The Syndicate

Fifi Macafee sat at his desk, barking an inspirational rant into the radio for all officers to hear.

"They say people don't believe in heroes anymore. Well damn them! You boys are going to give the people back their heroes! We're going to grab these desert-riding sons of bitches by the throat and grind them into the dirt. This could be civilization's last stand, so damn the doubters and damn the paperwork! Give 'em back their heroes boys! Make me proud."

No answer. Another night of incompetence? Why not.

Fifi leaned back in his chair. Had he crossed a line? He wasn't sure. All he knew is that he would protect this town no matter what it took.



Toecutter and his gang were growing bold. Since no one could prove that they killed Epignosis the night before, and as long as they behaved themselves, the police and MFP were powerless to keep them off the street. As the bars and clubs shut down for the night, the gang leader stepped out onto the street and breathed in the cool night air.

"Heavenly, the sky tonight," he said. "Don't you think so, Johnny?"

"I'd like to find a piece of heaven and stay the night if you know what I mean," the imbecile laughed.

"Now now, Johnny," Toecutter admonished. "We must carry ourselves with dignity and respect if we are to be accepted here." At that very moment, he collided with a woman coming out of a club.

"Pardon me, ma'am," he said with a bow.

"Watch where you're going, you clowns," she shot back.

"I assure you," Toecutter said as he took the woman's hand, "this was an unfortunate accident and by no means reflective of my character."

"Let go of me, you creep!" the woman shouted. She slapped him across the cheek, drawing blood with one of her rings. Toecutter stood stunned on the sidewalk and the woman took off in a huff.

"So much for respect," Johnny howled.

Toecutter sneered at the woman. "Boys, I think we need to teach that lady a lesson."

"And what lesson is that?" Cundalini asked.

Toecutter wiped his cheek and gazed at the blood dotting his fingertips. "That the degree of kindness and hospitality you give to others comes back around to you."

"Reap what you sow," Bubba said with stolid approval.

Before S~V~S could react, the gang was upon her. She kicked and screamed as best she could but no one was coming to her aid tonight. Fear kept people away from opportunities to do good and stand up to the madness. Thus, the madness consumed her.

They bound her arms to one of the motorcycles and dragged her through the streets. S~V~S momentarily forgot about the pain of her legs being stripped raw by the asphalt when one of her shoulders dislocated. That pain was forgotten about only when her tibiae shattered when she slammed into a lamppost when the motorcycle took a wide turn.

At some point, S~V~S passed out. When the bikers noticed her body had gone limp and silent, they stopped. One by one, they took turns running over her body until they were satisfied with her punishment.

"Let this be a lesson to all of them," Toecutter said. "If respect is not shown, mercy will not be extended."

Elohcin wrote:

Quin wrote:Your vote isn't so suspicious to me anymore now that I know the full context, but I'm still iffy about the way you went around developing your suspicion of 3J. Are you still suspicious of him? Why/why not?


I'm continuing my catchup. I don't know how you guys do this all the time

I initially accused JJJ of seeming like he was trying too hard with his roleplaying. But that was to see his reaction. I was trying to feel him out as I was not sure about him. But...I later said that even though his role playing confuses me and that I don't like it, I still think he is civ. So...not sure what you are talking about when you bring up the word suspicion.

I questioned this highlighted but at first, so I went back to have a look at Eloh's posts again with the idea that she was just trying to read Jay.

Elohcin wrote:I know nothing of this show, so JJJ is confusing me a bit. I may vote him. It seems a little 'trying too hard' to come in here role play like that right off the bat. Like he is trying to win us over. What do y'all think? And this is not WIFOM talking...whatever that is. I never understood that term completely. but you all seem to use it for when you go after someone who has gone after you? I don't know.

I'll hold off on voting for now.

This was her initial comment on Neil Hartley. I've been reading it all along as an earnest attempt to cast shade at Jay, and I can still see that being the case, but I also see nothing in this post excludes the possibility of this being an effort to provoke him. A problem that I would have with this notion, however, is that a move like this looks kind of out of place in the rest of Eloh's post history. This would be her only active move in the game that I can notice. Everything else she has done has been passive (self-defense, responding to others, etc.).

These were her next couple of posts:

Elohcin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I honestly don't know what to say in defence. There is nothing to defend against. Your role playing or lack thereof confuses me.

I'll take a break to state it clearly:

There is nothing inherently suspicious about roleplay. Sometimes people just want to goof around and have a little fun in Mafia games. There are always people who cast suspicion for it though, and some of those are smearers. Your suspicion of me looked fake, like you had to squeeze your brain really hard to generate something bad to say about the roleplay.

I don't ever squeeze my brain very hard this early in a game. I honestly thought it was weird behavior on your part.

There is nothing present in these two posts that gives me a sense she is actively working towards a read of him. These posts are pure self-defense.

She makes a few more references to Jay on Day 1, but nothing really accusatory. On Day 2 she posts this:

Elohcin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:However, I don't agree with JJJ and his vote for me. Epi said it himself that he had no reason for voting/suspecting me.

One of the reasons you've gotten the attention of Neil Hartley for the wrong reasons is that you keep attributing my suspicion of you to Epignosis. Don't get me wrong, Epi is a top gentleman. He knows his stuff. You're talking to Neil though. You know, the main event? The man under the spotlight with the microphone who's been crooning the evening away so divinely? You're talking to me, not Epignosis.

It's weird. I don't know what it is. But your role-playing makes me cringe. (I'm not trying to be mean, just honest.) I think there are multiple reasons for this. First, you have always been such a logical, reasonable player. And this act seems to be the opposite to that. The second reason is difficult for me to explain. I am a very matter-of-fact person. Black and white. The role playing unnerves me for some reason and I think its b/c it seems like you are hiding behind it. Like you don;t have to be real or talk about real issues of the game b/c you are roleplaying. Maybe I am the one being weird, or who IS weird. Maybe I am bringing my own personality issues into this and shouldn't be. FWIW, I think you are civ.

The last sentence finally suggests there has been some sort of a process going on for Elohcin, or that she's simply given up on her early suspicion, or that it was all fake from the beginning and now she's just abandoned it altogether. I guess I am not totally convinced that Elohcin's original comment here was either true or false.

@ Elohcin, who are your current suspects and why?

Something to keep in mind in this game will be G-Man's host posts. In his last game, Red vs. Blue, be made it clear that his story posts were not just there for flavor, but that they included real hints about the game and we were able to peace together some key game mechanics by analyzing them. That is something we should be keeping an eye out for in this game as well. I've not caught anything yet but if anyone else comes up with anything, shout it out.

Sloonei wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Quin wrote:Your vote isn't so suspicious to me anymore now that I know the full context, but I'm still iffy about the way you went around developing your suspicion of 3J. Are you still suspicious of him? Why/why not?


I'm continuing my catchup. I don't know how you guys do this all the time

I initially accused JJJ of seeming like he was trying too hard with his roleplaying. But that was to see his reaction. I was trying to feel him out as I was not sure about him. But...I later said that even though his role playing confuses me and that I don't like it, I still think he is civ. So...not sure what you are talking about when you bring up the word suspicion.

I questioned this highlighted but at first, so I went back to have a look at Eloh's posts again with the idea that she was just trying to read Jay.

Elohcin wrote:I know nothing of this show, so JJJ is confusing me a bit. I may vote him. It seems a little 'trying too hard' to come in here role play like that right off the bat. Like he is trying to win us over. What do y'all think? And this is not WIFOM talking...whatever that is. I never understood that term completely. but you all seem to use it for when you go after someone who has gone after you? I don't know.

I'll hold off on voting for now.

This was her initial comment on Neil Hartley. I've been reading it all along as an earnest attempt to cast shade at Jay, and I can still see that being the case, but I also see nothing in this post excludes the possibility of this being an effort to provoke him. A problem that I would have with this notion, however, is that a move like this looks kind of out of place in the rest of Eloh's post history. This would be her only active move in the game that I can notice. Everything else she has done has been passive (self-defense, responding to others, etc.).

These were her next couple of posts:

Elohcin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I honestly don't know what to say in defence. There is nothing to defend against. Your role playing or lack thereof confuses me.

I'll take a break to state it clearly:

There is nothing inherently suspicious about roleplay. Sometimes people just want to goof around and have a little fun in Mafia games. There are always people who cast suspicion for it though, and some of those are smearers. Your suspicion of me looked fake, like you had to squeeze your brain really hard to generate something bad to say about the roleplay.

I don't ever squeeze my brain very hard this early in a game. I honestly thought it was weird behavior on your part.

There is nothing present in these two posts that gives me a sense she is actively working towards a read of him. These posts are pure self-defense.

She makes a few more references to Jay on Day 1, but nothing really accusatory. On Day 2 she posts this:

Elohcin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:However, I don't agree with JJJ and his vote for me. Epi said it himself that he had no reason for voting/suspecting me.

One of the reasons you've gotten the attention of Neil Hartley for the wrong reasons is that you keep attributing my suspicion of you to Epignosis. Don't get me wrong, Epi is a top gentleman. He knows his stuff. You're talking to Neil though. You know, the main event? The man under the spotlight with the microphone who's been crooning the evening away so divinely? You're talking to me, not Epignosis.

It's weird. I don't know what it is. But your role-playing makes me cringe. (I'm not trying to be mean, just honest.) I think there are multiple reasons for this. First, you have always been such a logical, reasonable player. And this act seems to be the opposite to that. The second reason is difficult for me to explain. I am a very matter-of-fact person. Black and white. The role playing unnerves me for some reason and I think its b/c it seems like you are hiding behind it. Like you don;t have to be real or talk about real issues of the game b/c you are roleplaying. Maybe I am the one being weird, or who IS weird. Maybe I am bringing my own personality issues into this and shouldn't be. FWIW, I think you are civ.

The last sentence finally suggests there has been some sort of a process going on for Elohcin, or that she's simply given up on her early suspicion, or that it was all fake from the beginning and now she's just abandoned it altogether. I guess I am not totally convinced that Elohcin's original comment here was either true or false.

@ Elohcin, who are your current suspects and why?

My only gripe is that there's no explicit indication that getting a read of 3J is her goal. Her dialogue with Jay after that initial post is lackluster. The third set of posts you quoted, especially, it's all just self-defense. I think that her final 'I think you're civ' statement is backpedaling, though I'm not sure how to read that.


@Everyone: I've stopped my catch-up at page 20, so if there's anything in the past 10 pages you want my opinion on I'll have a look at it, but I think I can best gather my thoughts now that I'm able to actually to insert myself.

Day 6 - The Discharge

I'm afraid that keeping in contact with this game has been more challenging than I'd imagined it would Still, I think things will settle down now for a while so let me try to find my feet back here again.

On an unrelated note: G, do your write-ups have to be so... graphic? Frankly, I found that last one a trifle disturbing...

Quin wrote: My only gripe is that there's no explicit indication that getting a read of 3J is her goal. Her dialogue with Jay after that initial post is lackluster. The third set of posts you quoted, especially, it's all just self-defense. I think that her final 'I think you're civ' statement is backpedaling, though I'm not sure how to read that.


@Everyone: I've stopped my catch-up at page 20, so if there's anything in the past 10 pages you want my opinion on I'll have a look at it, but I think I can best gather my thoughts now that I'm able to actually to insert myself.

To be fair, if she was trying to get a read on him she wouldn't explicitly say "Hey, I'm just doing this to get a read on you." That defeats the purpose. But I agree that there's not much in there that looks like she's making such an effort. It still looks more to me like she saw something that stood out glaringly at the start of the game and picked up on it as a potential suspicion. I wouldn't necessarily think this to be dishonest if not for her claim just now that she was doing this to get a read on Jay.

Glorfindel wrote:Day 6 - The Discharge

I'm afraid that keeping in contact with this game has been more challenging than I'd imagined it would Still, I think things will settle down now for a while so let me try to find my feet back here again.

On an unrelated note: G, do your write-ups have to be so... graphic? Frankly, I found that last one a trifle disturbing...

I hope you are able to join us soon. Til then, do not sweat it.

RIP SVS.

Let's do a Round 2 of the you-ask-me-questions-I-ask-you-questions game, people.

Quin, how caught up are you? Would you feel comfortable giving us any sort of list of reads or general thoughts at this point?

a2thezebra wrote:RIP SVS.

Let's do a Round 2 of the you-ask-me-questions-I-ask-you-questions game, people.

Why was SVS killed?

Oooooooh, I can vote for Quin OR sanmateo?

linki - I don't know you tell me.

Do any of SVS's reads stand out?

a2thezebra wrote:Oooooooh, I can vote for Quin OR sanmateo?

linki - I don't know you tell me.

You literally just told me and everyone to ask you questions and this is your response?

a2thezebra wrote:Do any of SVS's reads stand out?

What I remember most is that she didn't trust me enough to vote for INH, but that's because it was about me. Does anything stand out to you?

Sloonei wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Oooooooh, I can vote for Quin OR sanmateo?

linki - I don't know you tell me.

You literally just told me and everyone to ask you questions and this is your response?

Well yeah, I didn't say anything about what kind of responses I would have. That's on you for assuming they would be more to your liking.

linki - I'll speed through her ISO and see if something jumps out.

Sloonei wrote:Quin, how caught up are you? Would you feel comfortable giving us any sort of list of reads or general thoughts at this point?

I don't have a list just yet, but one of the biggest thoughts in my mind right now is that I need to suck it up and actually scrutinise the shit storms that went on over the past few days, specifically involving Mac, zebra, MP and 3J (forgive me if I left anyone out). The content of those conversations were slightly repulsive and turned me off reading them, and in hindsight I'm wondering if that was intentional.

That's not specific to me, by the way. I think looking into the actual content of those arguments should be a priority for everyone today.

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Quin, how caught up are you? Would you feel comfortable giving us any sort of list of reads or general thoughts at this point?

I don't have a list just yet, but one of the biggest thoughts in my mind right now is that I need to suck it up and actually scrutinise the shit storms that went on over the past few days, specifically involving Mac, zebra, MP and 3J (forgive me if I left anyone out). The content of those conversations were slightly repulsive and turned me off reading them, and in hindsight I'm wondering if that was intentional.

I was about 75% asleep when I read most of that stuff last night, so I could stand to re-analyze it as well.

Svs strikes me as an off target for a kill. She didn't have a lot of posts (for her). And didn't seem to have any extraordinary opinions that would warrant a kill. She did have some points against mac (particularly that either rico or him was likely mafia) and points against elo. The question is if there is framing going on or if one of them is bad. This definitely makes elo look more suspish in my book. The question I have is if she's being framed; but would mafia use their first two kills in order to frame someone? I'm undecided on that question.

SVS was killed early in Romance after not doing a whole lot. I wonder if the same person or persons made the call. That would make MP the guy ironically lol.

Glorfindel's most recent post is bang on his scum meta.

My gut reaction to SVS dying is that she's a safe target. No one was scum reading her, but she hadn't ruffled any feathers either. Getting rid of her eliminates a player from the townie consensus without upsetting anything else.

MacDougall wrote:SVS was killed early in Romance after not doing a whole lot. I wonder if the same person or persons made the call. That would make MP the guy ironically lol.

Glorfindel's most recent post is bang on his scum meta.

I still wish I could get on board with this Glorfindel suspicion, but his real life situation is preventing me from jumping on it.

I'm feeling the same way, Sloonei.

LoRab wrote:Svs strikes me as an off target for a kill. She didn't have a lot of posts (for her). And didn't seem to have any extraordinary opinions that would warrant a kill. She did have some points against mac (particularly that either rico or him was likely mafia) and points against elo. The question is if there is framing going on or if one of them is bad. This definitely makes elo look more suspish in my book. The question I have is if she's being framed; but would mafia use their first two kills in order to frame someone? I'm undecided on that question.

How exactly does this death reflect poorly on Elohcin?

linki: If you feel the way I do, then I definitely want an answer to this question now.

Sloonei wrote:

LoRab wrote:Svs strikes me as an off target for a kill. She didn't have a lot of posts (for her). And didn't seem to have any extraordinary opinions that would warrant a kill. She did have some points against mac (particularly that either rico or him was likely mafia) and points against elo. The question is if there is framing going on or if one of them is bad. This definitely makes elo look more suspish in my book. The question I have is if she's being framed; but would mafia use their first two kills in order to frame someone? I'm undecided on that question.

How exactly does this death reflect poorly on Elohcin?

linki: If you feel the way I do, then I definitely want an answer to this question now.

She expressed suspicion of Elo. It was mild-ish suspicion, but suspicion nonetheless. And SVS is a force to be reckoned with when she suspects someone. It would not surprise me if a mafia team killed her, with the belief that she would more strongly go after her, as one of the few players she had named as pings.

But lots of people have named Elohcin as a suspect. SVS was far from the most prominent. I feel like tracing this death back to Eloh involves lots of twisting of things. Sure, there's a connection, but I wouldn't call it a big or obvious one that would warrant that sort of motive.

My post was merely my reflections after reading through SVS's posts. In thinking further, it was just as likely a frame job. But, that said, especially in a speed game, it could also be getting rid of someone who has named a teammate. And who is known for going after suspects hard.

LoRab wrote:My post was merely my reflections after reading through SVS's posts. In thinking further, it was just as likely a frame job. But, that said, especially in a speed game, it could also be getting rid of someone who has named a teammate. And who is known for going after suspects hard.

huh?

Sloonei wrote:

LoRab wrote:My post was merely my reflections after reading through SVS's posts. In thinking further, it was just as likely a frame job. But, that said, especially in a speed game, it could also be getting rid of someone who has named a teammate. And who is known for going after suspects hard.

huh?

Sorry for not being clear, although not actually sure where the confusion is. If a player names someone else, and that someone else is mafia, then the mafia as a team might kill them to get rid of that suspicion. That's all I meant. I think that kill philosophy is more likely in a speed game. Basically, SVS named Elo as suspect. If Elo were mafia, then Elo's team might kill SVS as a result of SVS suspecting mafia. Also, mafia could kill SVS to frame Elo, if Elo were not on the team. Trying to decide which is more likely.

Sloonei wrote:But lots of people have named Elohcin as a suspect. SVS was far from the most prominent. I feel like tracing this death back to Eloh involves lots of twisting of things. Sure, there's a connection, but I wouldn't call it a big or obvious one that would warrant that sort of motive.

There is some required speculation, I agree. I think there's an angle of interest though at least worth stating:

S~V~S was a threat to Elohcin, and someone who was more likely to vote for her than the average participant. Removing her removes that vote, and it does so without so conclusively pointing to Elohcin as would killing her more vocal opponents -- particularly me.

As with the Epignosis kill the potential exists for a frame. I do think though that if that's the angle, I'd be dead and not S~V~S. It's also possible S~V~S was killed for a reason irrelevant to Elohcin. All things said this doesn't help her case and I think it might hurt it slightly.

Sloonei wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:Day 6 - The Discharge

I'm afraid that keeping in contact with this game has been more challenging than I'd imagined it would Still, I think things will settle down now for a while so let me try to find my feet back here again.

On an unrelated note: G, do your write-ups have to be so... graphic? Frankly, I found that last one a trifle disturbing...

I hope you are able to join us soon. Til then, do not sweat it.

Thank you, my friend I'm hoping I'll have a bit more time now and I'll do my best.

Catching Up.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:However, I don't agree with JJJ and his vote for me. Epi said it himself that he had no reason for voting/suspecting me.

One of the reasons you've gotten the attention of Neil Hartley for the wrong reasons is that you keep attributing my suspicion of you to Epignosis. Don't get me wrong, Epi is a top gentleman. He knows his stuff. You're talking to Neil though. You know, the main event? The man under the spotlight with the microphone who's been crooning the evening away so divinely? You're talking to me, not Epignosis.

It's weird. I don't know what it is. But your role-playing makes me cringe. (I'm not trying to be mean, just honest.) I think there are multiple reasons for this. First, you have always been such a logical, reasonable player. And this act seems to be the opposite to that. The second reason is difficult for me to explain. I am a very matter-of-fact person. Black and white. The role playing unnerves me for some reason and I think its b/c it seems like you are hiding behind it. Like you don;t have to be real or talk about real issues of the game b/c you are roleplaying. Maybe I am the one being weird, or who IS weird. Maybe I am bringing my own personality issues into this and shouldn't be. FWIW, I think you are civ.

Irony much?

This is the same kind of shit people gave Dom for in roleplaying his Donald Trump impression in a recent game. He contributed more original content while roleplaying than nearly everyone else playing that game. I believe JJJ is doing the same here.

You say you find him civilian now, but JJJ has been providing content even while roleplaying since the start of the game. What has changed? How did you come to a different conclusion?

Citation needed.


You are bad. You are trying to buddy to JJJ.

insertnamehere wrote:Voting for Rico, not only to save myself, but also because nothing said after Day 1 stopped him from being my top scum read. No misquoted, misinterpreted quote that Sloonei slaps in my face like a dead, rotting horse carcass is going to change that.

The case against me is poppycock. There, I said it.

People I'd like to ISO if, in fact, I survive the Day:

Lorab
Dom
motel room

Lorab and Dom I feel are falling into the trap of focusing so much on criticizing the way other people play that they are forgetting to actually provide anything of value themselves. I want to see if they can, in addition to giving it, also take it. Motel Room I feel has been townread by people for not a lot of reasons.

Substantiate this claim.

LoRab wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

LoRab wrote:My post was merely my reflections after reading through SVS's posts. In thinking further, it was just as likely a frame job. But, that said, especially in a speed game, it could also be getting rid of someone who has named a teammate. And who is known for going after suspects hard.

huh?

Sorry for not being clear, although not actually sure where the confusion is. If a player names someone else, and that someone else is mafia, then the mafia as a team might kill them to get rid of that suspicion. That's all I meant. I think that kill philosophy is more likely in a speed game. Basically, SVS named Elo as suspect. If Elo were mafia, then Elo's team might kill SVS as a result of SVS suspecting mafia. Also, mafia could kill SVS to frame Elo, if Elo were not on the team. Trying to decide which is more likely.

But the problem I have with this entire theory is that I don't get why you are drawing a line from SVS to Elohcin or vice versa. Lots of people have talked about Elohcin, and talked a lot more than SVS. If this move was meant to frame or protect Elo, then there's a long list of players they could have gone after. This also makes it a somewhat hopeless act. If Eloh is town, she doesn't really need to be framed anymore. If she is scum, she's probably the most widely suspected member on her team, so I doubt they'd band together to protect her like that. I think it's an odd conclusion to come to that SVS was killed strictly for some reason involving Elohcin.

cut it out with the linki, guys.

Glorfindel wrote:Day 6 - The Discharge

I'm afraid that keeping in contact with this game has been more challenging than I'd imagined it would Still, I think things will settle down now for a while so let me try to find my feet back here again.

On an unrelated note: G, do your write-ups have to be so... graphic? Frankly, I found that last one a trifle disturbing...

I apologize if the content of that night post went a little too far. It's something I was prone to years ago while hosting and old habits die hard. Part of the reasoning behind it is to emphasize the evil nature of the baddies on the narrative side of the equation. The players themselves are not sadistic and evil but the roles they occupy are. If this game were real life, the graphic content corresponds to what I hope is an authentic representation of what psycho killers would do in this given setting.

It does seem at odds with my goofy demeanor in games but I suppose I take hosting more as srsbsnss than playing. The context of the first Mad Max film warrants some graphic content to convey the desperate situation the townsfolk are in. Civilization is collapsing around them in the movie. Perhaps, on some level, I want the civvies to have a parallel mental state as those poor souls in the film. And perhaps that's going too far because I still want you all to have fun. Can you be nauseated by graphic content but still have fun? On that matter, everyone is different.

I'll try to keep it a bit tamer from here on out but be warned that I have at least one other grim ending on tap that I've been sitting on since I posted the game for consideration. Don't be afraid to call me out when you think I've crossed a line. It'll help get better as a host.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:But lots of people have named Elohcin as a suspect. SVS was far from the most prominent. I feel like tracing this death back to Eloh involves lots of twisting of things. Sure, there's a connection, but I wouldn't call it a big or obvious one that would warrant that sort of motive.

There is some required speculation, I agree. I think there's an angle of interest though at least worth stating:

S~V~S was a threat to Elohcin, and someone who was more likely to vote for her than the average participant. Removing her removes that vote, and it does so without so conclusively pointing to Elohcin as would killing her more vocal opponents -- particularly me.

As with the Epignosis kill the potential exists for a frame. I do think though that if that's the angle, I'd be dead and not S~V~S. It's also possible S~V~S was killed for a reason irrelevant to Elohcin. All things said this doesn't help her case and I think it might hurt it slightly.

The middle paragraph makes sense in line with LoRab's thoughts, I suppose.

I am feeling better about the Elohcin case independent of the SVS kill. I think she is my top suspect to start today, but I feel her case is one that could take off quickly and I don't want to risk tipping the scale by placing a vote just yet.

While we're on the subject of G-man's posts, I want to bump this post for fear that it's going to get buried:

Sloonei wrote:Something to keep in mind in this game will be G-Man's host posts. In his last game, Red vs. Blue, be made it clear that his story posts were not just there for flavor, but that they included real hints about the game and we were able to peace together some key game mechanics by analyzing them. That is something we should be keeping an eye out for in this game as well. I've not caught anything yet but if anyone else comes up with anything, shout it out.

Sloonei wrote:I don't want to risk tipping the scale by placing a vote just yet.

Sure. There's a lot to talk about. With no dead baddies we have to do our best collectively to dig through a pile of crappy evidence.

Sloonei wrote:While we're on the subject of G-man's posts, I want to bump this post for fear that it's going to get buried:

Sloonei wrote:Something to keep in mind in this game will be G-Man's host posts. In his last game, Red vs. Blue, be made it clear that his story posts were not just there for flavor, but that they included real hints about the game and we were able to peace together some key game mechanics by analyzing them. That is something we should be keeping an eye out for in this game as well. I've not caught anything yet but if anyone else comes up with anything, shout it out.

I've been following them too. I'm terrible at discerning clues from that stuff, but team work ought to yield something useful eventually.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I don't want to risk tipping the scale by placing a vote just yet.

Sure. There's a lot to talk about. With no dead baddies we have to do our best collectively to dig through a pile of crappy evidence.

One thing I would like to talk about was the way you avoided discussing INH in depth yesterday. Why did that happen?

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I don't want to risk tipping the scale by placing a vote just yet.

Sure. There's a lot to talk about. With no dead baddies we have to do our best collectively to dig through a pile of crappy evidence.

One thing I would like to talk about was the way you avoided discussing INH in depth yesterday. Why did that happen?

I don't know what you mean exactly. He wasn't a priority focus for me given the time I spent talking about other people I guess. In the late stretch I wanted to lynch Elohcin instead of INH or Rico so I put my effort into promoting that alternative. What would you like for me to talk about?

When I pressed you for thoughts on him, this was your response:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'll leave others to comment. Between the two, I think INH is more suspicious than Zebra. His eulogy thing was unnecessary at least.

When his wagon remained a viable lynch option, you said he was a town read but, to my knowledge, never gave much reason why. I remember that you felt he and zebra looked good for their interactions with Epi on Night 1, but what is there beyond that?

Sloonei wrote:While we're on the subject of G-man's posts, I want to bump this post for fear that it's going to get buried:

Sloonei wrote:Something to keep in mind in this game will be G-Man's host posts. In his last game, Red vs. Blue, be made it clear that his story posts were not just there for flavor, but that they included real hints about the game and we were able to peace together some key game mechanics by analyzing them. That is something we should be keeping an eye out for in this game as well. I've not caught anything yet but if anyone else comes up with anything, shout it out.

Red vs. Blue was unique in that it was a closed setup. That allowed me to reference the secret mechanics that only certain roles knew about. In this game, all relevant mechanics are laid bare and there are no secret components to any roles. Night posts are more about flavor now than they were for RvB but there is some info to be gleaned from them. Probably not as much as you're speculating but there are and will be a few nuggets.

G-Man wrote:

Sloonei wrote:While we're on the subject of G-man's posts, I want to bump this post for fear that it's going to get buried:

Sloonei wrote:Something to keep in mind in this game will be G-Man's host posts. In his last game, Red vs. Blue, be made it clear that his story posts were not just there for flavor, but that they included real hints about the game and we were able to peace together some key game mechanics by analyzing them. That is something we should be keeping an eye out for in this game as well. I've not caught anything yet but if anyone else comes up with anything, shout it out.

Red vs. Blue was unique in that it was a closed setup. That allowed me to reference the secret mechanics that only certain roles knew about. In this game, all relevant mechanics are laid bare and there are no secret components to any roles. Night posts are more about flavor now than they were for RvB but there is some info to be gleaned from them. Probably not as much as you're speculating but there are and will be a few nuggets.

Any nuggets are worth calling attention to. But thanks for the clarification.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:And, that said, let me make it clear that despite agreeing with Jay extensively this phase (which I didn't really feel so much during d1), I still disagree with him on the level of confidence in my town read of Rico, among other things. I have him as a slight town read for a reason; he's certainly not my most confident read.

This looks like you're setting up to not be a primary target after the baddie Rico flip.

If that was what I am doing, which I am not, then surely I'm not doing a good job of it, precisely due to your post right here. If that's how you interpret my behavior, so be it. I don't know Rico's alignment. I'm defending him for clearly stated reasons and my perspective. I have no knowledge of anyone's alignment but my own.

Why don't you drink both glasses of wine in front of us?

Sloonei wrote:I just got home and I have two immediate thoughts:
1. Hi Quin
2. What's up with Dom?

You rang?

MacDougall wrote:Quin you seem good so far.

So all my leads are pretty dead. Reassess time.

I agree.

You should vote MP.

LoRab wrote:Svs strikes me as an off target for a kill. She didn't have a lot of posts (for her). And didn't seem to have any extraordinary opinions that would warrant a kill. She did have some points against mac (particularly that either rico or him was likely mafia) and points against elo. The question is if there is framing going on or if one of them is bad. This definitely makes elo look more suspish in my book. The question I have is if she's being framed; but would mafia use their first two kills in order to frame someone? I'm undecided on that question.

Except MP killed pretty much in the same spot in the game in 3 Romance.

MP buddies me.
MP buddies teh roleplayer
MP kills SVS

Hmmm....

Dom wrote:in front of us?

Sloonei wrote:I just got home and I have two immediate thoughts:
1. Hi Quin
2. What's up with Dom?

You rang?

Yes. You've made lots of short, 1-2 word answers and cast a total outlier vote yesterday. Now you've come in today with the same approach, directing all your attention on MP. But I'm not convinced. Because you're not really saying anything about him. Convince me.

Dom wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:And, that said, let me make it clear that despite agreeing with Jay extensively this phase (which I didn't really feel so much during d1), I still disagree with him on the level of confidence in my town read of Rico, among other things. I have him as a slight town read for a reason; he's certainly not my most confident read.

This looks like you're setting up to not be a primary target after the baddie Rico flip.

If that was what I am doing, which I am not, then surely I'm not doing a good job of it, precisely due to your post right here. If that's how you interpret my behavior, so be it. I don't know Rico's alignment. I'm defending him for clearly stated reasons and my perspective. I have no knowledge of anyone's alignment but my own.

Why don't you drink both glasses of wine in front of us?

Sloonei wrote:I just got home and I have two immediate thoughts:
1. Hi Quin
2. What's up with Dom?

You rang?

MacDougall wrote:Quin you seem good so far.

So all my leads are pretty dead. Reassess time.

I agree.

You should vote MP.

LoRab wrote:Svs strikes me as an off target for a kill. She didn't have a lot of posts (for her). And didn't seem to have any extraordinary opinions that would warrant a kill. She did have some points against mac (particularly that either rico or him was likely mafia) and points against elo. The question is if there is framing going on or if one of them is bad. This definitely makes elo look more suspish in my book. The question I have is if she's being framed; but would mafia use their first two kills in order to frame someone? I'm undecided on that question.

Except MP killed pretty much in the same spot in the game in 3 Romance.

MP buddies me.
MP buddies teh roleplayer
MP kills SVS

Hmmm....

I am quite compelled by this.

Sloonei wrote:

Dom wrote:in front of us?

Sloonei wrote:I just got home and I have two immediate thoughts:
1. Hi Quin
2. What's up with Dom?

You rang?

Yes. You've made lots of short, 1-2 word answers and cast a total outlier vote yesterday. Now you've come in today with the same approach, directing all your attention on MP. But I'm not convinced. Because you're not really saying anything about him. Convince me.

Lol here we go again. I am finding Dom's MP argument very compelling and you are not. Maybe you aren't actually trying to. Because you don't really want to find bad guys.

MacDougall wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Dom wrote:in front of us?

Sloonei wrote:I just got home and I have two immediate thoughts:
1. Hi Quin
2. What's up with Dom?

You rang?

Yes. You've made lots of short, 1-2 word answers and cast a total outlier vote yesterday. Now you've come in today with the same approach, directing all your attention on MP. But I'm not convinced. Because you're not really saying anything about him. Convince me.

Lol here we go again. I am finding Dom's MP argument very compelling and you are not. Maybe you aren't actually trying to. Because you don't really want to find bad guys.

What argument?

Sloonei wrote:When I pressed you for thoughts on him, this was your response:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'll leave others to comment. Between the two, I think INH is more suspicious than Zebra. His eulogy thing was unnecessary at least.

When his wagon remained a viable lynch option, you said he was a town read but, to my knowledge, never gave much reason why. I remember that you felt he and zebra looked good for their interactions with Epi on Night 1, but what is there beyond that?

Your suspicion of him in many ways looks familiar to my own incorrect suspicion of him in The Office, and Golden's incorrect suspicion of him in Red vs. Blue. He has a particular way of playing, and of conveying his defenses of himself, that at face value appear deflective and discrediting of his accusers. I don't think he's the type to acknowledge the soundness of a point made against him even if a majority of others feel it is sound.

I've said that my town read on him is more meta-based than evidence-based, and I grant that meta isn't the strongest material to judge someone with. The familiarity of your beef with him with what I've seen fall flat in recent games though makes it difficult for me to support your case against him with any enthusiasm. I do think some of the points you've made are sound; I just wonder whether they reflect alignment-indicative content from this specific player.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:When I pressed you for thoughts on him, this was your response:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'll leave others to comment. Between the two, I think INH is more suspicious than Zebra. His eulogy thing was unnecessary at least.

When his wagon remained a viable lynch option, you said he was a town read but, to my knowledge, never gave much reason why. I remember that you felt he and zebra looked good for their interactions with Epi on Night 1, but what is there beyond that?

Your suspicion of him in many ways looks familiar to my own incorrect suspicion of him in The Office, and Golden's incorrect suspicion of him in Red vs. Blue. He has a particular way of playing, and of conveying his defenses of himself, that at face value appear deflective and discrediting of his accusers. I don't think he's the type to acknowledge the soundness of a point made against him even if a majority of others feel it is sound.

I've said that my town read on him is more meta-based than evidence-based, and I grant that meta isn't the strongest material to judge someone with. The familiarity of your beef with him with what I've seen fall flat in recent games though makes it difficult for me to support your case against him with any enthusiasm. I do think some of the points you've made are sound; I just wonder whether they reflect alignment-indicative content from this specific player.

That's all fair. Red vs. Blue is my only prior experience with him (I never saw him make a post in Three Kingdoms), so my sense of his meta game isn't strong. I do notice the similarities between the two games, but I had a pretty easy town read on him early on in that game as well. I forget what exactly drew me to that conclusion right now, but whatever it was, I did not see it in this game.