Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/
I think most people believe you. That doesn't necessarily mean Belzy is scum, though. And spending 48h waiting for Belzy to die doesn't sound productive.
Oops, sorry Seanzie, flip-flopped my opinion on Belzy again.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:38 amI think most people believe you. That doesn't necessarily mean Belzy is scum, though. And spending 48h waiting for Belzy to die doesn't sound productive.
There's nothing wrong with other people wanting to poke around in other directions in the mean time.
To continue, like, I was actually kind of getting into the game on D1, but my motivation is gone for D2 here. Partially that's a me thing (other things came up and took my attention) but also it's because everything now revolves around a she-said-she-said dichotomy I'm not involved in, so like...I may as well just wait till the flip so we can move on one way or another, y'know?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:38 amI think most people believe you. That doesn't necessarily mean Belzy is scum, though. And spending 48h waiting for Belzy to die doesn't sound productive.
There's nothing wrong with other people wanting to poke around in other directions in the mean time.
I know, I'm just so paranoid of last minute vote shenanigans and manipulations throughout the day, that I'd fell a lot better with a bigger than one vote margin on Belzy.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:38 amI think most people believe you. That doesn't necessarily mean Belzy is scum, though. And spending 48h waiting for Belzy to die doesn't sound productive.
There's nothing wrong with other people wanting to poke around in other directions in the mean time.
I'll probably just repost that last post ^^ a few times over the course of today and just stay out of here, tbh.It's not as clear to me, with votes peeling off and lots of small wagons.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:44 amTo continue, like, I was actually kind of getting into the game on D1, but my motivation is gone for D2 here. Partially that's a me thing (other things came up and took my attention) but also it's because everything now revolves around a she-said-she-said dichotomy I'm not involved in, so like...I may as well just wait till the flip so we can move on one way or another, y'know?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:38 amI think most people believe you. That doesn't necessarily mean Belzy is scum, though. And spending 48h waiting for Belzy to die doesn't sound productive.
There's nothing wrong with other people wanting to poke around in other directions in the mean time.
I feel like it's fairly clear we're going to flip Belzy today. So I'm not going to bother wasting more time thinking about whether it's indignant townie or cornered baddie. I'm mostly mulling over a few other slots that haven't gotten as much attention, and letting thoughts percolate in my brain space. I have half-formed thoughts on the gamestate we're in and what it means, but since Belzy has become the thread's centre of gravity none of it is worth pursuing until we have her alignment to anchor our worldview.
No no, I know it wasn't intentional. It's just what it evolved into. It happens.S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:49 amIt's not as clear to me, with votes peeling off and lots of small wagons.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:44 amTo continue, like, I was actually kind of getting into the game on D1, but my motivation is gone for D2 here. Partially that's a me thing (other things came up and took my attention) but also it's because everything now revolves around a she-said-she-said dichotomy I'm not involved in, so like...I may as well just wait till the flip so we can move on one way or another, y'know?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:38 amI think most people believe you. That doesn't necessarily mean Belzy is scum, though. And spending 48h waiting for Belzy to die doesn't sound productive.
There's nothing wrong with other people wanting to poke around in other directions in the mean time.
I feel like it's fairly clear we're going to flip Belzy today. So I'm not going to bother wasting more time thinking about whether it's indignant townie or cornered baddie. I'm mostly mulling over a few other slots that haven't gotten as much attention, and letting thoughts percolate in my brain space. I have half-formed thoughts on the gamestate we're in and what it means, but since Belzy has become the thread's centre of gravity none of it is worth pursuing until we have her alignment to anchor our worldview.
I'm sorry that happened, it wasn't my intention. I figured I'd say what happened, the mob would rabble rabble, and then we'd talk about other thoughts. I wasn't trying to turn it into this.
I just want it over, too, so i can get NKed tonight and move on
Assuming she is bad, who do you think could be partnered with her, or not?
I know you disagree, Ted.tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:03 am i think she’s wolfy for her reaction, not the vote switching
kinda find it hard for someone to think they could buy themselves out of a lunch after spending at least 10 posts defending them and sneak voting them to get them across
I don’t understand how you view that as a wolf ploy lol
How much did you waver at the time? Were you 1.) gung-ho on Scum!Belzy, seeing it as a 2.) GTH scum!Belzy, but without confidence, or were you still 3.) thinking t/t, but considering perhaps Belzy!scum wasn't out of this world (or create your own option 4)?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:36 amSpoiler: showI don't...quite get the issue here? I skimmed the whole Belzy/SVS briefly, felt it was 'indignant towny', then later re-read more carefully and wavered on that opinion?Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:50 pm Finally, the way they talked about the Belzy reaction seems to have a bit of a timescale issue (but I could be wrong). In their first post about it, they mention that SVS/Belzy looks like t/t, and end that post saying "Belzy's strong reaction could be a wolfy attempt to fight back". The way this post is written, it looks like it was all written at once with no re-reading in between.... but then a few posts later they say that on initial read they thought Belzy was indignant townie, but upon re-read thought cornered scum.
Was that first post written before the re-read? (it sure doesn't feel like it from the last paragraph), or after the re-read (it sure doesn't feel like it from the first 2/3 of the post)? Seems very weird. Feels kind of like the timeline of MR's thoughts was made up afterwards to serve a purpose.
Between (2) and (3). I can't say I had made a firm decision in my head. I can just now see both worlds fairly equally.Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:50 amHow much did you waver at the time? Were you 1.) gung-ho on Scum!Belzy, seeing it as a 2.) GTH scum!Belzy, but without confidence, or were you still 3.) thinking t/t, but considering perhaps Belzy!scum wasn't out of this world (or create your own option 4)?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:36 amSpoiler: showI don't...quite get the issue here? I skimmed the whole Belzy/SVS briefly, felt it was 'indignant towny', then later re-read more carefully and wavered on that opinion?Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:50 pm Finally, the way they talked about the Belzy reaction seems to have a bit of a timescale issue (but I could be wrong). In their first post about it, they mention that SVS/Belzy looks like t/t, and end that post saying "Belzy's strong reaction could be a wolfy attempt to fight back". The way this post is written, it looks like it was all written at once with no re-reading in between.... but then a few posts later they say that on initial read they thought Belzy was indignant townie, but upon re-read thought cornered scum.
Was that first post written before the re-read? (it sure doesn't feel like it from the last paragraph), or after the re-read (it sure doesn't feel like it from the first 2/3 of the post)? Seems very weird. Feels kind of like the timeline of MR's thoughts was made up afterwards to serve a purpose.
Onion ring.
I don't know. I just think the idea of testing the poll is towny.Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:39 amWhat are these tests and how do you preform them?Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:14 pmI already townread Sean but this confirms it for me. Town are way more likely to think of things like testing how the poll resets because they're actually solving instead of faking it.Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:17 pmI'm specifically asking because while Belzy's story seems weird, she does give of kind of an indignant vibe about it. It is possible that is bravado (and that is what I'm leaning towards), but I'd like to rule out the possiblity that your two stories are compatable. The poll is a little funny in how it resets (and I just did a few tests to check my understanding myself), so I want to make sure I know exactly what you're claiming to see to check if it is truly incompatible with Belzy's claim, or compatible, but coming from a misunderstanding about the poll.Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:13 pmJust to be sure I understand though, when you say "definitely once", do you mean thatS~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:07 pm @Seanzie definitely once, possibly twice. I didn’t notice and movement any other time. I don’t know for 100% sure. I wasn’t refreshing like clockwork, I know I saw it once after the initial time, but I won’t swear it never happened again.
I saw what I saw and her reaction cemented it for me.
1.) you definitely saw it for one 2-3 minute period between refreshes,
or did you have a situation where you:
2.) saw it, knowing you hadn't refreshed, hadn't clicked to see more posts, anything, for at least 2-3 minutes, then refreshed and it was still there?
You can, but I'm wondering why you thought it was necessary to vote specifically Belzy for self pres that early in the day.
You should be. You happened to be a focal point the moment I got too bored waiting for sandwiches at a firehouse.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:19 amIs...is your first non-emoji/licking post about me?
I think I should be honoured.
What response does indicate a town tell for me?S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:32 am As an aside, after ^^ Belzy makes a "any reason why" remark at Wilgy, who she has been shading all game (which I figured out from rereading her at 4 effing 30 this AM cause I couldn't sleep thinking about this game lolol), without making any real effort to do anything about him. She even made a cute little remark about how hard it is to get a Wilgy vote going.
Until Sean moved to Robyn, 3 minutes before the poll ended, and Wilgy moved to Robyn right after Sean Like 2 minutes.
I could consider a Wilgy vote, but it would be for associative reasons, and meta reads (like I think his responses to Belzys shade were not what i would expect of town Wilgy, like I said, it's his town tell for me), but it would be an associative read based on Belzy being bad. I would rather yeet Belzy first. Yeeting someone becasue I think they're the partner of someone else who I think is bad would be putting the cart before the horse.
I think Belzy may have actually misclicked at one point. I don't think she'd tell two different stories if it were a complete lie, I think she'd try hard to stick with one.Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:49 amOr it was Ted instead of Robyn..so even earlier on d1
As I mentioned earlier if I was suspected for a misclick I wouldn't accuse SVS of lying, I'd think we had different views of it. This certainty on SVS feels like Belzy's cornered, and the reasons she comes up with feel made up on the spot. She concluded she had to push SVS first, then found whatever reasons she could come up with later.
I don't really believe out of all the things in SVS's ISO, it's thanking Zenon for explaining that is a + point for SVS and that's the only one. It feels like she's trying not to be perceived as getting into a thunderdome at this point and imo still thinks she has a chance of not being caught.
Their tone has struck me as very different here vs Cyberpunk. In Cyberpunk, I felt like they were relying a bit too much on "aww, comeon guys, you don't want to sus me, do you?DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:38 am Belzy is a fine yeet. Their interactions with me feels in likeness to Jay's interactions with me in Don't Starve, where I'm for some reason the best vote in spite of just not being there.
DrWilgy is a fine yeet. Was afk most of d1 and has apparently read like 5 pages of the game. Taking heed of what he says once flipped is advised.
Epi is a gentleman and a scholar. Do not yeet.
Falcon is a gentleman and a scholar. Do not yeet.
Splints is a lady and a scholar. Do not yeet.
LC is a fine yeet. Their play seems very in likeness to cyberpunk. Seems that they are keen to stack mislims on the back of Belzy while at the same time willing to change who their vote is and who's the most wolfy to them per the words of another (just like in cyberpunk).
MR is a fine yeet. Their play seems to be very indicative of desire to open the PoE. The more I think on Seanzie pointing out their PoEs seem like busy work the less well it sits with me.
Seanzie is a fine yeet. Their play around Belzy seems very hedgey. They seem to be on the wagon and off the wagon at their leisure. Somewhat in likeness of MR keeping the PoE wide, but seems to have more Belzy focus. Weird thread pulls I think.
SVS is a lady and a scholar. Do not yeet.
Ted is a gentleman and a scholar. Do not yeet.
Thunal is a lady and a scholar. Do not yeet.
Zenon is a lady and a scholar. Do not yeet.
" whereas here, they don't feel like that. However, I'll take a look at Cyberpunk and try to compare play rather than tone when I have some time later.I feel like it's similar enough, but yeah if you'd look I'd appreciate it. I knew they were wolf the entire time so I'm unsure if my perspective is 100%, it's just enough for me to be suspicious. It's really the vote swap off Belzy at Zenon's request that seems very comparable to me. (also some omgus in that the vote went to me for some reason? I don't think I'd seen LC play with my gimmick once this game)Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:13 pm Their tone has struck me as very different here vs Cyberpunk. In Cyberpunk, I felt like they were relying a bit too much on "aww, comeon guys, you don't want to sus me, do you? " whereas here, they don't feel like that. However, I'll take a look at Cyberpunk and try to compare play rather than tone when I have some time later.
There is a very important piece of context here that you are missing (forgetting? Deliberately excluding? Who knows?). At the start of the day, my gut was screaming wolf!SVS.
Interesting, I'll have to check myself for this pattern going forward ty.S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:38 pm @DrWilgy
It’s my personal tell for you. I don’t mind sharing my tells because it makes for a better game, having a tricksier opponent.
When someone voted for you, and you’re town, you make a rebuking (this is the best way I can describe it) post to them about the vote on you. In Hot Dog Fingers, all you were saying was “yes” (or maybe ‘no’?) and you posted that word and an emoji to me, and I got the reproachfulness.
It’s a hard thing to quantify, but when I tell someone I think you’re town, it’s often because I’ve seen you reply to someone this way. I don’t ever recall seeing you do it when bad, but I might have just missed it.
So it stuck out to me that you didn’t react this way to not just one but two votes on you. It’s a meta tell, not a thing to build cases on. Just a thing that makes me pay extra attention.
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:21 pmI feel like it's similar enough, but yeah if you'd look I'd appreciate it. I knew they were wolf the entire time so I'm unsure if my perspective is 100%, it's just enough for me to be suspicious. It's really the vote swap off Belzy at Zenon's request that seems very comparable to me. (also some omgus in that the vote went to me for some reason? I don't think I'd seen LC play with my gimmick once this game)Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:13 pm Their tone has struck me as very different here vs Cyberpunk. In Cyberpunk, I felt like they were relying a bit too much on "aww, comeon guys, you don't want to sus me, do you? " whereas here, they don't feel like that. However, I'll take a look at Cyberpunk and try to compare play rather than tone when I have some time later.
There is a very important piece of context here that you are missing (forgetting? Deliberately excluding? Who knows?). At the start of the day, my gut was screaming wolf!SVS.
Fair enough. I knew you expressed it but I didn't know how heavy of a pull it had on you. How do you feel on SVS now?
it wasn't necessary, i just felt like it because i get d1'd on this site pretty much every time i playThunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:12 amYou can, but I'm wondering why you thought it was necessary to vote specifically Belzy for self pres that early in the day.
Yes, only Wilgy should be given a hammer. For Wilgy with a hammer can do cool things, like place nails into lumber.
That's fine but games are slow and shitty without one
I feel like you are deliberately overblowing the situation.Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:48 pmThat's fine but games are slow and shitty without one
You have all decided to kill Belzy
You are all tunneled and have made up your mind nothing anyone says matters
This day should be over
Belzy was at 6 earlier and I would have just hammered itSeanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:16 pmI feel like you are deliberately overblowing the situation.Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:48 pmThat's fine but games are slow and shitty without one
You have all decided to kill Belzy
You are all tunneled and have made up your mind nothing anyone says matters
This day should be over
With 12 people alive, hammer would be at 7, Belzy's wagon is at 5 right now.
I don't think people are tunneled, and I personally have been specifically doing my due diligence to make sure I feel okay with a Belzy wagon. Others have specifically called Belzy/SVS t/t.
Best yet, many people are ALSO looking into people who aren't SVS and Belzy, or using the situation to cause others to create content.
Belzy was also at 4 earlier before I voted. I think people's minds aren't made up, and what people say matters.Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:37 pmBelzy was at 6 earlier and I would have just hammered itSeanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:16 pmI feel like you are deliberately overblowing the situation.Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:48 pmThat's fine but games are slow and shitty without one
You have all decided to kill Belzy
You are all tunneled and have made up your mind nothing anyone says matters
This day should be over
With 12 people alive, hammer would be at 7, Belzy's wagon is at 5 right now.
I don't think people are tunneled, and I personally have been specifically doing my due diligence to make sure I feel okay with a Belzy wagon. Others have specifically called Belzy/SVS t/t.
Best yet, many people are ALSO looking into people who aren't SVS and Belzy, or using the situation to cause others to create content.
I'm not fucking over blowing shit and I'm sick of being told i am
It quite literally is for me
*shrugs* keeping town alive seems positive to meSeanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:56 pmBelzy was also at 4 earlier before I voted. I think people's minds aren't made up, and what people say matters.Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:37 pmBelzy was at 6 earlier and I would have just hammered itSeanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:16 pmI feel like you are deliberately overblowing the situation.Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:48 pmThat's fine but games are slow and shitty without one
You have all decided to kill Belzy
You are all tunneled and have made up your mind nothing anyone says matters
This day should be over
With 12 people alive, hammer would be at 7, Belzy's wagon is at 5 right now.
I don't think people are tunneled, and I personally have been specifically doing my due diligence to make sure I feel okay with a Belzy wagon. Others have specifically called Belzy/SVS t/t.
Best yet, many people are ALSO looking into people who aren't SVS and Belzy, or using the situation to cause others to create content.
I'm not fucking over blowing shit and I'm sick of being told i am
Okay then, I'll try to choose my words carefully. I feel that my perception of the situation is much more positive than yours. I feel like many people are giving Belzy's alignment a fair shake, and enough people are interested in hearing out arguments on both sides to make the day not a waste. Also, some people are willing to work on reads outside of Belzy/SVS, and I think that is productive. As such, I am slightly wary of your motives here. I did appreciate your explanations on your Belzy read earlier (and wouldn't mind hearing from you re:my response to those explanations), but I don't understand how what you're doing at this point is pushing the game forward in a positive direction (and I personally feel like it is more likely to push the game in a negative direction by giving people an excuse to do nothing today, and in general decrease WIM).
Okay, well if at some point you want to discuss Belzy and/or others, let me know.Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:58 pm*shrugs* keeping town alive seems positive to meSeanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:56 pmBelzy was also at 4 earlier before I voted. I think people's minds aren't made up, and what people say matters.Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:37 pmBelzy was at 6 earlier and I would have just hammered itSeanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:16 pmI feel like you are deliberately overblowing the situation.Zenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:48 pmThat's fine but games are slow and shitty without one
You have all decided to kill Belzy
You are all tunneled and have made up your mind nothing anyone says matters
This day should be over
With 12 people alive, hammer would be at 7, Belzy's wagon is at 5 right now.
I don't think people are tunneled, and I personally have been specifically doing my due diligence to make sure I feel okay with a Belzy wagon. Others have specifically called Belzy/SVS t/t.
Best yet, many people are ALSO looking into people who aren't SVS and Belzy, or using the situation to cause others to create content.
I'm not fucking over blowing shit and I'm sick of being told i am
Okay then, I'll try to choose my words carefully. I feel that my perception of the situation is much more positive than yours. I feel like many people are giving Belzy's alignment a fair shake, and enough people are interested in hearing out arguments on both sides to make the day not a waste. Also, some people are willing to work on reads outside of Belzy/SVS, and I think that is productive. As such, I am slightly wary of your motives here. I did appreciate your explanations on your Belzy read earlier (and wouldn't mind hearing from you re:my response to those explanations), but I don't understand how what you're doing at this point is pushing the game forward in a positive direction (and I personally feel like it is more likely to push the game in a negative direction by giving people an excuse to do nothing today, and in general decrease WIM).