'd set up 5 mischops allowable before MiCho/ChoLo. That would demand a POE pool of 10 (5 mafia + 5 mischops). I'm going to reduce that to 9 immediately in anticipation of at least some non-standard night phase killing power.

So my efforts are to get to a comfortable POE pool of 9, or at least as close as I can. That will be an ambitious undertaking, because it requires removing 12 not-JJJs from the mafia pool. I probably won't be able to manage that confidently, but the effort should still be a net positive if it can be reasonably attempted.