GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[ilario]

I think all the trolly people are >rand town

Sloonei
Ender etc

7 scum feels very little and I think they’d be trying harder to be blending in and looking solvey, doing stuff a traditional town is expected to do etc

In my experience in massive games with scum teams that have a large absolute size but a small relative size, the scum team tends to slank. The game is big; it's hard to keep up with the game, and hard to keep up the pretense of being town over so many pages. A lot of their power is reliant on their role use, not their thread domination. They most likely have a couple of hardworking teammates who will do the thread control job for them. (Kind of like how group projects always have a couple of people do all the work while everyone else sits on their ass.) The whole "bastard role madness" thing promotes a more casual, "I don't care if I win, I'm just here to goof around and have fun" vibe.

Sources: 2020 Hydra Mash, Shadow Corridors, 2020 GOC

I do agree in the essence that the scum team does tend to slank in mashes and larger games. And that the people who are high posting and high efforting to solve and driving the thread tend to be town. I don’t really classify what ender and sloonei are doing as traditional slanky mash scum archetype however.

[EnderWiggin]

I think all the trolly people are >rand town

Sloonei
Ender etc

7 scum feels very little and I think they’d be trying harder to be blending in and looking solvey, doing stuff a traditional town is expected to do etc

I think for a large number of players, 7 scum will feel like a ton. Like sure, numbers wise it is not, but I have never wolfed with 6 other people before.

I have, you just bus the people that catch heat early on and then chill. Which is my way of saying you shouldn’t clear someone for getting a pelt if they’re not objectively towny or have other things in their favour too

That's a good point. However, mine might be as well. Your original assessment might apply to players like you, but I'd guess at least half, and probably more than half of the players in this game are like me and have not wolfed with 7 people, so they probably feel like they have a lot of wolf mates in thread. As such, I don't think you can discount scummy play just because people more experienced with these larger games would be tryharding.

Granted, I'm not sure about people like Sloonei and Ender, would not be surprised if they have wolfed in big-ish games like this before. Still think Ender's vibe does not match their posts though.

I used to wolf in games with 40ish players and 10 player wolf teams.

I also used to town in those games too.

[Alison]

Very unique perspective to the game. Completely wild
Reads list like these are pretty towny this early on because mafia don’t wanna commit to too many wtf reads and then risky getting outed when they’re asked to justify them but have nothing to say.
Also there has never been a single game where I’ve been town and tr’ing Alexa and the first person to wolfread us both is scum. It’s always a townie who does that, who is overeager in trying to catch us. Now that this read is out of the bag I will never give anyone else towncred for it in the future.

If Ender is scum he is clearly lolcatting scum who isn't taking the game too seriously and is just goofing around and having fun trolling us. So I think he is more than capable of producing a "wild" reads list either way.

I'll take the second point into consideration.

[Alison]

That Dizzy read from Ender seems out of place. Dizzy basically said hi and left for the night.
Neeko didn't even realize Dizzy posted until Ender scum read them.
Everything else is a maybe understandable, but Dizzy said like 5 posts.

Dizzy slanking until pressure is put on him is kinda rand!scum for him tho.

Welcome to my latest episode of "Bad Meta-cine."

Dizzy slanked until pressure was put on him in the last couple of games I played with him, and he was town. In fact, I believed he slanked all the way to endgame in last year's GOC, whereupon he promptly caught the last few evildoers, was ignored by the thread, and lost. Poor Dizzy.

[EnderWiggin]

Very unique perspective to the game. Completely wild
Reads list like these are pretty towny this early on because mafia don’t wanna commit to too many wtf reads and then risky getting outed when they’re asked to justify them but have nothing to say.
Also there has never been a single game where I’ve been town and tr’ing Alexa and the first person to wolfread us both is scum. It’s always a townie who does that, who is overeager in trying to catch us. Now that this read is out of the bag I will never give anyone else towncred for it in the future.

If Ender is scum he is clearly lolcatting scum who isn't taking the game too seriously and is just goofing around and having fun trolling us. So I think he is more than capable of producing a "wild" reads list either way.

I'll take the second point into consideration.

I'll happily admit that I am not taking this game too seriously.

[LinearPoint]

But would Wolf!Ender stop lolcatting and post a large reads list risking spewing a bunch of players?

[LinearPoint]

Neeko doesn't really think so.

[Seanzie]

Remember when I was like "Creature has spent all these posts being useless, let's vote him out", and everyone was like "noooo you can't Creature is useless every game!"

Now Ender is useless. And he is a solving machine when he is townie. Do the math.

The funny part is where you've been wolf with me and I've acted my solving out.

I'm not going to lie, though, my effort this game has been very low and mostly for trolling. I'm not even mad if y'all vote me.

Just pay attention to my reads aye?

Reads such as?

You town.

Alexa kinda wolfy.

Linear .4 wolfy.

Pao wolfy if Alexa is town.

Mac town.

Alison not knowing how to read people having fun.

HK town.

Seanzie in a "IDK" land

ilario kinda scummy. Also kinda towny tho.

Dizzy wolfy (I didn't say this but I thought it.)

Marmot scummy.

Sabie town.

TSP wolfish.

lol this is towny even if i disagree with alot of it

What is townie about it?

Very unique perspective to the game. Completely wild
Reads list like these are pretty towny this early on because mafia don’t wanna commit to too many wtf reads and then risky getting outed when they’re asked to justify them but have nothing to say.
Also there has never been a single game where I’ve been town and tr’ing Alexa and the first person to wolfread us both is scum. It’s always a townie who does that, who is overeager in trying to catch us. Now that this read is out of the bag I will never give anyone else towncred for it in the future.

Which takes are unique?

And given Ender's behavior lately, if you ask him a question he doesn't have a good answer to, how do you think he'd respond?

Would you classify Ender's read on you here as a wolf-read? I'd classify it as hedge.

[Seanzie]

But would Wolf!Ender stop lolcatting and post a large reads list risking spewing a bunch of players?

Reads lists without reasons don't spew people.

If wolf!Ender flipped right now, who on that list is town and who is scum?

[Alison]

But would Wolf!Ender stop lolcatting and post a large reads list risking spewing a bunch of players?

I think you would only try to extract spew from that reads list if you were extremely confident or extremely foolhardy.

If Ender is wolf, at that point he is well aware that he is in imminent danger, and he clearly does not intend to post his way out of it through effort. So he is almost certainly going to ensure the readslist is protected against spew analysis. It is also, at heart, a list of names coupled with alignments without much explanation. It's not particularly easy to get useful information from that.

[EnderWiggin]

The funny part is where you've been wolf with me and I've acted my solving out.

I'm not going to lie, though, my effort this game has been very low and mostly for trolling. I'm not even mad if y'all vote me.

Just pay attention to my reads aye?

Reads such as?

You town.

Alexa kinda wolfy.

Linear .4 wolfy.

Pao wolfy if Alexa is town.

Mac town.

Alison not knowing how to read people having fun.

HK town.

Seanzie in a "IDK" land

ilario kinda scummy. Also kinda towny tho.

Dizzy wolfy (I didn't say this but I thought it.)

Marmot scummy.

Sabie town.

TSP wolfish.

lol this is towny even if i disagree with alot of it

What is townie about it?

Very unique perspective to the game. Completely wild
Reads list like these are pretty towny this early on because mafia don’t wanna commit to too many wtf reads and then risky getting outed when they’re asked to justify them but have nothing to say.
Also there has never been a single game where I’ve been town and tr’ing Alexa and the first person to wolfread us both is scum. It’s always a townie who does that, who is overeager in trying to catch us. Now that this read is out of the bag I will never give anyone else towncred for it in the future.

Which takes are unique?

And given Ender's behavior lately, if you ask him a question he doesn't have a good answer to, how do you think he'd respond?

Would you classify Ender's read on you here as a wolf-read? I'd classify it as hedge.

It's actually a shrubbery, not a hedge.

[Master Radishes]

Dear wolves,

Let’s make this clear so you don’t waste your time: I will not be one of your miselims this game.

You will soon think I could be, of course. Even with the postcap I will likely not be able to keep up with the tryhards on this roster, and I will inevitably be perceived as low-hanging fruit. ‘Marmot will be an easy chop’ you’ll think. ‘Probably a flash wagon candidate.’

But you will be mistaken. You simply won’t be able to mis-elim me. Not this time. I will pull out the WIM when I need to. I have tricks up my sleeves. In fact, save me the energy and just treat this post as an inno child claim. I am for all your intents and purposes untouchable. If you decide you want me out of this game, you will need to spend a kill on me.

It is not your fault you randed wolf, and I am nothing if not sympathetic to an unfortunate rand, so I give you this warning now to help you plan around it. Everyone deserves a fair shot.

In the words of Descartes, ‘I post therefore I am town’. Or, in the words of a more modern philosopher, ‘U Kant touch this’.

Good luck, wolves. Just don’t say I didn’t warn you.

No don't this just gets you vigged instead.

[Seanzie]

Reads such as?

You town.

Alexa kinda wolfy.

Linear .4 wolfy.

Pao wolfy if Alexa is town.

Mac town.

Alison not knowing how to read people having fun.

HK town.

Seanzie in a "IDK" land

ilario kinda scummy. Also kinda towny tho.

Dizzy wolfy (I didn't say this but I thought it.)

Marmot scummy.

Sabie town.

TSP wolfish.

lol this is towny even if i disagree with alot of it

What is townie about it?

Very unique perspective to the game. Completely wild
Reads list like these are pretty towny this early on because mafia don’t wanna commit to too many wtf reads and then risky getting outed when they’re asked to justify them but have nothing to say.
Also there has never been a single game where I’ve been town and tr’ing Alexa and the first person to wolfread us both is scum. It’s always a townie who does that, who is overeager in trying to catch us. Now that this read is out of the bag I will never give anyone else towncred for it in the future.

Which takes are unique?

And given Ender's behavior lately, if you ask him a question he doesn't have a good answer to, how do you think he'd respond?

Would you classify Ender's read on you here as a wolf-read? I'd classify it as hedge.

It's actually a shrubbery, not a hedge.

GTH Ilario please. Town or scum?

[Master Radishes]

I tried catching up but there's too much.

Someone round up the headlines for me.

[ilario]

The funny part is where you've been wolf with me and I've acted my solving out.

I'm not going to lie, though, my effort this game has been very low and mostly for trolling. I'm not even mad if y'all vote me.

Just pay attention to my reads aye?

Reads such as?

You town.

Alexa kinda wolfy.

Linear .4 wolfy.

Pao wolfy if Alexa is town.

Mac town.

Alison not knowing how to read people having fun.

HK town.

Seanzie in a "IDK" land

ilario kinda scummy. Also kinda towny tho.

Dizzy wolfy (I didn't say this but I thought it.)

Marmot scummy.

Sabie town.

TSP wolfish.

lol this is towny even if i disagree with alot of it

What is townie about it?

Very unique perspective to the game. Completely wild
Reads list like these are pretty towny this early on because mafia don’t wanna commit to too many wtf reads and then risky getting outed when they’re asked to justify them but have nothing to say.
Also there has never been a single game where I’ve been town and tr’ing Alexa and the first person to wolfread us both is scum. It’s always a townie who does that, who is overeager in trying to catch us. Now that this read is out of the bag I will never give anyone else towncred for it in the future.

Which takes are unique?

And given Ender's behavior lately, if you ask him a question he doesn't have a good answer to, how do you think he'd respond?

Would you classify Ender's read on you here as a wolf-read? I'd classify it as hedge.

I think his takes on alexa dizzy sabie tsp myself are relatively unique.

Not sure how to answer the part in green tbh

Yellow part yeah I agree is a hedge but I think his hesitance on me makes sense given I just played with him as a wolf. I think I’ve been towny but I can also see why he would be more hyper aware of me after last game

[Master Radishes]

@112 @falcon45ca @KZA

What we thinking?

Bruh

[Master Radishes]

Btw when I asked at the beginning of the game to name the top Syndicate wolf of 2021 without checking,


it's BoKnows.

[Master Radishes]

@KZA @BoKnows @falcon45ca @Master Radishes

okay, since we're drafting:
do we take daigle, pronger or gratton?

Whoever has most meat and potatoes.

[EnderWiggin]

You town.

Alexa kinda wolfy.

Linear .4 wolfy.

Pao wolfy if Alexa is town.

Mac town.

Alison not knowing how to read people having fun.

HK town.

Seanzie in a "IDK" land

ilario kinda scummy. Also kinda towny tho.

Dizzy wolfy (I didn't say this but I thought it.)

Marmot scummy.

Sabie town.

TSP wolfish.

lol this is towny even if i disagree with alot of it

What is townie about it?

Very unique perspective to the game. Completely wild
Reads list like these are pretty towny this early on because mafia don’t wanna commit to too many wtf reads and then risky getting outed when they’re asked to justify them but have nothing to say.
Also there has never been a single game where I’ve been town and tr’ing Alexa and the first person to wolfread us both is scum. It’s always a townie who does that, who is overeager in trying to catch us. Now that this read is out of the bag I will never give anyone else towncred for it in the future.

Which takes are unique?

And given Ender's behavior lately, if you ask him a question he doesn't have a good answer to, how do you think he'd respond?

Would you classify Ender's read on you here as a wolf-read? I'd classify it as hedge.

It's actually a shrubbery, not a hedge.

GTH Ilario please. Town or scum?

Scum. Because he has a habit of defending me when I get flack as scum and I had a sorta scumread on him earlier.

[ilario]

Ender I correctly read you as town when I’m town too lol

[ilario]

That’s actually why I defend you as a wolf cos I know I would do the same as town

[EnderWiggin]

Ender I correctly read you as town when I’m town too lol

Yes, but I only remember you playing hard-defense as scum.

Okay that was one game and it's a bit of an exaggeration, but he asked me to GTH.

[Alison]

I tried catching up but there's too much.

Someone round up the headlines for me.

Alexa has information about nutella's role, and said it was scummy. nutella responded that roles are not indicative of alignment. The two had a brief spat before settling their differences and townreading each other. People have interpreted that fight differently; views include Alexa town nutella scum, Alexa/nutella wolves together, and Alexa town nutella town. Nobody has suggested Alexa scum nutella town so far. My view is that it's T/T.

Guillo claims to have an ability to kill someone during the day. He offered to use it on nutella, but Alexa told him to hold off, which made him suspicious of her.

I cased Creature for being useless. Some people agree with me. Others don't, and say that he is useless every game.

Paopan said he'd draft Alexa if he was the scum captain; Alexa took this to be a scumslip, since Paopan had not really played with her and wouldn't know she was a good player unless he was told in scum chat. Most people have not found this argument convincing, except Guillo, who voted with Alexa. Mac thinks that is a total bullshit case, and seems to be suspicious of Alexa.

In the meantime, Urist has claimed that LinearPoint, also known as Neeko for the League of Legends character they are roleplaying, scumslipped, and then vanished before explaining it. LinearPoint proposed a theory that nutella/Alexa were wolves together. This received severe backlash, because the theory was devoid of logic. As a result, LinearPoint received strong pressure from nutella, Alexa, and later myself and Mac. Needless to say, they have become a top contention for this day's vote. I have since softened my read slightly on LP to "mixed bag". Mac is convinced that LP is outed scum.

Ender has been posting in a manner that could best be described as "lolcatty" or "RVS-y". This has earned him the ire of a few people, including Seanzie, nutella and myself.

Those are the main points.

[Alison]

I'm heading to bed. Good night.

[EnderWiggin]

Oh wait actually I forgot the Alexa role thing.

She's town.

[ilario]

I’m not even playing hard defense rn, hypothetically if u were to sprout at as the top wagon I wouldn’t even defrnd stop it rn because I’m curious to see if my read in you is correct and the fastest way to do that is with a flip

[Seanzie]

I tried catching up but there's too much.

Someone round up the headlines for me.

Alexa has information about nutella's role, and said it was scummy. nutella responded that roles are not indicative of alignment. The two had a brief spat before settling their differences and townreading each other. People have interpreted that fight differently; views include Alexa town nutella scum, Alexa/nutella wolves together, and Alexa town nutella town. Nobody has suggested Alexa scum nutella town so far. My view is that it's T/T.

Guillo claims to have an ability to kill someone during the day. He offered to use it on nutella, but Alexa told him to hold off, which made him suspicious of her.

I cased Creature for being useless. Some people agree with me. Others don't, and say that he is useless every game.

Paopan said he'd draft Alexa if he was the scum captain; Alexa took this to be a scumslip, since Paopan had not really played with her and wouldn't know she was a good player unless he was told in scum chat. Most people have not found this argument convincing, except Guillo, who voted with Alexa. Mac thinks that is a total bullshit case, and seems to be suspicious of Alexa.

In the meantime, Urist has claimed that LinearPoint, also known as Neeko for the League of Legends character they are roleplaying, scumslipped, and then vanished before explaining it. LinearPoint proposed a theory that nutella/Alexa were wolves together. This received severe backlash, because the theory was devoid of logic. As a result, LinearPoint received strong pressure from nutella, Alexa, and later myself and Mac. Needless to say, they have become a top contention for this day's vote. I have since softened my read slightly on LP to "mixed bag". Mac is convinced that LP is outed scum.

Ender has been posting in a manner that could best be described as "lolcatty" or "RVS-y". This has earned him the ire of a few people, including Seanzie, nutella and myself.

Those are the main points.

Why is your vote not on Ender? I thought you voted ITT.

[Master Radishes]

Thanks Alison.

I'd actually come across most of that before I gave up reading. Makes me think the most recent pages are not worth reading (which makes sense because D1 mid-round sucks).

[Alison]

I tried catching up but there's too much.

Someone round up the headlines for me.

Alexa has information about nutella's role, and said it was scummy. nutella responded that roles are not indicative of alignment. The two had a brief spat before settling their differences and townreading each other. People have interpreted that fight differently; views include Alexa town nutella scum, Alexa/nutella wolves together, and Alexa town nutella town. Nobody has suggested Alexa scum nutella town so far. My view is that it's T/T.

Guillo claims to have an ability to kill someone during the day. He offered to use it on nutella, but Alexa told him to hold off, which made him suspicious of her.

I cased Creature for being useless. Some people agree with me. Others don't, and say that he is useless every game.

Paopan said he'd draft Alexa if he was the scum captain; Alexa took this to be a scumslip, since Paopan had not really played with her and wouldn't know she was a good player unless he was told in scum chat. Most people have not found this argument convincing, except Guillo, who voted with Alexa. Mac thinks that is a total bullshit case, and seems to be suspicious of Alexa.

In the meantime, Urist has claimed that LinearPoint, also known as Neeko for the League of Legends character they are roleplaying, scumslipped, and then vanished before explaining it. LinearPoint proposed a theory that nutella/Alexa were wolves together. This received severe backlash, because the theory was devoid of logic. As a result, LinearPoint received strong pressure from nutella, Alexa, and later myself and Mac. Needless to say, they have become a top contention for this day's vote. I have since softened my read slightly on LP to "mixed bag". Mac is convinced that LP is outed scum.

Ender has been posting in a manner that could best be described as "lolcatty" or "RVS-y". This has earned him the ire of a few people, including Seanzie, nutella and myself.

Those are the main points.

Why is your vote not on Ender? I thought you voted ITT.

I forgot to update the poll, sorry. I'm on Ender now.

[Master Radishes]

I'm normally reluctant to give meta reads on CDCers, but 112 is likely just town here.

[Master Radishes]

@112 how you feel about that homie

[LinearPoint]

Neeko really needs to stop refreshing and just sleep since apparently Neeko is too tired to make any logical reads according to everyone.

[nutella]

That Dizzy read from Ender seems out of place. Dizzy basically said hi and left for the night.
Neeko didn't even realize Dizzy posted until Ender scum read them.
Everything else is a maybe understandable, but Dizzy said like 5 posts.

Yeah seems unnatural

[EnderWiggin]

Neeko really needs to stop refreshing and just sleep since apparently Neeko is too tired to make any logical reads according to everyone.

This is back up to .5

[EnderWiggin]

That Dizzy read from Ender seems out of place. Dizzy basically said hi and left for the night.
Neeko didn't even realize Dizzy posted until Ender scum read them.
Everything else is a maybe understandable, but Dizzy said like 5 posts.

Yeah seems unnatural

You should vote me too.

[nutella]

That Dizzy read from Ender seems out of place. Dizzy basically said hi and left for the night.
Neeko didn't even realize Dizzy posted until Ender scum read them.
Everything else is a maybe understandable, but Dizzy said like 5 posts.

Dizzy slanking until pressure is put on him is kinda rand!scum for him tho.

Welcome to my latest episode of "Bad Meta-cine."

I don't disagree just weird the read was still on your mind ig

[112]

@112 how you feel about that homie

It is the correct take. Unfortunately it doesn't reciprocate too well and help me read you--but I'll still consider it a slight town+ for now because I feel you'd be more hedgey about it if you were wolfing.

[nutella]

But would Wolf!Ender stop lolcatting and post a large reads list risking spewing a bunch of players?

Eh. The majority of the reads were fairly easy and/or hedgy. But I can see this point.

[Justplayingitcool]

hey please answer this - have you played with Paopan before?

this is for everyone

I need an answer

@112
@Alison
@Belzy
@BoKnows
@c4e5g3d5
@DrWilgy
@dyachei
@Dyslexicon
@EnderWiggin
@falcon45ca
@Guillotine
@hollowkatt
@ilario
@Justplayingitcool
@KZA
@LinearPoint
@Marmot
@Master Radishes
@NotAnAxehole
@nutella
@Phil and Gloria
@Porscha
@sabie12
@Seanzie
@sig
@Sloonei
@TonyStarkPrime
@Urist

THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND MAY 100% NAIL A SCUM, PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU'VE PLAYED WITH PAOPAN BEFORE

No

[Justplayingitcool]

Waking up to 30 pages. Nice

[Master Radishes]

@112 how you feel about that homie

It is the correct take. Unfortunately it doesn't reciprocate too well and help me read you--but I'll still consider it a slight town+ for now because I feel you'd be more hedgey about it if you were wolfing.

You lose a town point for not asking me why I've reached my conclusion, and don't bother asking now I won't tell you.

[Master Radishes]

You also lose another town point for forcing a reciprocated read on me.


(Your point total is still in the black though.)

[Master Radishes]

Waking up to 30 pages. Nice

This is why I stayed up late, so that I'd only wake up to 25 pages.

[Justplayingitcool]

Oh hi radishes

I have determined to read both you and c4’s iso because i think i can read you both decently well

Probably will check marmot’s iso if he is playing as well

[112]

You also lose another town point for forcing a reciprocated read on me.


(Your point total is still in the black though.)

Fine by me. >:(

[Master Radishes]

Oh hi radishes

I have determined to read both you and c4’s iso because i think i can read you both decently well

Probably will check marmot’s iso if he is playing as well

Don't bother. I just copypasta'd.

[112]

[Justplayingitcool]

Oh hi radishes

I have determined to read both you and c4’s iso because i think i can read you both decently well

Probably will check marmot’s iso if he is playing as well

Don't bother. I just copypasta'd.

I'll still read it anyway. Who's the mafia Radishes?

Also, Im going to kill the gambit demon

[Master Radishes]

Mafia

1. JPIC

[Justplayingitcool]

I want to kill marmot just for this post

Is there a red on nutella too? I really did miss a lot.