2018 Socky Awards Mafia (FINAL PRESENTATIONS!)

[sabie12]

Lol yeah nvm that post nearly confirms sabie is bad

How? I'm saying why would I be that stupid. I mean I've played poorly but I'm not dumb. If I were bad I would have done things differently. If you guys really do think I'm that dumb though then oh well.

We don't think you're dumb. Just taking advantage of a WIFOM excuse. It's actually a smart move but if you show your hand with an unprompted line it's not the most effective.

I brought it up because I'm saying I'm on to the baddie strategy. Trying to frame me by killing off luna. They think they're being clever and maybe they are if the others believe it. They weren't going to kill me because I had enough suspicion on me to bring about a mislynch. Sloonei comes in with all this stuff against me to bring that about. I'm just saying I wouldn't have done something so obvious because that would just be a dumb move on my part.

[Sloonei]

Could you specify what your accusation against me is?

[speedchuck]

RIP Luna.

I'll be around tomorrow, as much as is needed. Last day of the game, one way or another. Let's finish strong.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]abyssum[/mention]
[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention]
[mention]DharmaHelper[/mention]
[mention]Kylemii[/mention]
[mention]Lunalee[/mention]
[mention]M Plus 7[/mention]
[mention]MacDougall[/mention]
[mention]Marmot[/mention]
[mention]Russtifinko[/mention]
[mention]Tsaiah[/mention]
[mention]Turnip Head[/mention]



Fourth straight year I've had the privilege of carrying this banner. [/brag]

[Kylemii]

what was dfs again?

[Sloonei]

what was dfs again?

Daily Fantasy Sports. Epi ran it, and we had a whole section of spectators who got to bet on you all. Then the game was over in the blink of an eye.

[Kylemii]

what was dfs again?

Daily Fantasy Sports. Epi ran it, and we had a whole section of spectators who got to bet on you all. Then the game was over in the blink of an eye.

oh right, the hunger games baseball one

[speedchuck]

sabie votes for me, which prompts a mildly interesting thought: her target the last few days has been luna. Now luna's been nightkilled. Do we think sabie would do that?

The way you are commenting on this makes me want to increase your percentage.

I think it’s worth talking about.

My answer was going to be “yes”, and my reasoning was going to be basically what she just laid out in her post above. If sabie is bad, she sees the writing on the wall. She needs to shake it up. An easy way to do that would be to kill off the person she’s been pushing suspicion against and see if she can shift some blame onto somebody else.

That’s exactly what she’s going for, in her own words.

I agree, but to answer your question in the following post, it also occurred to me that you could have done it in order to make the comment that you did to set up sabie.

I think that's too many levels of WIFOM. You think Sloonei is scum because he's prompting a reason to townread Sabie in order for her to overexplain it... so that Sloonei can double down and catch her in her own fake WIFOM?

I think?

Unless I'm missing your point. I think Sloonei's post is a good look on him.

[speedchuck]

Sabie's pretty much the POE default for today. We have the rest of the scumteam, one after another, and the roads led us here. The case on Sabie consists of: Compatibility with other scumflips, little-to-no strong town content, bad vote placement at critical junctures, the usual stuff. A laying-low scum, presumably, with a Hail Mary plan to push through one last day.

Sound about right?

Well, there are other questions I want to ask today. We've had the easy lynch turn up with results two days in a row. Feels like the scumteam might have discussed and readied this up, and so if we're lynching Sabie, I want to make sure there's no hard-bus alternative we're overlooking.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention], I want to look over your nutella suspicion today. I had cleared her as anti-aligned with DDL, and you disputed that yesterday. Show me why. Let's look into it and see if she'd be capable of twisting this endgame scenario into an easy frame.

[mention]sabie12[/mention] What is your case on Sloonei? I have him mostly cleared because of the way he approached the thread and got stuff moving. For a replacement, his votes have been good, and all his content has served as a way to wake up the thread. It feels like the game would have been over already if Sloonei hadn't posted as he did. But I want to look at everyone today.
[mention]nutella[/mention], I already pinged you but I want your input on this as well.

[DharmaHelper]

@abyssum
@ColinIsCool
@DharmaHelper
@Kylemii
@Lunalee
@M Plus 7
@MacDougall
@Marmot
@Russtifinko
@Tsaiah
@Turnip Head



Fourth straight year I've had the privilege of carrying this banner. [/brag]

I really carried the team tho if you think about it.

[Sloonei]

Chris Tillman deserves that award as much as anyone else.

[nutella]

sabie votes for me, which prompts a mildly interesting thought: her target the last few days has been luna. Now luna's been nightkilled. Do we think sabie would do that?

The way you are commenting on this makes me want to increase your percentage.

I think it’s worth talking about.

My answer was going to be “yes”, and my reasoning was going to be basically what she just laid out in her post above. If sabie is bad, she sees the writing on the wall. She needs to shake it up. An easy way to do that would be to kill off the person she’s been pushing suspicion against and see if she can shift some blame onto somebody else.

That’s exactly what she’s going for, in her own words.

I agree, but to answer your question in the following post, it also occurred to me that you could have done it in order to make the comment that you did to set up sabie.

I think that's too many levels of WIFOM. You think Sloonei is scum because he's prompting a reason to townread Sabie in order for her to overexplain it... so that Sloonei can double down and catch her in her own fake WIFOM?

I think?

Unless I'm missing your point. I think Sloonei's post is a good look on him.

Well no he wouldn't necessarily be counting on her to say anything, he'd just say something like "would sabie do that to throw us off" or something. But don't worry about it too much I don't really think it's the case lol.


Also it occurred to me that there is a possibility luna wasn't the intended target, but I kind of doubt that's what happened. sabie seemed too prepared with the excuse

[Sloonei]

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] my nutella suspicion consists of mostly tinfoil. For her to be bad, she and DDL need to have played a long term hard distancing strategy, which I’m not sure woule have happened in this particular game. If she’s bad, the only reason she would have backed off of SVS yesterday would be for the sake of WIFOM. She did have a few small moments with SVS that gave me pause. I’ll dig them up when I’m on my laptop.

My gut and everything else tells me to go with sabie. I think this game was dead for the first 4 days and scum were just coasting by as we all lynched each other helplessly. I don’t think they felt the need to do anything extraordinary. Them we caught one, then another, and now there’s one exposed baddie left.

Or I’m wring and you or nutella has done something fancy while we were all asleep.

[nutella]

My gut and everything else tells me to go with sabie. I think this game was dead for the first 4 days and scum were just coasting by as we all lynched each other helplessly. I don’t think they felt the need to do anything extraordinary. Them we caught one, then another, and now there’s one exposed baddie left.

Agreed. Occam's razor and all that. I think this game really is that simple especially because as you said they'd been coasting for a while.

[Sloonei]

My problem is that both of you have fooled me hard in the past

[speedchuck]

My gut and everything else tells me to go with sabie. I think this game was dead for the first 4 days and scum were just coasting by as we all lynched each other helplessly. I don’t think they felt the need to do anything extraordinary. Them we caught one, then another, and now there’s one exposed baddie left.

Agreed. Occam's razor and all that. I think this game really is that simple especially because as you said they'd been coasting for a while.

I can't help but tinfoil, though. We've had two days of easy lynches. Maybe that's just because Sabie's been busy and couldn't help her teammates, and they condemned themselves with their own interactions...

No stone left unturned, I guess would be my motto going into today. This comeback has been legendary and dropping the ball now without working through all our options would be awful.

[Sloonei]

My gut and everything else tells me to go with sabie. I think this game was dead for the first 4 days and scum were just coasting by as we all lynched each other helplessly. I don’t think they felt the need to do anything extraordinary. Them we caught one, then another, and now there’s one exposed baddie left.

Agreed. Occam's razor and all that. I think this game really is that simple especially because as you said they'd been coasting for a while.

I can't help but tinfoil, though. We've had two days of easy lynches. Maybe that's just because Sabie's been busy and couldn't help her teammates, and they condemned themselves with their own interactions...

No stone left unturned, I guess would be my motto going into today. This comeback has been legendary and dropping the ball now without working through all our options would be awful.

Why did you clear nutella earlier?

[speedchuck]

My gut and everything else tells me to go with sabie. I think this game was dead for the first 4 days and scum were just coasting by as we all lynched each other helplessly. I don’t think they felt the need to do anything extraordinary. Them we caught one, then another, and now there’s one exposed baddie left.

Agreed. Occam's razor and all that. I think this game really is that simple especially because as you said they'd been coasting for a while.

I can't help but tinfoil, though. We've had two days of easy lynches. Maybe that's just because Sabie's been busy and couldn't help her teammates, and they condemned themselves with their own interactions...

No stone left unturned, I guess would be my motto going into today. This comeback has been legendary and dropping the ball now without working through all our options would be awful.

Why did you clear nutella earlier?

Semi-cleared, based on DDL. I'll quote the posts that led to that in a minute.

[speedchuck]

Relevant things from my nutella ISO, regarding DDL (and apparently SVS, since I looked, she has some strong townreads on SVS pretty consistently):
I snipped out a lot of stuff from that ISO that wasn't about DDL/SVS.

The way you start the sentence with "lol" before throwing shade at someone then saying you won't "necessarily" vote for them triggered my senses.

Come on you have played with me in the last year.

Between this and some later stuff, there is strooong anti-alignment here.

Your tripping sense. SVS is obvtown.
....or is that just the recency bias speaking

Recency bias is the new meta? Thanks, I hate it. Nutella didn't need another waffle flavor.

<snip as time passes with posts not relevant to question>

Nutella's play seems to drop off significantly once the suspicion from mac happens. Around the time Sloonei comes into the game. Some suspicion on Reywas, looks about normal. A push at DDL once he tries to further the Mac suspicion. A push at me. A giant shrug at the townreads in the thread. Nothing that horrible, unless you conflate the motives for the DDL push with more no u at mac's case. Nothing that stands out and reverse pings me into town territory.

Spoiler: show

do you guys seriously want to lynch me for "weasel words" what is it 2016???
I wonder if DDL really believes what he is saying because he has seen me play a lot in the last couple years and he must know that the "lols" etc are a hallmark of my civ style. He's harping a bit too much on this one thing and then going "well whatever her civ and bad metas are too similar so who knows" like he's soft-pushing an easy target but backing off/not taking responsibility

[VOTE: DragonDLuffy] aubergine
His "how likely is it that nutella killed Mac for WIFOM" post just feels fishy to me. Almost like DDL is trying to push that as the narrative of what happened when it is just as likely that scum would kill Mac to frame nutella.

Ehh I think that post makes him look less likely to be responsible. He wouldn't so overtly call it out as being wifom, right?....or would he lol

But on the whole I think Rey looks worse. He is going after me for very shallow reasons and every new post has a new fake-looking take.

[VOTE: reywas] aubergine

I am thinking g is right about ddl. I disagree with him on SVS, I think she is town, but ddl has felt off this whole game, none of his posts feel quite right and I think he is coming from a scummy place. Hope we get this right. [VOTE: ddl] aubergine. And I still would love some elaboration from sloonei about speed. I would be open to a speed vote if there is good reason.

His posts in general have an awkward air about them, and he latched on to easy suspicions such as reywas and myself. This post in particular sticks out:

Man O’Day! Are you kidding me? We’re taking the non-participant option on Day 3 after two consecutive mislynches AND down four confirmed civs? He better flip mafia or else it’s game over for the civs.

I agree. This sounds like the easy path to baddie victory.
[VOTE: Reywas] aubergine
I'll take the non-lazy option. At least there is some precedent to mafia faking meltdowns.

He pats himself on the back for not joining the "lazy" sprityo wagon when the alternative was another townie so easy for him to take advantage of.
Also, holy shit there are only 8 of us left so it's getting down to POE as well.

Although in terms of POE the only players I'm remotely comfortable calling solid townreads are SVS and G-Man, and even those are only the lightest of greens. Any of you could be bad and I'm very uncomfortable.

Nutella and Mac and DDL have already exhausted discussion on this, but I want to know where everyone stands on nutella's alignment, specifically regarding the Enri lynch and the actions surrounding it. I don't want to false binary today, but my vote will likely end up sitting between Nutella and DDL, unless something changes my mind. I don't think they are aligned. Not as scum. Not as town.

And right now (having just finished nutella's ISO) nutella looks weirder. I still need to read DDL's posts more thouroughly

This was before I read DDL's progression/posts and decided to vote there instead.

Nutella's reasons for going after DDL (Does he really believe what he's saying? and The way he approached the Reywas lynch) don't seem like bussing reasons to me. Especially the first one. Here's why:
Nutella went after DDL with the "does he believe what he's saying" as a precursor to her main push on him. She was, I think, the first to really put DDL on the board. And that very first accusation delegitimizes his posts, making it harder for him to defend himself.
I've caught JJJ doing the bussing/distancing thing when he threw accusations at his teammates that could be explained away. But Nutella's accusations toward DDL are deep, regarding his motive. Hard to shake off.

It just doesn't strike me as bussing, because it's early, deep, and insightful. There was no reason for it.
I might be reading too deep into it, but that's what I saw from her end of things.

There's a bit more around this to consider, though.
-During the DDL lynch, nutella was on Luna instead of DDL. With the good suspicion she has above, that looks off, especially on a day where a mislynch would have ended the game. Lack of follow-through. Bad look.
-After setting up the scumread on DDL and townread on SVS (which, if she was playing the long game, she would have been setting up) nutella pivoted on SVS pretty quick. Good look.

I'll take a look at DDL's end of things, but I was already thinking the two were anti-aligned after reading just nutella's ISO.

[speedchuck]

Cynical look at DDL

Ugh, the poll has way too many single votes on it right now.

Maybe you could fix that?

Lol last time someone called Luna out for not practicing what she was preaching she was bad

I don't necessarily suspect her for it here though. Only so much one can do

But we only have 4.5 hours so yeah who should we start grouping votes onto? I'd love to hear thoughts other than my own

The way you start the sentence with "lol" before throwing shade at someone then saying you won't "necessarily" vote for them triggered my senses.

Come on you have played with me in the last year.

Nutella I can't help it, it's an involuntary reaction. You say scummy things and it triggers my scumdar. I have to use all my willpower just to keep it down.

On the one hand, I noted this interaction as well. But DDL downplaying it, even on D1, is off. Why keep it down? Why not go after her and see what happens? It's D1.

This is normally the point where I'd be reading a reasonable LC defense and looking for a more serious wagon but LC hasn't posted again yet.

What do I do? I don't wanna pull the trigger on Nutella either.

Why not? Is DDL usually this hesitant to step out and DO things? And is he afraid of losing a valuable player, or of the repercussions?
I know it could be the former, but despite the joking tone, these posts feel like walking on glass.

Ugh, the poll has way too many single votes on it right now.

Maybe you could fix that?

Lol last time someone called Luna out for not practicing what she was preaching she was bad

I don't necessarily suspect her for it here though. Only so much one can do

But we only have 4.5 hours so yeah who should we start grouping votes onto? I'd love to hear thoughts other than my own

In the above post this reads like a Mafia player latching on to a town made case. She is also exhibiting "the Russ" by casting doubt in both directions. This serves to pacify both Speechuck and Lunalee towards her at the same time. It's made even more genius by the fact that speedchuck wasn't even really explicitly suspecting lunalee, and nutella escalated it to that in a way to make it seem like speedchuck did. What you do here as mafia is go back and blame speedchuck when lunalee flips town. Not outright, but "speedchuck pointed out that she was being hypocritical and I agreed" is a good cover for raising a bad case.

You can see in the below post that DDL saw something samesuch in the post. He simplified it down to her use of the term "lol". I think he felt something else and struggled to quantify it. Speak to that for me DDL.

It's not just the "lol", it's the whole package of word usage. I'm going a little Epi here, but I believe he is right when he says people tend to put specific words to make their points feel weaker than they are, so they don't really take responsibility for it. Hence the adverbs thing.

Nutella wants to throw shade at people but she also wants to let us know she is not sure about it. Fine. But she colors it with "lol"s and emotes to mae it look more friendly than she should considering the fact she is, you know, throwing shade at people. There is a disconnect between the tone and the actions.

First sentence she opens with a friendly lol then attacks Luna on meta. Then second sentence she backs down, davalues her own post, and finishes it with a friendly emote. Then third sentence she passes the ball to other people and asks for a wagon. It could be the Luna wagon she just offered, it could be someone else.

I could see a civ doing everything I just described, especially a careful civ like nutella, but I could also see the baddie line of thought behind the whole thing. I think it applies to the rest of the case you build on nutella, too. That's why she is so hard to read, her civ and bad metas are similar.

When Mac goes after the same post, DDL doubles down and then still tiptoes. Somehow. So DDL is doing the same thing that he's accusing nutella of, in a way. Only she masks it in humor and he in hesitance and 'careful' play. Which, of course, it could be.

Guys how likely it is that a baddie nutella would off Mac to silence him?

WIFOM much?

I don't think the nutella case was serious. It has been a consistent thing, and right here is where DDL tries to bring it to the masses. And like everything else in this game, it gets ignored.
We've been sitting on town lynches for days, so like with Sloon/nutella, I have to question whether this was worth doing. It is worth trying to suggest a lynch when the game is self-destructing perfectly fine on its own?
But then again, this is a pretty opportunistic take, right or wrong. Not a difficult thing to throw out there.

do you guys seriously want to lynch me for "weasel words" what is it 2016???

I wonder if DDL really believes what he is saying because he has seen me play a lot in the last couple years and he must know that the "lols" etc are a hallmark of my civ style. He's harping a bit too much on this one thing and then going "well whatever her civ and bad metas are too similar so who knows" like he's soft-pushing an easy target but backing off/not taking responsibility

And what is a hallmark of your baddie style, then? Because last I checked you also do all those things when you are bad. Mac is right, you are not that obvious to read.

I'm not soft pushing, I'm putting all possibilities on the table. The way you are acting is perfectly reasonable for a baddie to act.

You say you are always on the fence, which is true, but then you use that as a shield to act the same way as bad and win games because no one wants to lynch "on the fence" nutella anymore.

Meta can go die in a fire.
This post doesn't look all that bad, in isolation. It's true. It's also really self-aware, and so it could be made from either perspective.

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

I proposed a nutella lynch. People didn't wanted. They wanted you or sprityo. I waited till the end to see which one to change to. You looked like the better wagon.

I'm not a super-hero, I can't guess who the scum is and force other people to vote for them.

Reywas didn't end up getting lynched, and DDL's follow-through the following day didn't look great. But then, there were a lor of people that ended up on Reywas. Hindsight bias here. My promised cynicism taints these posts, when really we'd have to look at Reywas' behavior. Obviously some of us thought Rey was bad or we wouldn't have voted there. If you look at these thinking Rey is bad, DDL's posts look a little low-effort but not horrible.

From DDL's side, though, the nutella/DDL interactions look somewhat team-compatible. DDL's tip-toeing, and then blaming the rest of town when they didn't want to lynch nutella... DDL doesn't want to commit. Either because he fears Miss Best Civilian 2019 or because he doesn't want to lynch a teammate. Given nutella's ISO, I lean former on that. But I see room for the latter.

So that's where my tentative town-clear on nutella came from. Occam still points to Sabie, but I don't want to have regrets.

[sabie12]

Idk I didnt really have a major case on sloonei just that i know I'm civ and hes hardcore pushing a lynch against me so I had put my vote there. The remaining scum has to find someone to push a lynch against that isnt them. Sloonei has been working on building a case against me and the person I was suspecting ends up getting killed off. I realize that's not great reasoning necessarily but that was my thought process.Nutellas issue is that she was last minute trying to go against the svs lynch when no one else was so I'd also be willing to vote her.

Luna was killed off and I dont see what I ever would have had to gain from that if it were me that did it. Why would I ever do that? It would be a really stupid decision on my part and I dont know why people think I would have done that. If I were bad why wouldn't I have killed off someone who was suspecting me like sloonei rather than someone I was suspicious of? Idk it just seems silly to me. Sucks that no one ever listens to me so we're gonna lose. My nonchalance this game has been more due to personal life stress. Also as I said if I had had teammates I could have been way more sure about what I was doing. I wouldn't have been so lost and confused. I mean everyone will see I wasn't lying in the end so I guess that's all I can take solace in.

[Sloonei]

Idk I didnt really have a major case on sloonei just that i know I'm civ and hes hardcore pushing a lynch against me so I had put my vote there. The remaining scum has to find someone to push a lynch against that isnt them. Sloonei has been working on building a case against me and the person I was suspecting ends up getting killed off. I realize that's not great reasoning necessarily but that was my thought process.Nutellas issue is that she was last minute trying to go against the svs lynch when no one else was so I'd also be willing to vote her.

Luna was killed off and I dont see what I ever would have had to gain from that if it were me that did it. Why would I ever do that? It would be a really stupid decision on my part and I dont know why people think I would have done that. If I were bad why wouldn't I have killed off someone who was suspecting me like sloonei rather than someone I was suspicious of? Idk it just seems silly to me. Sucks that no one ever listens to me so we're gonna lose. My nonchalance this game has been more due to personal life stress. Also as I said if I had had teammates I could have been way more sure about what I was doing. I wouldn't have been so lost and confused. I mean everyone will see I wasn't lying in the end so I guess that's all I can take solace in.

I don't think it is true that I have been "hardcore pushing" against you. I ISO'd everybody in the game and made a deliberate effort to give everybody equal attention. The end result was a suspicion of you.

You've repeatedly said that it would make no sense for you to kill off luna, but in saying that you are providing a clear motivation why a baddie sabie would kill luna. Also, I don't see much reason for any of the rest of us to kill luna either. I think she was a more viable lynch option than any of us coming into today (generally speaking. I was close to being comfortable town reading her, but there had been more consistent suspicion against her than any of myself, nutella, or speedchuck). I am having trouble grasping the theory that I killed luna to somehow frame you. How does that frame you if another part of your argument is that killing luna is not something you would do?

[sabie12]

Sorry that I really am not as good at putting together arguments and copy pasting a bunch of old posts and writing a bunch of tldr posts on reads of every player. I seriously do commend you on being able to do that. I don't have a computer or the mind to do it so I got nothing. All I can tell you guys is that it's not me and I've literally (Epignosis' favorite word) never lied about anything this game. If no one believes me then no one believes me. Me arguing the same thing over and over does nothing for me. Just like in world asunder where people thought I was bad because of a statement being interpreted wrong. I was a civ then and am now.

[Sloonei]

Sorry that I really am not as good at putting together arguments and copy pasting a bunch of old posts and writing a bunch of tldr posts on reads of every player. I seriously do commend you on being able to do that. I don't have a computer or the mind to do it so I got nothing. All I can tell you guys is that it's not me and I've literally (Epignosis' favorite word) never lied about anything this game. If no one believes me then no one believes me. Me arguing the same thing over and over does nothing for me. Just like in world asunder where people thought I was bad because of a statement being interpreted wrong. I was a civ then and am now.

I certainly don't intend to criticize the quality of your play. I've played only a few games with you recently, but I very much enjoy and appreciate your presence in these games ( ). But right here and right now, I simply think you're not aligned with the civilians. I've shared my reasons for feeling this way. My goal at the moment is to work with you to try to understand your perspective in this game so that, if I am wrong, I can wrap my head around that fact and figure out the correct answer to the question of who to lynch. I have questions for you, and I'm not asking them to bury you or to make you feel insignificant; I am asking them because I want to hear your answers. Or see them, or whatever.

You've suggested that I killed Luna to make you look bad. In what way would me killing luna make you look bad?
If we assume that I am town and you are town, then one of speedchuck or nutella must be bad. Which one is it and why?
What would you say is the best reason to town read each of the three of us?

I sincerely hope to hear your answers to these questions. If you're a civilian, then the only chance we have of turning this thing around is if we work together to figure out where we should go.

[sabie12]

I don't know who killed Luna or why they did. I initially was like oh people qill think it was me because I suspected her but then thinking more on it I was like wait that would be dumb and wouldnt make sense. I am probably more suspicious of nutella than speed because of the svs lynch. I guess sloonei you just play how you always do. Talking a lot and try to get other people talking. I mean I've gathered that's just your play style. As the day initiated and I was the suspect I thought maybe sloonei is setting me up. Also, wasn't saying anyone was dissing my playstyle more so explaining that due to not having a computer, my posts aren't always as long and detailed.

[Sloonei]

I don't know who killed Luna or why they did. I initially was like oh people qill think it was me because I suspected her but then thinking more on it I was like wait that would be dumb and wouldnt make sense. I am probably more suspicious of nutella than speed because of the svs lynch. I guess sloonei you just play how you always do. Talking a lot and try to get other people talking. I mean I've gathered that's just your play style. As the day initiated and I was the suspect I thought maybe sloonei is setting me up. Also, wasn't saying anyone was dissing my playstyle more so explaining that due to not having a computer, my posts aren't always as long and detailed.

I've argued that nutella's switch off of SVS is a good look. She had no reason to do that if she's bad, and the likelihood that anybody else was going to be lynched yesterday was slim at best. The only reason scum nutella does that is so that people can make the argument that I'm making right now, but that's superfluous. Once again, there's no reason for her to need to do that. She was sitting cozy all day long.

[Sloonei]

I meant to put a question on the end of that for you, [mention]sabie12[/mention]. How do you respond to that argument?

[nutella]

Sabie has also dropped the "if only I had teammates to help me" line like 4+ times at this point. I will feel really bad if it turns out she is being honest after all but the repeated excuses really just strengthen my belief that she is mafia.

[Sloonei]

My tinfoil against speedchuck has to do with his behavior today: he enters the day least likely of all to be lynched. He killed Luna because she’s the most likely to see through his suit of bull. He acts all concerned by peppering us with questions today just to pad his image while we continue to convince ourselves thay sabie is the best lynch.

[sabie12]

I meant to put a question on the end of that for you, @sabie12. How do you respond to that argument?

I dont know really. I just am going to feel really bad if I get mislynched and then the civs lose. Then people will be all well if only you tried harder and did this instead of that. I don't want everyone to be upset with me because it'll be my fault we lose.


As to the point sloonei just made I have suspected speed before and have voted for him before. It is still possible he could be bad. If sloonei isnt bad and nutellas only real thing is the voting against svs. I guess i can see how mamaymamaybmamaymamaybe she thought the svs lynch was too easy I almost thought that too. maybe we should be looking at speed?

[sabie12]

My phone did that weird thing to the word maybe haha it wasn't supposed to look like that

[nutella]

My tinfoil against speedchuck has to do with his behavior today: he enters the day least likely of all to be lynched. He killed Luna because she’s the most likely to see through his suit of bull. He acts all concerned by peppering us with questions today just to pad his image while we continue to convince ourselves thay sabie is the best lynch.

Yeaaaaah maybe I should be giving this possibility more consideration.

[speedchuck]

My tinfoil against speedchuck has to do with his behavior today: he enters the day least likely of all to be lynched. He killed Luna because she’s the most likely to see through his suit of bull. He acts all concerned by peppering us with questions today just to pad his image while we continue to convince ourselves thay sabie is the best lynch.

It sounds more like you're tinfoiling me based on the Luna nightkill happening.

[Sloonei]

My tinfoil against speedchuck has to do with his behavior today: he enters the day least likely of all to be lynched. He killed Luna because she’s the most likely to see through his suit of bull. He acts all concerned by peppering us with questions today just to pad his image while we continue to convince ourselves thay sabie is the best lynch.

It sounds more like you're tinfoiling me based on the Luna nightkill happening.

I have to start somewhere.

But it was actually your series of questions for each of us that got me thinking. If your bad, your path to victory is very easy. All you need to do is keep up the appearance of a townie for ~24 hours. The easiest way to do that is to ask everyone questions and appear engaged.

[nutella]

Given speed's role in both scum lynches, if he's bad here he'd really be living up to that there award he done got. It's on the table.

[speedchuck]

My tinfoil against speedchuck has to do with his behavior today: he enters the day least likely of all to be lynched. He killed Luna because she’s the most likely to see through his suit of bull. He acts all concerned by peppering us with questions today just to pad his image while we continue to convince ourselves thay sabie is the best lynch.

It sounds more like you're tinfoiling me based on the Luna nightkill happening.

I have to start somewhere.

But it was actually your series of questions for each of us that got me thinking. If your bad, your path to victory is very easy. All you need to do is keep up the appearance of a townie for ~24 hours. The easiest way to do that is to ask everyone questions and appear engaged.

As opposed to a townie, who would be legitimately engaged?

I don't mind you looking at me. I'm looking at you guys too. Let me know if you have questions, I'll do my best to answer. I'd like to think I've been pretty transparent this game.

[speedchuck]

Dragon D. Luffy - 3 Voters: G-Man, speedchuck, Lunalee
Lunalee - 3 Voters: S~V~S, Sloonei, nutella
nutella - 1 Voter: Dragon D. Luffy
speedchuck - 1 Voters: sabie12

This is the messiest vote all game. A tie at MYLO between scum and not scum. I wasn't around for deadline, and I don't think Sabie was either. So [mention]Sloonei[/mention] [mention]nutella[/mention] know you've stated your stance on Luna, but in general what made you think it was okay to tie the lynch at MYLO? Why ignore wagon consolidation?

[speedchuck]

I meant to put a question on the end of that for you, sabie12. How do you respond to that argument?

I dont know really. I just am going to feel really bad if I get mislynched and then the civs lose. Then people will be all well if only you tried harder and did this instead of that. I don't want everyone to be upset with me because it'll be my fault we lose.


As to the point sloonei just made I have suspected speed before and have voted for him before. It is still possible he could be bad. If sloonei isnt bad and nutellas only real thing is the voting against svs. I guess i can see how mamaymamaybmamaymamaybe she thought the svs lynch was too easy I almost thought that too. maybe we should be looking at speed?

This sentiment in the first paragraph rings really true. I hate being the MYLO mislynch. I've been trying to work on not being a jerk at endgame, but a good example would be the recent game SPACE FORCE. I just about went mental because I was, for some time, being shoehorned into the MYLO mislynch basket. It wasn't pretty.

Nutella has had the opposite reaction as me. I think Sabie sounds really genuine in her plea against being mislynched. It's not "Y'all are wrong and are going to feel really bad," no blame, no strong NO U postings. Just a few statements about how much it sucks and how she has no plan to deal with it.

I feel like SVS or DDL would have at least left Sabie a clue or some help in BTSC at some point, or something to make this endgame feel less disjointed and unconnected. Just a feeling.

[sabie12]

In that space force game I might add I was right about dizzy being the other baddie and no one believed me because I voted dizzy and everyone else voted quin who got lynched and flipped bad. People gave me flack for that and then I ended up getting killed off and then ultimately we ended up losing in the end.

[speedchuck]

In that space force game I might add I was right about dizzy being the other baddie and no one believed me because I voted dizzy and everyone else voted quin who got lynched and flipped bad. People gave me flack for that and then I ended up getting killed off and then ultimately we ended up losing in the end.

Yeah, that was my bad. That whole game was my bad. I'm loud.

[Sloonei]

Dragon D. Luffy - 3 Voters: G-Man, speedchuck, Lunalee
Lunalee - 3 Voters: S~V~S, Sloonei, nutella
nutella - 1 Voter: Dragon D. Luffy
speedchuck - 1 Voters: sabie12

This is the messiest vote all game. A tie at MYLO between scum and not scum. I wasn't around for deadline, and I don't think Sabie was either. So @Sloonei @nutella know you've stated your stance on Luna, but in general what made you think it was okay to tie the lynch at MYLO? Why ignore wagon consolidation?

Wagon consolidation can suck an egg when I suspect scum manipulation at MYLO. DDL received votes from just about everybody with zero resistance and I panicked. I was convinced he was the easy mislynch scapegoat.

When I moved to luna, as I’ve said, it was more for the sake of generating discussion on somebody else rather than a specific target (luna). But the votes that followed stuck there and at the end of the day I thought she was our best bet to avoid the obvious DDL mislynch.

[speedchuck]

Dragon D. Luffy - 3 Voters: G-Man, speedchuck, Lunalee
Lunalee - 3 Voters: S~V~S, Sloonei, nutella
nutella - 1 Voter: Dragon D. Luffy
speedchuck - 1 Voters: sabie12

This is the messiest vote all game. A tie at MYLO between scum and not scum. I wasn't around for deadline, and I don't think Sabie was either. So @Sloonei @nutella know you've stated your stance on Luna, but in general what made you think it was okay to tie the lynch at MYLO? Why ignore wagon consolidation?

Wagon consolidation can suck an egg when I suspect scum manipulation at MYLO. DDL received votes from just about everybody with zero resistance and I panicked. I was convinced he was the easy mislynch scapegoat.

When I moved to luna, as I’ve said, it was more for the sake of generating discussion on somebody else rather than a specific target (luna). But the votes that followed stuck there and at the end of the day I thought she was our best bet to avoid the obvious DDL mislynch.

I don't agree with the gameplay style, but that's neither here nor there I guess.

[Sloonei]

Dragon D. Luffy - 3 Voters: G-Man, speedchuck, Lunalee
Lunalee - 3 Voters: S~V~S, Sloonei, nutella
nutella - 1 Voter: Dragon D. Luffy
speedchuck - 1 Voters: sabie12

This is the messiest vote all game. A tie at MYLO between scum and not scum. I wasn't around for deadline, and I don't think Sabie was either. So @Sloonei @nutella know you've stated your stance on Luna, but in general what made you think it was okay to tie the lynch at MYLO? Why ignore wagon consolidation?

Wagon consolidation can suck an egg when I suspect scum manipulation at MYLO. DDL received votes from just about everybody with zero resistance and I panicked. I was convinced he was the easy mislynch scapegoat.

When I moved to luna, as I’ve said, it was more for the sake of generating discussion on somebody else rather than a specific target (luna). But the votes that followed stuck there and at the end of the day I thought she was our best bet to avoid the obvious DDL mislynch.

I don't agree with the gameplay style, but that's neither here nor there I guess.

I think it’s relevant. What would you have had me do?

[speedchuck]

Dragon D. Luffy - 3 Voters: G-Man, speedchuck, Lunalee
Lunalee - 3 Voters: S~V~S, Sloonei, nutella
nutella - 1 Voter: Dragon D. Luffy
speedchuck - 1 Voters: sabie12

This is the messiest vote all game. A tie at MYLO between scum and not scum. I wasn't around for deadline, and I don't think Sabie was either. So @Sloonei @nutella know you've stated your stance on Luna, but in general what made you think it was okay to tie the lynch at MYLO? Why ignore wagon consolidation?

Wagon consolidation can suck an egg when I suspect scum manipulation at MYLO. DDL received votes from just about everybody with zero resistance and I panicked. I was convinced he was the easy mislynch scapegoat.

When I moved to luna, as I’ve said, it was more for the sake of generating discussion on somebody else rather than a specific target (luna). But the votes that followed stuck there and at the end of the day I thought she was our best bet to avoid the obvious DDL mislynch.

I don't agree with the gameplay style, but that's neither here nor there I guess.

I think it’s relevant. What would you have had me do?

In your situation? Attempt the very thing you attempted, and then if you were causing a tie that scum could easily take advantage of, move onto whatever wagon denied scum control of the lynch. Unless you were nearly convinced that DDL was town and Luna was scum, in which case, I'd have been super loud, campaigning, mentioning people to try and get them in thread to move at least one vote and avoid the tie.

Granted, I may be underestimating how strongly you believed DDL was town. I don't think avoiding a tie is a good reason to vote for someone you read town, if that's what you're getting at.

[Sloonei]

Why is it his job?

I’m the mayor!

I put a +1 vote on luna. I figured I was in control of the tie. Thankfully I was not.

[speedchuck]

Why is it his job?

I’m the mayor!

I put a +1 vote on luna. I figured I was in control of the tie. Thankfully I was not.

... huh.

Well, that changes things significantly. I have little beef with your action. From your point of view, DDL wouln't vote for himself, everyone else had made their choice, and the best Sabie could do was tie the action (possibly revealing herself as scum saving Luna). Not bad.

I never catch these hints.

I wonder how DDL got lynched. It wasn't me adding an extra vote.

[speedchuck]

Luna and G-Man were both vanilla, too. Unless they were given something, they couldn't have tied that vote.

SVS wouldn't have added a -1.

Either Nutella secretly subtracted from the Luna lynch, or shenanigans happened. I'm going to look back at the scum flips.

[speedchuck]

Welp. I'm confused to hell.

[mention]nutella[/mention] Are you self-aligned?

[nutella]

Why is it his job?

I’m the mayor!

I put a +1 vote on luna. I figured I was in control of the tie. Thankfully I was not.

I know of another factor which must have influenced it.

[speedchuck]

If nutella caused the null spot on that lynch then she can't be scum.

linki: well okay but I'm still confused