The Syndicate

MovingPictures07 wrote:One thing I know for sure: I have sucked this game. I am really at a loss. I guess I'll be not changing my vote just yet, but I would like to hear from others too. And I wonder where Boogs is? I totally forgot he was playing this game until BWT voted for him.

Yeah, I didn't notice him either. From the players list he's the only one I didn't know was playing.

BR, to pick your brain: What are your thoughts on the player list at the moment? Who do you have reads on and who do you not, and what are the reads you have?

MovingPictures07 wrote:BR, to pick your brain: What are your thoughts on the player list at the moment? Who do you have reads on and who do you not, and what are the reads you have?

I can't pick out any baddies. Even LC has me questioning myself now. Tink and Simon I don't know to read, they are playful.

I can never fully trust you and Dom. Last time I made the mistake of trusting you I got burned.

I believe Snow Dog and Made are good. I think Splints might be good, but I have nothing to back that up.

I am not opinionated on the rest.

Black Rock wrote:
Revenge? On me? I don't think that's what you really want.

BR, I'm just gonna lay a vote on ya...



But this may be the game we can finally trust each other..

Dom wrote:

Black Rock wrote:
Revenge? On me? I don't think that's what you really want.

BR, I'm just gonna lay a vote on ya...



But this may be the game we can finally trust each other..

That would be nice Not there yet I guess.

Black Rock wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:BR, to pick your brain: What are your thoughts on the player list at the moment? Who do you have reads on and who do you not, and what are the reads you have?

I can't pick out any baddies. Even LC has me questioning myself now. Tink and Simon I don't know to read, they are playful.

I can never fully trust you and Dom. Last time I made the mistake of trusting you I got burned.

I believe Snow Dog and Made are good. I think Splints might be good, but I have nothing to back that up.

I am not opinionated on the rest.

Yeah, I know what you mean. This has been a really tough game.

Well, I get that. I don't ask for your unconditional trust regardless.

Thanks for your thoughts there. I think I agree re: Snowy, Made, and, to a lesser degree, Splints, but haven't seen enough from her new incarnation yet.

Dom wrote:

Black Rock wrote:
Revenge? On me? I don't think that's what you really want.

BR, I'm just gonna lay a vote on ya...



But this may be the game we can finally trust each other..

Does this mean you feel less sure about Made now?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:BR, to pick your brain: What are your thoughts on the player list at the moment? Who do you have reads on and who do you not, and what are the reads you have?

I can't pick out any baddies. Even LC has me questioning myself now. Tink and Simon I don't know to read, they are playful.

I can never fully trust you and Dom. Last time I made the mistake of trusting you I got burned.

I believe Snow Dog and Made are good. I think Splints might be good, but I have nothing to back that up.

I am not opinionated on the rest.

Yeah, I know what you mean. This has been a really tough game.

Well, I get that. I don't ask for your unconditional trust regardless.

Thanks for your thoughts there. I think I agree re: Snowy, Made, and, to a lesser degree, Splints, but haven't seen enough from her new incarnation yet.

Dom wrote:

Black Rock wrote:
Revenge? On me? I don't think that's what you really want.

BR, I'm just gonna lay a vote on ya...



But this may be the game we can finally trust each other..

Does this mean you feel less sure about Made now?

I honestly feel like I can't see a way for Made to be civvie
But I also feel like there's one role I can peg him into... that would make him civvie
So I'm conflicted AF

No, that makes sense, thanks Dom.

What do you make of LC and MR?

Brain is mush atm, on field trip and had to take care of homework, and now it's 2 am.

Anyways, this is the first time i've considered MR all game, not because of a civvie read or anything of that sort, just hasn't been on my radar. Considering my love to wrong to lynch him, this is kinda pingy. I'll read arguments about him more thoroughly when I wake up at 7
because i don't remember if there were responses to this (Beside from Dom i think?) thoughts on this pseudo case against DF?

Made wrote: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 43#p101640

Also wait.....
@Ambray i think?

How is it the mafia thing to do to have a bunch of theories at once? I mean isn't tunnel vision kinda bad? I was just bring up everything I could think of in one post so it's fresh in the minds of those who read it.

ok.

Also, this doesn't mean much, but i'm gonna say it so someone can string my words in a funny way and get me lynched: I can't play mafia as anything but genuine when i'm tired, too easy to slip. so, i'm civvie or w/e :P

MovingPictures07 wrote:One thing I know for sure: I have sucked this game. I am really at a loss. I guess I'll be not changing my vote just yet, but I would like to hear from others too. And I wonder where Boogs is? I totally forgot he was playing this game until BWT voted for him.

He wants to be replaced.

Odd that he hasn't been replaced yet, if so. Hmmm.

Anyway, Snowy, what're you thinking?

I'm willing to trust Snow Dog and Made more than anyone else in the game right now. I do not think they're bad, I think the trust that Snow Dog has in Made comes from Civvie BTSC.

This is pretty much where I'm at with trust, from LEAST to MOST trusted:

MovingPictures07
Dom
Ambray
Tink
Mister Rearranger
Simon
Boogs
Black Rock
fingersplints
DFaraday
Made
Snow Dog
Long Con

In the middle, there could be some shuffling around, hard to read some of them.

What I don't understand, LC, is if your read of me being connected with Dom makes us both bad, why do you put me as less trusted than Dom?

Something smells fishy to me about this LC and Dom stuff. The way Dom has voted BR today seems off to me too, especially when he's been so focused on Made.

I think LC and Dom may both be baddie teammates, know that I'm civvie, so that when they get me lynched, then the connection to Dom will be cleared and LC will can just write off my actions as being suspicious and be surprised that I'm civ.

MovingPictures07 wrote:No, that makes sense, thanks Dom.

What do you make of LC and MR?

apparently it doesn't matter.

MovingPictures07 wrote:What I don't understand, LC, is if your read of me being connected with Dom makes us both bad, why do you put me as less trusted than Dom?

Something smells fishy to me about this LC and Dom stuff. The way Dom has voted BR today seems off to me too, especially when he's been so focused on Made.

I think LC and Dom may both be baddie teammates, know that I'm civvie, so that when they get me lynched, then the connection to Dom will be cleared and LC will can just write off my actions as being suspicious and be surprised that I'm civ.

r u kidding me

Black Rock wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:BR, to pick your brain: What are your thoughts on the player list at the moment? Who do you have reads on and who do you not, and what are the reads you have?

I can't pick out any baddies. Even LC has me questioning myself now. Tink and Simon I don't know to read, they are playful.

I can never fully trust you and Dom. Last time I made the mistake of trusting you I got burned.

I believe Snow Dog and Made are good. I think Splints might be good, but I have nothing to back that up.

I am not opinionated on the rest.

I feel so unopinionated on so many people this game it isn't even funny. I'm supposed to be on break and I find myself in too many games. Should be able to get myself back in this one more tonight I hope

Dom wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:No, that makes sense, thanks Dom.

What do you make of LC and MR?

apparently it doesn't matter.

MovingPictures07 wrote:What I don't understand, LC, is if your read of me being connected with Dom makes us both bad, why do you put me as less trusted than Dom?

Something smells fishy to me about this LC and Dom stuff. The way Dom has voted BR today seems off to me too, especially when he's been so focused on Made.

I think LC and Dom may both be baddie teammates, know that I'm civvie, so that when they get me lynched, then the connection to Dom will be cleared and LC will can just write off my actions as being suspicious and be surprised that I'm civ.

r u kidding me

What do you mean it doesn't matter? Of course it does.

I'm not kidding you. I don't necessarily believe that to be true, but it's a possibility. Why are you "revenge voting" BR on Day 6 of this game when clearly there's baddie hunting to be done? Your vote smells throwaway, and the fact that you aren't voting Made all of a sudden strikes me as equally odd.

fingersplints wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:BR, to pick your brain: What are your thoughts on the player list at the moment? Who do you have reads on and who do you not, and what are the reads you have?

I can't pick out any baddies. Even LC has me questioning myself now. Tink and Simon I don't know to read, they are playful.

I can never fully trust you and Dom. Last time I made the mistake of trusting you I got burned.

I believe Snow Dog and Made are good. I think Splints might be good, but I have nothing to back that up.

I am not opinionated on the rest.

I feel so unopinionated on so many people this game it isn't even funny. I'm supposed to be on break and I find myself in too many games. Should be able to get myself back in this one more tonight I hope

I would love to hear your thoughts because this game is totally throwing me for a loop and we CAN'T lynch another civvie today.

And the votes are currently spread out like crazy. Ugh.

Woah, that's odd, it appears I can't change my vote all of a sudden. Huh. Not even sure I want to, honestly... since I still think LC is bad, but I just now noticed that.

I really hate spread out votes. So I will vote for one of the ones already with a vote, but not sure who yet.

fingersplints wrote:I really hate spread out votes. So I will vote for one of the ones already with a vote, but not sure who yet.

Well, out of the players that have votes, I'd feel best about a vote for LC, then probably MR, but that's just me. Curious what you think when you get a chance to delve into it more.

I've had enough tunnel vision this game, but I'm finding it hard to abandon a suspicion of LC because I really don't like the way he was so noncommittal most of the game and has recently come up with a theory about me and Dom -- it just all reads insincere to me. I can't help but think that, even when doubting my read.

That said, I don't want to lead another civvie lynch, so if someone can convince me I'm wrong about LC and there's a better way to vote, I'm all ears. MR, DF, and Ambray I keep flipping on the possibility of them being bad. I really just can't read most of the players right now and it's frustrating.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:Why don't you think Made and Snow could be a group of civ BTSC? There's at least one possibility for that. Just curious.

I acknowledge the remote possibility that they could be. But here's where my thought process is taking me:

Scenario 1 - I play a game where I simply have a civ BTSC partner. Now will I put up a fight to save him or her? Of course, especially in a game where there has been only civ-lynching up to that point. But would I out myself and my partner so obviously in the risk that any baddie would figure out my role and take advantage of it's vanilla-ness? That, to me, seems like it could cause more harm than good.

Scenario 2 - I play a game where I'm part of a baddie team and we've lost 1 or 2 members from opposing factions' NKs (the longer this game goes on, the more I hypothesize that this was the case with Llama, possibly Splints, but more likely Llama. Maybe both?). The desperation to save a chat-mate would feel much more pressing in that circumstance, I believe. And you can run the risk too, when one of you has a Seemer role.

As a habit, I really dislike voting on game theory; and that's why I've been considering, but not outright and aggressively pursuing them as lynch targets. Hedge's lynch has made me feel like putting my foot to the pedal though.


I was confused about Simon's vote first, forgetting there was even a character named "Professor Z" in the game (I've never seen a Cars film, in case you can't tell ). He hit Llama with this accusation too on D1, I see. So either he's messing around, or perhaps his vote was forced? It wasn't too long ago (Zelda or possibly the game before that) that I was targeted with a forced vote and decided to just make a throwaway post tied to it. Or, he's bad, as he certainly fits in with the Hedge situation before. I want to revisit that too, since LC and Simon are the other 2 folks who questioned her after her post (Made was the third). I've yet to feel warmer about anyone in that group of 3 after Hedge's lynch. I probably made a critical error not pursuing one of them first and trying to wait for Hedge to respond instead. Didn't expect others to jump on that lynch.

EBWOP: Let's try that out, Epi. I'll put my vote on Made now, but will be around as much as possible to hear all sides to this before the poll closes.

Dom wrote: I honestly feel like I can't see a way for Made to be civvie
But I also feel like there's one role I can peg him into... that would make him civvie
So I'm conflicted AF

I could have summed things up a lot quicker by saying this too.

Fair enough, MR.

However, if you've yet to feel warmer about LC, Simon, and Made, yet you recognize a possibility for Scenario 1, why are you voting Made and not LC or Simon?

Besides, the risk involved in Made and Snowy being civvie BTSCmates but vouching for each other is not necessarily a large enough cost to outweigh the benefit of doing so.

1) Made has been a hot lynch topic for some time, and Snowy only got really aggressive with his vouching when Made was about to be lynched.
2) Note that the baddies might benefit to NOT NKing these two because generally civ BTSC groups don't have any other non-BTSC power (so what harm are they really?)
3) In addition, in a game with a Seemer, as you said, it might additionally benefit the baddies to NOT NK either of them because their vouching always raises the question of Scenario 2. Why NK them when Made can be lynched at any time, especially when we've had 5 straight civvie lynches? Leaves open an "easy" option to fall back on to lynch another civvie, then NK the other one the subsequent night.

I believe Scenario 1 is much more likely re: Snowy and Made, honestly.

In fact, MR, you've voted for Snow Dog or Made nearly every lynch, and when you haven't, you just bandwagoned (FZ. and Blooper, for example).

Oops, typo. I meant MR bandwagoned onto FZ. and Rox. He did not bandwagon onto Blooper D1 (he voted for Snowy then).

Honestly, I may vote for Ambray or MR instead of LC. Both of them have practically bandwagoned or voted Snowy/Made every lynch. Not sure yet. Need to hear what others think.

I'd rather lynch LC though, I think. Sorry for the so many multiple posts.

I need to go work more on studying, so I'll be around sometime later in the evening.

It's a tough one. Been going back and for on LC. If he's bad he must be chick imo.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Fair enough, MR.

However, if you've yet to feel warmer about LC, Simon, and Made, yet you recognize a possibility for Scenario 1, why are you voting Made and not LC or Simon?

Probably because Made is the focus of both of those discussion topics. And consider what I just posted about my VERY changeable vote.

Simon, as I discussed, has been an enigma as I read him. He's jokey, cavalier, and unorthodox. My only brow crick is that he started the roll of questions against Hedge.

With LC: I will admit, I've been procrastinating on my read-through of him this week, just due to my own schedule. No excuse for that. My thoughts on him before that were coupled with a notion that he and Roxy might have had something scheming. I certainly lost some confidence in pursuing him after Roxy flipped civ.

My cold read on him has been defensive, not aggressive. I get the air of vagueness in his rhetoric too, which I think you or someone pointed out earlier in the thread. There's a lot of text to read in your back & forth with him too, ugh.

I will agree with him that you've been very "blinders on" this game, which I don't think is a baddie or civvie thing.


linki: I've never voted for Made. Snow, yes. And I've been vocal about why I've wavered on and off of him from Day 1.

MovingPictures07 wrote: 1) Made has been a hot lynch topic for some time, and Snowy only got really aggressive with his vouching when Made was about to be lynched.

Never disagreed with that. Still, I would never out myself and leave that opening of confirming 2 vanilla civs to the baddies instead of just 1.

2) Note that the baddies might benefit to NOT NKing these two because generally civ BTSC groups don't have any other non-BTSC power (so what harm are they really?)

If I didn't post this, I apologize, because I was thinking just that. And I think that helps a baddie team even more, when they know who they can keep around because they pose no threat. But again, my personal take on game theory.

3) In addition, in a game with a Seemer, as you said, it might additionally benefit the baddies to NOT NK either of them because their vouching always raises the question of Scenario 2. Why NK them when Made can be lynched at any time, especially when we've had 5 straight civvie lynches? Leaves open an "easy" option to fall back on to lynch another civvie, then NK the other one the subsequent night.

I believe Scenario 1 is much more likely re: Snowy and Made, honestly.

Yeah, it baffles me that neither was killed, but then again, your thought makes sense. But, that really is a flip of the coin in my mind. :/

Mister Rearranger wrote: the risk that any baddie would figure out my role and take advantage of it's vanilla-ness? That, to me, seems like it could cause more harm than good.

To be fair, mafia already know who all the civvies are.

LC, why do you trust DF?

Just popping in for a second. Thanks for the replies, MR. It's tough. I suppose Scenario 2 is a possibility... IDK. I just feel 1 is more likely.

And you're right, that's EXACTLY the term I've been looking for regarding LC. Vagueness.

Snow Dog wrote:It's a tough one. Been going back and for on LC. If he's bad he must be chick imo.

Wait... what?

BR said this same thing and explained it was just a "feeling".

Why do you say this?

How could any civvie have narrowed down someone's role like that?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Just popping in for a second. Thanks for the replies, MR. It's tough. I suppose Scenario 2 is a possibility... IDK. I just feel 1 is more likely.

And you're right, that's EXACTLY the term I've been looking for regarding LC. Vagueness.

Snow Dog wrote:It's a tough one. Been going back and for on LC. If he's bad he must be chick imo.

Wait... what?

BR said this same thing and explained it was just a "feeling".

Why do you say this?

Well it's as I already explained. If he was part of a team his final vote on Bass males no sense.

Especially since I'm not Chick.

As with Snow Dog and Made (I trust them equally, for obvious reasons), I mistrust you and Dom equally as well. I just thought you'd get a kick out of being at the top of the list.

As for DFaraday, I just trust him. I have my reasons. Unless you're going to try and lynch him, I won't go into more details.

Going to see where this spread-out vote stands, and decide where mine will go.

Ok LC. I think I will trust you.

Two votes on Made so far.

ebwop

You trust DF, LC? I wasn't sure. I might have put my vote there. Ok, duly noted.

Ugh, I don't really like the options I'm seeing here. Votes are changeable, and I will vote to save the people I trust, but for now I'm voting for MP07.

And I really urge any undecided people to go along with that vote if they want to get a non-Civvie today.

Linki: Yeah, I do. DF is cool in my books.

Long Con wrote:Ugh, I don't really like the options I'm seeing here. Votes are changeable, and I will vote to save the people I trust, but for now I'm voting for MP07.

And I really urge any undecided people to go along with that vote if they want to get a non-Civvie today.

Linki: Yeah, I do. DF is cool in my books.

I am by no means near convinced MP is mafia.

I do think it's possible that Made an Snowy are pulling WIFOM, knowing that such heavy vouching will lead people to doubt them. Also, if Made is the Seemer, he could always come back civvie, I suppose. But I feel that lynching him would give us the most answers at this point, and as I don't have time to stick around for the end of the lynch, I am voting him.

DFaraday wrote:I do think it's possible that Made an Snowy are pulling WIFOM, knowing that such heavy vouching will lead people to doubt them. Also, if Made is the Seemer, he could always come back civvie, I suppose. But I feel that lynching him would give us the most answers at this point, and as I don't have time to stick around for the end of the lynch, I am voting him.

So when Made flips civ I'll be next anyway because Made is the seemer? Right.

I don't like that vote either.

Anyone consider that Ambray and DF may be teammates? Ambray's actions have been: (1) Blooper vote, (2) following me on FZ. and Bass, and then... not much else, until saying she suspects DF. Then she elaborates but finds Made more suspicious.

DF has continually voted Made over and over, and I disagree with him that a Made lynch "gives us the most answers".

It's possible Ambray and DF are both baddies hiding behind bandwagony behavior and that Ambray pulled some distancing.

And how could a Made lynch give us the most answers if DF is speculating he could very well flip Seemer anyway. We wouldn't know anything until we THEN lynch Snowy, right? Thereby wasting two lynches if they ARE telling the truth?

That last reasoning from DF got me. I was thinking maybe he was civ. Now I doubt it.

Interestingly, if you look over DF's posts, you'll notice he agreed with her on Blooper D1, and that he voted for Llama D2 because of Llama's odd vote for Ambray. He also doesn't really talk about Ambray, ever.