Space Invaders [END]

[Alison]

i decided to put my paranoia aside because my town circle is too small.

proto is lock town for me for this. This reeks of desperation to have a firm read or someone they can trust in a game that's filled with paranoia and uncertainty, which points strongly to "uninformed player".

Not sure how to interpret nanook being super insistent about the protection plan thing. Could see it coming from both town and scum so I'm going to say it's NAI.

[tutuu]

Rej and LC for most uninspiring and in PoE.

Alison and Dunya for most ??? and in PoE.

Tony for most likely to be correct tinfoil and in PoE.

@tutuu Did you ever answer how you came to know Carot by the name of Carotte?

She told me in scum chat and I slipped itt

I specced game 6 of MU champs

[Alison]

I see via quick scan I'm on Soneji's shit list too.

Can anybody provide any reason why I'm Alien?

Besides "vibes?"

Well, master. You're kind of just on the outside, and you don't have a lot of impact or give the game much direction, is how I feel. More an observation than a read. A lot of the times when you're town I've seen you be way more pushy and forceful with your solving. Here you're kind of just pushing with one hand. I'm about positive that you'll hate this, but this is how i feel xD

If this is one-handed Epi, I'm dying to see full force Epi.

[Dyslexicon]

Rej and LC for most uninspiring and in PoE.

Alison and Dunya for most ??? and in PoE.

Tony for most likely to be correct tinfoil and in PoE.

@tutuu Did you ever answer how you came to know Carot by the name of Carotte?

She told me in scum chat and I slipped itt

I specced game 6 of MU champs

But did you know it was the same person? I also specced that game.

[tutuu]

Some stuff I want to say

@Dizzy I appreciate your sentiment about how you understand my brain. I feel the same way about you. It's cool to me every time I read your posts, it's like I'm looking at a mirror, except the mirror is kinda better than me but STILL.

[mention]dunya[/mention] when you mentioned that you're bummed that I lost faith in you, I know that was obviously an adorable remark made in jest, but I can't stop thinking about it and I feel like a worthless person. I genuinely apologize. I know I shouldn't, I know that the emotion I'm feeling rn is completely irrational with every fibre of my brain, and that this was nowhere near your intent but I just can't help it. I'm really, really, really sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Please like me still (sorry)

Also I'm finally at the comfort of my own home. Imagine that, having internet in your own home and the ability to stretch your legs on your bed as you're playing mafia and the luxury of having a laptop to type on and the convenience to use grammar and punctuation and stuff. Oh lordy lord.

Scum beware. My strength just increased tenfold and you are all in trouble. I feel so strong rn that I will even finish that argument that I started with proto and bury the hatchet and move on, with no grudges, that's the mature thing to do. Life is good.

[Hally]

Meh, I'm not sure how to feel about Mac. I still think his earlier behavior was legitimately bad (and I don't understand why people are saying I'm overreacting or being overly harsh in my criticism of it), but it's improved a lot insofar as his posts have gone from basically word/read salad to, like, actual developments with actual reasoning behind them even if it's a playstyle that's very different from mine. Probably the Soneji flip looks good for him. Hally is correct that the setup means scumreading your buddy when they're under pressure from the laser meanas less in this setup, but when nutella put power in Mac's hands (him choosing from her shortlist) he actively chose to have Soneji shot.

i can soooorta see what you’re saying about mac’s early play. but when i try to put myself in mac’s shoes, if i was town and subbed in and saw literally everyone writing me off as scum based on posts that weren’t even mine and not even wanting to give me a chance despite it being D0 that would frustrate me greatly and i think that can explain his early posts. and i dont agree that they were word salad or lolcatting. it seemed like he was actually giving takes even though they were scattered. idk i dont think writing them off as lolcatting is accurate or the most charitable, because i highly doubt scum!mac reps in on D0 and sees ppl scum reading him and goes “well, time to throw in the towel and lolcat immediately.” he seems like too prideful a player to not even try to help his team and play his way out of it

[tutuu]

Rej and LC for most uninspiring and in PoE.

Alison and Dunya for most ??? and in PoE.

Tony for most likely to be correct tinfoil and in PoE.

@tutuu Did you ever answer how you came to know Carot by the name of Carotte?

She told me in scum chat and I slipped itt

I specced game 6 of MU champs

But did you know it was the same person? I also specced that game.

Same avatar

[Dyslexicon]

Same avatar

Thank you for killing my tinfoil, I'm happy again

[Hally]

allison is trending back up with recent posts

[Dyslexicon]

@Dizzy I appreciate your sentiment about how you understand my brain. I feel the same way about you. It's cool to me every time I read your posts, it's like I'm looking at a mirror, except the mirror is kinda better than me but STILL.

Aww yay! I usually get the opposite going. People thinking I make no sense at all. =p

Hally, let's adopt this one.

[Hally]

Rej and LC for most uninspiring and in PoE.

Alison and Dunya for most ??? and in PoE.

Tony for most likely to be correct tinfoil and in PoE.

@tutuu Did you ever answer how you came to know Carot by the name of Carotte?

She told me in scum chat and I slipped itt

I specced game 6 of MU champs

But did you know it was the same person? I also specced that game.

i knew it was carotte too same avi and carotenoid is the name fatmo called her by. also her writing style is exactly the same. no tinfoil necessary here imo

[Dyslexicon]

allison is trending back up with recent posts

I was just about to say, what if Alison is just town. Wouldn't be surprising really.
Also think Mac putting me out of his PoE because you said so and he likes me is a good look. Like, he doesn't have to do that. I think I'm over suspecting Mac probably maybe probably.

Rej, Dunya, LC and still not sure on Tony. <--- Salad?

[Hally]

Some stuff I want to say

@Dizzy I appreciate your sentiment about how you understand my brain. I feel the same way about you. It's cool to me every time I read your posts, it's like I'm looking at a mirror, except the mirror is kinda better than me but STILL.

@dunya when you mentioned that you're bummed that I lost faith in you, I know that was obviously an adorable remark made in jest, but I can't stop thinking about it and I feel like a worthless person. I genuinely apologize. I know I shouldn't, I know that the emotion I'm feeling rn is completely irrational with every fibre of my brain, and that this was nowhere near your intent but I just can't help it. I'm really, really, really sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Please like me still (sorry)

Also I'm finally at the comfort of my own home. Imagine that, having internet in your own home and the ability to stretch your legs on your bed as you're playing mafia and the luxury of having a laptop to type on and the convenience to use grammar and punctuation and stuff. Oh lordy lord.

Scum beware. My strength just increased tenfold and you are all in trouble. I feel so strong rn that I will even finish that argument that I started with proto and bury the hatchet and move on, with no grudges, that's the mature thing to do. Life is good.

i love you and want to hug you and be your friend

[Hally]

@Dizzy I appreciate your sentiment about how you understand my brain. I feel the same way about you. It's cool to me every time I read your posts, it's like I'm looking at a mirror, except the mirror is kinda better than me but STILL.

Aww yay! I usually get the opposite going. People thinking I make no sense at all. =p

Hally, let's adopt this one.

application accepted!

[Alison]

Dunya - Why are you dropping off, my love? Where you trying to make Mac and me look bad in the start of the game? Are you being a scummy scumbum? *Laser stare intensifies*

Alison - Didn't mention Soneji much around when the shooting happened. Very singular focus on me. I had her connected with Mac, cause that read sort of TMI to me. So it's a weird thing, cause I think if Alison or Mac flips scum, the other one has a higher chance of flipping scum. And if Mac is town, that may make Alison less likely scum? Thing is, I don't at all understand her leap to making Mac scum just because I had a scum read on Mac. Seems so random. Alison can't know this, but I hadn't even read anyone else's suspicion on Drag when I made my own, as I wasn't caught up with the game. Her method here is just so strange to me. I just conclude that I don't understand her, she's done nothing that I can say clears her, and she's in PoE.

I agreed with a pretty large amount of your reads list (and I generally treat mindmelds as a towntell), except for these two reads. I don't really understand this attack on dunya, since going AWOL for like one day is just IRL issues rather than anything alignment indicative most of the time, unless you had specific reason to believe dunya was reading the thread but not posting, or a meta tell on this activity. Also no clue what "were you trying to make Mac and me look bad in the start of the game" refers to.

Re: your read on me, no idea how to make it any more clear than I already have. I don't think I've had an inordinate focus on you when I spent a lot of time arguing with Epi, attacking Mac, etc. Three different players (you, Epi, Mac) have all accused me of having an absurd amount of focus on them and them alone even when it's not warranted, which really annoys me because obviously I can't have a singular focus on three people at once. My scumread on you was based on a specific theory that you were scum buddies with Dragomir so obviously I'd read them scum.

[Hally]

allison is trending back up with recent posts

I was just about to say, what if Alison is just town. Wouldn't be surprising really.
Also think Mac putting me out of his PoE because you said so and he likes me is a good look. Like, he doesn't have to do that. I think I'm over suspecting Mac probably maybe probably.

Rej, Dunya, LC and still not sure on Tony. <--- Salad?

spoiler alert: LC/dunya is my tinfoil pairing. i see stuff between them

[tutuu]

Nah fam im still just as town its not my fault u guys r wrongly reading the soneji spew about me

you arent less town because of anything with soneji.

you are less town for your reasoning as to why Epi is town. What was Epi's REASON for thinking you were an alien, rather than just giving them a townread for being contrarion. What did you think of their reasoning?

Im not less town for my townread on epi unless u have tmi dont talk annoying stuff like that. As if im wrong. If ur town u dont know if im right or wrong so dont say stuff with utmost confidence

Epis reason for thinking im scum is obviously dumb and wrong from my pov and i dont care about them being wrong about it tf does this have to do with anything

Yeah, you keep falling off the town train.

Where is the TMI? Did you even read what I posted? Have you engaged with it at all?

You basically are saying Epi's reason for thinking you are scum is obviously dumb, and you want to townread them because of an obviously dumb read.

Okay [mention]protocultures[/mention] , so:

When I said "TMI" I meant that unless you know for a fact I am wrong about my read on Epi (which you can only do if you have TMI) then you cannot know that I am wrong about them being town. Therefore, it didn't feel right to me that you are "attacking me" for expressing a townread on them, because I (personally and subjectively) felt as if you are disparaging me for it. Like "tutuu wtf are u doing, this makes no sense, ur scum". I could be wrong in my perception, in which case I apologize.

I will stand by my opinion on Epi, I literally don't remember a single thing that they said about me, and I don't care enough to remember. I stand by my townread on them, and that's what's important to me.

Yes, I did read what you posted. And yes, I did engage, maybe not so cooperatively the first time, but now I am.

And the last sentence is both correct and incorrect. I think I remember you saying that if I'm town and honest, then it means that I must believe Epi is dumb. And if I don't believe Epi is dumb, it means that I am a liar.

In my opinion that's a silly way to look at things. I wouldn't judge people based off one read they make in a mafia game.

I do think the read Epi made on me is dumb. I do not think that Epi is dumb because of it, from this sample of 1 game I have played with them, and this 1 read I paid attention to them.

[Hally]

what if it’s just rej/LC/dunya? then life would be good and happy. but is life ever good and happy? not in mafia. but still, what if

[Alison]

ok so unrelated to the game but I have a small but insistent preference that my name be spelled with one L. It's a name I chose for myself, I'm very happy to have it and I think it suits me better than Allison with two Ls by a large margin. And I'm generally tired of people getting my name wrong IRL so I do prefer if people call me Alison when they talk to me. It isn't a big deal at all but I would greatly appreciate it and thanks.

[tutuu]

what if it’s just rej/LC/dunya? then life would be good and happy. but is life ever good and happy? not in mafia. but still, what if

From my pov it's rej/LC/Tony

I still don't understand why people are adamant in defending Tony.

I am very aware I have 0 meta and you guys probably do, but ...

Why? Why? Why? Why is Tony town?

Anyone townread Tony aside from meta? Apologies if I missed it.

[Hally]

ok so unrelated to the game but I have a small but insistent preference that my name be spelled with one L. It's a name I chose for myself, I'm very happy to have it and I think it suits me better than Allison with two Ls by a large margin. And I'm generally tired of people getting my name wrong IRL so I do prefer if people call me Alison when they talk to me. It isn't a big deal at all but I would greatly appreciate it and thanks.

oh sorry! i didn’t notice the spelling. i will be mindful of this in the future

[Alison]

for some reason I seem to be able to connect better with certain people's posts while others are just blanks/nulls and I like, instinctively skim over them.

dizzy, epi, dunya, tutuu etc. vs people like TSP/rej/LC who I legitimately can't seem to parse or read and want to engage with more

[Alison]

ok so unrelated to the game but I have a small but insistent preference that my name be spelled with one L. It's a name I chose for myself, I'm very happy to have it and I think it suits me better than Allison with two Ls by a large margin. And I'm generally tired of people getting my name wrong IRL so I do prefer if people call me Alison when they talk to me. It isn't a big deal at all but I would greatly appreciate it and thanks.

oh sorry! i didn’t notice the spelling. i will be mindful of this in the future

thank you hally! <3

[Hally]

what if it’s just rej/LC/dunya? then life would be good and happy. but is life ever good and happy? not in mafia. but still, what if

From my pov it's rej/LC/Tony

I still don't understand why people are adamant in defending Tony.

I am very aware I have 0 meta and you guys probably do, but ...

Why? Why? Why? Why is Tony town?

Anyone townread Tony aside from meta? Apologies if I missed it.

he did hard scum read soneji before anyone else and push for that shot. to the extent that you dont think thats a bus he should be a town read

[tutuu]

for some reason I seem to be able to connect better with certain people's posts while others are just blanks/nulls and I like, instinctively skim over them.

dizzy, epi, dunya, tutuu etc. vs people like TSP/rej/LC who I legitimately can't seem to parse or read and want to engage with more

Maybe your brain is attuned to town wavelengths and you can't intercept alien wavelengths.

[tutuu]

he did hard scum read soneji before anyone else and push for that shot. to the extent that you dont think thats a bus he should be a town read

Thanks, this is genuinely the first time I am made aware of this. I will reread then and try to be conscious of myself if I'm tunneling a townie.

[Alison]

What is it about Epi's play that's unimaginable?

its so openly selfish and uncooperative in a way where it is clear that town should be cooperating to increases chances of winning.

^^^^^^^^^^ this is town

this is town frustrated at someone behaving in a way they think is anti-town

scum might express a similar sentiment to look good, but ham it up, dramatize about epi being a liability, etc. this tone is SUPER pure and is just straight "we should be working together. why aren't you?"

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

He is annoying me. Maybe he could even be maf but that would just be a bonus

<3

Annoyance is the glue of a mafia game.

I think Proto is town because 1) He put himself in a position of being the judge of others, like placing himself above others and kind of a righteous way, and that is a very towny (if a bit of an annoying) attitude and 2) he was annoyed that people didn't interact with his ideas. Both of these things are towny mind frames imo. His reads have been lackluster imo and that's besides the point. Also, Soneji gave him a town read that looked way TMI more than randomly defending a teammate that already wasn't scum read.

From a whopping sample size of like four, I think that’s just proto tbh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You basically are saying Epi's reason for thinking you are scum is obviously dumb, and you want to townread them because of an obviously dumb read.

And your issue with this is....?

there is no issue with this if tutuu think Epi is actually dumb.

I dont think tutuu thinks epi is dumb.

Thats my issue.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 106#p41744 for reference.

Smart townies make dumb reads literally all the time, otherwise this game would be easy and boring

[tutuu]

Spoiler: show

soneji kinda wolf got a funny thing

Is this based on anything more than OMGUS?

Spoiler: show

People posting too much for a d0

I don't see any need to tell nutella what to do. I would rather nutella just kill someone.

It's not telling, just suggesting.

Vote Epignosis

(yes, I know it doesn't do anything, I just want to make it clear what my stance is from day to day)


Making a list of who protects who only gives more information to the mafia about who is unprotected. And mafia wins the game immediately if they kill nutella, so it is completely useless to know who failed to protect her the day after we lose the game. The strategy you are proposing would make it trivially easy for the mafia to win just by attacking the operator on the night where a mafia member is scheduled to protect her. And a public list of who protects who would make it easier for the mafia to know who they can safely kill since there isn't enough heals to protect everyone at once.

It is correct for town to keep when and who they are using their protect on secret so mafia doesn't know who is being protected, if the operator is shielded, and how many protects the town has left.

Why are you preemptively thinking you'll be called out for making a vote, even in a game where they don’t officially matter to the lynch?

The primary goal with the protects isn't to be blocking every shot, just those aimed at nutella. The secondary goal with the protects should be to keep the towncore alive.

Oh yea i was also thinking of using RNG to determine our protections

like idk the numbers but lets say arbitrarily say 10% , each bunker goes to rand.org or however eas the site, rolls between 1 and 100, if its 1 to 10 they protect nutella, otherwise save their shot. Obv different on even nights and as more of us die but u get the idea. Like, just think of some numbers that will give us good odds, i think its okay to slightly potentially lose the game on the first night if it means bigger chance to win in the end

That’s not what we’re doing lol

feels annoying to disparage my idea without even giving it a chance as if its something silly, and as if luck isnt already involved to a degree in mafia

This plan seems too wolfy to be a wolf, especially with the genuine seeming offense to their idea being dismissed.

Also, I'm a bunker and I'm always going to be defending nutella. Don't waste your defense on me.

That should say "Don't waste your defense on nutella."

On the multikill nights more people need to protect me though right?

I only vaguely understand the setup....

and if Epi's an alien...

On the multikill nights more people need to protect me though right?

I only vaguely understand the setup....

2 people. You'll be fine. I promise. Epi and dun got ur back gurl

This is over is an alien laser shoots nutella. That's it.

Bunkers have limited protections. After I'm spent, someone else will need to carry on in my stead (or if I get killed).

This is about setting up a network of protections so that it's clear who failed and is therefore mafia.

regardless, I think this is town

Sow doubt on Epi, then swiftly call him town anyways:hmm

We publicly make a list of who protects who. When someone dies we know who lied

okay, but I'm not going through with this unless there are at least 2 people defending Nutella and possibly 3

@linki oh yeah and bunker protects are limited. It might be best to save them until endgame and just force the poe to protect Nutella each day

The PoE are almost always going to be the ones you least want protecting the Laser.

All this strategy talk is hurting my brain. I'm merely glancing at these posts right now.

Drago got replaced so not expecting Mac to answer for this, but yeah trying to act lost here when everyone else is doing fine with mechanics talk, and offering up nothing else besides is a bad look.

All this strategy talk is hurting my brain. I'm merely glancing at these posts right now.

Then ignore mechanics, project town and find scum. We’ll take care of the mechanics.

Good look from Nanook to push Drago into being productive.

Drago doesnt like Spacemovies = bad

Dunya, Alison and Tutu are town GTH, nice energy.
Not excluding the possibility that a wolf is coordinating the mechtalk with others.

Tho nothing else pinged me for now. I am at work, will be properly active later on.

Toss out a few townreads, blanket shade the majority of the game thread, then dip. Whoo boy.

It is likely that there was a wolf participating in the mech discussion just on the probability that one was around to post and that it was the main conversation point, but pointing this out without giving a specific person/s that come off wolfy with their approach to the discussion is just going to sow discord.

I think we should have at least 3 people saving nutella on any given day. The rest can be up to whatever people wanna do and leave it as a mystery for the aliens to misfire. Hunting through nk is hard at this stage if we want to preserve saves. So we can do regular hunting and I think we already have lots of good content to go through.

How do we go about selecting those 3 ppl?

Tony thinks our scummiest 4 should protect her. We coordinate that itt. I understand why, but my scummiest 4 could be the whole maf team gg y'all ;p but yeah, for a day 1 strategy it makes most sense.

I think it works only for a n1 strategy, as the scum team would have to be exactly the bottom #2-5 of the PoE for us to lose there(the very bottom #1 gets blasted by nutella).

Hello fellow players. First forum game for me, I am a fairly new mafia player but have played on DM a few times and play the occasional voice/text game over discord. I live in GMT timezone so will probably be out of sync with a lot of you. I draft in word and paste into the forum so hopefully the formatting doesn’t go into the toilet. As editing posts is forbidden, I may repost if this turns out to be a problem.

Spoiler: show

The setup is new to me, so I will state a brief understanding of how this works below. If other people have a different view/better understanding, it would be great if people (or the mod) could let me know.

10 bunkers with 4 saves each who don’t know anything other than Nutella is the Laser.

4 aliens who have perfect information.

Odd nights – 1 alien KP.

Even nights – 2 alien KP till 2.

QUESTION – if player x saves themselves, or player y saves player x, and the town laser is shot at player x, does the laser go through the bunker save?

QUESTION – This is a day 0 start, so does laser get to shoot at the end of Day 0? Does it go to Night 0 or Night 1? This is important to work out alien KP and how many saves should be on Nutella.

QUESTION – can aliens no shoot in the night?

I feel like there is a mathematically optimal solution to this game for every night but I am not smart enough to figure it out.

My proposal for Night 0 or Night 1, depending on which it will be is set out below.

We want the minimum number of saves on Nutella but with some math behind it. These saves should be selected and made public by Nutella and all players who are nominated by Nutella to save Nutella should indeed save Nutella with no exceptions. They need to confirm receipt of the message and confirm they will save Nutella, or Nutella needs to re-nominate someone who has seen their request. This should be entirely elected by Nutella and not depend on people saying they will save Nutella – ie picking into Dunya/Epignosis without rnging them is bad.

The other players should make their saves or no saves in secret, but claim them at the start of the next day along with reasons. Town should never lie about their saves in the night and I am a firm believer of laser all liars in this setup.
If aliens have 1 night KP, I suggest 3 nominated saves and if aliens have 2 night KP, I suggest 4 nominated saves.
See some napkin math below which might be wrong, but lets see if I can still remember combinatronics.
1 Alien KP – need to ensure we land AT LEAST 1 town save, so this is basically any outcome except 3 aliens in the 3 nominations. This is 1 minus (4/14 x 3/13 x 2/12) = 1 – 24/2184 = 98.9% Laser lives through the night. I can accept a 1.1% loss in first night if the benefit is that we get to not waste additional bunker saves.
2 Alien KP – need to ensure we land AT LEAST 2 town saves. This gets a bit harder so please flame me loudly if there is an error in the math so we can try and fix it before we nominate saves (assuming I can get laser and town to buy into my plan).
With 4 nominations, there are 5 outcomes with the following distribution:

4 aliens: 4/14 x 3/13 x 2/12 x 1/11 = 24/24,024 = 0.1% (we lose first night with no saves on Nutella)

3 aliens, 1 town: 4/14 x 3/13 x 2/12 x 10/11 x 4 combos = 960/24,024 = 4 % (we lose first night with 1 saves on Nutella)

2 aliens, 2 town: 4/14 x 3/13 x 10/12 x 9/11 x 6 combos = 6,480/24,024 = 27% (we land 2 saves on
Nutella)

1 alien, 3 town: 10/14 x 9/13 x 8/12 x 4/11 x 4 combos = 11,520/24,024 = 48% (we land 3 saves on Nutella)

4 town: 10/14 x 9/13 x 8/12 x 7/11 = 5,040 /24,024 = 21% (we land 4 saves on Nutella)

I am okay with 4.1% loss in first night.

My current reads/leanings. Cant necessarily justify them all, because its not always rational or justifiable. Its just how their posts make my gut feel.

Alison – hard town. Thinks Epignosis is alien, and agree re full list of saves being anti town.

Bimbo – no posts.

Carotenoid – light alien read for the short intro. Good to know Mac would agree.

Dragomir – null to light town.

Dyslexicon – null to alien for no solve in 3 posts. “game” doesn’t count and I believe is just to appear non-coaster.

Dunya – started off towny, but then slips into hard alien with the later posts. Implied statement that Carotenoid is town “Can't wait to see your super shiny townies self! ”, and the hard tunnel onto LC at the start of day 0. Might be a meta thing I just have no idea but could also just be distancing. Then claims laser will be fine because Dunya/Epi will be using their save onto the laser. “2 people. You'll be fine. I promise. Epi and dun got ur back gurl”. This would be fine if they were both exactly town, but how does anyone else know they are both town? We don’t. “We publicly make a list of who protects who. When someone dies we know who lied” – this is also super alien. We should mix the saves into public and private so the aliens do not have perfect info on saves. Dunya in later posts moves back into town. My head hurts.

Epignosis – hard alien – it’s a vibe thing, cant explain it.

Long Con – Alien. Cant believe they called themselves a bunkerman instead of a bunker person. Consider myself triggered. Gets slightly town for thinking that having no saves left day 5 onward is bad but not that much. “We have to assume the aliens will try to kill nutella every night. We will non-randomly arrange protects to ensure, and insure, that she has multiple layers of protection each night. We will do this in a way that eliminates the possibility of unfortuitously picking all aliens to protect her.” Seems towny but to eliminate the possibility of picking all aliens, we need to use a LOT of bunker saves every even night. Also thinks aliens will be trying to kill the laser every night. I hard disagree and think aliens will leave the laser alone all game since its way easier to kill all the bunkers and win that way. On a meta read without ever having played with them, I simply don’t believe someone with 13k posts would think the aliens would be trying to kill the laser every night.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME – light town for thinking a protection scheme can/should exist. Does not want rng factors into the saves onto Nutella and prefers a set scheme TBC. The arguments with tutu re “trolling” seems town on town to me.

Nutella – LASER

Protocultures – the towniest town that ever towned in the history of townhood

Rej – thinks Dunya, Alison and Tutuu are town GTH. No idea what GTH means but I kinda like their town circle.

Soneji – null to very very light town for having looked into strategies as could have done it for either alignment.

TonyStarkPrime – Null to alien. The strategy of 4 most scummy players onto Laser is bad since if we get 3+ aliens, we insta lose. I much prefer a random 4 than we pick the 4 scummiest, especially since aliens will then try to look scummy intentionally.

Tutuu - Medium town. Wants to know if laser gets to shoot Day 0. Wants town to mass rng saves onto the laser and thinks its okay to lose a non-zero percentage on first night to increase overall town win percentage by not blowing all the bunker saves the first 4 days. I agree with this concept. Tutu thinks Dunya is light town and LongCon is town. I think its weird that Tutuu reads LongCon as town for subjectively incorrect logic, but it seems genuine.

The effort shown here, and in their many other posts, along with a solid progression on their reads puts proto as very likely town. I think the best look of all is this first post, where I would think an over eager, new to forum mafia wolf, would just think about impressing with their mechanics/math and forget to actually give proper reads but proto went above and beyond.

(ioa information over analysis is what i was looking for)

Doesn't surprise me given him saying he is new to forum mafia.

hyijifhinrjdfihbrenjdfhedsi aaaaaaaah multiquote button didn't work bierjnnfierhehuj
*take a deep breathe* it's gonna be okay
anyway

TonyStarkPrime's plan seems to be the best so far, but it's kinda risky to the not-poe-people past n1, if that makes sense. So I propose that we kinda flip it around:

- On odd nights, two top townreads (or like one top townread + 2 midlytownread that can't all be wolves together) protect nutella. And then we could do something like bottom of POE protect the people protecting nutella and all the others only self-protect if they feel the need to.

- On even nights, bottom of POE protect nutella. The rest of the players only self-protect if they feel the need to.

That way, the protection shots are used more horizontally and avoids that town ends up with no shots at the end. Also I feel like unless we specifically coordinate something specific in the thread, bunker shots should only be used on their own slot.

The odd night plan is pretty solid, but the even night is wack. You need to have confidence in there being two town protects in there on even nights. On odd nights needing just one you have more leeway to include the PoE.

I also think that nobody except Nutella should be saved, full stop. Including self saves.

How about NO! You crazy Dutch bastard!

ok, misread the OP - I thought each Bunker could only protect once. Apparently they have 4 shots. Still not enough to waste them on a mass protect of every player in the game.

Misread the OP versus misread role PM:hmm


Coming out of d0 roughly where I'm at :

Good

proto
tutuu
Dunya

Still deciding

Nanook
Long Con
Carot
Dizzy
Bimbo(don't think they posted?)

Bad

Epi
TSP
Alison
Rej
Drago/Mac


As for the strat I think is best : I'm good with the bottom four PoE strat for n1 only, otherwise think top 3 towncore should protect nutella on odd nights, top 4 towncore on even nights. Could mix in some of the middle of the pack to preserve some of the top towncores protects, best to adjust that as we go. On that first night, the middling PoE should use their protects on the towncore. On subsequent nights the bottom of the PoE should be protecting the towncore, with probably a double up on the very top of the towncore. Force aliens to shoot into bottom or middling Poe, or have to use two kills on even nights to kill one towncore and not even the best SPK they could get.

For simplicities sake, will lay out the first three nights :

N1 : Bottom four of the PoE assigned to protect nutella, while the next three lowest PoE protect the top 3 towncore.

N2 : Top three towncore+one middling PoE protect nutella, while the bottom three to four in the PoE protect the top 3 towncore. If four double up on the very top towncore SPK.

N3 : Top two towncore+one middling PoE protect nutella, bottom three PoE protects top three towncore.

With this we can shuffle enough to have top towncore with protects left up until late. It's a small game, so I think people are overestimating how conservative we need to be with protects. By the end of n4, there can be up to 10 deaths if the aliens succeed on both their double kills. Then n5 being an odd night needs only one towncore with a protect left alive to secure nutella's safety.


Now onto d1.

phew this is some wishy washy stuff, you partially have summarizes then try to reason your own opinion, you have a hard time to fit in
that PoE looks good if you flip it by 180 degree and keep Mac at the bottom

talk with me about Epi

I don't think you understand what the term wishy-washy means here, and I'm not sure what the rest of your post is trying to say. That I have a split in my post between just giving a summary of the situation and doing analysis?

Epi to me looks like he could be powerwolfing it up this game by making things all about nutella and discrediting the worth of town as a whole. He has the clout to be able to get away with acting in such a way.

Proto's been towned too easily.

Proto is probably town

I'm afraid of making the wrong assumption about Soneji because I pretty much always do tbh, I think I just have never really understood how he works as a player. His one long catchup post didn't feel on a gut level similar to the last time I saw him as town, but I may also be biasing on the low total number of posts and the fact that he only really has late-catch-up stuff and I have trouble reading that over more actual interactions.

Last time to be fair you were scum, and I had Mac to have a passing match with.

I see via quick scan I'm on Soneji's shit list too.

Can anybody provide any reason why I'm Alien?

Besides "vibes?"

Your general attitude has been one of dismissing players by the regular merits of the game, to give extra weight to nutella's place in this game alone.
[/quote]

I mean I may be confbiasing (I probably am)

But this feels w/w with both Tony and Rej.

Like you know, that moment where as mafia, you point out (very accurately) the scummy stuff that your partners do (in an attempt to distance). Maybe it's the confbias speaking, and/or maybe it's just my personal experience speaking, but when scum distance from each other, they list out very precisely the exact scumminess in their partners.

"phew this is some wishy washy stuff, you partially have summarizes then try to reason your own opinion"

soneji kinda wolf got a funny thing

(snip)
(context is this was a soneji post) (this is written by me tutuu)



I also sort of scumread the strategy given. day 1 it's just protoculture's though basically? fine I guess

Hally, are we really going to think this is Tony "going hard" on Soneji?

"soneji kinda wolf got a funny thing" and "fine I guess" ?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Rej and LC for most uninspiring and in PoE.

Alison and Dunya for most ??? and in PoE.

Tony for most likely to be correct tinfoil and in PoE.

@tutuu Did you ever answer how you came to know Carot by the name of Carotte?

half the game is saying Carotte

[TonyStarkPrime]

This thread got a lot of new posts. I'll be doing my best to catch up ASAP.

@TSP, I am sad that you didn't take me up on my offer to talk more. After I catch up will you do so?

Maybe. Kinda tired. Over-exerted again.

[TonyStarkPrime]

what if it’s just rej/LC/dunya? then life would be good and happy. but is life ever good and happy? not in mafia. but still, what if

From my pov it's rej/LC/Tony

I still don't understand why people are adamant in defending Tony.

I am very aware I have 0 meta and you guys probably do, but ...

Why? Why? Why? Why is Tony town?

Anyone townread Tony aside from meta? Apologies if I missed it.

Is anyone townreading me from meta?
I’m just Town. Don’t worry about it. Thanks for saving me from having to use a self doc though.

[tutuu]

Tony said that he doesn't have a read on me (I'm still unsure if he ever made one)

This is a selfish read for me to make, but how hard is it to make a read on me? Most people I agree i'm obv town, Epi and proto are pushing their tinfoils that I'm maf and that's fine, how do you ever not get a read on me?

Also his strawmen with regards to Alison were annoying to me (annoying in the sense that I heavily disagree with the logic, not that he said anything bad)

Its not an alison thing its a person thing

Ppl tryhard as town more often than maf in games where stakes arent that high

Most ppl view playing maf as a chore and if ur town u can do whatever u want

going and reviewing half a dozen games of meta sounds like a chore to me

Look at the shade he's throwing on Alison wtf

I am full on tunneling here I really apologize if you're town here Tony but I just can't help it I really really really really really really really think you're maf.

[TonyStarkPrime]

for some reason I seem to be able to connect better with certain people's posts while others are just blanks/nulls and I like, instinctively skim over them.

dizzy, epi, dunya, tutuu etc. vs people like TSP/rej/LC who I legitimately can't seem to parse or read and want to engage with more

Maybe your brain is attuned to town wavelengths and you can't intercept alien wavelengths.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Tony said that he doesn't have a read on me (I'm still unsure if he ever made one)

This is a selfish read for me to make, but how hard is it to make a read on me? Most people I agree i'm obv town, Epi and proto are pushing their tinfoils that I'm maf and that's fine, how do you ever not get a read on me?

Also his strawmen with regards to Alison were annoying to me (annoying in the sense that I heavily disagree with the logic, not that he said anything bad)

Its not an alison thing its a person thing

Ppl tryhard as town more often than maf in games where stakes arent that high

Most ppl view playing maf as a chore and if ur town u can do whatever u want

going and reviewing half a dozen games of meta sounds like a chore to me

Look at the shade he's throwing on Alison wtf

I am full on tunneling here I really apologize if you're town here Tony but I just can't help it I really really really really really really really think you're maf.

We need a definition of straw man here.

[tutuu]

I see nothing towny from LC they can be the next shot. I feel like they haven't put in a lot of effort, my bad if I missed it. Less effort than Tony so I would shoot LC first based off principle.

Rej has been doing some stuff and in a vacuum I see absolutely nothing wrong with it, but when you just compare it to the immense amount of townyness everyone else exudes, you just can't not scumread Rej.

[tutuu]

We need a definition of straw man here.

"an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."


Tutuu: "I claim that most people prefer to play town than they prefer to play mafia. I claim that most people are more relaxed when they play as town, and are more stressed when they play mafia. I claim that since Alison has willingly put so much stress on herself already, it would mean it's more likely that she is town, because if my statements are true, it would mean that she most likely wouldn't endure it as scum"

Tony: "I agree with you that playing as the Mafia alignment is a chore. Alison willingly did some chores. Therefore, Alison is Mafia"

[TonyStarkPrime]

Tutuu I’m not really around right now but I do want to try to engage with you on this. Look at eod 1. Nutella’s made up her mind to shoot Mac. I tell her not to, repeatedly. I start working up a defense of Mac. I point her to Soneji. Soneji gets shot by a laser.
Why would I do this as an alien?
Is it like exactly me/Mac/Alison? Trying to move to a less active partner and get some cred? I mean maybe. But that’s a very unlikely world.

[tutuu]

Alright

[TonyStarkPrime]

We need a definition of straw man here.

"an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."


Tutuu: "I claim that most people prefer to play town than they prefer to play mafia. I claim that most people are more relaxed when they play as town, and are more stressed when they play mafia. I claim that since Alison has willingly put so much stress on herself already, it would mean it's more likely that she is town, because if my statements are true, it would mean that she most likely wouldn't endure it as scum"

Tony: "I agree with you that playing as the Mafia alignment is a chore. Alison willingly did some chores. Therefore, Alison is Mafia"

This is not the argument I am making. I have only said and only agree with one of the three sentences in my section — the middle one.

straw man: "an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."



But I don’t think you’re doing this because I don’t think it’s intentional. Just don’t accuse me of doing it either. I just don’t think your logic holds. I don’t think it’s more stressful to be scum and I don’t think Alison is particularly more likely to do the work as town or as scum for reasons of “stress” or what not.

[Alison]

Hmn okay I think protocultures is town.

Alison is still alien.

This is weird. Why bring me up? I wasn't involved in that conversation, I hadn't posted recently. I looked through your ISO to see if this was some progression of your read on me and noticed that in #634 you write "I feel like my reads haven't really changed and I'm not too sure what to think about that." In that very same post you interrogate me about my meta trawling of Dizzy and in #681 you say you directly feel that meta trawling, as well as my suspicion of Mac, were solid grounds to suspect me on. That doesn't jive with "my reads haven't changed, and I'm unsure how to feel about that" - it sounds to me like your read on me deepened greatly, and you feel sure and convicted of that.

In #1000 Mac asks you about your reads and you just go "still think Alison is alien". It's a very brief mention, but it also is phrased in such a way that it makes me think you hold basically the same views you had before. Did your opinion of me not develop at all in those hundreds of posts? For context, the portion of the thread where I meta trawl Dizzy and attack Mac was around #550. Are you really saying your opinion of someone you evidently consider to be your top (and only?) scumread has no changed for better or worse in 450 posts of content?

The progression of your read on me has felt extremely weird. You say the read on me has stayed mostly the same and that you're indecisive about it, then harshly attack me for the meta trawl and push on Mac. Then you completely stagnate your read for 450 posts, and then bring me up as a "oh by the way Alison is scum" completely out of the blue. Why haven't you been making more of an effort to push me hard and convince everyone I'm scum if you really scumread me that badly? Do you think "oh by the way Alison is scum" is likely to convince nutella to laser me if you really think I am scum? I don't understand any of your behavior regarding your stance on me tbh

[Long Con]

I see nothing towny from LC they can be the next shot. I feel like they haven't put in a lot of effort, my bad if I missed it. Less effort than Tony so I would shoot LC first based off principle.

That's fair, I guess. It won't get you an Alien though.

[dunya]

idk why you wouldn’t just take what i’m saying at face value given how well i know him. you aren’t wrong in the sense that if i was scum here i’d still tr and hard defend dizzy because doing anything less would out myself to him since he’d know i was bs-ing and would never not tr him when he is town. but you don’t know that.

uh, what now? you literally answered your own question. i said you're trying to pocket him. i think i know how to play mafia, so i don't need to know how you usually treat dizzy to make my own conclusions about what you could be doing in your posts. i make my own deductions based on your words and tone

you're approaching me in a very negative light despite never playing with me, or trying to tone read and understand why i am suspicious. if you expect to get an easy TR just cos dizzy told me you're town, that's not gonna happen with me tbh. ;p

[tutuu]

Well alright whatever, I will no longer scream for your death. I could be right or I could be wrong.

I don't understand the scumreads on LC. And I think rej's recent posts lean town.

Checked Rej and agree. I'll read LC again. Don't remember much, but I thought some of the early mechanics interactions were off iirc.

I do think that maybe we should kill Rej and LC before Tony. But like if Rej flips scum then I do think it looks bad on you.

W/e let's just move on

[Long Con]

Long Con
nutella
TonyStarkPrime
Hally
Epignosis
protocultures
tutuu
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Carotenoid
MacDougall
Alison
dunya
Rej
Dyslexicon

[Long Con]

Well alright whatever, I will no longer scream for your death. I could be right or I could be wrong.

I don't understand the scumreads on LC. And I think rej's recent posts lean town.

Checked Rej and agree. I'll read LC again. Don't remember much, but I thought some of the early mechanics interactions were off iirc.

I do think that maybe we should kill Rej and LC before Tony. But like if Rej flips scum then I do think it looks bad on you.

W/e let's just move on

Good thing you don't have a gun.

[dunya]

@dunya when you mentioned that you're bummed that I lost faith in you, I know that was obviously an adorable remark made in jest, but I can't stop thinking about it and I feel like a worthless person. I genuinely apologize. I know I shouldn't, I know that the emotion I'm feeling rn is completely irrational with every fibre of my brain, and that this was nowhere near your intent but I just can't help it. I'm really, really, really sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Please like me still (sorry)

hey, i don't want you feeling like that! you're awesome and i am enjoying your game presence more than ever! love u, even if you do suspect me.

[dunya]

I see nothing towny from LC they can be the next shot. I feel like they haven't put in a lot of effort, my bad if I missed it. Less effort than Tony so I would shoot LC first based off principle.

That's fair, I guess. It won't get you an Alien though.

oh yeah? getting flashbacks of ziggy when you literally said that as well and look what happened!

paging [mention]nutella[/mention] and [mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] to the convo ;p

[Alison]

Long Con
nutella
TonyStarkPrime
Hally
Epignosis
protocultures
tutuu
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Carotenoid
MacDougall
Alison
dunya
Rej
Dyslexicon

LC you are another person I can't "wavelength" with so talk to me. What is with your reads on dunya and dizzy? I checked your ISO, you said dunya should be shot really early on for disagreeing with your mech strategy, and then basically never engage her, question her, push her, talk to her or anything, but bring her up as someone you'd like to see shot alonside dizzy and rej. Same with dizzy. Null interactions early on, sudden dive into suspicion - "dizzy is the bad apple" (#991) without any preamble or explanation why you suddenly found dizzy suspicious or what is it about dizzy you found suspicious. And then suddenly dizzy is the number one person you want to see dead and at the very bottom of your reads list.

You spend like the majority of your time talking with MacDougall, who is nullish on your reads list, and Hally, who's town. Why have you spent like no time constructing a case on Dizzy/Dunya and explaining why they're scum and should be shot if you're so convinced they're Alien?

Your read on them is like caro's read on me, possibly even worse since caro actually constructed a case and explanation as to why she felt my actions were scummy