The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:Teach me O Tired Jimmy Jay

Epignosis wrote:I'll make it plain then, and I'm sorry to resort to this kind of thing but, you've caught no mafia. None.

I got results. You didn't. Golden didn't. Neener Neener.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Teach me O Tired Jimmy Jay

Lesson #1: stop shitting on Mafia styles you've never seen before

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Teach me O Tired Jimmy Jay

Lesson #1: stop shitting on Mafia styles you've never seen before

Lesson #1: Stop defending mafia on Day 1.

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I'll make it plain then, and I'm sorry to resort to this kind of thing but, you've caught no mafia. None.

I got results. You didn't. Golden didn't. Neener Neener.

Lol. Was on Scotty before you. Neener Neener.

Quin wrote:Quin objected to the case on Quin

Epignosis wrote:You guys do your thing with your POE and whatever else you have that works for you. I'll vote. Just tell me where to vote.

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:You guys do your thing with your POE and whatever else you have that works for you. I'll vote. Just tell me where to vote.

Vote where you want to vote.

Epignosis wrote:You guys do your thing with your POE and whatever else you have that works for you. I'll vote. Just tell me where to vote.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:You guys do your thing with your POE and whatever else you have that works for you. I'll vote. Just tell me where to vote.

You're willing to vote for who I ask you to vote for?

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:You guys do your thing with your POE and whatever else you have that works for you. I'll vote. Just tell me where to vote.

Vote where you want to vote.

Thanks Dad. You are amazing with sarcasm.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:You guys do your thing with your POE and whatever else you have that works for you. I'll vote. Just tell me where to vote.

You're willing to vote for who I ask you to vote for?

No, you ninny.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:You guys do your thing with your POE and whatever else you have that works for you. I'll vote. Just tell me where to vote.

You're willing to vote for who I ask you to vote for?

No, you ninny.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Really, process of elimination isn't some revolutionary new thing. It's just reads. It's the same shit everybody does, expressed in a different way. How controversial.

Epignosis wrote:Well I think it's clear Golden, JaggedJimmyJay and Epignosis aren't teammate.

Goodnight everybody!

Golden wrote:AND you just ended a sentence with a comma.

Golden wrote:I'll do reads on everyone not called golden, epi or Jay... then lets have a chat about what you think about them.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm not good at talking with drunk people. Are you... well?

Epignosis wrote:Let's take the time to crap on the other people. Who is bad?

Quin wrote:3J I'll respond to that after my lynch analysis.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:3J I'll respond to that after my lynch analysis.

I'm down for this action if you have the time, Quin.

Quin wrote:Strong town
Golden

Mild town
Sloonei
Epignosis

Neutral
leetic
reywaS
DrWilgy

Mild bad
insertnamehere
metalmarsh89
ricochet
JaggedJimmyJay

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:He's already got his defence here ready, but reading of any kind based on emoticon usage is...a horrible case. My emoticon usage has shit all to do with my alignment and everything to do with my emotions at the time. Couple that with this discussion is ongoing with marmot who I don't feel fantastic about sets off alarm bells.

I agree that a case based around emoticons is not a strong one. I don't believe that's the relevant detail though -- I'm not assessing the strength of Marmot's post, I'm assessing the honesty of Marmot's post. I made a number of dubious gut reads in that early stage because that's how I play Mafia. This was pretty much the same as me giving you a positive nod for using caps lock. Those were real reads. They weren't reads I'd invest myself immensely in, but they were real. Reads are stupid early in a game, and I embrace that. I state my stupid reads.

I looked further at the context and I agree he sounds honest.

Quin wrote:Golden used the 'just because it's easy doesn't make it bad' defence when I accused him of taking the easy route when coming up with potential teammates. I know you read it, but you didn't seem interested in that. Also, on what planet do townies lie more easily?

Is there a reason I should have been interested in that? I agree with Golden's logic. Whether townies lie more than baddies can be debated; I think it depends upon how one defines "lie" in that context. It is true that baddies provide a number of false reads, all of which can be called "lies". They're implicit in the nature of the game though. I was referring to lies which doesn't necessarily have to exist for Mafia to work -- on that front I certainly lie more as a townie than as a baddie. I fake night actions, I fake confident reads, I fling the nastiest sort of poop without provocation -- these are all reactionary tactics that I have tried in my town skin. I don't think I'm alone in that style.

I apologise, I didn't give you full context here. I was suggesting that while you didn't scrutinise Golden for this post, you did scrutinise someone else for pretty much the same thing. I cannot find said post after going through your post history AGAIN, so either I'm forgetting what it said, or I was mistaking you for someone else.

Quin wrote:You don't get immunity from having your game criticised just because the person civ-read you once. Wasn't it you who said this:

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:My objective is to generate a game thread which promotes the highest-possible chance of facilitating strong reads. I change my mind more than anyone I know for this reason -- the only read that matters is the one that accompanies a final vote. Everything else is a part of the process of arriving at that final vote.

It seems contradictory that you'd act so aggressively to someone who's just trying to do the same thing you do.

I don't think INH was ever doing that. His griping about my play while calling me his strongest town read could serve him no real purpose. From the perspective of a town INH, that should be viewed as a pointless effort, and I said as much. I was probably acting as much on annoyance as relevant Mafia pursuit at that point because INH wouldn't shut the hell up about it. I have been doing things my way for a long time, and when someone complains about it without offering any actual alternative it's really annoying.

It wasn't 'while' he was calling you his strongest at all. Things change. It's perfectly clear that by the time this conversation comes around he's starting to trust you less. I get that having your game criticised without being given an alternative is annoying, but I don't see how that's relevant here, because I'm not interpreting it as simple criticism.

Quin wrote:This is a meta read. Curious he looked for a game in which he was bad and didn't think to back it up with a game where he was civ. For the record, here's a civ INH in Triskaedekaphobia also not taking Day 1 accusations seriously. Or are you segmenting the two because the former seems 'funnier'?

That was the point. I had already said earlier in the game that this was behavior associated with civilian INH. I went looking for a contrary example to determine if that prior read was inspired by an illogical mindset -- and I determined it was. So I ceased to give him credit for it.

Where did you do this? I found the post were you drew associations between this game and Triskaidekaphobia, but that conversation was not about whether he took Day 1 suspicions seriously. It was about his opposition to your methods.

Quin wrote:He's on both sides of the fence on a Scotty lynch.

I was never enthusiastic about the Scotty lynch. Until the very end of Day 1, I was never enthusiastic about stopping it either. It just didn't inspire me. Oh well.

Okay.

Quin wrote:I didn't like this interaction then and I don't now. 3J has always been for alternatives, and even if he suggests that he doesn't support mine because he doesn't agree with it, I think it's suspicious that he'd try and discredit my vote by saying it had no utility, even with the case I had behind it.

Sloonei was never going to be lynched on Day 1, and it doesn't take a superpower of projection to say that. I thought you opted to camp your vote in a place where it had close to no chance of mattering, and I said so. That this happened while other suspects were garnering tally attention was the problem for me. I've seen baddies do that shit and I didn't like it when you did it.

I vote outside the main wagons all the time. If I'm extremely confident that someone is bad, I'm gonna vote for them. I didn't do it to skirt the sidelines, I fully intended to fight for that lynch, and I did.

Quin wrote:I'd go so far as to say Sloonei was the reason Scotty was lynched. You haven't made a single hint towards your thinking that he could have been bussed by Sloonei, so I see how you could think that Sloonei was suspicious here, whether he actually voted Scotty or not.

Incorrect.

Prove me wrong.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Well I'm going to need to reprocess everything in light of that.

Mmhm. I feel much better about sloonei now.

I might actually feel worse.

I don't know, I'm going to try to block it all out until I have time to reassess objectively.

This is good, I also have doubts about you. You were opposed to the Scotty wagon from the moment it started. You pounced on INH with me as soon as the alternative arose. Your other big suspect has been leetic, who has three posts which are largely unsubstantial.

If my goal is to save my partner, I never need your INH CFD. I stay on leetic and I push that case.

I wasn't "opposed to the Scotty wagon from the moment it started". At one point I even said I was content with it. I didn't take a harder stance against it until the EOD sequence during which you did the same thing. And props to Scotty, I'm a boob. I shouldn't have done that. But shit happens.

The reason my immediate reaction to the new reveal features new doubt about you is the pre-flip town projection Beck was referring to. I didn't care about it at when I really believed Scotty was town, but it has new meaning when he appears town but actually isn't. The same CFD attempt I took part in was your own creation. With a little time to think about it though I am not inclined to attack you for this. The CFD was always relatively unlikely to come to fruition, and I don't know that you'd be so sloppy as to peel away from your team mate at the last minute for a hail mary CFD.

You may or may not agree with my logic, but I provided it.

I do not know what this is doing here.

Quin wrote:Why does marmot deserve civ cred here? I don't really get your leetic thing here but I have nothing bad to say about it.

Everything from about this point here that stands out to me is that 3J is crumbing his intention to vote for me, but he's standing back and saying 'hey, I get it! I just want to gather more information!'

I've already talked about that Marmot vote repeatedly. Just go find it.

You've put it down as being a 'hammer vote'. My question stands. He shouldn't have been given civ cred so loosely for jumping on the inevitable. Scotty's lynch was dead set.

I was never "crumbing my intention to vote for you". I didn't place my vote because I didn't know what I wanted to do with it. The only thing from you that I really wanted to hear was your read on Golden, and I didn't take a stance until you provided that read. If you had been more antagonistic against Golden I probably wouldn't have voted for you. There's no way for you to know I'm telling the truth here, but that's what it is.

I don't believe you wanted a civ Quin 1.0 to scum read Golden. Your argument to suggest that civ reading him was a scum-tell was riddled with confirmation bias. Your argument is that 'if I don't think a guy is bad because he's confident that I am, I must be bad'

~~~ Insert spoiler-screwed recreation of my own Quin/Scotty interaction analysis. I don't want to dig through this HTML mess to find points, so if you made any here that you want to hear about just say so.~~~

The ones that got butchered were just three of a larger number. Your EoD pretty much consisted of openings for your to take at a moments notice.

Quin wrote:And then there's this little number.

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:At this point Quin, I'm not certain how far defending yourself can realistically take you. Whether you end up lynched or not, the best thing for the town faction would be for you to focus purely on hunting for baddies and leaving us with a legacy. If it's good enough shit, the votes might evaporate anyway. I say this mostly because it's what I'd most like to see; I've already seen the defenses and I can conjure them before they are shown to me. Give me the suspects.

The choice is yours obviously.

Clearly the scumhunting I have been doing isn't good enough for him. He's going on about legacies, which also raises alarms. Just because I'm dead doesn't mean my scumhunting is right. I don't trust this, I think this is a massive discredit job and a way to try and shut me up.

I did the exact opposite of "try to shut you up". I did the exact opposite of "discredit" you. I wanted you to use your time wisely. You clearly disagreed about how time is used wisely. I gave you the advice that I later took myself: I didn't waste my time defending myself against your mega-ISO and instead focused on what was important to the town faction. You don't have to agree with the mindset, but it's one I've promoted in nearly every town game I've played since about 2013.

Defending myself was a wise decision, and best for the town. I maintain that. I would much prefer to give you the tools to analyse how people reacted to my defence, who accepted it, who didn't, and give you a meaty lynch poll and thread than give you the reads I could have come up with which may or may not have been correct. Telling me that defending myself isn't realistic is most definitely an attempt to shut me up.

Quin wrote:And then this. It just furthers my opinion that he's preparing for me to get all my posts out so that he can fake a now-informed vote. He intended to vote for me long ago, he just wants to look good doing it.

The Golden read. What I was looking for was some iteration of "I suspect Golden". I didn't get it, I didn't buy it, I thought you were bad. I was wrong. Shit happens.

See above.

If I get lynched, Quin 1.0 will know the feeling.

Ricochet wrote:

Quin wrote:Strong town
Golden

Mild town
Sloonei
Epignosis

Neutral
leetic
reywaS
DrWilgy

Mild bad
insertnamehere
metalmarsh89
ricochet
JaggedJimmyJay

Quin wrote:
Why did you elect to ignore your personal suspicion of 3J and vote for me just because I was on a PoE (yet again, which is prone to baddie manipulation)?

Ricochet wrote:

Quin wrote:
Why did you elect to ignore your personal suspicion of 3J and vote for me just because I was on a PoE (yet again, which is prone to baddie manipulation)?

Golden wrote:I'm aggrevating, man! You don't have to like it, but it's intentional. Ready to take another swig? I declared pretty openly that I didn't care about lynching the civs I lynched in the champs games either, and I still stand by it, because lynching the PoE is the way to the town winning games like this. You were in there, scotty put you in there. I don't like that you, Quin the person, had to be lynched when you are town. In games where it's 'survive to win', I wouldn't be as cavalier, but this isn't. This game is 'be on the winning side to win'. That means, forget about your own death when you are town, accept that sometimes you need to go. That's where my mindset is at for games like hesit games.

I don't much like it myself, frankly. It's why I actually PREFER survive to win.

Quin, you are handling my aggrevation just fine. You did the whole time. I'm pretty sure Quin 2.0 is town.

INH is handling it.. less fine.

Rico is handling it terribly. He's basically been throwing a tantrum for days and done literally nothing but pout about my approach to the game. If this is what bad rico looks like, I won't be impressed.

insertnamehere wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Golden is bad with inh, otherwise rico is bad.

lol that'd be one awkward chatroom

Quin wrote:Strong town
Golden

Mild town
Sloonei
Epignosis

Neutral
leetic
reywaS
DrWilgy

Mild bad
insertnamehere
metalmarsh89
ricochet
JaggedJimmyJay

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think we should lynch Wilgy or reywaS next. I know they're both total lurkers and many people are going to balk at the notion, but I don't care. I think they're the best choices.

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:I'll knock epi down a peg to neutral for doing exactly what inh did.

The narrative is 'golden was wrong last time, so he shouldn't be listened to this time'.

It's a bullshit narrative, and epi and inh both know that full well.

Your ways are best.

I'm happy to be a neutral peg or whatever it is I am.



I'm with INH in this: Neither of us suspect you. We just think your methods are shit.

Golden wrote:Essentially, it turns out people are an awful lot better at spotting the things that probably aren't bad, than they are at spotting things that probably are.

Golden wrote:I think it's probably fair to say that at this point my PoE is like Jay's and they probably are the only two in it. So, I am leaning towards lynching one of the pair tomorrow right now.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I agree that all of the time we have should be spent scrutinizing everyone. I am certain that will happen. I am saying who I want to lynch, not who I want to discuss at length. There's nothing to say about Wilgy or reywaS.

Epignosis wrote:I'm having one more beer and going to bed. I don't understand this "Championesque" nonsense or how it works. I think it's pretentious and isn't going to prove successful here.