The Syndicate

I can confirm that votes are not changeable.

Turnip Head wrote:I can confirm that votes are not changeable.

You done goofed.

Why are we here?
Why does it happen?

You better run, homeboy
A fact's a fact from Nome to Rome, boy

DH can you explain your votes in this night poll please? I am noting some inconsistencies.

RIP Trice and all. I'm happy to be caught up. Less posting at night, I bet.

DP voted without posting. That guy is bad news.

Turnip Head wrote:DH can you explain your votes in this night poll please? I am noting some inconsistencies.

The poll said we could vote a total of 9 times and so that is what I did.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Urge to modkill the next player who acts me a stupid question rising...

MP why did you kill trice

I voted both yes and no because I just want to be loved.

I wish Trice were still with us, he could explain how my night vote conclusively proves I'm Kira. Then Epi and will have a knife fight, and Rico will say something despondent that no one will respond to.

Snowman wrote:I voted both yes and no because I just want to be loved.

I wish Trice were still with us, he could explain how my night vote conclusively proves I'm Kira. Then Epi and DH will have a knife fight, and Rico will say something despondent that no one will respond to.

Oops

This has never happened to me. I don't miss votes. Ever! But I had to leave yesterday to watch a movie with my husband and while I wanted to vote before, I couldn't make up my mind, so I decided to wait until after we finish watching, and I fell asleep in the middle of the movie. Now I might get punished and I didn't finish the movie I've been badly wanting to see (Grand Budapest hotel), and we have to return it.


Anyway, I see that you lynched Trice. I'm at work so I don't have time to read everything or check the voting poll, but if it was closely tied with someone else, I'm even more sorry for missing it.

I'll be back later

I could not make up my mind re the poll.

Welcome zeek

xoxox Roxy

FZ. wrote:This has never happened to me. I don't miss votes. Ever! But I had to leave yesterday to watch a movie with my husband and while I wanted to vote before, I couldn't make up my mind, so I decided to wait until after we finish watching, and I fell asleep in the middle of the movie. Now I might get punished and I didn't finish the movie I've been badly wanting to see (Grand Budapest hotel), and we have to return it.


Anyway, I see that you lynched Trice. I'm at work so I don't have time to read everything or check the voting poll, but if it was closely tied with someone else, I'm even more sorry for missing it.

I'll be back later

How can one possibly fall asleep during Grand Budapest Hotel? *votes FZ*

Who would you have voted for, if you would have returned?

I found myself agreeing with Epi over the D0 vote but since then he's lost me a bit. This little tiff with DH seems rather pointless to me, as it's not helping at all. We'll have to lynch one of these guys eventually if they can't let their egos cool off and cooperate. That said, maybe this is a calculated move by both of them.

Was the discussion about the Shinigami Eyes Deal strictly manga-related or any implications about whether that Deal also exists in this game?

From DH's list, I'd approve only of #3 (well, subjectively speaking, #2 didn't sit well with me either, but hey). Then again, since Epignosis didn't actually vote for Russ on D1 based on his assumptions, I'm sort of fine with that.

Actually, to add even more to the speculation on Russ, I'm starting to wonder if it's not possible for one of the three Shinigami that is least likely to make contact/team up with any DN-holder, at least until certain events occur, to indeed have to stay silent until then. But I still find it hard to believe MP would design such a role with which a player could reveal himself so easily.

Snowman wrote:I voted both yes and no because I just want to be loved.

I wish Trice were still with us, he could explain how my night vote conclusively proves I'm Kira. Then Epi and will have a knife fight, and Rico will say something despondent that no one will respond to.

Ey?

I prefer the season 2 song.

DharmaHelper wrote:I was going to make a rather large post about why I suspect Epi, but I doubt it would get read, so instead I will make a list, and if anyone wants me to elaborate on any specific thing, let me know. I suspect Epi and will vote for him for the following reasons:

1) His fear mongering and shifty behavior in the D0 poll
2) His Hypocritical suspicion of Rico's Lore-Based assumptions, given his own lore-based assumptions.
3) His shoddy, lore-based reasoning for suspecting Russ.
4) The idea that he chose to suspect and claimed that he wanted to vote for Russ, who seemingly could not / cannot defend himself.
5) The fact that he flaked out of this vote rather than sticking to his guns
6) The fact that he did not want to explain why he did not stick to his guns.

1. I kinda agreed with him, so
2. I see your point here. Epi did tons of verbal acrobatics around this point, but he still did the deed. But his non-vote for Russti made me think this was one of those trap things people seem so fond of recently. Leaving bait for someone to see if they pounce. Or he could want us to think that, based on his non answer to your avatar.
3. See 2, although "shoddy" is a bit hyperbole on your part tbh. And for me hyperbole=shoddy, so meh. But yeah, that seemed a very specific assumption re Russti when there are so many role secrets.
4. This was a point for me, most definitely. There are any number of possibilities in all of those *Secrets* after like almost every role (except those Vanilla Yots), and Russ is a strong, active player. But again, the non-vote.
5. Don't know that I would call it a flake out. I am thinking he never planned to vote for Russ, but he was fishing for something. Some Byzantine thing us plebs could never understand, I am sure.
6. See ^^

I think these all are linked into one big point, really, except the first one with which I disagree. They are standard issue Epi, "I am a Sooper Genius" mind games, imo. Does it make him bad, though? Possible. But whereas this chain of events would pretty much indict someone else, it is SOP for Epi.

I intend to take this night to reread yet again (on Night One! You chatty cathys!).

I voted that MM should be modkilled because I like modkills. I also hate the second season theme song. It is so annoying. The first is much better.

S~V~S wrote:I think these all are linked into one big point, really, except the first one with which I disagree. They are standard issue Epi, "I am a Sooper Genius" mind games, imo. Does it make him bad, though? Possible. But whereas this chain of events would pretty much indict someone else, it is SOP for Epi.

I don't like it at all. No one has a license to act so sketchy. Epig is on my baddie list now. I don't care if your name is Epignosis or Snuffleupagus, if we just look the other way when suspicious behaviour happens, then we make it a cake walk that player when they are bad.

Long Con wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I think these all are linked into one big point, really, except the first one with which I disagree. They are standard issue Epi, "I am a Sooper Genius" mind games, imo. Does it make him bad, though? Possible. But whereas this chain of events would pretty much indict someone else, it is SOP for Epi.

I don't like it at all. No one has a license to act so sketchy. Epig is on my baddie list now. I don't care if your name is Epignosis or Snuffleupagus, if we just look the other way when suspicious behaviour happens, then we make it a cake walk that player when they are bad.

Although I don't think Epi is Kira, that is a pretty good point.

thellama73 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I think these all are linked into one big point, really, except the first one with which I disagree. They are standard issue Epi, "I am a Sooper Genius" mind games, imo. Does it make him bad, though? Possible. But whereas this chain of events would pretty much indict someone else, it is SOP for Epi.

I don't like it at all. No one has a license to act so sketchy. Epig is on my baddie list now. I don't care if your name is Epignosis or Snuffleupagus, if we just look the other way when suspicious behaviour happens, then we make it a cake walk that player when they are bad.

Although I don't think Epi is Kira, that is a pretty good point.

It takes me back to Jason Maher on LP, self-voting every single Day 1 vote. It's a cross-game shielding mechanism of "oh, he's always like that".

Why don't you think Epig is Kira?

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I think these all are linked into one big point, really, except the first one with which I disagree. They are standard issue Epi, "I am a Sooper Genius" mind games, imo. Does it make him bad, though? Possible. But whereas this chain of events would pretty much indict someone else, it is SOP for Epi.

I don't like it at all. No one has a license to act so sketchy. Epig is on my baddie list now. I don't care if your name is Epignosis or Snuffleupagus, if we just look the other way when suspicious behaviour happens, then we make it a cake walk that player when they are bad.

Although I don't think Epi is Kira, that is a pretty good point.

It takes me back to Jason Maher on LP, self-voting every single Day 1 vote. It's a cross-game shielding mechanism of "oh, he's always like that".

Why don't you think Epig is Kira?

Because he's not acting like I would expect him to act if he were Kira.

Frankly, I think a baddie Epi would have made a better case than the one he made on Russ, which I thought was pretty weak. There is no shortage of good cases to be made, and he is good at making them and pursuing them aggressively. Why would he make such an obviously weak case if he were bad? It doesn't seem like him.

thellama73 wrote:Frankly, I think a baddie Epi would have made a better case than the one he made on Russ, which I thought was pretty weak. There is no shortage of good cases to be made, and he is good at making them and pursuing them aggressively. Why would he make such an obviously weak case if he were bad? It doesn't seem like him.

Why would he make such an obviously weak case if he were Civ?

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Frankly, I think a baddie Epi would have made a better case than the one he made on Russ, which I thought was pretty weak. There is no shortage of good cases to be made, and he is good at making them and pursuing them aggressively. Why would he make such an obviously weak case if he were bad? It doesn't seem like him.

Why would he make such an obviously weak case if he were Civ?

Epi's motivations are his own, but my suspicion is that he never really believed it to begin with. Like SVS said, it might be one of his famous traps.

zeek wrote:I found myself agreeing with Epi over the D0 vote but since then he's lost me a bit. This little tiff with DH seems rather pointless to me, as it's not helping at all. We'll have to lynch one of these guys eventually if they can't let their egos cool off and cooperate. That said, maybe this is a calculated move by both of them.

We'll have to lynch you eventually if your criteria for baddieness is disagreement.

Just caught up with everything from the lynch onward. RIP Trice; my apologies for misreading the signals you were sending out.

@SVS

3. See 2, although "shoddy" is a bit hyperbole on your part tbh. And for me hyperbole=shoddy, so meh. But yeah, that seemed a very specific assumption re Russti when there are so many role secrets.

Shoddy is hyperbole? I wouldn't suspect him if he suspicion of Russ was any good, lol

As for this whole "Standard/Typical Epi" thing:

No. I get up in people''s business when they do this about AP and Vompatti, and I'mma do it here. You cannot excuse someone or give them a pass simply because what they are doing is "typical" of then. Especially if what they are doing is suspicious.

thellama73 wrote:I voted that MM should be modkilled because I like modkills. I also hate the second season theme song. It is so annoying. The first is much better.

Good to know your love of marmots didn't get in the way of your love of modkills.

I am not saying it makes him a detective; I think it likely he isn't one. My point was that suspecting him solely for these points doesn't say much; its like lynching DP for not posting, or lynching ZRFTS, Vomps or Wazz for being unusual. Lynching Epi for being Byzantine & arrogant is the same thing.

Although the Jason Maher point LC makes is a good one. Just because something is SOP doesn't mean it is OK or to be ignored.

Thats...thats what I said

S~V~S wrote:I am not saying it makes him a detective; I think it likely he isn't one. My point was that suspecting him solely for these points doesn't say much; its like lynching DP for not posting, or lynching ZRFTS, Vomps or Wazz for being unusual. Lynching Epi for being Byzantine & arrogant is the same thing.

Although the Jason Maher point LC makes is a good one. Just because something is SOP doesn't mean it is OK or to be ignored.

I think we should change the title under Epi's username to "Byzantine & Arrogant"

DharmaHelper wrote:Thats...thats what I said

I may need to bake some more cookies

Sop=standard operating procedure

DharmaHelper wrote:I was going to make a rather large post about why I suspect Epi, but I doubt it would get read, so instead I will make a list, and if anyone wants me to elaborate on any specific thing, let me know. I suspect Epi and will vote for him for the following reasons:

1) His fear mongering and shifty behavior in the D0 poll

I do not consider my Day 0 arguments "fear-mongering." I consider them rational and I am pleased that the most sensible option won out. Adding massive lynch manipulation doesn't help civilians. Period. Shouting fire in a crowded theater is perfectly acceptable if there's a fire.

DharmaHelper wrote:2) His Hypocritical suspicion of Rico's Lore-Based assumptions, given his own lore-based assumptions.

Again, my suspicion of Ricochet was not because of his lore-based assumptions, but if you insist on simplifying it as such, I won't stop you.

DharmaHelper wrote:3) His shoddy, lore-based reasoning for suspecting Russ.

My reasoning for suspecting Russ isn't lore-based. It's predicated on the fact that Russ has not posted at all. That's uncharacteristic of him; therefore I searched for explanations. That there is an episode entitled "Silence" that centered on two bad guys was, as I noted, a "delicious coincidence."

DharmaHelper wrote:The idea that he chose to suspect and claimed that he wanted to vote for Russ, who seemingly could not / cannot defend himself.

I am beginning to wonder if DharmaHelper believes that I am right about Russ, and this is his way of defending him.

For those wondering (like S~V~S), my suspicion of Russtifinko is genuine, not a ruse. I think I am right about him. However, he is not my only suspect, and I cannot lynch anyone by myself. There was more support for lynching FZ., so I joined that effort.

DharmaHelper wrote:5) The fact that he flaked out of this vote rather than sticking to his guns

Consider this carefully:

DharmaHelper wrote:Your second assumption gives you an excuse to place a vote on someone who will in all likelyhood be unable to stop you, or defend himself. It is also not a popular suspicion, so whoever DOES get lynched today, your hands will be clean. Pretty funny how that works out for you, aint it?

If I vote for Russ, DharmaHelper suspects me because I'm keeping my hands clean. If I do not vote for Russ, DharmaHelper suspects me because I didn't stick to my guns.

DharmaHelper has framed this scenario in such a way that he could vote for me no matter what I did.

DharmaHelper wrote:6) The fact that he did not want to explain why he did not stick to his guns.

You don't care about my explanation. You will vote for me no matter what.

++++

If you want to lynch me, that's okay. I will only be annoyed that I died early again in a game since I haven't really gotten to play since Thanksgiving. You won't eliminate Kira or a sympathizer. You will sacrifice a lynch. And some of you will remind yourselves (again) why you will never trust DharmaHelper.

thellama73 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Frankly, I think a baddie Epi would have made a better case than the one he made on Russ, which I thought was pretty weak. There is no shortage of good cases to be made, and he is good at making them and pursuing them aggressively. Why would he make such an obviously weak case if he were bad? It doesn't seem like him.

Why would he make such an obviously weak case if he were Civ?

Epi's motivations are his own, but my suspicion is that he never really believed it to begin with. Like SVS said, it might be one of his famous traps.

Do any of these so-called "famous traps" ever get results?

Just kidding I never intended to vote for Epi it was a trap! HAHA!

Epignosis wrote:I am of the persuasion now that Russtifinko has a role that prevents him from posting, and probably not a good one. He voted. He is present. But he is not posting.

Although I am determined to spoil nothing more for myself (and fucking did anyway), I did a quick Google search: "Death Note" silence.

Interestingly enough, the twenty-fifth episode of Death Note is entitled "Silence." It centers on Rem and Misa.

So huh.

Epignosis wrote:Russ is where I'll likely be voting. He was here and answered all the interrogation room questions. That means there is a game-related reason he isn't posting here, and I cannot surmise a civilian explanation for that.

Epignosis wrote:With all the secrets involved, it would not surprise me that Russti has a role that requires his silence. That there is a Death Note Episode entitled "Silence" featuring Rem and Misa is a delicious coincidence.

Epignosis wrote:I don't understand the purpose this kind of speculating has. Damn near every role has secrets.

Major linkage? You are no good sir.

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Frankly, I think a baddie Epi would have made a better case than the one he made on Russ, which I thought was pretty weak. There is no shortage of good cases to be made, and he is good at making them and pursuing them aggressively. Why would he make such an obviously weak case if he were bad? It doesn't seem like him.

Why would he make such an obviously weak case if he were Civ?

Epi's motivations are his own, but my suspicion is that he never really believed it to begin with. Like SVS said, it might be one of his famous traps.

Do any of these so-called "famous traps" ever get results?

I don't know, ask Epi.

Looking back Epi, you suspected FZ because of her absence as well, saying she is probably bad with SD. But FZ has since contributed quite a bit (though she did miss the lynch), and you never updated your suspicion to something current. If you did, then I can't find it.

I also fail to understand why two players are bad because they didn't post much on Day 0 or early Day 1.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Looking back Epi, you suspected FZ because of her absence as well, saying she is probably bad with SD. But FZ has since contributed quite a bit (though she did miss the lynch), and you never updated your suspicion to something current. If you did, then I can't find it.

I don't share your assessment of FZ. I think she has since posted a lot, but the content is not what I associate with good FZ. Good FZ. has a certain tenacity and assurance. She is a focused civilian, one that has proven dangerous to Mafia. I am not seeing that here.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I also fail to understand why two players are bad because they didn't post much on Day 0 or early Day 1.

The killers and the rest of Mafia do not begin with BTSC. This makes it difficult for them to scheme, and for that reason, I would expect more Mafia to take a backseat. I think some of these people might feign confusion.

Epignosis wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Looking back Epi, you suspected FZ because of her absence as well, saying she is probably bad with SD. But FZ has since contributed quite a bit (though she did miss the lynch), and you never updated your suspicion to something current. If you did, then I can't find it.

I don't share your assessment of FZ. I think she has since posted a lot, but the content is not what I associate with good FZ. Good FZ. has a certain tenacity and assurance. She is a focused civilian, one that has proven dangerous to Mafia. I am not seeing that here.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I also fail to understand why two players are bad because they didn't post much on Day 0 or early Day 1.

The killers and the rest of Mafia do not begin with BTSC. This makes it difficult for them to scheme, and for that reason, I would expect more Mafia to take a backseat. I think some of these people might feign confusion.

That's what I said

*gives self a cookie*

FWIW my biggest non-Epi suspects I would have to say are FZ and Zomberella.

DH I'm surprised you are seeing Zombrella as potentially bad. What are you seeing from her that leads you to that conclusion? I'm wondering what I missed.

juliets wrote:DH I'm surprised you are seeing Zombrella as potentially bad. What are you seeing from her that leads you to that conclusion? I'm wondering what I missed.

My third suspect is Zomberella for this post
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=541&start=120#p114692

Which I found suspicious because it reads to me like an early attempt to put suspicion on players, but not by directly accusing them. Rather, by accusing them by proxy via boo and having boo do the legwork/put the pieces of that case together, therefore making the results of the case boos responsibility.

This hasn't changed.

DharmaHelper wrote:

juliets wrote:DH I'm surprised you are seeing Zombrella as potentially bad. What are you seeing from her that leads you to that conclusion? I'm wondering what I missed.

My third suspect is Zomberella for this post
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=541&start=120#p114692

Which I found suspicious because it reads to me like an early attempt to put suspicion on players, but not by directly accusing them. Rather, by accusing them by proxy via boo and having boo do the legwork/put the pieces of that case together, therefore making the results of the case boos responsibility.

This hasn't changed.

I'm sorry. There are just so many posts I overlooked this one. Thanks!

juliets wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

juliets wrote:DH I'm surprised you are seeing Zombrella as potentially bad. What are you seeing from her that leads you to that conclusion? I'm wondering what I missed.

My third suspect is Zomberella for this post
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=541&start=120#p114692

Which I found suspicious because it reads to me like an early attempt to put suspicion on players, but not by directly accusing them. Rather, by accusing them by proxy via boo and having boo do the legwork/put the pieces of that case together, therefore making the results of the case boos responsibility.

This hasn't changed.

I'm sorry. There are just so many posts I overlooked this one. Thanks!

No need to apologize.

Epignosis wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I also fail to understand why two players are bad because they didn't post much on Day 0 or early Day 1.

The killers and the rest of Mafia do not begin with BTSC. This makes it difficult for them to scheme, and for that reason, I would expect more Mafia to take a backseat. I think some of these people might feign confusion.

I know someone who fits that description.

It's definitely unlike FZ to miss a lynch. I'm not sure what to make of it though. I don't suspect her much.

There could be something to the Z'rella case. I thought she was acting fishy re: Epi's vote.