The Syndicate

Russtifinko wrote:Again, can anybody confirm that Snowie's puzzle was unique and right, please? I'm at work and can check it at 5 when I go home, but the sooner I know the better. He already checked it up to llama's, so half the worm is done.

Why bother with the other half of the worm? It's too late to change anything now.

Ok I just checked Russ. Mine is unique of those shown in thread.

Thanks, Snowie.

This might sound crazy or even absolutely batshit, but fingers has convinced me. I'm almost positive she's a civ now. So I will be changing my vote, and I think others should not vote for her.

However, I also think that no one at all should be voting sabie. The case against her is weak, and basically dates back to her being confused about the roles on Day 1. It's too easy, just like every other lynch this game has been.

At work and can't make cases now, but I now think we should be looking at someone who did send in a puzzle, maybe someone who's been very helpful this game. I think MM is a good place to start. And PLEASE do not lynch sabie, I think it'll turn out badly

Russtifinko wrote:Thanks, Snowie.

This might sound crazy or even absolutely batshit, but fingers has convinced me. I'm almost positive she's a civ now. So I will be changing my vote, and I think others should not vote for her.

However, I also think that no one at all should be voting sabie. The case against her is weak, and basically dates back to her being confused about the roles on Day 1. It's too easy, just like every other lynch this game has been.

At work and can't make cases now, but I now think we should be looking at someone who did send in a puzzle, maybe someone who's been very helpful this game. I think MM is a good place to start. And PLEASE do not lynch sabie, I think it'll turn out badly

I agree that the sabie case is not really stronger than any other so far but one of them has to be right! And why MM? You making a case later?

One of them does not have to be right.

And I'll take a crack at it, but very busy today. I'm doubtful I can do it before the lynch deadline

Russ why the sudden change in heart about splints? You are right that people shouldn't be voting for me but what changed your mind about her?

Russtifinko wrote:I'll be more exact now: I think votes are coming in because there are cases, and not because they're good ones, and fingersplints is the one putting them there. As MR, myself, and others have noted, the fact that she has caused 3 civs in a row to be lynched hasn't made her hesitant in the slightest to go after more, and she's not getting nearly the scrutiny over it that she should be. I'm voting her today, and I help the rest of you will look at the record, make up your minds on this case's merits, and join me.

I agree with this. I voted for a string of civs in DW (before my recruitment) and my confidence was knocked a hell of a lot. While I applaud her trying to help and find baddies, I wonder whether there is more to it. I'd question myself a lot if I was her and she is civ.

Russtifinko wrote:At work and can't make cases now, but I now think we should be looking at someone who did send in a puzzle, maybe someone who's been very helpful this game. I think MM is a good place to start. And PLEASE do not lynch sabie, I think it'll turn out badly

1. This was the sort of bullshit Boogs came out with. I don't think you're talking about me but I'm going to have to stop trying to raise Ganon's funds if every day the ones who try come under suspicion. I won't be the only one either.
2. Why not lynch sabie? What will it turn out badly?

sabie12 wrote:After all of this discussion, I'm starting to see how splints could be bad. If she wanted to frame Russ or Made for SVS she could because they are the ones SVS was suspicious of. She was a part of the hedge civ lynch and also has voted for and is going after Russ and posting about Russ. Then all of the sudden now she agrees with llama and votes me without much of a case against me. I don't know what I did other than be busy and not post as much. I haven't been a part of the most recent civ lynches.

This seemed like a convenient time to think splints is bad.

nijuukyugou wrote:Zeek, I am enjoying your gradual embellishment of DT (Doctor Moneybags, I presume? )

Monopoly has just started :P Speaking of which...

Russtifinko wrote:One of them does not have to be right.
(

Eventually we are bound to be right and lynch a baddie. Unless we never do, but that would be the strangest game ever.

zeek wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:I'll be more exact now: I think votes are coming in because there are cases, and not because they're good ones, and fingersplints is the one putting them there. As MR, myself, and others have noted, the fact that she has caused 3 civs in a row to be lynched hasn't made her hesitant in the slightest to go after more, and she's not getting nearly the scrutiny over it that she should be. I'm voting her today, and I help the rest of you will look at the record, make up your minds on this case's merits, and join me.

I agree with this. I voted for a string of civs in DW (before my recruitment) and my confidence was knocked a hell of a lot. While I applaud her trying to help and find baddies, I wonder whether there is more to it. I'd question myself a lot if I was her and she is civ.

I didn't vote for a string of civvies though, I voted for one.

Sorry, I haven't been attending to this game as much as I'd like. Why does the OP say you've caused three civs to be lynched?

My thoughts are that the baddies are being very discrete because I don't think any of the cases against people are particularly strong, as Snow Dog said. And, on top of that, I am having a hard time finding a case against anyone even though I have reread individual players. But, I believe the strongest case (although not strong) is the one on Sabie. So...that is where my vote will go.

Russtifinko wrote:Again, can anybody confirm that Snowie's puzzle was unique and right, please? I'm at work and can check it at 5 when I go home, but the sooner I know the better. He already checked it up to llama's, so half the worm is done.

Why do you care about this at this point? It's too late to make changes. I'm curious as to why this is so important to you.

thellama73 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:Again, can anybody confirm that Snowie's puzzle was unique and right, please? I'm at work and can check it at 5 when I go home, but the sooner I know the better. He already checked it up to llama's, so half the worm is done.

Why do you care about this at this point? It's too late to make changes. I'm curious as to why this is so important to you.

I see you sort of addressed this above, but I still don't see what difference it makes if Snowy's puzzle was unique.

Elohcin wrote:My thoughts are that the baddies are being very discrete because I don't think any of the cases against people are particularly strong, as Snow Dog said. And, on top of that, I am having a hard time finding a case against anyone even though I have reread individual players. But, I believe the strongest case (although not strong) is the one on Sabie. So...that is where my vote will go.

My thoughts exactly, while I have gut pings on Splints and Snow, I don't have anything compelling on them to back it up. I'm going to be busy for the rest of the day so i have to vote now, but if i get a chance to catch up from my phone, I will.
Sorry Sabie If you're good <3

The vote on sabie is getting strong, despite Russti's misgivings. And I can see why. It's an itch that has to be scratched.

I am voting for sabie and crossing my fingers on this one.

Snow Dog wrote:I am voting for sabie and crossing my fingers on this one.

I will be utterly shocked if Sabie doesn't flip baddie. I think she's extremely transparent.

Well hey the baddies are winning this game. I've surprised you before Llama and I guess I will surprise you again. I'm not bad but I strongly feel that splints and llama are. Good luck to the civs that are left after you kill me and realize I'm good. I must just not be good at this game or something because I don't know what it is that I'm doing wrong this game. Maybe I'm just an idiot and don't even realize it. Sigh

I'm voting splints not that it'll make much difference. Evil baddies you're really killing us civs this game... literally.

I was hoping to be more involved today but all my time is disappearing at the moment. Really sorry, work is on top of me right now. I will sort myself out and fully involve myself the next few days.

For today, I'll vote sabie. I also see Snowy and MM as possible mafia. I can't really give them any criticisms to respond to, it's mostly gut.

As for sabie, I don't believe she's been all that genuine. Like the other two, there's just something about her posts that doesn't sit well with me. Plus, she has 8 votes. Might as well make it more of a sure thing so there's no suspicious swing.

Got to continue my paperwork now.

Linki - those posts make me even more comfortable with my vote.

zeek wrote:Sorry, I haven't been attending to this game as much as I'd like. Why does the OP say you've caused three civs to be lynched?

I discussed them. I strongly disagree that I led them to be lynched. Made I barely mentioned. Boogs I will give him that I discussed a bunch and did consider voting. He has since retracted his vote and suspicion. Its all detailed in the original post.

Russtifinko wrote:Thanks, Snowie.

This might sound crazy or even absolutely batshit, but fingers has convinced me. I'm almost positive she's a civ now. So I will be changing my vote, and I think others should not vote for her.

However, I also think that no one at all should be voting sabie. The case against her is weak, and basically dates back to her being confused about the roles on Day 1. It's too easy, just like every other lynch this game has been.

At work and can't make cases now, but I now think we should be looking at someone who did send in a puzzle, maybe someone who's been very helpful this game. I think MM is a good place to start. And PLEASE do not lynch sabie, I think it'll turn out badly

Why are you mischaracterizing the case on Sabie?

sabie12 wrote:Well hey the baddies are winning this game. I've surprised you before Llama and I guess I will surprise you again. I'm not bad but I strongly feel that splints and llama are. Good luck to the civs that are left after you kill me and realize I'm good. I must just not be good at this game or something because I don't know what it is that I'm doing wrong this game. Maybe I'm just an idiot and don't even realize it. Sigh

Llama might be bad.

But, this post made me sad. You aren't "just bad at this game"
I just think you're bad.

But I'm not bad this game so I'm clearly doing something wrong. Just not sure what it is. Not clearly articulating my posts? Not using enough emotion to drive my posts? Being too boring not boring enough? Sighhh Idk.

Ok, so...

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this new Sabie. Her posts definitely have the air of a change in confidence. If that's likely what's setting pings off for everyone else, I certainly understand that.

On a personal note: knowing her irl, being the one to introduce her to the site, and seeing her frustration after getting lynched in Dr. Who and dying in games before, I do have some instinctive hesitation to vote for her and tendency to give her benefit of the doubt. So I'm admittedly going to be a horrible barometer here.

As much as I coined the suspicion against Splints that Russ shares, I have to take responsibility where it's due too. I've been absent for so much of this game and I feel that several more civs have, making it easy for baddies to wagon against whoever they want. That is where I think we've been losing this game so far. It makes for a very frustrating time. :/

I've just been trying to participate more since I thought I was getting more used to the game.

Ugh, every time I try to post something goes wrong.

I'm going to vote for Sabie today because this has been going on for days and I'd just like to end it and I haven't felt good about her since Day 1.

Russ you confound me today.

Someone please help me out here and tell me what I've been doing wrong? I could use the advice maybe for the next game.

sabie12 wrote:Someone please help me out here and tell me what I've been doing wrong? I could use the advice maybe for the next game.

Your first mistake was being a baddie. Your second mistake was letting us catch you.

I just don't feel like getting competetive today. Sorry to whoever my fellow civs are, but work and other stuff has me tired af. This is a really awesome game that I've been looking forward to, and Epi hosting Shawshank was one of my favorite playing experiences (I came sooo close! ), but I feel incredibly behind and out of the loop here.

sabie12 wrote:Someone please help me out here and tell me what I've been doing wrong?

I suppose that depends on whether you're good or bad?

Sabie I was pretty bad at mafia when I first started, sometimes still am. You aren't bad actually, and you aren't doing anything wrong, it just happens sometimes you get lynched.

I haven't won a game since Harry Potter, for what that's worth.

Nevermind. I won Fight Club. I just forgot because there's STILL NO BADGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow. 9 votes for sabie. I'm not entirely sure why people are so sure she's bad, and why so many people have voted. Liz's vote to "get it over with" looks pretty off, too. My own initial ping with sabie had to do with her eagerness to see Made 2.0 as bad the day he was made...Made 2.0, but otherwise, not really sure. A lot of people are saying "insincere posting" and others seem to be voting "just because." This is worrisome, so even if it doesn't do much for the lynch today, I'm not gonna add vote #10.

Russ, I applaud your effort to get votes off of sabie and your massive case on splints, but you're all over the place, dude. One minute you're hardcore on splints, and then you're not. Same thing with the Boogs lynch, except in the opposite direction (not as hardcore on Boogs as your were with splints, but still). I understand that opinions can change, but I've played before with people who are "wishy-washy" in the thread and are bad, and others who point fingers at everyone they can, then back off to sneak suspicion in and they've been bad. This "all over the place-ness" (this is also a word because I said so) pings me more than sabie. Honestly, I'm really surprised no one has pointed this out as suspicious (unless I missed something, and sorry if I did and I'm taking credit). I'm putting my vote on Russ.

@sabie - You are doing nothing wrong! I think many people can attest to playing all different ways and getting themselves lynched, but also being able to stay alive and win. Talk too little, get lynched. Talk too much, get lynched. Too helpful, not helpful, too much in the middle, get lynched. It's a difficult game to get used to (I know I often have trouble keeping up and it took me a while to get used to accusing people while also realizing/hoping they won't get mad), but please keep playing!

Snow Dog wrote:The vote on sabie is getting strong, despite Russti's misgivings. And I can see why. It's an itch that has to be scratched.

LizKeen wrote:Ugh, every time I try to post something goes wrong.

I'm going to vote for Sabie today because this has been going on for days and I'd just like to end it and I haven't felt good about her since Day 1.

Russ you confound me today.

The itch doesn't have to be scratched! It doesn't have to end!

Come on, guys!!! Why all the resigned, "Well, it's been coming" votes?? No one's making you do anything! And as I said yesterday (this was meant to be one of my main points) nobody is making you do anything in this game! You could literally slap a vote on anyone you want, and you're being held back by convention and tradition.

Well the baddies have us by the balls this game, and convention and tradition are the vicegrips. They're squeezing harder every day, because we've been trained to look for role hints (cases on Boogs and sabie being examples) even where there are none. We've been trained to look for insincerity (Hedge and, again, sabie being misguided examples), and we've been trained to look for disinterest.

The baddies aren't stupid; they're not going to fit into our little boxes of what is bad because they've seen it done just like we have. It's evolution, survival of the most adaptable. That's why Made lamented that baddies always win here: they change their game up, and we follow the same old patterns, waiting for them to fall in our lap.

I have a strong suspicion that the baddies have been very involved this game. Why wouldn't they be? Unlike the civs, they are the only ones who can earn rupees for themselves. They get no rupees if they don't participate, whereas civs still might get a cool new role, and they keep everything they earn. It's simple economics!

So we need to think differently here. Lynch people who have done everything, never missed a vote, been gung-ho about contests, and whatnot.

I would at least think llama would get this. Not only does it involve economics, but it's along a similar line of thinking to the Llama Gambit. Baddies won't just say "Hey guys, come lynch me!" We need to force them into mistakes, make them react instead of reacting to them.

And at least, I'm asking that you guys not vote someone "just because" or because they've been talked about for days. Not only is that poor strategy, it's no fun! Vote someone you really think is bad, even if you have no case whatsoever, or only have gut feeling to go on! That's the way real discussion starts.

9 votes for sabie based on this "case" is utterly ridiculous. It means the divs have given up on finding leads of their own, and I'll be ashamed of all of us if it goes through like this.

nijuukyugou wrote:Wow. 9 votes for sabie. I'm not entirely sure why people are so sure she's bad, and why so many people have voted. Liz's vote to "get it over with" looks pretty off, too. My own initial ping with sabie had to do with her eagerness to see Made 2.0 as bad the day he was made...Made 2.0, but otherwise, not really sure. A lot of people are saying "insincere posting" and others seem to be voting "just because." This is worrisome, so even if it doesn't do much for the lynch today, I'm not gonna add vote #10.

Russ, I applaud your effort to get votes off of sabie and your massive case on splints, but you're all over the place, dude. One minute you're hardcore on splints, and then you're not. Same thing with the Boogs lynch, except in the opposite direction (not as hardcore on Boogs as your were with splints, but still). I understand that opinions can change, but I've played before with people who are "wishy-washy" in the thread and are bad, and others who point fingers at everyone they can, then back off to sneak suspicion in and they've been bad. This "all over the place-ness" (this is also a word because I said so) pings me more than sabie. Honestly, I'm really surprised no one has pointed this out as suspicious (unless I missed something, and sorry if I did and I'm taking credit). I'm putting my vote on Russ.

@sabie - You are doing nothing wrong! I think many people can attest to playing all different ways and getting themselves lynched, but also being able to stay alive and win. Talk too little, get lynched. Talk too much, get lynched. Too helpful, not helpful, too much in the middle, get lynched. It's a difficult game to get used to (I know I often have trouble keeping up and it took me a while to get used to accusing people while also realizing/hoping they won't get mad), but please keep playing!

Fair enough. A real case, based on me acting (I admit it) weird as hell. In fact, I would much rather everyone vote me than sabie. So bring it on! There's plenty of ammo to use building a case, and I can take it.

For my part, I'm voting MM. No time for a case right now, so I don't expect him to be lynched, but I think he needs the attention and I'll put one together as soon as I'm able.

nijuukyugou wrote:it took me a while to get used to accusing people while also realizing/hoping they won't get mad), but please keep playing! [/ot]

I'm pretty much in a constant state of barely contained rage towards you.

You guys are making a mistake with sabie. Frankly, I'll vote myself over her if there's a chance to. And if it inspires some action, all the better.

sabie12 wrote:But I'm not bad this game so I'm clearly doing something wrong. Just not sure what it is. Not clearly articulating my posts? Not using enough emotion to drive my posts? Being too boring not boring enough? Sighhh Idk.

Being the trusting mug that I am, i believe you and will remove my vote. Don't know where yet so self vote.

Vote MM! Or me, or whoever you feel strongest about.

Russtifinko wrote:Vote MM! Or me, or whoever you feel strongest about.

Don't feel strongly about either.

nijuukyugou wrote:Russ, I applaud your effort to get votes off of sabie and your massive case on splints, but you're all over the place, dude. One minute you're hardcore on splints, and then you're not. Same thing with the Boogs lynch, except in the opposite direction (not as hardcore on Boogs as your were with splints, but still). I understand that opinions can change, but I've played before with people who are "wishy-washy" in the thread and are bad, and others who point fingers at everyone they can, then back off to sneak suspicion in and they've been bad. This "all over the place-ness" (this is also a word because I said so) pings me more than sabie. Honestly, I'm really surprised no one has pointed this out as suspicious (unless I missed something, and sorry if I did and I'm taking credit). I'm putting my vote on Russ.
]

Oh, and I should probably address this. I know it's not "normal" behavior, and that it might look shady. I don't have a great explanation, unfortunately. All I can really say to explain myself is things change. Posts get made, the thread moves on, and my opinion changes with the new events - and that's how it should be, I think. It's just usually not nearly this much, or this fast.

Snow Dog wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:Vote MM! Or me, or whoever you feel strongest about.

Don't feel strongly about either.

Ok, neither me nor MM, then. But there's no one else in the whole wide world you have your own little personal ping about? Even someone you don't have any evidence against at all who you just think on a whim might be bad?

I want to reread MM but no time tonight.

Dom, why Llama and MM?

Russtifinko wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:Vote MM! Or me, or whoever you feel strongest about.

Don't feel strongly about either.

Ok, neither me nor MM, then. But there's no one else in the whole wide world you have your own little personal ping about? Even someone you don't have any evidence against at all who you just think on a whim might be bad?

Yeah Boogs....and look how that turned out. I'll think about it. Dom possibly? I just don't think he'd act this way if bad. I dunno.

Russtifinko wrote:Even someone you don't have any evidence against at all who you just think on a whim might be bad?

How is this a better reason than those given for voting sabie?

S~V~S wrote:I played maybe 7 or 8 games before I won one.

I think Dexter was my fourth but I lost for a long time after that. I just recently started winning in a serious way.

Russtifinko wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:Wow. 9 votes for sabie. I'm not entirely sure why people are so sure she's bad, and why so many people have voted. Liz's vote to "get it over with" looks pretty off, too. My own initial ping with sabie had to do with her eagerness to see Made 2.0 as bad the day he was made...Made 2.0, but otherwise, not really sure. A lot of people are saying "insincere posting" and others seem to be voting "just because." This is worrisome, so even if it doesn't do much for the lynch today, I'm not gonna add vote #10.

Russ, I applaud your effort to get votes off of sabie and your massive case on splints, but you're all over the place, dude. One minute you're hardcore on splints, and then you're not. Same thing with the Boogs lynch, except in the opposite direction (not as hardcore on Boogs as your were with splints, but still). I understand that opinions can change, but I've played before with people who are "wishy-washy" in the thread and are bad, and others who point fingers at everyone they can, then back off to sneak suspicion in and they've been bad. This "all over the place-ness" (this is also a word because I said so) pings me more than sabie. Honestly, I'm really surprised no one has pointed this out as suspicious (unless I missed something, and sorry if I did and I'm taking credit). I'm putting my vote on Russ.

@sabie - You are doing nothing wrong! I think many people can attest to playing all different ways and getting themselves lynched, but also being able to stay alive and win. Talk too little, get lynched. Talk too much, get lynched. Too helpful, not helpful, too much in the middle, get lynched. It's a difficult game to get used to (I know I often have trouble keeping up and it took me a while to get used to accusing people while also realizing/hoping they won't get mad), but please keep playing!

Fair enough. A real case, based on me acting (I admit it) weird as hell. In fact, I would much rather everyone vote me than sabie. So bring it on! There's plenty of ammo to use building a case, and I can take it.

For my part, I'm voting MM. No time for a case right now, so I don't expect him to be lynched, but I think he needs the attention and I'll put one together as soon as I'm able.

Did you not say it was "off" when I did the exact same thing?
Also, why MM?

changed my vote

Wow I really don't like how many people are voting sabie. Also maybe we should look at the people who were night killed . Who would want to kill S~V~S and MP this early? Maybe someone that they can read ? Idk just spit balling.

Sorry for coming on late. I'm catching up now, since I've still got time.