The Syndicate

I hope for your sake that you're all prepared to feel like a right bunch of nitwits.

Its gonna be hard for me to participate in these remaining hours. I'm quite busy right now so EoD activity is a no go from my side.

My reads right now still have LC as scum but it's not as strong as before. Leetic has creeped up in my scum reads, but it's not very strong either. My reasons don't felt good enough to support a vote on him and I have had a couple mindmelds with him. His defense against my recent accusations were just as well.

Speedchuck is probably my strongest scum read atm doubt that's not saying much as it's still kinda weak, just barely above the other two. I don't think I'll be voting anybody for this phase.

My town reads, on the other hand, are quite strong. max, Sloonei, and FG are the highest; all three equal with each other. Turnip Head, TS, Ted, and Epi follow behind.

Radish and TSP are my remaining null reads.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:56 pm Its gonna be hard for me to participate in these remaining hours. I'm quite busy right now so EoD activity is a no go from my side.

My reads right now still have LC as scum but it's not as strong as before. Leetic has creeped up in my scum reads, but it's not very strong either. My reasons don't felt good enough to support a vote on him and I have had a couple mindmelds with him. His defense against my recent accusations were just as well.

Speedchuck is probably my strongest scum read atm doubt that's not saying much as it's still kinda weak, just barely above the other two. I don't think I'll be voting anybody for this phase.

My town reads, on the other hand, are quite strong. max, Sloonei, and FG are the highest; all three equal with each other. Turnip Head, TS, Ted, and Epi follow behind.

Radish and TSP are my remaining null reads.

You've got this nailed down to a POE of 5 on D1 and you aren't comfortable voting?

Hope JJJ will show up to save the day, but if he's scum we're screwed. Oh well

I've heard the case on leetic, even though I don't put much stock in it.

What's the supposed case on Ted? He's one of my stronger townreads.

We’re close enough to the deadline now that we can start positioning ourselves for a hammer.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:00 pm What's the supposed case on Ted? He's one of my stronger townreads.

Beats me; I've always thought he's town.

Sloonei, you sure Drago is your strongest town read...?

But I still have more things to say. The perfectionist in me wants to lay out my case for leetic in full, among other things.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:02 pm Sloonei, you sure Drago is your strongest town read...?

I am. Why?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:03 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:02 pm Sloonei, you sure Drago is your strongest town read...?

I am. Why?

His most recent post was...very noncommittal.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:03 pm But I still have more things to say. The perfectionist in me wants to lay out my case for leetic in full, among other things.

Go for it. I'm willing to vote leetic, but I'll hold off.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:58 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:56 pm Its gonna be hard for me to participate in these remaining hours. I'm quite busy right now so EoD activity is a no go from my side.

My reads right now still have LC as scum but it's not as strong as before. Leetic has creeped up in my scum reads, but it's not very strong either. My reasons don't felt good enough to support a vote on him and I have had a couple mindmelds with him. His defense against my recent accusations were just as well.

Speedchuck is probably my strongest scum read atm doubt that's not saying much as it's still kinda weak, just barely above the other two. I don't think I'll be voting anybody for this phase.

My town reads, on the other hand, are quite strong. max, Sloonei, and FG are the highest; all three equal with each other. Turnip Head, TS, Ted, and Epi follow behind.

Radish and TSP are my remaining null reads.

You've got this nailed down to a POE of 5 on D1 and you aren't comfortable voting?

I'm not comfortable voting on weak scum reads.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:03 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:02 pm Sloonei, you sure Drago is your strongest town read...?

I am. Why?

His most recent post was...very noncommittal.

Is that bad?

I refuse to vote for anybody that I'm not confident in. Y'all just gotta deal with that right now.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:07 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:03 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:02 pm Sloonei, you sure Drago is your strongest town read...?

I am. Why?

His most recent post was...very noncommittal.

Is that bad?

Maybe not. But it's also very convenient that he's dismissing the current wagons and setting us up to have no info on him next phase when we get some hard info about said wagons.

I'm not advocating his lynch here. I just don't get why you have him TRed so strongly.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:07 pm I refuse to vote for anybody that I'm not confident in. Y'all just gotta deal with that right now.

If I did that I'd never vote anyone.

Mikey why are you off-wagon? I don't see you pushing Drago the same way you pushed Sloonei to start the game

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:01 pm We’re close enough to the deadline now that we can start positioning ourselves for a hammer.

Do you have a lot of experience with this mechanic? I have experienced it once but it was long ago and I got murdered early, so I basically have no experience with it.

I think funnygurl has too much town cred compared to her contributions. I can tone-read her as town but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Her defense of tedextr doesn't come across as completely genuine to me, either

Also,

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:56 pm Radish and TSP are my remaining null reads.

I'm not personally offended or anything, but really? No read on me? Is it unfamiliarity?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:14 pm I think funnygurl has too much town cred compared to her contributions. I can tone-read her as town but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Her defense of tedextr doesn't come across as completely genuine to me, either

So what are you going to do about it?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:09 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:07 pm I refuse to vote for anybody that I'm not confident in. Y'all just gotta deal with that right now.

If I did that I'd never vote anyone.

That's cool bro.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:21 pm Also,

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:56 pm Radish and TSP are my remaining null reads.

I'm not personally offended or anything, but really? No read on me? Is it unfamiliarity?

I don’t really have a strong read on you, but I maybe chalk that up to unfamiliarity. I don’t think we’ve both been alive in a game for more than two days before.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:21 pm Also,

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:56 pm Radish and TSP are my remaining null reads.

I'm not personally offended or anything, but really? No read on me? Is it unfamiliarity?

No, I'm just not sure. I was heading in the direction that you were scum but now I don't need know what to think. I need to read more.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:24 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:09 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:07 pm I refuse to vote for anybody that I'm not confident in. Y'all just gotta deal with that right now.

If I did that I'd never vote anyone.

That's cool bro.

Sloonei is the Chidi Anagonye of Mafia.

Oh that was Radishes that said that. Radishes can be Chidi Anagonye.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:07 pm I refuse to vote for anybody that I'm not confident in. Y'all just gotta deal with that right now.

You're sitting on fences.

I'm just going to take these as compliments about my supremely enigmatic playstyle.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:26 pm Oh that was Radishes that said that. Radishes can be Chidi Anagonye.

I don't know what this means but thank you.

I dug into leetic's ISO. He's got a good vibe to start with and his points don't seem underhanded or opportunistic, but that vibe sort of deteriorates as the day goes on, which could be a reaction to him getting votes. At one point he makes a point-for-point attack on ted which I found to be a little extra but I generally like the case.

He also made a really interesting point that got lost in the early game:

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:13 am

ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:57 am

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:06 am
Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

I would like to know from you. Are you worried about me pocketing you?

Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.

This exchange looks sketchy on Mikey tbh

I came out of leetic's ISO feeling good about his early game and kind of questioning his vibe change later on, and I like his points about ted. I don't think I want to lynch leetic.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:22 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:14 pm I think funnygurl has too much town cred compared to her contributions. I can tone-read her as town but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Her defense of tedextr doesn't come across as completely genuine to me, either

So what are you going to do about it?

Well ideally we lynch ted first

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:01 pm We’re close enough to the deadline now that we can start positioning ourselves for a hammer.

Do you have a lot of experience with this mechanic? I have experienced it once but it was long ago and I got murdered early, so I basically have no experience with it.

Limited, but not zero. My only strategic input is that I prefer to use up as much of the allotted time as possible.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:28 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:26 pm Oh that was Radishes that said that. Radishes can be Chidi Anagonye.

I don't know what this means but thank you.

I think it's a type of soup.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:01 pm We’re close enough to the deadline now that we can start positioning ourselves for a hammer.

Do you have a lot of experience with this mechanic? I have experienced it once but it was long ago and I got murdered early, so I basically have no experience with it.

Limited, but not zero. My only strategic input is that I prefer to use up as much of the allotted time as possible.

We get all the time. Extra time after hammer is for discussion.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:09 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:07 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:03 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:02 pm Sloonei, you sure Drago is your strongest town read...?

I am. Why?

His most recent post was...very noncommittal.

Is that bad?

Maybe not. But it's also very convenient that he's dismissing the current wagons and setting us up to have no info on him next phase when we get some hard info about said wagons.

I'm not advocating his lynch here. I just don't get why you have him TRed so strongly.

The strength of my town read on Drago is tied to his decision to throw out all of his reads and start over last night. It's a feeling I've felt in the past as a civilian, and the way he did it (and then followed through on his pledge) reeked of pure civilian energy to me. I see no reason for Mafia Drago to even conceive of that strategically, let alone to even bother going through with it.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:34 pm We get all the time. Extra time after hammer is for discussion.

Can we not also discuss things before the lynch?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:34 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:01 pm We’re close enough to the deadline now that we can start positioning ourselves for a hammer.

Do you have a lot of experience with this mechanic? I have experienced it once but it was long ago and I got murdered early, so I basically have no experience with it.

Limited, but not zero. My only strategic input is that I prefer to use up as much of the allotted time as possible.

We get all the time. Extra time after hammer is for discussion.

I don't think this is true. Where are you getting it?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:14 pm I think funnygurl has too much town cred compared to her contributions. I can tone-read her as town but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Her defense of tedextr doesn't come across as completely genuine to me, either

I've cooled off on my town read of her a bit too. I thought her defense of ted looked real good last night, and I still have that argument in my head, but I can also argue that it's not a good look. That was the strongest point in her favor.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:01 pm We’re close enough to the deadline now that we can start positioning ourselves for a hammer.

Do you have a lot of experience with this mechanic? I have experienced it once but it was long ago and I got murdered early, so I basically have no experience with it.

Limited, but not zero. My only strategic input is that I prefer to use up as much of the allotted time as possible.

In general, it's best to avoid the hammer too early, yeah. In D1, eh, I don't think it matters as much. We'll still learn lots from how things unfold and how the player flips.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:35 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:09 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:07 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:03 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:02 pm Sloonei, you sure Drago is your strongest town read...?

I am. Why?

His most recent post was...very noncommittal.

Is that bad?

Maybe not. But it's also very convenient that he's dismissing the current wagons and setting us up to have no info on him next phase when we get some hard info about said wagons.

I'm not advocating his lynch here. I just don't get why you have him TRed so strongly.

The strength of my town read on Drago is tied to his decision to throw out all of his reads and start over last night. It's a feeling I've felt in the past as a civilian, and the way he did it (and then followed through on his pledge) reeked of pure civilian energy to me. I see no reason for Mafia Drago to even conceive of that strategically, let alone to even bother going through with it.

I see. I mean, I've done that sort of thing before as scum as a way to look like a lost townie, but I get what you mean now. It did feel organic.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:34 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:01 pm We’re close enough to the deadline now that we can start positioning ourselves for a hammer.

Do you have a lot of experience with this mechanic? I have experienced it once but it was long ago and I got murdered early, so I basically have no experience with it.

Limited, but not zero. My only strategic input is that I prefer to use up as much of the allotted time as possible.

We get all the time. Extra time after hammer is for discussion.

I don't think so. I think we only get the time until Nanook shows up to reveal the flip and end the round.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:39 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:01 pm We’re close enough to the deadline now that we can start positioning ourselves for a hammer.

Do you have a lot of experience with this mechanic? I have experienced it once but it was long ago and I got murdered early, so I basically have no experience with it.

Limited, but not zero. My only strategic input is that I prefer to use up as much of the allotted time as possible.

In general, it's best to avoid the hammer too early, yeah. In D1, eh, I don't think it matters as much. We'll still learn lots from how things unfold and how the player flips.

I would think Day 1 is the most important time to eat up all the time. It's the only phase where we'll have a full roster.

Well, this game doesn't have a full roster on Day 1. But generally speaking

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:41 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:39 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:01 pm We’re close enough to the deadline now that we can start positioning ourselves for a hammer.

Do you have a lot of experience with this mechanic? I have experienced it once but it was long ago and I got murdered early, so I basically have no experience with it.

Limited, but not zero. My only strategic input is that I prefer to use up as much of the allotted time as possible.

In general, it's best to avoid the hammer too early, yeah. In D1, eh, I don't think it matters as much. We'll still learn lots from how things unfold and how the player flips.

I would think Day 1 is the most important time to eat up all the time. It's the only phase where we'll have a full roster.

But the stakes are lower. We get this wrong, eh, we get some hard info and try again. In later rounds, when the maj is only 3 or 4 votes and the pressure is on, that's when you've got to be super careful.

What if we all vote Speedchuck? Anyone?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:43 pm What if we all vote Speedchuck? Anyone?

Mmmmmaybe

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:36 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:34 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:01 pm We’re close enough to the deadline now that we can start positioning ourselves for a hammer.

Do you have a lot of experience with this mechanic? I have experienced it once but it was long ago and I got murdered early, so I basically have no experience with it.

Limited, but not zero. My only strategic input is that I prefer to use up as much of the allotted time as possible.

We get all the time. Extra time after hammer is for discussion.

I don't think this is true. Where are you getting it?

I think whoever responded after me was right and I was reading it wrong

My main criticism of leetic is that his reads have not seemed organic or receptive. I think this early post serves as a good example of what I mean by that: ts account and I were in the middle of our prolonged headbutt at this time, and leetic chimed in purely to cast suspicion on one of us. At this point the dialogue was pretty fluid, neither of us were really trying to pin the other down, but leetic's contribution was static. He plopped down a read + vote and that was that. It didn't advance the dialogue and it didn't appear to be receptive of an alternative view.
This wouldn't be a concern on its own early in Day 1. You've gotta throw things against the wall at this stage. But it becomes a problem when it's a continuing trend as the game expands, like in his next post, or for a later example this speculation about his wagon. In general I feel like leetic's handling of ted (and to a lesser extent, speedchuck) has been iffy. It has the feel of a mafia player who has selected his lynch targets and will push for them regardless of new developments, rather than a player who is actively trying to develop his reads on his suspects. Earlier today I asked him to explain why he's so adamant about ted and his answer didn't have the weight I would expect from a civilian in his position: He's just described the process of making a case against a suspect. I won't argue that ted has treated leetic entirely fairly, so I can understand a level of frustration here, but I think that goes both ways and I am not inclined to agree with leetic's assessment of the premise of ted's case here.

The other part of my dialogue with leetic this afternoon revolved around speedchuck. That felt similarly baseless. It starts here:

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:44 pm I'd love to point out that speedchuck has never commented on me or my wagon, despite how big a topic it was. Almost as if he knows I'm town and is like "I want no part in this".

My observation at the time was, and still is, that speedchuck has been the lightest poster in this game. The list of things he has not commented on is much longer than the list of things he has commented on. This felt like a highly arbitrary accusation against an arbitrary target. He's taken several other shots at speedchuck, all of which have fit the mold of "setting up suspicions" as opposed to "developing reads": A common accusation per the Book of Mafia is that it's suspicious for players to be "wishywashy" or "noncomittal" or whatever term you prefer. I am accusing leetic of the opposite: I see no wavering when he talks about his suspects: people's actions are suspicious and that is final.

I have one more point to address, which I've already touched on previously, but I want to post this now since we're in the final hour.