The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:10 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:08 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:04 am @leetic why are you clearing reywas?

Revealing the entire rest of the mafia team, even as a joke, just seems like something the mafia wouldn't do. speedchuck's targeting of him looks in his favor too. Plus, there were a few towny moments of him in my ISO. Overall, it's very unlikely he's scum.

When was the entire mafia team “revealed”?

The post of his I just quoted.

Am I missing something or did some people not vote this poll?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:10 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:08 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:04 am @leetic why are you clearing reywas?

Revealing the entire rest of the mafia team, even as a joke, just seems like something the mafia wouldn't do. speedchuck's targeting of him looks in his favor too. Plus, there were a few towny moments of him in my ISO. Overall, it's very unlikely he's scum.

When was the entire mafia team “revealed”?

Freudian slip

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:12 am Am I missing something or did some people not vote this poll?

reywaS and nova didn't vote

I wouldn't be surprised if scum was on the speedchuck wagon. Sabie and Sloonei, especially the latter who suddenly jumped from the rey wagon to the speed wagon at the end of the phase, are top suspects.

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:18 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:12 am Am I missing something or did some people not vote this poll?

reywaS and nova didn't vote

Weird that they didn't vote.
Also didn't reywas name you leetic as the third mafia member in that same post?


Also I was never on the Rey wagon I voted speed in both polls

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:26 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:18 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:12 am Am I missing something or did some people not vote this poll?

reywaS and nova didn't vote

Weird that they didn't vote.
Also didn't reywas name you leetic as the third mafia member in that same post?


Also I was never on the Rey wagon I voted speed in both polls

He did. But revealing his two scummates in his three most suspicious users is just too much a WIFOM gambit if he was scum. Also, I was referring to Sloonei.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:29 pm There’s a big part of me that wants to vote speedchuck for the sake of a terrible pun I’ve been sitting on all game, but I like the balance of the vote distribution right now and I don’t know if I’ll be around for the end of day.

Yeah, I don't like the looks of this post. It reads like "I'll stay in the reg wagon in case it takes off but create a plausible reason for me to switch to the speed wagon in case I need to make myself look good"

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:29 pm There’s a big part of me that wants to vote speedchuck for the sake of a terrible pun I’ve been sitting on all game, but I like the balance of the vote distribution right now and I don’t know if I’ll be around for the end of day.

Yeah, I don't like the looks of this post. It reads like "I'll stay in the reg wagon in case it takes off but create a plausible reason for me to switch to the speed wagon in case I need to make myself look good"

Or I just had a joke to make.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:55 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:29 pm There’s a big part of me that wants to vote speedchuck for the sake of a terrible pun I’ve been sitting on all game, but I like the balance of the vote distribution right now and I don’t know if I’ll be around for the end of day.

Yeah, I don't like the looks of this post. It reads like "I'll stay in the reg wagon in case it takes off but create a plausible reason for me to switch to the speed wagon in case I need to make myself look good"

Or I just had a joke to make.

That's not the point. The point is, you joined the speed wagon at a very convenient time.

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:56 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:55 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:29 pm There’s a big part of me that wants to vote speedchuck for the sake of a terrible pun I’ve been sitting on all game, but I like the balance of the vote distribution right now and I don’t know if I’ll be around for the end of day.

Yeah, I don't like the looks of this post. It reads like "I'll stay in the reg wagon in case it takes off but create a plausible reason for me to switch to the speed wagon in case I need to make myself look good"

Or I just had a joke to make.

That's not the point. The point is, you joined the speed wagon at a very convenient time.

I disagree.

If I’m bad, I’m painting a big red target on me with that move.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:57 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:56 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:55 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:29 pm There’s a big part of me that wants to vote speedchuck for the sake of a terrible pun I’ve been sitting on all game, but I like the balance of the vote distribution right now and I don’t know if I’ll be around for the end of day.

Yeah, I don't like the looks of this post. It reads like "I'll stay in the reg wagon in case it takes off but create a plausible reason for me to switch to the speed wagon in case I need to make myself look good"

Or I just had a joke to make.

That's not the point. The point is, you joined the speed wagon at a very convenient time.

I disagree.

I mean, it was right before the phase end, and right when it was almost guaranteed speedchuck was going to be lynched, thus a low-risk time to bus.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:57 am If I’m bad, I’m painting a big red target on me with that move.

Is "too scummy to be scum" really a good defense?

It isn't since it's riddled with wifom.

I'm a sucker for it though

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:59 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:57 am If I’m bad, I’m painting a big red target on me with that move.

Is "too scummy to be scum" really a good defense?

Yes. You just used a similar argument to clear reywas

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:04 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:59 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:57 am If I’m bad, I’m painting a big red target on me with that move.

Is "too scummy to be scum" really a good defense?

Yes. You just used a similar argument to clear reywas

No, that's using an interaction with other users to clear someone. rey's joke post wasn't particularly scummy.

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:58 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:57 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:56 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:55 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:29 pm There’s a big part of me that wants to vote speedchuck for the sake of a terrible pun I’ve been sitting on all game, but I like the balance of the vote distribution right now and I don’t know if I’ll be around for the end of day.

Yeah, I don't like the looks of this post. It reads like "I'll stay in the reg wagon in case it takes off but create a plausible reason for me to switch to the speed wagon in case I need to make myself look good"

Or I just had a joke to make.

That's not the point. The point is, you joined the speed wagon at a very convenient time.

I disagree.

I mean, it was right before the phase end, and right when it was almost guaranteed speedchuck was going to be lynched, thus a low-risk time to bus.

That's actually the highest-risk time, especially in the context of this game. A mafia of 3 that lost a member on D1 and with another one starting the day with heavy heat, will usually distance itself the furthest possible. A necessary sacrifice to have a well hidden wolf inside the town core as their last hope. Or, defend heavily, trying to nip the suspicions in the bud by throwing and throwing some poo in another direction. Speedchuck's D2 play doesn't really scream option B.

There is no reason for scum sloonei to draw attention to himself by shifting his vote to speedchuck last second.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 am There is no reason for scum sloonei to draw attention to himself by shifting his vote to speedchuck last second.

WIFOM

Hmm I think I'll be voting Sloonei as soon as the sun rises.

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:15 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 am There is no reason for scum sloonei to draw attention to himself by shifting his vote to speedchuck last second.

WIFOM

My rule of thumb is that if “WIFOM” is one’s strongest argument for a suspect, then it’s not a strong enough argument.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:16 am Hmm I think I'll be voting Sloonei as soon as the sun rises.

I hope not.

I mean, we can spare me and I’m not heavily invested in this game. But we’d be better off not lynching me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:33 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:15 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 am There is no reason for scum sloonei to draw attention to himself by shifting his vote to speedchuck last second.

WIFOM

My rule of thumb is that if “WIFOM” is one’s strongest argument for a suspect, then it’s not a strong enough argument.

My rule of thumb is that if "too scummy to be scum" is one's strongest argument for a defense, then it's not a strong enough argument.

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:35 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:33 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:15 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 am There is no reason for scum sloonei to draw attention to himself by shifting his vote to speedchuck last second.

WIFOM

My rule of thumb is that if “WIFOM” is one’s strongest argument for a suspect, then it’s not a strong enough argument.

My rule of thumb is that if "too scummy to be scum" is one's strongest argument for a defense, then it's not a strong enough argument.

Would you agree that my only motivation to change my vote there would be WIFOM?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:45 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:35 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:33 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:15 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 am There is no reason for scum sloonei to draw attention to himself by shifting his vote to speedchuck last second.

WIFOM

My rule of thumb is that if “WIFOM” is one’s strongest argument for a suspect, then it’s not a strong enough argument.

My rule of thumb is that if "too scummy to be scum" is one's strongest argument for a defense, then it's not a strong enough argument.

Would you agree that my only motivation to change my vote there would be WIFOM?

Nah. Your argument could just be a way of covering yourself from a bad move.

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:51 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:45 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:35 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:33 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:15 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 am There is no reason for scum sloonei to draw attention to himself by shifting his vote to speedchuck last second.

WIFOM

My rule of thumb is that if “WIFOM” is one’s strongest argument for a suspect, then it’s not a strong enough argument.

My rule of thumb is that if "too scummy to be scum" is one's strongest argument for a defense, then it's not a strong enough argument.

Would you agree that my only motivation to change my vote there would be WIFOM?

Nah. Your argument could just be a way of covering yourself from a bad move.

So you think I panicked?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:58 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:51 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:45 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:35 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:33 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:15 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 am There is no reason for scum sloonei to draw attention to himself by shifting his vote to speedchuck last second.

WIFOM

My rule of thumb is that if “WIFOM” is one’s strongest argument for a suspect, then it’s not a strong enough argument.

My rule of thumb is that if "too scummy to be scum" is one's strongest argument for a defense, then it's not a strong enough argument.

Would you agree that my only motivation to change my vote there would be WIFOM?

Nah. Your argument could just be a way of covering yourself from a bad move.

So you think I panicked?

It's definitely a possibility.

I’ll let others comment on that.

I may actually have some time to play this game properly Day 3. I still have not made a single non-phone post in this game.

Which is to say I’m throwing out all reads and starting from scratch tomorrow.

oh damn i didnt vote in the poll. My bad I could have sworn that i did. I made my vote post and i guess i got thrown off because i had the results showing but i never actually voted in the poll. Damn i got lucky my vote was needed to keep myself safe.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:34 am I mean, we can spare me and I’m not heavily invested in this game. But we’d be better off not lynching me.

to quote someone that said it about me one time.....

YUCK

"It's whatevs guys. I'm not into this game whatsoever, but please please please don't lynch me coughI'msupesbadforrealslolcough"

Y’all are trying way to hard to force a scum read on me.

force??? right....because I'm just now finding you suspect.

reywaS wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:36 am force??? right....because I'm just now finding you suspect.

That has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:28 am Y’all are trying way to hard to force a scum read on me.

Well, it's not just that. Simple POE is not looking in your favor now. Allow me to demonstrate:

colonialbob
Elohcin
novaselinenever
nutella
reywaS

I have strong reason to townread these five, for reasons I already expressed.

AudreyTheTattleTail
Jackofhearts2005

Lunalee didn't know Audrey's age, suggesting Audrey wasn't in the scumchat (this may have been a result of her inactivity though). I suppose Jack could be scum, but it seems unlikely after speedchuck's flip.

sabie12
Sloonei

The two loose ends. One of them is likely scum.

Why me? I mean sloonei hasn't been his usual self this game so I get why people may be wary of him but what is there to base suspicion on with me?

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:02 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:58 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:51 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:45 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:35 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:33 am

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:15 am

WIFOM

My rule of thumb is that if “WIFOM” is one’s strongest argument for a suspect, then it’s not a strong enough argument.

My rule of thumb is that if "too scummy to be scum" is one's strongest argument for a defense, then it's not a strong enough argument.

Would you agree that my only motivation to change my vote there would be WIFOM?

Nah. Your argument could just be a way of covering yourself from a bad move.

So you think I panicked?

It's definitely a possibility.

I find this hard to believe TBH. I'm not clearing Sloonei but this definitely doesn't make me want to vote for him.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:09 am I still have not made a single non-phone post in this game.

Me either!

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:07 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:28 am Y’all are trying way to hard to force a scum read on me.

Well, it's not just that. Simple POE is not looking in your favor now. Allow me to demonstrate:

colonialbob
Elohcin
novaselinenever
nutella
reywaS

I have strong reason to townread these five, for reasons I already expressed.

AudreyTheTattleTail
Jackofhearts2005

Lunalee didn't know Audrey's age, suggesting Audrey wasn't in the scumchat (this may have been a result of her inactivity though). I suppose Jack could be scum, but it seems unlikely after speedchuck's flip.

sabie12
Sloonei

The two loose ends. One of them is likely scum.

I'm not comfortable removing reywas from the POE for your reasoning.

I also am not going to eliminate either Jack or Nutella, since this very easily could've been a bus (speed didn't really fight very hard).

N2: 9 vs. 1
D3: 8 vs. 1, mislynch
N3: 7 vs. 1
D4: 6 vs. 1, mislynch
N4: 5 vs. 1
D5: 4 vs. 1, mislynch
N5: 3 vs. 1
D6: 2 vs. 1, LyLo

Still looking at a POE pool of 5.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:29 am I also am not going to eliminate either Jack or Nutella, since this very easily could've been a bus (speed didn't really fight very hard).

(At least not for voting reasons)

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:22 am Why me? I mean sloonei hasn't been his usual self this game so I get why people may be wary of him but what is there to base suspicion on with me?

It's more the fact that I have reasons to believe that almost everyone else is town, but I don't see any reasons to believe that you are town, and thus you start to stand out as a suspect.

Jay said I could be buddies with Speedchuck cause I didn’t townread him for saying “hullo.” Ergo I should not be nightkilled.

Sloonei’s actions yesterday don’t really scream “bus Speedchuck” but he wasn’t in a position to bus Speed. There wasn’t a new case on him. Everything has been laid out by the night phase at the latest and Sloonei has ignored Speed all game. His late vote is awkward but not more awkward that flat bussing him at the beginning and not much less than just not voting him.

Overall, I don’t see more town motivation for that vote than scum motivation. Sloonei is arguing no scum motivation to make that vote, which is what wifom is, not people thinking he’s lying, which is a big meh defense cause it doesn’t point to Sloonei being town.

Sloonei Sabie Eloh Rey

Not a perfect poe cause I don’t think Nutella and Audrey (or myself, if you’re not me) are totally clear but it’s workable.

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:53 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:22 am Why me? I mean sloonei hasn't been his usual self this game so I get why people may be wary of him but what is there to base suspicion on with me?

It's more the fact that I have reasons to believe that almost everyone else is town, but I don't see any reasons to believe that you are town, and thus you start to stand out as a suspect.

Fair enough you haven't played with me before so you haven't seen firsthand how I usually play. I will admit I am a notoriously low poster in the beginning as I'm feeling things out and seeing what's going on. Then usually I end up guessing at least something right about the baddies then no one listens to me and I end up dying and people realize I was right and/or telling the truth all along. It's a vicious cycle but I guess I keep hoping eventually that may change and things will work out.

That being said, if we do look at peoples normal play behavior sloonei has been very different than usual. I don't know that that necessarily makes him bad but its definitely different. I'm kind of thinking though if he were his usual self and he were bad he may have tried harder to get votes off of speed and do a lynch elsewhere. He's very good at putting together cases on people. At the same time, I guess its possible he could have voted speed to not look bad but as he said idk if he would have been that sloppy.

My thoughts on Eloh are that I thought it was a little weird that she took slooneis question of regarding who else she would suspect if she didnt vote rey or speed to mean put a stand alone vote on someone else at end of day. Regardless of the fact that it was me I still would have thought it was a weird move. Also Im only slightly offended that she doesn't remember me haha but that's okay.

This game is a little strange this time since speed did vote for his teammate. That didn't necessarily work for him but now it makes us all more suspicious of everyone. It's making it a little more difficult to narrow down suspects. Could speed have also voted Rey because he was a teammate and he thought it would clear him? Maybe but leetic did make a good point that Rey guessed speed and Luna as baddies in the beginning. Why out your team and get suspicions going on them from the start?

Addendum now that I look reywas then changed his mind on all three people he said were bad and said they were good after. I mean I know his initial post was just based on random stuff and not actual suspicion but it is interesting that two of his guesses were bad in the end.