The Syndicate

espers wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:[Regarding espers, here's what I most recently had to say, for reference. As the Day has progressed, I've realized yet again that he's consistently failed to deliver. And despite otherwise meaningful and well-intended content, his D1 switch/vote strikes me as quite suspicious.

MP, what did you mean here by "consistently failed to deliver"? I've been doing my best with the time I've had available.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Cookie wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Cookie wrote:What? I decided to change my vote to follow someone else because what they said made sense to me? Once I read the links MP posted, I remembered what DDL had said about DH earlier. How does that make me suspicious? I voted on a hunch. I did not think that my suspicions against DDL or Espers were strong enough to vote for them, especially when I was uncertain of my vote against Golden (and look where that got us - life without Golden). When I reread what DDL posted, I had remembered their conversation. It was quite an easy change of heart.

So you went from having two suspects, not strong, then to reading a series of posts and suddenly having a suspect that eclipsed your thoughts of the other two, with enough confidence to vote?

My problem with it is that you never explained your thought process.

Was I supposed to just not vote if I wasn't confident on anyone?

You don't really seem interested in baddie hunting.

Is that true?

I have zero confidence in my abilities to baddie hunt, therefore, I am following others in their suspicions, mostly. I have played this game before, however, never really had to scumhunt. I've always gone by hunches and power roles and unfortunately, this isn't working out that well for me in this game.

I understand, Cookie. I know how it is to be new to the game. We just need you to really try here. The problem I had with your vote is that you had no accompanying, satisfying explanation. I felt the same was true of your Golden vote.

Be confident in your own assessments of players. Feel free to use others' thoughts to guide you and strengthen you. I personally can understand, believe it or not. For years, I was a terrible civilian, and I still don't think I'm that great -- particularly by myself. Town is a team.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

juliets wrote:Hello everyone! I have been skimming this game but not studying the game and I have no idea right now who I think is bad so I won't be voting in this vote thats in an hour or so. Like Spacedaisy I'm not going to try and go back and read everything though I am going to read these few superlong posts that just got posted.

The reason I didn't sign up for this game or Frisky Dingo is I am traveling a great deal in the next month starting next Saturday. I have internet once I get to where I'm going but while traveling in the car all day I have nothing. I will warn you when one of those travel days is coming and we'll just see how it works out.

Ok I'll be reading tonight whats current and also picking up some past ISO's.

linki
linki

I understand, juliets. Thanks for subbing in! If I have time, I may even make some summary posts for you, with links if you ever wish to view them for detail. I'd love to, it's just a matter of time available to do so. Or maybe someone else will get to it.

Also, timmer, I'm really going to miss playing this game with you, buddy. Hopefully we'll get to play again together soon.

G-Man wrote:I'll have to re-read Day 3 to see what I missed. Doesn't look like it will take long.

Long Con wrote:LoRab
Bass_the_Clever
Cookie
MovingPictures07
espers
Russtifinko
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
juliets
Ricochet
G-Man
Metalmarsh89
Long Con

I put all the names in a list and then coloured them beautifully. I held a gun to my own head and made myself order the players based on how I feel about them right now.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Long Con wrote:LoRab
Bass_the_Clever
Cookie
MovingPictures07
espers
Russtifinko
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
juliets
Ricochet
G-Man
Metalmarsh89
Long Con

I put all the names in a list and then coloured them beautifully. I held a gun to my own head and made myself order the players based on how I feel about them right now.

Interesting, why Lorab and Bass?

MovingPictures07 wrote: Dragon D. Luffy, thanks for examining my posts. I was hoping someone would do this.

Do you have any questions for me, given your analysis? I read it all, relatively quickly, and while it inevitably had your subjective lens of trying to see if my actions had mafia explanations, I think you overall did a good job.

MovingPictures07 wrote:As I noted earlier, it is generally my mafia meta to, especially under pressure of the early game, throw my teammates under the bus, rather than defend them. What you consider I did here with Sloonei would be sloppy and not like my meta. That said, obviously, that's WIFOM. I realize it's WIFOM. And I realize that I'm prone to mistakes and always willing to change up my style and approach from game to game. But I at least wanted it said.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also, I must call out the bolded/underlined. Do you not believe I formed opinions? I believe I did.

MovingPictures07 wrote:FWIW, espers, you're no longer at the bottom of my rainbow, that's for sure.

DDL, what do you think about music?
What about Naruto?
What about FMAB?
What about sports?
What about the weather?
What about foreign policy?
What about mathematics?
What about literature?
What about top hats?
Monocles?

:P

Long Con wrote:That summary was excellent, Rico. Yeah, that's the core of my Bass suspicion, plus some gut feelings about him.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I seemed to have missed it. Who did you replace juliets?

Bass_the_Clever wrote:This post seems off to me and its not because you didn't like my joke. Almost this whole post is you trying to get on MP's good side. I have seen mafia do this in the past early in games. They suck up to a vocal player who they think comes across civvie.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Spoiler: show

Scotty wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Scotty wrote:Hey MP! I see you're one of those wordy, verbose types always with a smile on your face. You remind me of that big-eyed, bushy-tailed front desk attendant at the gym today. She was positively beaming when I walked in, so I asked her if she was recently hired, and she said she was the manager of that location and had been working there for 2 years. Goes to show that if you love your job, then you'll be just fine. Also that I apparently am blind if I missed her over the past year. But I digress.

It sounds like you love your job here. And I think that's pretty cool for the community. It's always cool to have a light in a dark, pixelated wasteland. (Note: This doesn't excuse you from suspicion, mind you. I have none at the moment..but down the line, don't think you can just bat your eyelashes and expect to let your voting patterns go unnoticed)

Seems we share the sentiment of eyeing no-shows in Day 1. I also want to clarify that I feel the day 1 vote is a crapshoot, but only in the sense that we don't know anything. You guys know how other regulars usually play, but I don't have that luxury, so, for instance, when MetalMarsh is incredibly vague and unhelpful in the first few days, and I get suspicious of that, someone informs me that "that's how he usually plays," and I've got conflicting feelings in that a) it is hearsay and b) what am I supposed to do with that information in regards to my reads?

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I'm voting for the Comedian’s gun.
I also think I will be voting MM day one. He always seems like he is bad. lol

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Thats was a joke.

That was a terrible joke. No offense.
I'm looking forward to what you have to offer in Day 1, Bass.

This post seems off to me and its not because you didn't like my joke. Almost this whole post is you trying to get on MP's good side. I have seen mafia do this in the past early in games. They suck up to a vocal player who they think comes across civvie.

I don't see this as sucking up at all. You'll notice that I have this weird tendency to apply gameplay and reads to my real life in the forms of short stories sometimes. Partly because I'm neurotic, partly because I'm eccentric, and partly because I'm neurotic.

My poking you was because of how I saw you play in the last game, and I want to see you explain more behind your votes/statements before I start accusing you and making the same mistake I made last time. Just generally talking more will do.
It was just that you had 3 posts at the time, and you chose to use MM as a piñata, so it piqued my curiosity.

Now that I've responded, are you currently suspecting anyone?

I guess sucking up might not be the best term but it seems like you were buddying up to him. I have done it and others have too when they are mafia so its something I look for now. I will be keeping a eye on you for that reason.
I also don't like how G-man pharsed his "I'm not bad" statement and will also bbe considering voting for him.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Golden wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Yeah, sorry, was posting as catching up. I see you had already let it be known by that point

What do you think of the adverb/smiley line of reasoning, both generally and as it pertains to me this game? What is your read on me right now?

Why do you care what people think about you right now? You asked Llama this same question.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I don't know what it is but you seem kinda off this game.

Bass_the_Clever wrote: I agree that asking questions is meta for you but you only asked Golden and Llama what they thought about you. I thought it was strange that you only asked those two people.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I'm going to go ahead and vote Scotty. His buddying up to MP pinged me at first. MP pointed out that Scotty has been part of the discussion with out throwing out any of his own suspects. He also made a big deal about me voting late in B.O.B and he has yet to vote so I found that odd.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I'm going to go ahead and vote my good friend MM. Out I'm really not comfortable vote any of them, In Econ he was quick to throw his teammates under the bus so I don't think he would have defended Slooni if they were on a team. Nothing Russ or LC have said made me think they are bad.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch LoRab tomorrow.

MovingPictures07 wrote:good question!

espers

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Dragon D. Luffy, thanks for examining my posts. I was hoping someone would do this.

Do you have any questions for me, given your analysis? I read it all, relatively quickly, and while it inevitably had your subjective lens of trying to see if my actions had mafia explanations, I think you overall did a good job.

Honestly it was not meant to be completely impartial. I started the whole thing because I got a feeling that your vote for Scotty was fishy. So I went to your ISO and intended to make a case on that. But as I loooked at your ISO and tried to pinpoint how your suspicion on Scotty developed, I saw other things that looked suspicious to me. So I decided to do a full read on your d1 suspicions.

It's not really impartial because I looked at the whole thing assuming you have suspicious votes/reads. It could be more objective if I did the same thing about other players and compared it, though I dunno if I have the patience to do that for everyone. Maybe 1 or 2 players.

But either way, this isn't the first time I do that kind of analysis, and the other time I did it I caught the godfather, so I'm fairly confident on it. If anything, I'm gonna keep a closer attention at your votes from now on. Something tells me your vote on Cookie had a similar progression.

MovingPictures07 wrote:As I noted earlier, it is generally my mafia meta to, especially under pressure of the early game, throw my teammates under the bus, rather than defend them. What you consider I did here with Sloonei would be sloppy and not like my meta. That said, obviously, that's WIFOM. I realize it's WIFOM. And I realize that I'm prone to mistakes and always willing to change up my style and approach from game to game. But I at least wanted it said.

lol, you already did my job by pointing the WIFOM. Anyway, styles can change. From what I heard, once upon a time you never bussed people at all, until the time you started doing it. Also, when was the last time you were baddie in a game? I heard your civ playstyle changed after you went playing games on other sites, and that wasn't a long time ago. Maybe your baddie style changed too?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also, I must call out the bolded/underlined. Do you not believe I formed opinions? I believe I did.

Ok, this one is kind of pointless to argue because it assumes alignment. If you are a civ, then obviously you're forming opinions. If you are bad, then obviously you're faking them.

I don't particulary think you're not forming opinions, though I do think your opinions on d1 had a tendency to follow the flow of other players. Except in Sloonei's case. You placed him as your #1 suspect when nobody else did, and dropped it before anyone caught up, then vehemently defended him as his bandwagon progressed. Maybe this is your new style for bussing?

juliets wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch LoRab tomorrow.

Metalmarsh, I read what Rico said about Lorab but I'd like to know what you've seen that makes you want to lynch her next. If you did an iso already on her just tell me.

LoRab wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

LoRab wrote:I'm of 2 minds with the GMan stuff.

On the one hand, back in the day (when GMan was a regular) on LP/Piano, lie detector roles and statements became a thing and how people phrase statements and asking everyone to make "An LD Statement" became something of a controversy. In addition/as a result, in many games, "I am a civie" wasn't a detectable statement, so people would often not use it and got in the habit of not just saying that.

That being said, the way he phrased it doesn't sound like a way a civie would describe themselves, even with phrasing it differently. What he posted earlier sounds like something that is a baddie trying to describe themselves with a true statement on a technicality (like, if they don't have a power that can be used to harm a civie, they technically aren't a threat). And his explanation doesn't ring so true to me.

There are also roles with secrets, and we don't know how those statements might have an impact on an LD role. He could have been waiting for clarification on how a statement of "I am a civie" would show up. on G Man. Leaning towards a vote in that direction.

Do you think a scum player would voluntarily leave such an honest statement in the thread like that? It's incredibly easy for a baddie to simply say "I'm not bad", and I have a hars time believing that G-man's conscience would have gotten to him that much, if that is what you are saying in part.

Do you have your eye on anyone other than G-man?

I think a baddie would possibly do that, yes. When there is a lie detector, baddies do all sorts of things in posts in order to try to avoid outright lying while making themselves seem like they're claiming to be civ. I've seen it happen before, especially when they've been called out for phrasing things oddly.

What doesn't make sense is that saying "I am civ" might be seen as role claiming. That just doesn't make sense to me.

LoRab wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

LoRab wrote:

Sloonei wrote:If you think G-man phrased his post oddly because of he was wary of the lie detector, does hos exact wording mean anything to you? He does not "pose a threat to the civvies." Does that strike you as the sort of thing scum would say to avoid being caught by a lie detector.
His rationale about not claiming civ due to role claim restrictions does seem a bit odd, i'll give you that.
And I'll also ask for more suspects again. Who besides G-man are you looking at, LoRab?

"Does not pose a threat to the civies" does seem like the sort of thing a baddie would say, yes. Especially if they don't have a power that doesn't have a direct, negative impact on others.

And, at this point, no one else is standing out to me. I'm often a 1 suspect at a time kind of gal. Also, day 1, so not much to go on.

Does this mean your mind and vote are set on G-man today?

I wouldn't say set, but if nothing else comes up and he doesn't say something to convince me, that is likely where I will vote, yes.

Also, as to another post you made (that I forgot to quote), if he was trying to attract the lie detector, then why do so with what is potentially an undetectable statement (a threat to civs can be a matter of opinion as to what that means)...unless you were trying to make sure that a teammate wasn't LD-ed?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm on campus for most of today, so I can't do a lot of analysis until later tonight, at the earliest.

I have to say, I don't think this is Bass's baddie game, folks. I feel pretty good about him, at least right now. I don't think he and Sloonei were distancing; if so, Bass's baddie game has definitely improved.

To LC and DDL: Do either of you have any questions you want me to answer to alleviate any of your suspicion?

DDL, I read your post, but don't have much of anything to add or defend against, since inevitably your opinion of my Day 1 behavior comes down to whether you believe I'm being a genuine civilian with a willingness to consider other suspects at EoD, or whether you think I was awkwardly distancing from Sloonei and am up to whatever other shady shenanigans. For example, we can argue until the cows come home on whether I would adopt a new distancing "style" here, but in the end, you're going to believe my actions are genuine or not, based on how I've conducted myself. Consequently, I read your post, and don't have anything else to say to your points. I can't really defend against WIFOM with anything other than WIFOM, but nonetheless I'd be happy to address any questions you still may have.

juliets, I would recommend conducting an ISO of Cookie, DDL, Elo, espers, and LoRab first, since they seem to be the players with the most potential buzz or uspicion on them. I would include myself as well in that category, but I'm not sure you have the time and energy to ISO me. Nonetheless, I'd be happy if you did.

juliets wrote:DDL, could you just answer a couple of questions about this post?

First, you mention the vote on Scotty being what spurred you to do an analysis of the posts. Did you end up with any conclusions about that vote? Do you still find it suspicious and if so why?

juliets wrote:Second, what do you mean by "the other time I caught the godfather"? Also, what progression are you referring to when you say his vote for Cookie had a "similar progression".

Though the son of a bitch managed to get me lynched first.

Long Con wrote:

G-Man wrote:I'll have to re-read Day 3 to see what I missed. Doesn't look like it will take long.

Don't be so sure. I felt like Day 3 was heavy with big posts.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Hey everyone sorry I wasn't around yesterday.
LC why am I on the bad side of your rainbow list. Was it the LD stuff?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'll conduct ISO's of my own tonight, and then I can reorder my mafia reads, which are sort of jumbled at the moment. I'm trying NOT to tunnel Cookie (or Elo, for that matter), so I need to re-read before I post a rainbow list.

LC, I also meant to say I'm a bit perplexed on some of your rainbow list reads, though I'm really glad you provided them. I have the following questions/requests for elaboration:
- Metalmarsh as top civ read? Yeah, he's up there for me. Mostly gut, that's just where I want him on my list right now.
- Why timmer/juliets placed where she is? She kind of just got stuck there when I was cutting and pasting names into a suspicion order.
- Why do you have Elo so much higher than Cookie? I thought Cookie's talk about the next vote was suspicious, and I have re-evaluated Eloh and I find her more Civ. Someone pointed out that her interactions with Sloonei were not very baddie-teammate-seeming, and I agree with that.... it outweighs the things that I found suspicious about her before.
- Does the "yellow" for Russ and DDL equate to "no read", or "slight mafia" or something else? Ennhhhh... take your pick. Mostly neutral or null, I gueess.
- How confident are you in LoRab's baddieness? You've given us some detail, like the LD stuff, but can you provide more examples? Maybe build a case on her? She's my biggest suspicion. I'll see what a reread gives me.

DDL, noted. Just let me know. I'll be sure to do the same, when I have the chance to pop in here again later.