I don't think sitting on our thumbs and just shutting up until the Watcher overlords hand down a red check is a good idea.
For all we know Marmot could still be a Mafia Soldier who is bussing one of his members for credit. I've lived this exact scenario before.
There is just so much wrong with doing nothing but wait for red checks.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:15 pm
by Lime Coke
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:14 pm
Are we just gonna sleepwalk today then
Turned into that, yeah.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:16 pm
by DrWilgy
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:41 pm
Mac says he was on early, so he probably didn't jump on.
Mmh mhhrfr
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:16 pm
by LinearPoint
Man you guys make me want to play League just to detilt.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:16 pm
by TonyStarkPrime
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:15 pm
I don't think sitting on our thumbs and just shutting up until the Watcher overlords hand down a red check is a good idea.
For all we know Marmot could still be a Mafia Soldier who is bussing one of his members for credit. I've lived this exact scenario before.
There is just so much wrong with doing nothing but wait for red checks.
But then we still sleepwalk into redcheck
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:17 pm
by DrWilgy
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:16 pm
Man you guys make me want to play League just to detilt.
Mh...
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:17 pm
by Lime Coke
Like I have my townreads-
My thoughts are if the red check is in my townreads then I might need to re-evaluate.
If it's outside my townreads I might feel good about myself.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:17 pm
by Marmot
It was sabie, turbo her to the sun.
Having not read much of the game, I thought this would be an amazing piece of info, but after reading a little bit of people's iso's (mainly LP's) it turns out sabie was probably getting yeeted today anyway lol
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
by Lime Coke
Ah, well then...
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
by Marmot
To be fully transparent, sabie visited Dizzy last night, and I saw no one else there.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
by Dolby
eh
maybe I'm wrong on how today will play out wrt solving with and w/o a red check
but in my experience town just analyzes who they think teammates are and wait for the flip
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
by LinearPoint
Oh and I'm the crazy one for saying Sabie might have just killed her accuser?
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
by TonyStarkPrime
But I was gonna shoot her
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:19 pm
by Dolby
ok yeah sabie dies
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:19 pm
by Dolby
[VOTE:
Sabie12] aubergine
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:19 pm
by TonyStarkPrime
I didn’t say anything stop paying attention to me wolves never read
It's not at all the same as a normal day and idk why you keep insisting it is
It also isn't waiting for the potential of a red check, we already know there is one lol
I mean if someone flips Mafia it calls for reevaluation since you didn't know they were Mafia beforehand.
You can't know for certainty that a flip or vigilante shot will result red or green unless you are Mafia.
The same goes for red checks. Prior to the check you cannot be certain they are Town or Mafia.
I do not really see a fundamental difference between a lynch resulting in a Mafia death and a Watcher saying they saw someone kill.
And Dolby is ultimately correct. Town will just tunnel on the red check until they are dead and 9/10 ignore all other stimuli and overlook potentially scummy behavior.
Its also not like he's saying that he wont give it at all. The first half can be used to regular scum hunt and determine who is trying to distance from the killer and the second half is reevaluating the first and seeing what was missed.
That seems fairly logical and a good plan in my opinion.
I mean the difference is you can spend the day building worlds after a check*, before the TK. Not, you know, in public, but privately, if you're me. Or in public if you're you. Idc.
You can do what you want but I fundamentally disagree with the approach you're describing and your comparisons are inane at best or intentionally bad at worst, and I will not be making any reads now that could bias me later when I'm building worlds.
*yes there is technically the possibility that marmot could be faking a red as town (unlikely for him I think, with how he's gone about it) or as mafia (lol), but it's low in this case
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:20 pm
by sig
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
Oh and I'm the crazy one for saying Sabie might have just killed her accuser?
Okay don't need to rub it in.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:20 pm
by LinearPoint
Honestly I think this does mean that NAA is probably Mafia here.
I'd say Mac is good as they were pretty set on outing Sabie regardless of anything today.
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
Oh and I'm the crazy one for saying Sabie might have just killed her accuser?
Okay don't need to rub it in.
ah but wait maybe you're on her team and was trying to delay results! (grasping at straws sig? maybe sig maybe i am, willing to fully abandon ship sig? no no i don't think I am)
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:21 pm
by Marmot
Oh also [VOTE:
sabie] aubergine
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:21 pm
by Dolby
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:50 pm
I do want to hear from Tony, Nanook, and Mac at some point as to why the fuck they even voted that.
Dolby was the only one, I think already on Seanzie, Sabie pretty much gets a pass for self preservation interests, and really doubt NAA will ever come in to explain why he did it other than for the lols.
tony nanook and naa should be looked at with more scrutiny
iirc I think that the way nanook handled it was particularly questionable
like "hey I'll hop on here, uh oh this wasn't a good idea" two minutes before votes closed since they closed at :05 rather than :00
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:22 pm
by falcon45ca
Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
To be fully transparent, sabie visited Dizzy last night, and I saw no one else there.
Well there ya go
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:23 pm
by Dolby
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
But I was gonna shoot her
ok so I have a very hot take
what if we have marmot watch tsp and someone else watch marmot?
kill can't be interfered with I don't think?
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:23 pm
by TonyStarkPrime
My vote was a mistake and cannot be logically explained
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
Oh and I'm the crazy one for saying Sabie might have just killed her accuser?
Okay don't need to rub it in.
ah but wait maybe you're on her team and was trying to delay results! (grasping at straws sig? maybe sig maybe i am, willing to fully abandon ship sig? no no i don't think I am)
You cheeky bastard.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:24 pm
by Dolby
wait nvm pyro exists
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:25 pm
by TonyStarkPrime
Also in these situations you just don’t allow wolf night actions
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:26 pm
by LinearPoint
At the very least this does confirm there is at least 1 Mafia in NAA, Tony, and Nonook.
There is no chance that whole last second push off Mafia was all Town.
NAA is probably most likely to just have the balls to try it, but I don't think Nanook ever voted for Sabie, but Tony and NAA at some point had.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:26 pm
by Dolby
also tbh I'm sus of any engineer claims
I felt that instructions were clear for building a sentry yesterday, why'd they both build dispensers
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:27 pm
by sig
I will say combo of discussion prior to red check being claimed and LP being right re kill has shifted the scum read to semi solid civ read.
I'll probably pop in and our over this phase, will be on the road tomorrow though, maybe reread sabie now knowing she's mafia and give some general thoughts/read list together.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:28 pm
by Dolby
Nanook why'd you switch last minute to Seanzie? And remind us who you were on?
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:29 pm
by LinearPoint
Nanook was on the marmot wagon I know, but I can't remember if they transition switched to Sabie before voting Seanzie, or just went to Seanzie.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:29 pm
by LinearPoint
Actualyl wait that might not be right.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:29 pm
by Dolby
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:18 pmEngineer bases are open for business!
Wait, but what is an engineer base anyway? Do I have to read that long-ass role description?
Yes, but for the lazy or busy among you, I have brought the Engineer himself, Mr. Dell Conagher, to explain what his whole deal is about.
Engineer bases have the following buildings:
- Blue Engineer: Dispenser
- Red Engineer: Dispenser
So whatever you pick, you will be served by a Dispenser, giving you +1 vote for this day phase. However, being in the base means you are not in combat, blocking you for the whole day/night cycle!
If you are interested, choose what base you want to join in the next 24 hours, by sending me a PM telling me which color of engineer base you wanna enter. Only one of you will be able to enter each base, and the Engineer will choose who gets in.
And remember: If you are town, make sure you enter a base from a town engineer, and if you are mafia, from a mafia engineer, otherwise the Dispenser won't work for you, but you'll still be blocked!
oh they're probably just trying to clear themselves lol
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:31 pm
by LinearPoint
I like the scenario where both engies tried to big brain and expect the other one to sentry so rather than going Doctor they went doublevoter.
I suppose Dispenser isn't the worst one. If it stays up it gets more overall value than Sentries, but Sentries stop kills so it's just weird imo to not go for defense. Even Mafia would probably want that to stop Spies and Snipers.
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:18 pm
But I was gonna shoot her
ok so I have a very hot take
what if we have marmot watch tsp and someone else watch marmot?
kill can't be interfered with I don't think?
It would require the other watcher being town, but I believe that's correct.
But I'm a watcher, would watching tsp be useful?
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:34 pm
by LinearPoint
I'm going to vote NAA in case they are Sniper. I would encourage another to do the same so that if NAA is Mafia sniper they can't shoot tonight.
Probably do the same to Nanook or Tony to be on the safe side.
i just suspect NAA more.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:37 pm
by LinearPoint
The likely hood of both Medics and second Soldier all being Mafia is unlikely so I think we can have them visit Marmot.
If the other Soldier doesn't out tomorrow we know they are Mafia which would result in both Medics dead, but at least it confirmed Mafia has a Soldier.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:37 pm
by LinearPoint
This is assuming Sabie isn't Soldier.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:38 pm
by Marmot
sabie tell us your role so town can plan optimally around it.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:38 pm
by LinearPoint
WCS we could also have Wiggly pyro protect Marmot which would be just as good, but if Wiggly is blocked in any way marmot dies.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:38 pm
by Lime Coke
Yeah get rid of Sabie, if I were shooting it would be towards NAA.
Dolby's plan with the watchers is the best plan to have, so follow that one.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:40 pm
by Lime Coke
I'll try to read through Sabie's iso tonight to see what she was saying and I recommend others do to just for reassurance.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:40 pm
by Marmot
It doesn't really matter that much if I die. I'm going to be fairly lowkey this game, so mafia will have to choose between a low-volume investigative ability, or a high-volume towncore player who is working hard on solving the game. Killing me will let you continue doing that.
Re: Team Fortress Mafia [DAY 2]
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:41 pm
by LinearPoint
OK, what about this plan.
Wiggly protects Marmot.
The other unknown Pyro can protect Wiggly so Marmot cannot die since Wiggly would be immune to roleblocks.
If Marmot somehow dies it would have to mean that the Mafia has a Pyro (be it the random one not protecting Wiggly or Wiggly willingly not protecting Marmot), or the random pyro got randomly roleblocked.
