The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:31 am Players I’d confidently argue are not mafia:
Ultra
Macdougall
Sabie
Dragomir
juliets

Players I’m not inclined to lynch, but not totally sold on either:
nutella
MafiaMenace
Epignosis

Players I either suspect or don’t feel strongly about:
Everyone else

I have some similar thoughts:

Town leaning:
Ultra
Sloonei
Sable
Mac

Not inclined to Lynch:
DDL - liked him early on, waiting to see more
MafiaMenace - would like to see a little more from him
Epi
nutella
Matahari

Don't feel strongly about or suspect:
All others.

Special Notes:
[mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] is making me a little nervous. I know she's got her own game but there's not a lot going on there yet.
[mention]Cooler[/mention] is new to me but he or she needs to post more. Maybe they were just waiting for Day 1.
[mention]sprityo[/mention] I want to see some meat from him, but I have lynched him too many times for not doing anything and have been wrong.

Why are you not inclined to lynch matahari, [mention]juliets[/mention]

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:51 am Why are you not inclined to lynch matahari, @juliets

I haven't seen anything she's done that looked bad, and what I have seen looks fine to me. She marches to the beat of her own drummer with regard to things she looks into. There was one question she asked here that I think people took exception to because it didn't seem important (hope I'm remembering that right) but that's just how she is in my mind. I'll see if I can pull some quotes to illustrate.

#goodolsloonlynchintime

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:07 pm #goodolsloonlynchintime

What else you got, doctor?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:10 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:07 pm #goodolsloonlynchintime

What else you got, doctor?

That's about it. Mac is good.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention], so here are some more specific thoughts on mata:

Matahari wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:56 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:44 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:43 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:29 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:27 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 3:09 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 pm Question regarding the no claims rule - does that mean if you're the cop/tracker/whatever you can't state your results?

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm Hot take

Felicity player should use her one shot on Rip Hunter to prevent Cult Shenanigans

MM, what was the point of this post? Were you answering someone, because I couldn’t find anything that indicated that.

Crap ton of linki

Okay, I can see the Matahari scumread earlier.

What scumread?

Epignosis earlier came with "I suspect Matahari" when nobody else even seemed to notice you posting at all.

As I hadn’t even posted in the game, I assumed Epi was being goofy. How can you suspect someone who hasn’t even checked in yet?
@nutella I asked about the point of MM’s post because he quoted two posts of Ultras in the order that Ultra originally posted them. After noting that the game was a no claim game, Ultra started working on a way to claim without openly claiming. I wondered whether MM was trying to bring attention to that. I looked back through other posts, but I couldn’t find one that asked MM a question about Ultra, so I asked why he posted that.

First, her reason for seeing Epi's post as "goofy" was Imo exactly what Epi was doing. I wouldn't call it "goofy" as much as I would say it was him pulling reactions but her point still stands - he was not serious about seeing her as bad before she had even posted.

Second, I didn't understand those two posts MafiaMenace made either so her question to him was legit imo. It wasn't a question on the main topics of the day but that didn't concern me at all. It's a question that I easily could have asked a new player that I was trying to understand.

Matahari wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 5:08 pm
I don’t have any solid impressions on players so far. I don’t know a few of the players at all, and I know most players who are old school here. My typical approach is to read along, try to form opinions about how people interact with each other, ask questions if I don’t understand what people are trying to say, and I rarely post a ton. It usually take two to three days in old school games before I get solid feels on a player.

Sloonei this was in response to some questions you asked her. This is exactly how I remember Mata as a civ player and as far as I remember it is exactly how she played in Steeley Dan up to the point where she got info. (She was civ in that game)

Matahari wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:06 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:31 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:21 pm It’s hard for me to imagine making lists so early. I tried to make one today, but after rereading the game, and some ISOs, I don’t feel like I have much of an opinion on anyone. I can’t clear anyone, but there are a few that I don’t feel great about.

Dragomir, seems like he changes his mind too easily and it might not be a bad thing (like being blendy and trying to stay on people’s good side) but it still caught my attention.

Sloonei, I would like to trust him but all the pushing for info from people, the gth on day 0, seems tailor made for helping mafia. Talk is great, it helps to be able to look back at it later in the game, and that helps town. But I’ve never seen anyone keep at it like Sloonei.

Nutella, is not playing the same as the last two games I played with her. She was town in those games, and she seems a lot less pulled together so far.

I can’t say that any of them would get a vote from me. Not yet. Basically, I’m still observing people.

Tons of linki

Talk to me some more about nutella. What specifically seems different? Can you point to any posts in particular that stand out to you?

In the last two games, Nutella had confidence. The kind that seems like normal Nutella, who will say anything, whether you like it or not. Also, the kind of confidence that only a civ has. For reference, Gossip Girl and Steely Dan mafia

I’m not seeing it here. She’s not bold, rude, in your face, or any of the normal Nutella. I can’t fault her for not picking people’s posts apart and challenging them, because really, the posting hasn’t been especially suspicious, but I think she would be challenging more if she were civ. She seems like she’s holding back. That’s the best way I can explain it. That is going by old skool ‘feels’ and probably not helpful to newer mafia players.
I wouldn’t swear I’m right, but it’s enough that she’s on my watchlist.

She does give a read here about nutella that is detailed and comes across authentic to me. I can't say that I agree with it but I don't see bad in people just because they have an opinion that differs from my own. Again, this post is representative of the style I remember as civ mata.

In my read I'm saying that I wouldn't vote for her today, not that I wouldn't vote for her period. I see enough that reminds me of her civ self and nothing I would call bad. I will however look back at your analysis of her to make sure I am not blinded by what I know of her.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:10 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:07 pm #goodolsloonlynchintime

What else you got, doctor?

That's about it. Mac is good.

What have I done to make you think I’m bad?

juliets wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:13 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:29 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:25 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:40 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:33 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:30 pm
Don't really buy it but ok.

What part do you not buy? I don’t need you to agree with my case, but it seems like you’re disagreeing with it by virtue of flat out misunderstanding, and I compulsively need to bridge that gap.

Sometimes mafia make mistakes. Sometimes they are not authentic. I try to catch them being not authentic. That is what I accused nutella of.

Don't buy her subconsciously slipping like that. Sounds like a stretch.

This is suspicious stuff from Dragomir. First of all, just because Sloon said that a phony tone could "slip into her posts", that's a far cry from her actually slipping in some way. It's a tone read, not a slip. Is this a cultural misunderstanding of the ways to use the word "slip"? Comes off as hamfisted deliberate misunderstanding, and, coupled with a possible TMI defense of nutella, it's suspicious.

I thought he was saying that she actually slipped there, wasn't thinking tone read but thanks for the clear up.

TMI? Where?

Enh, your recent Civ-read of her to Sloon, which is pretty unsupported... that opinion was bolstered by your part in Slipgate, but if you truly misunderstood Sloonei's post then I can back-burner it for now.

Day Zero, surface-level... that is legit enough to me. We all need our Day Zero warmup suspicions though, so I'm your #1 fan right now.

LC, I'm trying to understand the scum read on Drago. In the post above he asks you what the TMI on nutella means. I think your response is the "Day Zero, surface level...that is legit enough to me" sentence. Can you be more specific? I don't understand what you means by "surface level" - are you referring to a post he made?

Actually, the answer to Drac was "your recent Civ-read of her to Sloon, which is pretty unsupported... that opinion was bolstered by your part in Slipgate".

"Day Zero, surface level...that is legit enough to me" - that's more talking about my suspicion of Draco - it's legit enough for me to want to keep an eye on him and not put him in my hypothetical green column.

Thanks juliets. I believe your read is sincere. This is the first time I’ve ever played with Marahari, so I can’t comment on her behavior as it relates to past games. My read on her is gonna be determined by the direction her reads take as the game develops.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:38 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:13 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:29 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:25 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:40 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:33 pm
What part do you not buy? I don’t need you to agree with my case, but it seems like you’re disagreeing with it by virtue of flat out misunderstanding, and I compulsively need to bridge that gap.

Sometimes mafia make mistakes. Sometimes they are not authentic. I try to catch them being not authentic. That is what I accused nutella of.

Don't buy her subconsciously slipping like that. Sounds like a stretch.

This is suspicious stuff from Dragomir. First of all, just because Sloon said that a phony tone could "slip into her posts", that's a far cry from her actually slipping in some way. It's a tone read, not a slip. Is this a cultural misunderstanding of the ways to use the word "slip"? Comes off as hamfisted deliberate misunderstanding, and, coupled with a possible TMI defense of nutella, it's suspicious.

I thought he was saying that she actually slipped there, wasn't thinking tone read but thanks for the clear up.

TMI? Where?

Enh, your recent Civ-read of her to Sloon, which is pretty unsupported... that opinion was bolstered by your part in Slipgate, but if you truly misunderstood Sloonei's post then I can back-burner it for now.

Day Zero, surface-level... that is legit enough to me. We all need our Day Zero warmup suspicions though, so I'm your #1 fan right now.

LC, I'm trying to understand the scum read on Drago. In the post above he asks you what the TMI on nutella means. I think your response is the "Day Zero, surface level...that is legit enough to me" sentence. Can you be more specific? I don't understand what you means by "surface level" - are you referring to a post he made?

Actually, the answer to Drac was "your recent Civ-read of her to Sloon, which is pretty unsupported... that opinion was bolstered by your part in Slipgate".

"Day Zero, surface level...that is legit enough to me" - that's more talking about my suspicion of Draco - it's legit enough for me to want to keep an eye on him and not put him in my hypothetical green column.

OH! Ok I totally misunderstood what you were saying. I'll go back and revisit what he said with your comment in mind, thanks.

I don’t know what “slipgate” is in this game.

Ok, juliets is doing her thing now. Happy birthday and hope all the medical stuff goes as well as it can

I see her perspective on mata and I'm coming around on that. Still want to see more interactive content from mata.

I also strongly agree with juliets about Daisy and sprit. Want to see more from them. And DDL too, I haven't mindmelded with him yet which might be a bad sign lol, and I know he said he wouldn't get to play much until later I am anxious to see what his thoughts are.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] what do you make of LC's assertion that Drago's defense to you of nutella is TMI? I read through the defense again but I'm not seeing the TMI aspect, it just sounds like his thoughts to me. The slipgate thing that LC says bolsters the argument is that you said something about a phony tone that slips into nutella's posts and Drago responded as if you had said she scum slipped. LC's point is Drago's response was an attempt to discredit what you said about a "scum slip" (which you never said). I hope that made sense.

As I pointed out earlier, there is no TMI in a multi-mafia game so I really don't get why LC said that.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 1:38 pm As I pointed out earlier, there is no TMI in a multi-mafia game so I really don't get why LC said that.

You did point that out, it slipped my mind completely. So the TMI makes no sense.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention], cancel my question unless you disagree with what we are saying here.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 1:35 pm @Sloonei what do you make of LC's assertion that Drago's defense to you of nutella is TMI? I read through the defense again but I'm not seeing the TMI aspect, it just sounds like his thoughts to me. The slipgate thing that LC says bolsters the argument is that you said something about a phony tone that slips into nutella's posts and Drago responded as if you had said she scum slipped. LC's point is Drago's response was an attempt to discredit what you said about a "scum slip" (which you never said). I hope that made sense.

In addition to the "No TMI in multiball" argument, I didn't see anything in Dragomir's behavior that would have suggested TMI anyway. He looked like a player with a townread on nutella and a scum read on me.

Thanks Sloonei, that's what I got when I read it through again.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] I know the weekends, especially Sunday, are busy for you but I would really appreciate getting some thoughts and reads from you today if at all possible. Anything you can give would be appreciated.

I have to take a break for awhile but will be back later.

I’m going to make a quick post and may be scarce until after GoT tonight.
happy birthday Juliet’s, and I’m sorry for your troubles

I saw a glimpse of confident Nutella, so maybe I’m concentrating too hard on players I’m familiar with, instead of trying to get a grip on players I don’t know. I’ll backburner her for now.

The TMI comments mentioned above are something I will reread tonight. I have forgotten much of it, but it occurred to me that because of certain roles in this game, there is a possibility of TMI. But I don’t know the context of the tmi posts until I get time to read later.

So happy/sad GoT day! I’ll try to peek in but cooking and company....

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:36 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:10 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:07 pm #goodolsloonlynchintime

What else you got, doctor?

That's about it. Mac is good.

What have I done to make you think I’m bad?

Gut feeling sloonbug.

nnnnng gotta reread the thread and get some solid leads

gotta do something before I die N1

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 2:58 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:36 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:10 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:07 pm #goodolsloonlynchintime

What else you got, doctor?

That's about it. Mac is good.

What have I done to make you think I’m bad?

Gut feeling sloonbug.

wilgy bad

My weekend of no commitments is about to come to an end, so expect my pace to drop off a bit moving forward. I know that many of you will be devastated over this.

Caught up. On day 1. Day 0 will probably be buried in some alterntive dimension where I had a free weekend.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:28 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:20 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:14 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:10 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:18 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:05 pm Are you trying to say that because the suggestion makes no sense and I thought your iso made no sense?

No.

Part of your accusation against me was that I accused nutella to try to impress others/make myself look good/potentially establish myself as "deepwolf", if I am understanding you correctly. These are your words.

Then MafiaMenace suggests the possibility of another player being "deepwolf", and these are your words:

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:45 pm Deepwolf in D0 already?

You seemed to be accusing me of deepwolfing on Day 0, but then you cast doubt on MafiaMenace for suggesting the possibility of the same characteristics in a different player.

Yes you were trying to establish yourself as a deepwolf but I just don't believe someone can become one D0. Becoming one requires multiple DPs of powerwolfing, this DP was just one of those for you. Someone powerwolfing in order to become a deepwolf D0 is different from someone being a deepwolf outright in D0 and the latter is what I don't believe.

Or, you know, Sloonei is a civilian.

Or, you know, he's not.

You’re making the same mistakes as last game.

Don't really like the tone of this post. Feels arrogant, and I tend to associate that to baddies.

I don't get why there is a juliets case though I usually can't read juliets anyway.

But I saw some people saying most of her posts were just promises of catching up and I have to ask how that is not NAI anyway.

Understanding this game without reading 15 pages is hard, but I'll get into the groove eventually.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 3:44 pm Understanding this game without reading 15 pages is hard, but I'll get into the groove eventually.

Just keep poking around and it’ll come together.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 3:42 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:28 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:20 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:14 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:10 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:18 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 6:05 pm Are you trying to say that because the suggestion makes no sense and I thought your iso made no sense?

No.

Part of your accusation against me was that I accused nutella to try to impress others/make myself look good/potentially establish myself as "deepwolf", if I am understanding you correctly. These are your words.

Then MafiaMenace suggests the possibility of another player being "deepwolf", and these are your words:

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 4:45 pm Deepwolf in D0 already?

You seemed to be accusing me of deepwolfing on Day 0, but then you cast doubt on MafiaMenace for suggesting the possibility of the same characteristics in a different player.

Yes you were trying to establish yourself as a deepwolf but I just don't believe someone can become one D0. Becoming one requires multiple DPs of powerwolfing, this DP was just one of those for you. Someone powerwolfing in order to become a deepwolf D0 is different from someone being a deepwolf outright in D0 and the latter is what I don't believe.

Or, you know, Sloonei is a civilian.

Or, you know, he's not.

You’re making the same mistakes as last game.

Don't really like the tone of this post. Feels arrogant, and I tend to associate that to baddies.

Maybe it’s arrogant, but not because I’m bad. Dragomir indicated after the scrimmage that he wanted to improve his game while playing here. I’m honestly just trying to help him see the game in a different light. He tunneled his suspects last game and it cost him.

Sorry, weekend hangover got me today.

I got plenty of stuff to do and also I'm not feeling well, but I'll try to play.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:49 am Town leaning:
Ultra
Sloonei
Sable
Mac

I don't remember sabie doing anything. Why is he/she a townread?

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 3:56 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:49 am Town leaning:
Ultra
Sloonei
Sable
Mac

I don't remember sabie doing anything. Why is he/she a townread?

Can I answer this for myself? I gave sabie a town read first.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:01 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 3:56 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:49 am Town leaning:
Ultra
Sloonei
Sable
Mac

I don't remember sabie doing anything. Why is he/she a townread?

Can I answer this for myself? I gave sabie a town read first.

Sure, preferably don't make me sleep though.

This post is why I town read sabie: I asked her for reads on a few players and she gave them. Not content to be contained by the parameters of my question, sabie then volunteered a handful of additional reads on other players.

This honest and eager forthcoming sabie. I look forward to hearing more from her when she gets the chance.

Those two posts alone don't seem to convince me.

Do you use more "put efforts on reads" vs "didn't" on reading people or do you use more "sophisticated" methods?

Also, is there a thing called meta on this site?

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:11 pm Do you use more "put efforts on reads" vs "didn't" on reading people or do you use more "sophisticated" methods?

What

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:11 pm Also, is there a thing called meta on this site?

Yes.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:12 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:11 pm Do you use more "put efforts on reads" vs "didn't" on reading people or do you use more "sophisticated" methods?

What

The sites I play are less sort through whether someone posted reads or not.

I can't in good conscience vote for juliets on her birthday Day 1. She's engaging more now too.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:12 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:11 pm Also, is there a thing called meta on this site?

Yes.

Based on your personal experience with sabie, is that still AI for her?

I think nutella is town too.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:17 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:12 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:11 pm Do you use more "put efforts on reads" vs "didn't" on reading people or do you use more "sophisticated" methods?

What

The sites I play are less sort through whether someone posted reads or not.

I still do not know what exactly you are saying here.

But what I think you are getting at is that I appear to be giving sabie a pass just for sharing reads. I can explain my read in more detail. It involves meta, to answer your other question.

I don’t think I’ve seen scum sabie before maybe once? I don’t know. But in any case, I find it encouraging for her, based on what I know about her as a player, that she was willing to share reads beyond what was asked of her.

Often when I’m interrogating players, I feel that baddies tend to to only answer questions to the extent that they’re asked. They just try to satisfy their interrogator and move on. Sabie got a question, answered it, and then took it a step further.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:18 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:12 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:11 pm Also, is there a thing called meta on this site?

Yes.

Based on your personal experience with sabie, is that still AI for her?

Yes. Absolutely. See the explanation I just provided.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:19 pm I think nutella is town too.

Why?

Who isn’t?

Okay, I'll trust you.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:23 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 4:19 pm I think nutella is town too.

Why?

She's been unnecessarily sticking out her neck too much.

Who isn’t?

Anyone I haven't called town yet (not counting my very early reads).