The Syndicate

Quin wrote:Ricochet. This game does fit within the heist guidelines, right? :P

Similar question for the HOST:

Do you interpret "3 power role limit" as being limited to just the civilian faction, or to the entire game roster?

Clearly Elohcin's role is our only constant.

If we believe G-Man to be the cop, then Scotty as an indie makes three abilities already.

Scotty may have had a bulletproof vest. I've played with indies with vests before, so I think he just needs to survive to win if this is the case.

This leaves no room for a jailer or roleblocker

---

If we exclude G-Man from being the cop, we don't need to include Scotty as an indie (something he's been fighting pretty hard), and there is room for a doctor or something. In this case we still have one unrevealed role.

When Rico answers I'll be more concrete about what I think is the truth.

7

Quin wrote: Ricochet. This game does fit within the heist guidelines, right? :P

I'm afraid I can't answer that.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:Ricochet. This game does fit within the heist guidelines, right? :P

Similar question for the HOST:

Do you interpret "3 power role limit" as being limited to just the civilian faction, or to the entire game roster?

I would interpret the limiter to the full game roster.

Wait a minute: Scotty can be an independent with a roleblock as his power or among his powers. That could reconcile two of them.

I think someone is going to have to step up to the plate and tell us what happened here. If there's a civilian or independent roleblock in play, or a night kill protection, then speak up. Your testimony may be the only thing to prevent a stupid mislynch.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

G-Man wrote:Beats me then.

Possibilities that I can readily identify:

~ There are three non-vanilla roles in this game: cop, roleblocker, paranoid mafia leader. The roleblocker can belong to either faction. This would suit one of the scenarios you mentioned, but it doesn't explain Scotty as an independent. The roleblocker could have either prevented your cop peek or your night kill.

~ Baddie kill abstinence, meant to smear G-Man in a last-ditch effort to turn around a game collapsing over them. The roleblock can still come from either side. Scotty not accounted for.

~ Doctor protection on G-Man and a roleblocker. Too many roles, Scotty still unaccounted for.

~ G-Man himself abstained from a kill and prepared this explanation ahead of time.

---

G-Man: how do you know you were blocked?

Because I was told that I was blocked. No specification on how or by whom. Just that I was blocked.

I have to be honest about it because if the block came from a person, then they know I was blocked. If I tried to fake a peek, they would assume I am bad and come at me hard. I'm glad I didn't die but these circumstances suck.

All I know about Scotty is his role name and his alignment. My peek on him said nothing of any powers or abilities. Would an indy role who can win with either side count as one of the three non-vanilla roles even if it has no additional powers? Or could Scotty's role be the blocker?

Linki: great minds think alike, JJJ


4.03

G-Man: why peek the player who was already the most likely to be lynched today?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wait a minute: Scotty can be an independent with a roleblock as his power or among his powers. That could reconcile two of them.

Elohcin
Scotty
G-Man

Abstinent night kill

Is this your final answer, JumboJollyJim?

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wait a minute: Scotty can be an independent with a roleblock as his power or among his powers. That could reconcile two of them.

Elohcin
Scotty
G-Man

Abstinent night kill

Is this your final answer, JumboJollyJim?

Ehhh. This all seems like such a bizarre gambit if that's the case.

G-Man, how many posts did you make on Day 3 and Night 3?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wait a minute: Scotty can be an independent with a roleblock as his power or among his powers. That could reconcile two of them.

Elohcin
Scotty
G-Man

Abstinent night kill

Is this your final answer, JumboJollyJim?

Ehhh. This all seems like such a bizarre gambit if that's the case.

I've considered the effectiveness of withholding a night kill but I don't see it actually being done, especially right after a mafia was lynched. I personally think they'd try to kill the cop. But in turn, that means that the killer was either roleblocked or the target was protected. Either way, that's a fourth role. Ricochet's hosted heists before so I'm sure he knows to limit the amount of power roles appropriately.

My opinion is that G-Man isn't the cop, with therefore frees up Scotty from being indie. His avid disagreement with the claim makes me think he's being honest. It also means there's no roleblocker, and room for either a roleblocker or a doctor. He was right about Elohcin, which means he's either a really lucky imposter or it was, in fact, a bus.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:G-Man: why peek the player who was already the most likely to be lynched today?

Because I wanted to confirm her before lynching her. With my N1 and N2 peeks I was casting a wide net to possibly rule people out. Now I want to confirm.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:G-Man, how many posts did you make on Day 3 and Night 3?

22 and 3



4.04

G-Man, explain your rationale for your other peek choices as well.

My my.

Epignosis wrote:My my.

You you.

Epignosis wrote:My my.

Okay, but what are your thoughts?

Don't have any.

I'm thinking that I want my post count to end on either 4 9 or 13 this phase.

Scratch that.

"Need another beer" and "My ass hurts from driving all day."

Quin wrote:I'm thinking that I want my post count to end on either 4 9 or 13 this phase.

Those are really small numbers, meh

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:I'm thinking that I want my post count to end on either 4 9 or 13 this phase.

Those are really small numbers, meh

Or multiples of those numbers, of course.

I want to rebel.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:I'm thinking that I want my post count to end on either 4 9 or 13 this phase.

Those are really small numbers, meh

I have you at 121 posts on Day 2, ffs.

I am going to claim something that hopefully will help you narrow some options down. I am an Indy. I do not have a role power, I had a set of win conditions I had to fill out at the beginning but I don't have any ability to do anything to anyone and I have no vested interest in either side winning nor do they need me dead. It is for this reason I disbelieve the Scotty Indy peek and have implied this a coupl times already I the game. Two Indy roles in such a small game seems odd to say the least, plus Scotty has vehemently denied it. You can probably eliminate the idea of an Indy power role, it seems unlikely to me given what I shared.

Spacedaisy wrote:I am going to claim something that hopefully will help you narrow some options down. I am an Indy. I do not have a role power, I had a set of win conditions I had to fill out at the beginning but I don't have any ability to do anything to anyone and I have no vested interest in either side winning nor do they need me dead. It is for this reason I disbelieve the Scotty Indy peek and have implied this a coupl times already I the game. Two Indy roles in such a small game seems odd to say the least, plus Scotty has vehemently denied it. You can probably eliminate the idea of an Indy power role, it seems unlikely to me given what I shared.

Given your earlier resignation/willingness to be lynched, I am inclined to believe you at face value that you are independent and that you are not something we need to be worried about.

Are you able to tell us precisely what your role is? This would be very helpful in terms of narrowing down which roles really do exist in this game and which people are lying out of their arses.

Ricochet wrote:I have you at 121 posts on Day 2, ffs.

Mostly on my phone.

I'm pretty sure I can't tell you my role's name as per the rules given to us by Rico. Let me check with him to see what I can say before I go forward with anymore info. I hesitated to outright claim this earlier given our sites propensity for lynching Indy roles because they don't trust them, but I think now the info can be helpful to figuring out who can be trusted.

Took a piss and thought of this:

Lynch G-Man. If he's a cop, it proves there is a blocker, and the blocker is mafia. If he's mafia, great, and it is serious evidence the blocker is a civilian.

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm pretty sure I can't tell you my role's name as per the rules given to us by Rico. Let me check with him to see what I can say before I go forward with anymore info. I hesitated to outright claim this earlier given our sites propensity for lynching Indy roles because they don't trust them, but I think now the info can be helpful to figuring out who can be trusted.

After The Office, I won't be hurting any innocent independents. It's time someone took a stand.

Epignosis wrote:Took a piss and thought of this:

Lynch G-Man. If he's a cop, it proves there is a blocker, and the blocker is mafia. If he's mafia, great, and it is serious evidence the blocker is a civilian.

Great theory, until, you know, we lynch the cop.

Epignosis wrote:Took a piss and thought of this:

Lynch G-Man. If he's a cop, it proves there is a blocker, and the blocker is mafia. If he's mafia, great, and it is serious evidence the blocker is a civilian.

If there's a civilian blocker, he or she needs to just claim that shit right now.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Took a piss and thought of this:

Lynch G-Man. If he's a cop, it proves there is a blocker, and the blocker is mafia. If he's mafia, great, and it is serious evidence the blocker is a civilian.

If there's a civilian blocker, he or she needs to just claim that shit right now.

Not I, said the skeletor.

Quin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Took a piss and thought of this:

Lynch G-Man. If he's a cop, it proves there is a blocker, and the blocker is mafia. If he's mafia, great, and it is serious evidence the blocker is a civilian.

Great theory, until, you know, we lynch the cop.

The cop who should be dead by now?

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Took a piss and thought of this:

Lynch G-Man. If he's a cop, it proves there is a blocker, and the blocker is mafia. If he's mafia, great, and it is serious evidence the blocker is a civilian.

Great theory, until, you know, we lynch the cop.

The cop who should be dead by now?

\_(:T)_/

Okay. Rico confirmed that he interprets the three power role limit as covering the full scope of the player roster.

Confirmed non-vanilla roles:
~ Elohcin - paranoid mafia leader (1)

Claimed non-vanilla roles:
~ Spacedaisy - independent something (2)
~ G-Man - cop (3)
>>> G-Man claim comes equipped with Scotty as an independent (4)

It is impossible for both Spacedaisy and G-Man to be honest simultaneously unless G-Man's peek on Scotty was somehow incorrect or tampered with.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It is impossible

Unless this game does not fall within the heist guidelines, I guess.

I think he honored the guidelines though. He said as much in the sign-up thread.

Spacedaisy, did you roleblock G-Man?

HOST:

Do you interpret "power role" to mean "non-vanilla role" or "better than vanilla role"?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:HOST:

Do you interpret "power role" to mean "non-vanilla role" or "better than vanilla role"?

Define "better than vanilla role".

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:G-Man, explain your rationale for your other peek choices as well.

But of course.

My Day 0 peek (INH) was given to me by the host.

My Night 1 peek was Scotty. He was my #1 suspect on Day 1. As tempting as it was to check Epi or SVS (to people who I always am slow to embrace) I decided to stick with Scotty. He had a fair amount of suspicion on him despite not getting votes and that told me that the baddies were not likely to kill him.

My Night 2 peek was Elohcin. I thought her game was off. As I've said, she seemed too agreeable to sidle up to the theories of others. She really seemed to latch on to Epi's parsing of JJJ. Maybe she thought that he'd be inclined to defend her if she agreed with him enough. Not sure how their married-mafia dynamic works.

Both my host-given Day 0 peek and my Night 2 peek have been proven accurate. My Night 1 peek is still undetermined. If there is a secret component to my role that I am not privy to, maybe my peeks are only accurate every other night. I don't know.


4.05

You did not listen to what I said. I don't have a role power, I only have an Indy win con. I am by definition vanilla.

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:HOST:

Do you interpret "power role" to mean "non-vanilla role" or "better than vanilla role"?

Define "better than vanilla role".

Some might not consider the beloved princess to be a "power role", for example. It is non-vanilla, but it is only harmful and never beneficial to town (when a BP is lynched, the following day phase is skipped).

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:HOST:

Do you interpret "power role" to mean "non-vanilla role" or "better than vanilla role"?

Define "better than vanilla role".

Better question: do you consider roles with passive abilities (survivor with an either/or wincon) but no active power to be non-vanilla?


4.06

Spacedaisy wrote:You did not listen to what I said. I don't have a role power, I only have an Indy win con. I am by definition vanilla.

Oh, okay I see.

That opens thing back up then I suppose. That sort of role is quite common as a "survivor", someone who has no special abilities -- they must simply live until one of town or scum meets their win condition and they join that team in victory.

I'll back up and stop spamming the thread until there's been more involvement.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:HOST:

Do you interpret "power role" to mean "non-vanilla role" or "better than vanilla role"?

Sloonei would punch you in the face for this statement.

G-Man: you peeked S~V~S to be sure before lynching her.

I would have expected you to peek me on Night 2 after my spat with Epignosis and your visible leaning in his favor even if you didn't commit entirely. Why didn't you peek me?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:HOST:

Do you interpret "power role" to mean "non-vanilla role" or "better than vanilla role"?

Define "better than vanilla role".

Some might not consider the beloved princess to be a "power role", for example. It is non-vanilla, but it is only harmful and never beneficial to town (when a BP is lynched, the following day phase is skipped).

Well, I fear we're getting complicated here, because I would actually consider a BP to be a power role - the BP can trigger an event that's integrated in the game.

I'll try this for an answer: I interpret "power roles" as ability i.e. the power to perform an action or trigger an event within the game. Therefore, if vanilla means having no ability, power roles are distinct from vanilla roles.

G-Man wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:HOST:

Do you interpret "power role" to mean "non-vanilla role" or "better than vanilla role"?

Define "better than vanilla role".

Better question: do you consider roles with passive abilities (survivor with an either/or wincon) but no active power to be non-vanilla?

4.06

Open to interpretation, but I would lean on no. Is "having to survive / surviving the game" really an ability? If answer is no, then it doesn't fall within "power roles". If, on the other hand, one regards anything besides "you are X, alignment z, vanilla" to fall within "power roles", then

Cool, thanks for answering Rico.

I'm the civillian Jailer. I jailed G-Man and prevented the NK.