The Syndicate

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:18 pm Care to elaborate about what you mean when ya say "dissonance"? Are the tiers ordered?

The tiers themselves are ordered, but the names within each tier are not.

The "dissonance" refers to my inability to come to a solid conclusion with how I sort the names. There's a clash between gut and brain with you and ilario especially. Given the current game state it strikes me as inherently more likely than it did 24 hours ago (beyond just the sig flip) that one+ of you is mafia. Otherwise I would have to be wrong about one+ of my stronger town reads.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:09 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:03 pm [VOTE: johanna] aubergine

Why

I thought her entrance this phase looked stage. SPF was not a strange kill choice in my estimation, and Johanna's declaration of the opposite rang hollow to me, as did her speculation into why the choice was made, though I was probably already inclined to read it that way so I may not be assessing it fairly.
I also thought her first big post of the day was a Big Salad. Falcon already commented on it in a similar manner: she throws out a lot of names and describes things about those people, but the post itself does not say a ton.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:21 pm

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:18 pm Care to elaborate about what you mean when ya say "dissonance"? Are the tiers ordered?

The tiers themselves are ordered, but the names within each tier are not.

The "dissonance" refers to my inability to come to a solid conclusion with how I sort the names. There's a clash between gut and brain with you and ilario especially. Given the current game state it strikes me as inherently more likely than it did 24 hours ago (beyond just the sig flip) that one+ of you is mafia. Otherwise I would have to be wrong about one+ of my stronger town reads.

What are the anti-town arguments for Son of Anarch and Ilario?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:21 pm

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:18 pm Care to elaborate about what you mean when ya say "dissonance"? Are the tiers ordered?

The tiers themselves are ordered, but the names within each tier are not.

The "dissonance" refers to my inability to come to a solid conclusion with how I sort the names. There's a clash between gut and brain with you and ilario especially. Given the current game state it strikes me as inherently more likely than it did 24 hours ago (beyond just the sig flip) that one+ of you is mafia. Otherwise I would have to be wrong about one+ of my stronger town reads.

Well Jimmy boy, maybe you are wrong on one of your stronger townreads 'cause I'm definitely town here and I'm pretty sure my boy ilario is also town. But to tell ya the truth, even though I'm havin' my doubts on Sloonei, I can't fault ya for townreadin' the guy here. So I gotta say... go with your heart and your brain. If I'm bein' bamboozled by ilario I take responsibility for that, but right now I don't think I am. Maybe this is just a super simple game and we got it wrong day 1, yeah? I feel like we haven't heard enough from a lot of the people in the POE.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:22 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:21 pm

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:18 pm Care to elaborate about what you mean when ya say "dissonance"? Are the tiers ordered?

The tiers themselves are ordered, but the names within each tier are not.

The "dissonance" refers to my inability to come to a solid conclusion with how I sort the names. There's a clash between gut and brain with you and ilario especially. Given the current game state it strikes me as inherently more likely than it did 24 hours ago (beyond just the sig flip) that one+ of you is mafia. Otherwise I would have to be wrong about one+ of my stronger town reads.

What are the anti-town arguments for Son of Anarch and Ilario?

For the purposes of this immediate dialogue, I can't provide anything compelling. Many an analysis would be more fruitful. From working memory: Son of Anarch just seems stiff in general sometimes* and has been slower than I'd like to accept the good indicators about Lime Coke. ilario was very quick to lock SoA into a town slot, and I am not sure it was warranted at the time. There's some pocketing potential. I realize this isn't smoking gun stuff.

*SoA, you'd asked me about this at some earlier point. I don't think it would be especially fruitful to pull out posts and say "this one is stilted/stiff", because that's an entirely subjective notion that doesn't provide you with any useful means of defending yourself. View it instead as a general assessment of your emotion level (pretty low) and agreeability -- sometimes it reaches a little beyond the boundaries of what I expect from The Typical Town Player. I don't know you at all, so some of these notions I would prefer to assess on a personal level via meta but with you I haven't that capacity.

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:25 pm Well Jimmy boy, maybe you are wrong on one of your stronger townreads 'cause I'm definitely town here and I'm pretty sure my boy ilario is also town. But to tell ya the truth, even though I'm havin' my doubts on Sloonei, I can't fault ya for townreadin' the guy here. So I gotta say... go with your heart and your brain. If I'm bein' bamboozled by ilario I take responsibility for that, but right now I don't think I am. Maybe this is just a super simple game and we got it wrong day 1, yeah? I feel like we haven't heard enough from a lot of the people in the POE.

As it happens, when I formed my list, I sided with my gut. Whatever the game state might suggest to me, you both look more town than not -- thus you're in a more-town-than-not tier. It's not legally obligatory that there be mafia among you. The original POE could have been fine.

I'm just working through some initial uncertainty with this start of day. Something feels off, but I can't be certain whether it's more a product of something being off, maybe NAA forcing the thread into that perception with his views of Sloonei and I (and others in my POE), or just me reading the room incorrectly and neither of those is true.

No worries. I just don't see the need to complicate the game until necessary. I'm an agreeable enough guy, sure. Heck, me even writin' this post is pretty agreeable, wouldn't ya think? But I'll tell ya what, bein' scum and bein' agreeable here serves me no purpose. I prefer to be in the center of the action as wolf, gettin' lots of blood on my hands whenever possible. Probably a bit hard to believe, eh? I'm pretty chill right now, after all. That's because I've got no teeth like those scary wolves, heh

If one of my stronger town reads is incorrect, I'd look first to Lime Coke. I think he's town, but I acknowledge it's my least consensus read in that pile and maybe other people are more correct than I am.

I have an idea about how I can start to sort this thing. I will do it later. I won't say what it is. This post is pointless.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:39 pm I have an idea about how I can start to sort this thing. I will do it later. I won't say what it is. This post is pointless.

impending exercise hype

How do you feel about the game right now, Sloonei?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:44 pm How do you feel about the game right now, Sloonei?

There is much work to be done. I don't believe we were wildly off base yesterday, but I would like to review everyone to see who, if anyone, has been fooling us.
I'm currently working on doing that.

impending review hype

I town-read ilario based on energy early Day 1, but my Review has turned up a questionable early moment in his ISO:
ilario instantly agrees with my made-up TSP slander and slaps a town read on me in response. But then when I tell everyone that I was making junk up, he says "ah well you're town for other reasons anyway."

@ilario why did you "agree" with my early assertion about TSP? What is your experience playing with him and how familiar are you with TSP? Why did you view me as town in response to that post?

Marmot's silence is deafening

I have been reviewing ISOs mostly in silence.

Dolby is an interesting case. I think my review of his posts made me feel slightly better about him, but not in any concrete way. Some of his early posts that gave me particular feelings: I think I like this post because I like the conscious effort to adopt a different approach to get involved. This really only works because Dolby showed good follow-through on his pledge to read ISOs on suggestion. I can see this being a town player who was genuinely trying to wrap his head around the game, but found that a straight catch-up was frustratingly unhelpful (#downwithketchup).
However, I'm not certain about this reading of this post because it could also be a mafier whose main goal is appearing engaged, and it is easier to do that when he has a specific ISO to sink his teeth into.
I also liked Dolby's whole handling of what he dubbed the "triad". He could have treated any one of us with some level of skepticism. I would expect a mafia member to want to sow discord in that grouping. But dolby restrained his caution to a mere warning about trusting too much, but did not engage in any sort of unfavorable reading of any of us individually. In fact, he was willing to acknowledge a slight inclination toward reading Jay and I as town.

I would put dolby as a mild town read right now if I were compiling a reads list.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:42 pm Marmot's silence is deafening

Has anyone here earned a prestigious Falcon Town Read yet?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:45 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:42 pm Marmot's silence is deafening

Has anyone here earned a prestigious Falcon Town Read yet?

What makes you think they're prestigious?


My reads are shit until they're awesome.



Also, yes.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:50 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:45 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:42 pm Marmot's silence is deafening

Has anyone here earned a prestigious Falcon Town Read yet?

What makes you think they're prestigious?


My reads are shit until they're awesome.


Also, yes.

This sentence:

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:51 pm Cuz TR's should be earned, not thrown about like candy at a kid's birthday party.

Also, who?

I don't know if you're doing these in any order Sloonei, but a fresh review of Lime Coke would be helpful to me. My views are rather reliant upon gradual progressions of reading his posts live, and that can create biases that snowball. If you're doing other stuff, do your thing obviously.

I've skimmed through the ISOs purely looking for mechanical things, no content analysis (I don't know if it's needed actually)

Most town leaning evidence (in order):

JJJ

Sloonei

Dyslexicon

Dolby Falcon Marmott

LimeCoke Ilario

TSP

Johanna

G-man

Normally, I would suggest killing from the bottom up, but Ilario did something this game that I almost exclusively do as mafia, so I'm going to go look at some other games and check.

Does anyone have a D1 VC?

Sig (6): jay, sloonei, spf, ilario, dizzy, lime
G-man (2): axe, tsp
Dizzy (1): sig
Falcon (1): son of anarch
Ilario (1): falcon
Axe (1): Dolby
Tsp (1): Marmot

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:57 pm I don't know if you're doing these in any order Sloonei, but a fresh review of Lime Coke would be helpful to me. My views are rather reliant upon gradual progressions of reading his posts live, and that can create biases that snowball. If you're doing other stuff, do your thing obviously.

I was not planning on offering comments on everybody just yet. I read or scanned all the ISOs to give myself a better understanding of what everyone has done to this point. I have nothing pressing to say about Lime Coke just yet, but he is somebody I would like to engage with some more this phase.

I can give him another look to see if I have any particular questions or comments.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:52 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:50 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:45 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:42 pm Marmot's silence is deafening

Has anyone here earned a prestigious Falcon Town Read yet?

What makes you think they're prestigious?


My reads are shit until they're awesome.


Also, yes.

This sentence:

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:51 pm Cuz TR's should be earned, not thrown about like candy at a kid's birthday party.

Also, who?

Haha, well I'd hardly call an earned TR from myself prestigious, tho I'm mildly flattered.


Yourself and NAA are my town core atm. There's 2 others on the periphery, tho I'd rather not say who right now.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:47 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:46 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:05 am Thorough read of what I missed.

I like both Marmot and Dolby.

They can be number 7 and 8 in my townreads.

I'm satisfied with my list.

Why do you read them town?

I really wish I could remember but I actually don't. It was probably tone read at the most.

I do not read this forgetfulness as suspicious. Sometimes that happens. However, I do wish there was a more concrete explanation for these reads. That would be extremely helpful.

If I have a criticism to make against Lime Coke's posts on Day 1, it's that I do not see him working very hard to find suspects. He has plenty to say, but he seems to be offering mostly favorable or inconclusive stances on folks without a ton of skepticism.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:06 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:56 pm interesting stuff. i have some immediate thoughts about why i may have been poisoned, but i'm going to keep them to myself for now. it's kind of nice that i get to spend these 48 hours hunting with no tinfoil/suspicion against me whatsoever, minus the dying at the end of the day part :P

What's your current perspective/confidence level regarding ilario?

i will need to re-read illario before i answer that, but i would like to make it known that i was theorizing quite strongly overnight that there was a wolf between lime coke/illario. i have never seen lime coke and illario fail to find each other on d1 when they are villagers before, and illario remaining consistently suspicious of lime coke throughout the day as LC continued to townread him made me think that the dynamic would not be pure. i also estimate that the Epicmafians might be more likely to kill me than the other players here, but that is faulty reasoning, so i'm not weighing it too heavily

I would agree with NAA's list at least insofar that if I had to vote immediately to decide the day phase it'd be for G-Man.

It's hard to be inspired by that given the post count, but I don't care that's where I am.

my capacity will unfortunately be fairly limited today. the best time for me to read/post thoughts will likely be tomorrow evening. if there are any specific opinions/takes that you'd like to hear from me before my tragic death, feel free to @ me and i'll make it a priority

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:06 pm Yourself and NAA are my town core atm. There's 2 others on the periphery, tho I'd rather not say who right now.

How on god's green earth did the two of us, and only the two of us, earn this position?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:09 pm my capacity will unfortunately be fairly limited today. the best time for me to read/post thoughts will likely be tomorrow evening. if there are any specific opinions/takes that you'd like to hear from me before my tragic death, feel free to @ me and i'll make it a priority

Johanna read plz

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:06 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:56 pm interesting stuff. i have some immediate thoughts about why i may have been poisoned, but i'm going to keep them to myself for now. it's kind of nice that i get to spend these 48 hours hunting with no tinfoil/suspicion against me whatsoever, minus the dying at the end of the day part :P

What's your current perspective/confidence level regarding ilario?

i will need to re-read illario before i answer that, but i would like to make it known that i was theorizing quite strongly overnight that there was a wolf between lime coke/illario. i have never seen lime coke and illario fail to find each other on d1 when they are villagers before, and illario remaining consistently suspicious of lime coke throughout the day as LC continued to townread him made me think that the dynamic would not be pure. i also estimate that the Epicmafians might be more likely to kill me than the other players here, but that is faulty reasoning, so i'm not weighing it too heavily

I'll be honest: when I saw you were poisoned my brain went straight to ilario. That's not fair and perhaps not wise either, but it happened.

If Lime Coke is indeed town as I suspect, I think that's a problem for anyone that has been hesitant to accept that view. Losing a POE mischop suspect hurts any mafia. I don't actually remember right now precisely how ilario has handled Lime Coke, so I will take this with a grain of salt until I can dig deeper. Thanks for answering.

Whenever you have a chance @staypositivefriend I'd appreciate your view of NAA. It'll carry fewer biases than I suffer.

@JaggedJimmyJay

If I were a betting man, I'd say all of the mafia are in: TSP, Ilario, G-man, Johanna, LimeCoke

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:09 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:06 pm Yourself and NAA are my town core atm. There's 2 others on the periphery, tho I'd rather not say who right now.

How on god's green earth did the two of us, and only the two of us, earn this position?

It's a good town core.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:09 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:06 pm Yourself and NAA are my town core atm. There's 2 others on the periphery, tho I'd rather not say who right now.

How on god's green earth did the two of us, and only the two of us, earn this position?

I find you both have a very forthright tone, and you're both approaching the game in what I perceive as a direct manner...like you're both making reads that make sense


JJJ by comparison I do not find towny at all.
I find he's pulling a lot of threads in a game solvey attempt, but almost everything is hedged and doesn't actually take a stance.

A lot of "here's my reads, but if I'm wrong it's probably here" kinda stuff

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:30 pm JJJ by comparison I do not find towny at all.
I find he's pulling a lot of threads in a game solvey attempt, but almost everything is hedged and doesn't actually take a stance.

A lot of "here's my reads, but if I'm wrong it's probably here" kinda stuff

You just described Jay's town process pretty succinctly, but you prefaced it by saying it is "not towny at all."

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:28 pm @JaggedJimmyJay

If I were a betting man, I'd say all of the mafia are in: TSP, Ilario, G-man, Johanna, LimeCoke

I will be a little surprised if this list does not include multiple mafia members. I would also be surprised if it contains all four of them.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:06 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:56 pm interesting stuff. i have some immediate thoughts about why i may have been poisoned, but i'm going to keep them to myself for now. it's kind of nice that i get to spend these 48 hours hunting with no tinfoil/suspicion against me whatsoever, minus the dying at the end of the day part :P

What's your current perspective/confidence level regarding ilario?

i will need to re-read illario before i answer that, but i would like to make it known that i was theorizing quite strongly overnight that there was a wolf between lime coke/illario. i have never seen lime coke and illario fail to find each other on d1 when they are villagers before, and illario remaining consistently suspicious of lime coke throughout the day as LC continued to townread him made me think that the dynamic would not be pure. i also estimate that the Epicmafians might be more likely to kill me than the other players here, but that is faulty reasoning, so i'm not weighing it too heavily

You're not wrong in this, I'll admit that I'd probably end up killing you N1 because I'm dead scared of you and you know this.

But I'm not mafia so nya.

I'm sorry for not appearing until now, took multiple L's yesterday including the Browns. Still reeling from that one.

I'll wrap my head into the game.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:36 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:28 pm @JaggedJimmyJay

If I were a betting man, I'd say all of the mafia are in: TSP, Ilario, G-man, Johanna, LimeCoke

I will be a little surprised if this list does not include multiple mafia members. I would also be surprised if it contains all four of them.

I would be surprised if the list contains fewer than 3 mafia.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:39 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:36 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:28 pm @JaggedJimmyJay

If I were a betting man, I'd say all of the mafia are in: TSP, Ilario, G-man, Johanna, LimeCoke

I will be a little surprised if this list does not include multiple mafia members. I would also be surprised if it contains all four of them.

I would be surprised if the list contains fewer than 3 mafia.

Which three are you most confident about?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:40 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:39 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:36 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:28 pm @JaggedJimmyJay

If I were a betting man, I'd say all of the mafia are in: TSP, Ilario, G-man, Johanna, LimeCoke

I will be a little surprised if this list does not include multiple mafia members. I would also be surprised if it contains all four of them.

I would be surprised if the list contains fewer than 3 mafia.

Which three are you most confident about?

Ilario and Johanna.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:41 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:40 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:39 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:36 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:28 pm @JaggedJimmyJay

If I were a betting man, I'd say all of the mafia are in: TSP, Ilario, G-man, Johanna, LimeCoke

I will be a little surprised if this list does not include multiple mafia members. I would also be surprised if it contains all four of them.

I would be surprised if the list contains fewer than 3 mafia.

Which three are you most confident about?

Ilario and Johanna.

Want to complete the triad?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:28 pm @JaggedJimmyJay

If I were a betting man, I'd say all of the mafia are in: TSP, Ilario, G-man, Johanna, LimeCoke

I could see it. For the moment I am just kind of taking TSP at face value with the watcher claim.

Uh... I was still operating based on Son of A's Watcher claim. Was that rescinded?

I don't think SoA rescinded it. I'm not sure how "hard" a claim it was. The two of them can sort that out.

ok, so then my top 3 is obvious:

G-Man Johanna Ilario (equal equity)

I was debating TSP & Gman, but the claim if held and un-cc'd changes a lot actually.

What makes ya guys think ilario would poison Stayposi? Is there somethin' I'm missin' here?