The Syndicate

Enrique wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:36 pm It didn't come out of nowhere. G-Man left hints, and not just in the flavor but especially in the set-up. It was winnable. It wasn't that bad.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:27 pm So now we have a game explicitly declared bastard that contained no bastard elements and a game marketed as simply "mafia" that contains no mafia

I suggest we create a Game of Champions next year where only players who have not won a game on the Syndicate in 2021 get to sign up.

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:39 pm While much of this setup is hardly original, it first came to me as an interesting idea about two years ago. At first I dismissed it and set it aside, but then I witnessed and played a game or two in which the civvies just brutally savaged each other while the baddies sat back and let them do most of the work. People just couldn’t see past their own biases and preconceived notions of how mafia is solved. It bugged me enough to revisit the idea.

Around that same time, 'no lynch' options were appearing in a few game polls, and that stood out to me as the way to make this whole system actually work, rather than just let civvies off each other one at a time until only one or two remain. Stringing things along for that length of time would be cruel. The Racket format also jumped out at me as a way to lessen the blow of the ruse. By making the game fast and limit posts, I saw an opportunity for players to engage at a minimal level, hopefully reducing the amount of time 'wasted' by taking part.

The point was never to put certain, mechanically-focused mafia players in their place. That’s a form of nastiness that isn't normally in my nature. We're all stubborn in our own ways anyway. Rather, the point was (and is) to see how much evidence it requires in order for a group of people to look past the assumption that there is a mafia faction and vote against their instincts. In this case, it required more time than the civvies had before crossing the point of no return.

I told my wife at the very beginning of this game that I could very well get in trouble for this one. In its most base form, this kind of setup is little more than a dirty trick for the host's amusement- a "troll game" as JaggedyJimmyJay referred to the possibility on more than one occasion. I hope you can believe me when I say that this was not intended to be, nor ever was a "troll game" for me. I included numerous hints in the flavor posts that pointed toward the truth of the matter. I wanted you guys to see it, factor the flavor in with the ever-growing list of potent civvie roles, and push past the normal bounds of game thought.

Despite what some of you have said, you were never playing against me. I am the host- I cannot win anything as the host. I was always on your side. I wanted this game/experiment/whateveritevenis to be a success. The first two days were amusing to watch, for sure, as you all got situated and subsequently bounced around, but I was always cheering for you all to figure it out. Days 3 and 4 I was like the goblins at the beginning of Labyrinth- leaning in, wondering if it was all going to click.

By Day 5, things turned, and it was much more uncomfortable to watch play out. Things got testy, and the mood grew bleaker and harsher than I had hoped for. For a game designed for low content, it was a real mental struggle to watch long stretches go by with no activity. I could tell that I had created a game that ceased to be fun or even interesting to some of you. I won't lie, it stung a little, because I pride myself on creating games that are wild and confusing, but also fun. It wasn't the first game where I ceased to have fun hosting it, and I'm sure it won't be the last.


To be continued...

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:42 pm

Enrique wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:36 pm It didn't come out of nowhere. G-Man left hints, and not just in the flavor but especially in the set-up. It was winnable. It wasn't that bad.

I don't read flavor.

Flavor being relevant to in-game mechanics is also bastard.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:42 pm

Enrique wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:36 pm It didn't come out of nowhere. G-Man left hints, and not just in the flavor but especially in the set-up. It was winnable. It wasn't that bad.

I don't read flavor.

Flavor being relevant to in-game mechanics is also bastard.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:44 pm Wow!!! I can't think of a better game to get evicted Night 1.

WTF G-Man! Also, kudos to you for trolling every single one of your players.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:32 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:28 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:23 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:15 pm "What if everyone is town" is a funny idea but annoying and a waste of time jn practice

The worst thing about this is that I'll have to hear "everyone is so dang townie! what if everyone is town and there's no mafia and the host is jerking our chain?" which I hear in every closed setup role madness game I play and shoot down every time because it's silly.

Except now it actually happened so people will take it seriously lol

Twice at the same time, even!

Well, GOC didn't have a mafia in the traditional sense but there was a hostile 3P making nightkills that town had to try and stop so it was at least a proper game. This is just weird.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:48 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:32 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:28 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:23 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:15 pm "What if everyone is town" is a funny idea but annoying and a waste of time jn practice

The worst thing about this is that I'll have to hear "everyone is so dang townie! what if everyone is town and there's no mafia and the host is jerking our chain?" which I hear in every closed setup role madness game I play and shoot down every time because it's silly.

Except now it actually happened so people will take it seriously lol

Twice at the same time, even!

Well, GOC didn't have a mafia in the traditional sense but there was a hostile 3P making nightkills that town had to try and stop so it was at least a proper game. This is just weird.

GOC didn't have a mafia in the traditional sense?

Scirrus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:47 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:44 pm Wow!!! I can't think of a better game to get evicted Night 1.

WTF G-Man! Also, kudos to you for trolling every single one of your players.

Now I regret killing you instead of leaving you alive to suffer

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:33 pm I'm glad tutuu isn't playing in this game or she'd have a fucking novel prepared about this.

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:52 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:33 pm I'm glad tutuu isn't playing in this game or she'd have a fucking novel prepared about this.

Whaa

When i criticize stuff i do it on the spot (if i was playing i would have done it itt), i never criticize stuff post game or in graveyard chats

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:55 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:52 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:33 pm I'm glad tutuu isn't playing in this game or she'd have a fucking novel prepared about this.

Whaa

When i criticize stuff i do it on the spot (if i was playing i would have done it itt), i never criticize stuff post game or in graveyard chats

I think she meant you would have prepared it during the game and posted it post-game.

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:56 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:55 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:52 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:33 pm I'm glad tutuu isn't playing in this game or she'd have a fucking novel prepared about this.

Whaa

When i criticize stuff i do it on the spot (if i was playing i would have done it itt), i never criticize stuff post game or in graveyard chats

I think she meant you would have prepared it during the game and posted it post-game.

I wouldnt! :P

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:57 pm Oh right

Well hopefully it wasnt too negative!

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:18 pm I didn't feel bad about @Long Con because I know that son of a bitch is at least as depraved and psychotic when it comes to making games as I am!

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:18 pm I think that lack of participation held this game back from making the truth more apparent. Grogu never used his bodyguard role. Posion failed to use her tracking power nights 2, 4, and 5. I put a watcher, a tracker, a bodyguard, a doctor, a blocker, and a copycat all in the same game. I saw plenty of opportunities for powers to intersect and start to confirm more and more players as civvie. Due to only about half of the powers being used on any given night, that intersection never really flourished.

As far as criticism goes, I'm going to bite my tongue on a few comments that I thought went too far. I pulled this stunt, and it's well outside the norm even for me. I think criticism is warranted. If the admins feel that this sort of thing crosses any red lines and some form of punishment is necessary to make an example of it/me in order to discourage this kind of thing from being done again/more often, then I won't object.

In my mind, this was every bit as mentally and emotionally exhausting for me as it was for many of you. It was a rollercoaster ride of ups and downs. When a few of you mentioned the idea, I was pumping my fist like a father who watches his kid score their first goal/touchdown/whatever. When you turned away from the answers, I had to fight the urge to make the flavor blatantly obvious. I wanted you to get there yourself, but boy was I tempted to give you a few extra nudges. When words came out trashing the notion of what the game really was, I internalized it and it sucked quite a bit.

Every game, I care about every single one of my players. I have a pretty extensive history with some of the folks who played this game, so the talk of disappointment and wasted time hits me hard, justified as it may be.

I knew this would be a tough process for @JaggedJimmyJay. His methodical approach to the game cuts out most flights of fancy and gets down to brass tacks. I'm sorry that brass tacks were in short supply this game.

Seeing the supposedly-retired @Epignosis join in gave me pause. I know how busy his life is, and I was very mindful each day of how much effort he was sinking into a smoke-and-mirror show.

I think most of all, I felt the worst for @fingersplints because this was her first game in several years. I hope that she views it more as a scrimmage to help her shake off any rust than me being a troll.

@Enrique- kudos to you to seeing the light and embracing it. You didn't waver on it once it made sense to you. I built too much of an uphill battle for you it seems.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:59 pm I think the psychology experiment here is more effective or less design biased if it isn’t run on a Mafia website with the name Mafia.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:34 pm You're a good guy G.

My advice to you is never trick your players. When you host, you should always be the reliable anchor. This was a trick.

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:54 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:34 pm You're a good guy G.

My advice to you is never trick your players. When you host, you should always be the reliable anchor. This was a trick.

I own that it was a trick and that this sort of thing should be considered out of bounds by a host. Curiosity is what drove me to see it through, not malice. I hate to lose face as a host for it, but it is indefensible. If my reputation is tarnished, then I only have myself to blame for that.

We'll see if this ruse hurts my ability to fill up future games. I will be sure to state in my gameplay section, though, that all of my future games include an informed minority clashing with an uninformed majority. That way, no one ever has to worry or speculate about the possibility of a repeat.

And as I said before- if the admins believe that they need to make a punitive example out of me, I won't object. Twelve people can't get back the time they invested into this game, and that's on me. Recourse may well be in order.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:06 am

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:54 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:34 pm You're a good guy G.

My advice to you is never trick your players. When you host, you should always be the reliable anchor. This was a trick.

I own that it was a trick and that this sort of thing should be considered out of bounds by a host. Curiosity is what drove me to see it through, not malice. I hate to lose face as a host for it, but it is indefensible. If my reputation is tarnished, then I only have myself to blame for that.

We'll see if this ruse hurts my ability to fill up future games. I will be sure to state in my gameplay section, though, that all of my future games include an informed minority clashing with an uninformed majority. That way, no one ever has to worry or speculate about the possibility of a repeat.

And as I said before- if the admins believe that they need to make a punitive example out of me, I won't object. Twelve people can't get back the time they invested into this game, and that's on me. Recourse may well be in order.

Game on the Internet brother.

Nobody is going to punish you.

You are someone I admire and always will be.

This changes nothing.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:07 am On some level you must admire the sheer ballsiness of it.

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:11 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:07 am On some level you must admire the sheer ballsiness of it.

You said something similar about me having a role in Chicka Chicka 1, 2, 3 that gradually insanified most of the players.

I think you need to pick your battles better.

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:54 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:34 pm You're a good guy G.

My advice to you is never trick your players. When you host, you should always be the reliable anchor. This was a trick.

I own that it was a trick and that this sort of thing should be considered out of bounds by a host. Curiosity is what drove me to see it through, not malice. I hate to lose face as a host for it, but it is indefensible. If my reputation is tarnished, then I only have myself to blame for that.

We'll see if this ruse hurts my ability to fill up future games. I will be sure to state in my gameplay section, though, that all of my future games include an informed minority clashing with an uninformed majority. That way, no one ever has to worry or speculate about the possibility of a repeat.

And as I said before- if the admins believe that they need to make a punitive example out of me, I won't object. Twelve people can't get back the time they invested into this game, and that's on me. Recourse may well be in order.

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:09 pm

There Goes the Neighborhood

The Piano Estates HOA board had finally backed themselves into a corner. They filed yet another lawsuit against a homeowner for ignoring the mandate to put their house for sale. Nobody thought the eviction clause had any real teeth. Suing was the only way to prove that it did.

Everyone currently engaged in legal action with the HOA had waited to be sued. This fact was not lost on the HOA's attorney on retainer. He was sweating bullets after reviewing any and all possible related cases. The outlook was grim, yet the HOA board persisted. They felt bound to uphold what they believed to be the only course of action available to them. Inaction was invalid in their minds.

At the beckoning of Flamini, there was yet again an eviction vote. With so few homeowners remaining with voting rights, the votes were getting narrower and narrower. Robert Vitale was the latest victim to the Lenker brothers' cockamamie eviction clause.

A few days later, each of the board members were surprised to be served on their front porches with papers. At long last, they were the ones being sued.

Each of them read the documents in bewilderment. With the latest eviction vote, Piano Estates officially had more homeowners under mandatory eviction status than there were members in good standing. The board had essentially rendered themselves invalid, as quorum could no longer be reached per the covenants.

Not only that, but each homeowner under mandatory eviction orders had banded together to form a class action lawsuit against the HOA as an entity engaging in illegal practices and erroneous lawsuits against members, as well as against the board members as individuals for failing to perform their duty to look out for and act in the best interest of the HOA and its members by ignoring a legally dubious clause in the covenants that likely held no legal standing whatsoever.

The circular firing squad of lawsuits ruined a few people financially, but it also ruined the spirit of Piano Estates. The Lenker brothers really had believed that their fellow developer was telling the truth when he told them about the rumors of organized crime members moving into their neighborhood. Too bad the Lenkers, as developers themselves, were blind to the fact that developers are almost universally full of shit and not to be trusted.

The HOA board and members lost sight of this simple truth as well, and it cost many of them dearly. Property values declined, relationships soured, and Piano Estates earned a reputation for being a difficult place to live.

When the bad guys exist only in your head, everybody loses.

----------------------

Enrique has been evicted. He was:

ROBERT VITALE, a civvie. You are such a kind neighbor that an elderly homeowner in Piano Estates has asked you to be their proxy vote any time the need arises. As such, your vote is worth two each day.

The game has ended.


Nobody has won.



The entire game was built around one premise: If the 'No Eviction' option wins the poll in any phase before the number of evicted players outnumbers the number of players remaining in the game, everyone wins.

@Alison
@chardonnay
@Enrique
@Epignosis
@fingersplints
@Grogu
@JaggedJimmyJay
@KZA
@Long Con
@Marmot
@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
@Poison
@Scirrus