The Syndicate

WOW Dom What a reply . I have never seen Dom's civ game but I have seen his baddie game twice and that last post of your's is making me "eye ball you" lol

Bass_the_Clever wrote:WOW Dom What a reply . I have never seen Dom's civ game but I have seen his baddie game twice and that last post of your's is making me "eye ball you" lol

orly

So hedgeowl who are you eye balling?

HO HO HO Merry Christmas everyone.

RIp VOMP and FZ

Dom wrote:I don't think Epig made very good points at all, actually.

I didn't?

Dom wrote:He just jabbed at me for my use of "probably"

Yeah, I did that...

Dom wrote:and for fucking up a use of a metaphor.

...and I did that too.

Dom wrote:He made one point that I accepted,

Was that when I said I act better than you?

Dom wrote:but I don't think Epig is on a civ friendly game.

I don't think I am either. For goodness sake, I helped lynch two civilians.

Dom wrote:I do think that Epig's posts have been saturated with arrogance this entire game (most games, but it feels more bloated this game).

That's because I'm a better player than you'll ever be.

Dom wrote:I don't think my suspicion came out of no where at all, MP. I don't think my suspicion was sudden. I think you fail to see my questioning of whether he still suspected K4J as the inklings of my suspicion of Epig.

I would address this, but you weren't speaking to me. So I don't want to be rude.

Dom wrote:I don't think my case on SVS is completely based on tone. I think SVS's tendency to suspect who Epig suspects this game might mean she is on an opposite baddie team than him. I think she doesn't want him to suspect her.

I always suspect S~V~S. She is permanently on the naughty list. But as long as she agrees with me, I'm okay with her.

Dom wrote: I have explained that I think Epig's sudden drop of K4J after vowing to vote for him the second he could is very strange for Epig. I have, in more than one game, seen Epig do something just like that. I find this suspect. I also think his responses to my suspicions have been very flippant and dismissive, which doesn't bode well with me. How exactly does this suspicion make me bad?
I also don't really see where I agreed with the Mongoose case?

There was no sudden drop of a k4j suspicion. I went hard after him. You asked if I still suspected him, and I said "Yeah, a little." And now I don't at all. That's not sudden. That's gradual.

Dom wrote: LINKI:
Epig, why are you okay with a lynch on me? Because I disagree with you?

Yes.

Dom wrote: I also have noted that your record in this game has sucked. Not any better than mine because by not voting, I have essentially endorsed every lynch, and I feel terrible, but this makes me feel uneasy about you.

Pots and kettles are on aisle three.

Dom wrote:I've never seen your track record this bad, as a civ. You always throw stuff out there, but you never contradict yourself. And backing out of a vote the way you did is something you would pounce on someone for. This makes me all the more uneasy.

What can I say? I love fucking with people who think they've got me down.

I might actually start marking down how many civilians I can get lynched before I leave the game myself. Could set a record, who knows?

kneel4justice wrote:Lol Epi you went after me hard? I missed that!

I really targeted. G-Man Acolyte of Death so.

kneel4justice wrote:omg I was thinking of who would be most fun to insanify and Epi was on the list (not that I have the power, just crossed my mind obviously), I think I'll ignore everything he says like he did to me.

One line please! Not two!

F*CK F*CK F*CK!

RIP FZ and Vomps!

Since I'm working on Christmas Eve, I suppose I'll go through and take a look at everyone's posts.

WEll, Epi, that was fun while it lasted.

Dom wrote:WEll, Epi, that was fun while it lasted.

Fuck obligor.

Epignosis wrote:

Dom wrote:WEll, Epi, that was fun while it lasted.

Fuck obligor.

For real. I didn't do this to you. But I find it extremely humorous.

Ok here is who I am looking at the closest here.

MP- Your original post about how my "I'm civve" post was strange, or wasn't strange. It's kinda hard to tell what you think based on the post because it can go either way.

MovingPictures07 wrote:For the record, K4J, I agree with you regarding Sorsha's post; it seemed unnecessary to me, as if she's trying too hard. BUT I have heard of games where those types of statements were "checkable", so maybe it's possible. Seems rarer to me though and kind of pointless, but I suppose her post could be completely legit. I don't THINK I've ever played one where statements that blatant were checkable by a lie detector role though.

Consequently, I'm not sure her post really means anything at all. I don't think it really tells me anything, especially this early in the game. But, out of curiosity, do others agree here with my assessment and was anyone else wildly pinged by that statement?

When I first read it I thought you agreed that I was suspicious. Then someone called you on it and you backed off saying you meant that I wasn't suspicious for it.
I have played quite a few games with you and can not remember you brining me up like this or agreeing with someone on something like this about me ever. Its possible that you HAVE but it has been so infrequent that I can't think of a time it has ever happened. Your subsequent posts about me have had the same flip floppiness. From the post above to now I feel like you are just waiting for someone to solidly say "I am voting for Sorsha" so that you can be like "Yeah, me too."


SVS- I am 50/50 with you right now. The following posts are something I did not expect from you. On one hand, if you are bad, I think you'd just leave me out to hang. If you are civvie I don't see you sticking your neck out for, what some might consider, a defense.

S~V~S wrote:I will say that Sorsha tends to play a blendy early game whether civ or bad, so of the two, I would lean more towards DP. When he is civ and has no idea whats going on, he will post a vote for someone with no votes before latching onto a bandwagon, especially if it is already decided.

I have to reread from when i went to work ( Christmas party was awesome, got lots of fun stuff from bosses & coworkers and an awesome lunch of linguini with clam sauce from my favorite italian place, so I am happy and ready to mafia )

S~V~S wrote:"Block" was the wrong word, I meant voting together as a group~

I have played Mafia with Sorsha a long time. At the time we played across 4 sites, LP, RM, TP, & HV, we both played all of those sites. Sorsha does not do scummy things in the thread when she is bad in general. She is a very careful player. She starts out slow most games and blossoms later on, good or bad. I think her posts recently seemed like frustration at some thread shenanigans.

k4j- You find me suspicious for various reasons my Vomps vote, my day one "I am a civvie" comment and general laying low quiet behavior but at the simplest explaination from me you say "ok." Like, thats it? All I have to say is "This is how I always am" and its all good? You are another like MP who keeps tossing my name around (from day 1... or day zero even) but aren't really committing to it. Like keeping me on the back burner to bring up as soon as someone gets the Sorsha ball rolling at some point.

And this first following post shows more of MP just keeping is spoon in the pot.

kneel4justice wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Voted Vomps. He voted himself too so I am assuming he wants to be lynched.

This is such an easy vote. You do not have to do any kind of scumhunting at all to vote for Vomps. At least TH provided a bit more reasoning than you did.
If you were truly assuming he wanted to be lynched, which I don't think you are (I think you're just trying to show your disapproval for his gameplay), then you'd consider the fact that scum do not want to be lynched.

Agreed here.

I'm torn because I understand the metagaming reasons to vote Vomps out (if you're not being a helpful civvie, why even play?), BUT, wrathofgod still has not even posted once and no one is even talking about her. Why not vote there either? And then add in the reasons you state above; it just removes all accountability.

Vomps is just as statistically likely to be baddie as anyone else playing, but I just get the feeling he hasn't really invested himself (yet) in this game, so he's making himself an easy target. Whether he's doing it to fuck with all of us because he's baddie or whether he's just doing it because he's a lost civvie who loves being zany, I do not know, and it's always so hard to tell with him. I feel he is being especially more elusive this game for some reason, but maybe it's because he's playing two games at once and there's a bunch of people he doesn't know. Now that I think about it, I do notice he tends to come out of his shell and play a bit more traditionally when he knows the players quite well and when it's a smaller group, but... even then, there's sometimes not at all a method to his madness.

Anyway, rambling done. What are you thinking, K4J; where's your vote going for sure, do you know?

I really want to vote S~V~S... honestly, she's still my #1. But I really hate spread out votes because they open votes up to baddie manipulation and we already have a spread vote here AND I like discussing out suspicions with others to see what they are thinking AND I am just now beginning to consider I may be wrong, so... you going to vote S~V~S or someone else?

I think I still will, but I'm trying to consider all of the options. There are a few others that have acted in ways that have proven very possibly worthy of votes, IMO (Russ comes to mind).

I think that I want to vote for Russ. I'm nervous, I like to be a lot more sure but obviously that is not going to happen this game since I do not know the majority of players. I am not sure how people operate and think on the sidelines here, so I can't really dig as deep as I want to with my suspicion. If that makes any sense...probably not.

Sorsha's post makes me think she might be bad, but I don't think it's enough to vote for her.
SVS is someone I am contemplating but her Lie Detector stuff does make sense. I really just do not know because I wasn't paying a lot of attention to Mongoose because I didn't see anything suspicious jumping out at me while others were just going on and on, I was confused and focused elsewhere. So I have no idea if she really did what SVS is saying.

kneel4justice wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Voted Vomps. He voted himself too so I am assuming he wants to be lynched.

This is such an easy vote. You do not have to do any kind of scumhunting at all to vote for Vomps. At least TH provided a bit more reasoning than you did.
If you were truly assuming he wanted to be lynched, which I don't think you are (I think you're just trying to show your disapproval for his gameplay), then you'd consider the fact that scum do not want to be lynched.

So what... its my vote to do with what I want.

{Quote from MP removed because of the 5 embedded quota}

I have a few that I am keeping an eye on, nothing that I feel like bringing up at this point though.

I am a player that sites back and watches for a while. Its how I have always been and its probably how I wil always be, if you don't like it then vote for me. I don't really care.

And if you explained that, then I would have been more understanding. I have no idea how you play because I have never played with you before. I wasn't telling you how to play, I was just expressing my opinion on your vote.

So I'd say for now MP and k4j are my 1 and 2. SVS I am just watching, I think she can read my civvie game pretty well, she has in the past anyway, so I think after another day or two she will be able to see my civviness.... and if not then I think she'd be more of a concern.

I don't know when I'll be able to have time to go over more of my smaller suspicions, with the holiday and all, but these were the easiest for me to address first.

*cough, cough* Can I have the attention of the class...



...for one second...


A Person - Survived a lynch attempt. Unless Day 0 had anything to do with his survival, he could be one of 3 civ roles or 2 bad roles. Obtuse commentary throughout the thread, thus making my read on him clouded and obtuse as well.

Bass - Again, not a lot to read on him, but he was consistent with his excuse of being sick between here and the other game(s?) he was involved in at the time he posted said message here, iirc. I did crick my brow when he changed his day 1 strategy from voting a low poster to randomizing with 0 mention of it in-between. "I hate saying this but I have to go with Epi on Mongoose today" was another ping in terms of language, since it reeks of distancing and assigning responsibility for your vote to other players. Was on both the Mongoose and Russti wagons. Voted "Other" on Day 1, but icr if he said why? He's also been off-and-on about defending/trusting Epi in the early stages of the game, so . His posts tonight/day are "Let's look at the 10 people who didn't vote", "I'ma eyeball Dom big-time", and "Hedgeowl, what are your thoughts?". Looking forward to how he follows through with those 3 focuses.

Boomslang - Not having an avatar makes it difficult to find your posts . Tbh, if I had even noticed his opening post before this, it would have seemed very off to me. Another near-death survivor, iirc, this time from an NK. He's been very agreeable with everyone, not just Mongoose on her math stuff. His overall agreeable tone is conveniently blendy. Compared to how infrequently he posts, he does seem to be on top of the thread's activity, so I'm intrigued by him.

Bullz - I've felt strong about Bullz all game. Copacetic readthrough and has shared a lot of my own opinions without piggybacking on them (ie: voicing them without me mentioning them first in thread). One of my best civ feelings, at this point.

BwIT - Ok, this is a new BwIT, right? The options in my head are that he was a non-role-checking/info-based civ and replaced another civ, or a bad, or an independent (always likely), or that he was a baddie and replaced a teammate (also very likely, given the history of this game so far). The odds that he was on a bad team and replaced an opposing bad, civ, or independent role are slim to none, imo. It would give him way too much of an unfair advantage. I think everyone could have figured that out though, haha.

Captain Bunny Killer - Hello, nice to meet you. Post more please. :P Had a Summer vote and a "back atcha" kinda vote at Devin.

Devin - Yeah, I already said I think he could fit cleanly into the 5 "survive a lynch" people, and he's just zany enough to stick his neck out for that as a civ too, so I'm on the fence about his intentions. Blech, in comparison to Meat Boy Mafia, I have no reason to think he's not an evil, evil role, but it's like it's so in my face that it's holding me back. He's dropping small seeds of suspicion against me and not following through, which is also a big "wtf"?

DP - I've missed you. Where are you?

Dom - I'm not seeing a case on him. And I'll reiterate that I used to ALWAYS find him "day 1 shady" on LP, but I was very unconvinced of placing a vote there in this game. He's gunning for Epi right now, but based on my interactions with him during Lost Mafia, I am not surprised he is, haha.

Elo - Barely here, not responding to any eyes on her when she is here. I know travel/time constraints play a part in it, so there's that. I'm not sure what to think one way or another. I do know that Epi's endorsement does squat for my opinion though. Rocked the Mongoose vote both days, 1 was randomized and the second was a piggyback on Epi's vote.

Epi - I'd rather lynch him and have him chastise us for being nubs and lynching a civ than having him continue to lynch civs just to add to his tally and boast about that. Regardless, you and Dom: get a room because this back-and-forth is not making my reread any simpler or more entertaining. Oh, and I think your grand entrance directed at K4J was a lot of sizzle, no steak. Yeah, you could definitely be bad. Without knowing your alignment in the first game we played, and my only other experience being a civ you that I was very sure was civ, idk.

Hedgie - Welcome to this wonderful game! You just got here, so yeah. Do please elaborate on this though: "Epi, k4j, MP, and MR all fall into my top ten posters suspect list. Just sayin'.". What were you sayin'?

K4J - Initially, I shared Epi's "cold read" on you. I have since backed off a bit. However, I do have this inkling feeling in my head that you and him are teammates and running an absolutely wacky baddie game right now . All the more reason I'm ok with an Epi lynch today, tbh.

Lizzy - Like I said, I had a piss-poor read on her in Meat Boy Mafia, so I'm lost, tbh. And after talking to her in civ-on-civ BTSC during that game, I gained a bit of insight, but not enough to make a confident decision one way or another here. Randomizing in one thread and the usual self-vote in another did give me pause and I'm surprised it wasn't followed up on, especially after more people (I think) voiced suspicion in it. Add that to WIFOM "Oh, I slipped", a wishy-washy opinion on Mongoose, and her suspecting one of my most trusted players with a "I did this when I was bad" reasoning and I'm really not feeling good about her either.

LouLou - Backed off of her suspicion of me without responding to my commenting on the fact that she contradicted her own post. Has 3 pages of posts, and a plethora of suspects who she later backed off without much reason. Seems like a lot of throwing glue-covered pasta at flypaper to see if it sticks .

MP - Have had strong civ feelings about MP as well. Don't agree with his assessment of Dom though. I think there's been a lot of posturing going on from Dom, MP, and Epi that I'll need to sift through to find their more meaty content. Oh, and btw: I don't think you're reading me any different than the previous game, I think you're feeling some latent baddie guilt for getting my lynched there.

Sorsha - I don't think I have much to go on with her so far, but what I see doesn't read particularly shady at all.

Daisy - Again, low posts. It's 3 in the morning, this digging through the thread just to find 1 post to click "In Topic" on is getting tiresome. YAY, found 1. Ok, seems like she's been gunning for Lizzy the past couple of votes. I'll be looking to see how that evolves, do try to elaborate on it.

Summer - Either a really in-my-face WIFOM baddie or a pretty solid barometer of a new civ on this site, while experienced at detectiving on another, I think. She's felt pretty on-point with her cases so far, even if her one against me was dead wrong. I feel partly at fault for not responding sooner to it, and I feel that Lou raises my brow further than her out of the two who voted for me.

SVS - I've probably played with you in most of the games I've participated in, but I can't remember anything I'd be looking for, civ or bad with you, haha. From a cold read of your posts, I don't feel like you're bad though.

Turnip Head - I've felt okay about you. Like Bullz, you're another person who has stated thoughts similar to the ones I've yet to post. I feel like that's a pretty ok indicator.

wrathofgod - C'mon, I had to replace you last game. I was looking forward to finally playing in a game with you this time!

Zany Dex - Yeah, um... I do feel that Bullz had a good assessment: "Dex was late showing up and voted 7th. Looking at his posts he hasn't seemed to really add very much, just agreeing with others. He also hasn't seemed his usual zany self in this game.". Idk what to go on with Dex. It seems like he had more input in my Flash Mafia game submission than he has had in this whole game. :/

1. Ho ho ho Merry Christmas k

2. VMOPS

3. This:

Loulou26 wrote:Okay I'm voting Lizzy. I don't like the fact that she has voted Bull when I think out of everyone he's the most civvie right now because of all the analysing he's doing.

this:

FZ. wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Bullzeye - Firmly leaning civvie - Has been posting with frequency and insight that I would expect from him. Can be a really tricksy baddie, but I don't have any reason to believe he's doing that here. Seems reasonable and I believe he is genuinely civvie-minded.

might be the person I feel is most civvie. He's posts come off as genuine, I like the way he's thinking most of the time, and even when I don't agree with his suspicions, I get where they are coming from

and this:

Mister Rearranger wrote: Bullz - I've felt strong about Bullz all game. Copacetic readthrough and has shared a lot of my own opinions without piggybacking on them (ie: voicing them without me mentioning them first in thread). One of my best civ feelings, at this point.

... make me feel even more confident about my vote for teh Bullzer

Lizzy, do you believe FZ was a baddie offed by an opposing baddie?

I believe FZ was a player offed by an indie SK. That being said she seemed fairly civ-ish to me.

Just skimmed, will read better after breakfast & prezzies~ I think FZ had a non BTS role. She seemed to really be trying hard to get a grip on stuff, and it did not feel fake or forced to me. And i think if she had had BTS with one or more locals, it would have been forced. So odds say she was a civ. I also see that the SK made an appearance? And Vomps is a weird target.

And looking back, if i recall correctly, this is only the 2nd insanification of the game? And the civ insanifies 3rd night? So is Roddy gone, or is Roddy missing PMs? Or is it just a coincidence?

OK, coffee, waffles, pretty packages~ Merry Christmas!!

Okay, I don't have long; I have to head out of the house here in about 20-30 minutes to drive for a couple of hours, so I'll keep this brief (by my standards).

First off, RIPIYWG Vomps and FZ. I was really enjoying playing with you, FZ, so regardless of your alignment, sad to see you go. Vomps is a REALLY weird kill... someone obviously just wanted him out of the game.

Dom wrote: HOLD UP BUDDY
First of all, very interesting a monster post about me emerges when I say I'm starting to eye you for reasons I think are stupid to suspect SVS for. I have apologized for missing the votes. I really hate it when this happens to me, and it's happened to me as both alignments. I've been extraordinarily busy this week(s). I feel like shit for missing the votes, but I just keep forgetting I am in games until I get home and when I start my read, I have six or so pages to read up on.
One thing that I don't think is fair is that you characterize my discussion of Epig as antagonizing. That choice in diction is very deliberate, MP. I don't want you to bullshit me. I don't think that's a fair characterization at all.
I don't think Epig made very good points at all, actually. He just jabbed at me for my use of "probably" and for fucking up a use of a metaphor. He made one point that I accepted, but I don't think Epig is on a civ friendly game. I do think that Epig's posts have been saturated with arrogance this entire game (most games, but it feels more bloated this game). I don't think my suspicion came out of no where at all, MP. I don't think my suspicion was sudden. I think you fail to see my questioning of whether he still suspected K4J as the inklings of my suspicion of Epig.

I don't think my case on SVS is completely based on tone. I think SVS's tendency to suspect who Epig suspects this game might mean she is on an opposite baddie team than him. I think she doesn't want him to suspect her.

"Just antagonizes"
MP that's a pretty gross generalization. I have explained that I think Epig's sudden drop of K4J after vowing to vote for him the second he could is very strange for Epig. I have, in more than one game, seen Epig do something just like that. I find this suspect. I also think his responses to my suspicions have been very flippant and dismissive, which doesn't bode well with me. How exactly does this suspicion make me bad?
I also don't really see where I agreed with the Mongoose case?

I also never said you were a baddie. i said I had my eye on you for those reasons. That's a far cry from what you are saying. Cut the bullshit, Alex. You do this a a civvie and a baddie, but honestly, I never said anything remotely close to that. Don't pretend I did.

In short, Alex, this post was very unfair to me. You grossly mischaracterized several of my posts, made very large generalizations, and made shit up. I never said I "thought you must be a baddie" or anything of the sort. I said I had my eye on you.
I question Epig-- that's antagonizing.
Epig questions anyone and everyone-- that's playing Mafia.
Explain to me the difference, MP. How am I "antagonizing" Epig? How is Epig not "antagonizing" others? Why are you so fond of this word? Because of its negative connotations? Because you just want me gone, out of this game?

LINKI:
Epig, why are you okay with a lynch on me? Because I disagree with you? I don't really see your train of thought there.
I also have noted that your record in this game has sucked. Not any better than mine because by not voting, I have essentially endorsed every lynch, and I feel terrible, but this makes me feel uneasy about you. I've never seen your track record this bad, as a civ. You always throw stuff out there, but you never contradict yourself. And backing out of a vote the way you did is something you would pounce on someone for. This makes me all the more uneasy.
So, MP, explain to me, please, how the hell I have nothing of substance. I have two suspicions I feel very passionately about that I plan on voting for. I just have fucked up big time with lynches in every game I'm in. I actually just forgot I'm in Timmer's game on RM...

Anyway, MP, you have plenty of people with zero substance. Plenty. If that's why you're looking at me, you're making no sense.

HOLD ON BUDDY RIGHT BACK AT YOU. Look, you're awesome. Love playing with you. But your response here does you no favors; in fact, it only makes me think I'm on the right track.

First off, the timing is nothing of note; if you didn't notice, I made a list post on everyone, and there were a handful of people I wanted to go back and re-read their posts. You were the first one. Hence, that's why I went back through your posts, and since you had just recently posted, I responded to you at the same time.

I wasn't trying to antagonize you for missing votes, just stating a fact that it's impossible to use any of your voting record in analysis. I know how it is missing votes; it feels terrible to miss them, regardless of alignment.

You get caught up on my use of the word "antagonizing", and I think it's either because you were offended, or you just can't properly respond to the accusation. I did NOT mean it offensively, so if you took it that way, I'm sorry. Yes, Epig "antagonizes" others, if you want to say it that way. But here's the thing: the bulk of your posts is just questioning/antagonizing Epig and not really explaining where you're coming from until later on, and even still all you repeat is that you "don't see Epig's civvie game" and that "he's never this wrong as a civvie", two things that are pretty broad and easily disproven. Epig is not infallible; if you saw him in the Meat Boy game, he did not suspect a single baddie that entire game, and he was civvie. And what exactly constitutes Epig's "civvie" game anyway? Because frankly, I'm seeing his civvie game in full force here. Does that not make you at least question your assessment of what his civvie game is -- OR do you just want to lynch him because he makes himself SUCH an easy target? I would know. I always make myself an easy target for baddies wanting a quick and easy lynch trying to say that I'm not playing my civvie game.

Now in every single bit of language you respond with here, you NEVER address the points made against you that you never exactly said why Epig is bad until after you stated you were suspecting him.

Am I missing something here? Because I STILL don't see it other than "he's not playing his civvie game". That's all you have. You even admit he appears to be arrogant (which can be just as offensive as "antagonizing", if you take it that way) all the time, regardless of alignment. So what makes him so different here, Dom?? His bad track record? I already addressed that. What makes him so different?

You say you don't think your suspicion was sudden. But it was. Doesn't matter what you think. Look back at your posts and you can understand how you just suspect Epig after previously agreeing with him (and saying S~V~S had an excellent point, in fact). Which brings me to...

Additionally, you ask you don't see where you agreed with the Mongoose case.

Dom wrote:

Devin the Omniscient wrote:Now that I am caught up!!! I'm not sure about Mongoose. I feel like every time this happens with her we end up roasting a civ goose... But go ahead. I'd be interested in seeing the result

At first, I wasn't buying the Mongoose case...
But I don't like how she's been responding to Epig-- at all. I also think SVS brought an excellent point up about trying to deflect everything into the Off Topic. If I had to vote now, it'd be for Mongoose.

Does that ring a bell? I highlighted this in my summary post.

I will however concede that you made good points with you inquiring of Epig regarding K4J being an inkling of suspicion and that you never gunned for me as baddie. Both true and well-illustrated.

And thanks for explaining your thought process behind S~V~S because I see now how that was implied through your posts but was never strictly stated. But that's a REALLY weak reason for pushing for an S~V~S lynch, don't you think? "I don't think my case on SVS is completely based on tone. I think SVS's tendency to suspect who Epig suspects this game might mean she is on an opposite baddie team than him. I think she doesn't want him to suspect her." That's it, really? And you call my reasons weak?

I do love the deflect at the end to others with zero substance. Yes, of course, you would want me to look elsewhere, and specifically at low posters, wouldn't you? We both know that's often a baddie tactic when they're getting heat.

Lastly, I'm not bullshitting you anywhere, and the suggestion that I am is absurd and almost a little insulting (but I'm not offended). Why would I recap all of that about your posts if I didn't believe it?

In short, your two major suspicions that you say make you have more than "zero substance" (something I never even accused you of) are near completely baseless. You say Epig is not playing his civvie game but never quite explain a near satisfactory reason for that assessment, yet you gun after him HARD. You say S~V~S is bad over and over but only because she is agreeable with Epig and you thus MUST think she is on the opposite baddie team. Additionally, you've said hardly anything about anyone else this game. I know you're really busy, but you've had time to post about those two, and you said nothing about anyone else, oh that's right, except Mongoose. Which you conveniently didn't get eyeballed for bandwagoning for because you missed the vote.

I want to vote you now, but I want to hear what others have to say too. Might as well wait.

Sorsha, I'll address your post whenever I can; I have to go. But I find it hilarious you're bringing back up this original post of mine about you early in the game when I believe I addressed it AD NAUSEUM.

And MR, if you want the "case" against Dom, just read what I have above and my summary, if you really want to know -- and don't get caught up in all seeming like petty, meaningless aggression. I'm so glad I did the list recap and re-read Dom because for the first time this game I feel like I finally have something concrete.

Now -- I really have to go. Happy Holidays to everyone!!!

Mister Rearranger wrote:Epi - I'd rather lynch him and have him chastise us for being nubs and lynching a civ than having him continue to lynch civs just to add to his tally and boast about that. Regardless, you and Dom: get a room because this back-and-forth is not making my reread any simpler or more entertaining. Oh, and I think your grand entrance directed at K4J was a lot of sizzle, no steak. Yeah, you could definitely be bad. Without knowing your alignment in the first game we played, and my only other experience being a civ you that I was very sure was civ, idk.

acescent votograph cannot lynch civilians by myself.

I am feeling all warm & Christmas fuzzy, and don't feel like getting involved with Dom & MP right now, lol. Love those 2 guys and been playing with both of them since they started playing, and they both know how to push my buttons really, really well. So after the festivities at Dads ("over the river & through the woods", or maybe more like "on the LIE and through the hood") I will look at that. But I do feel i need to reply to this.

Sorsha wrote: SVS- I am 50/50 with you right now. The following posts are something I did not expect from you. On one hand, if you are bad, I think you'd just leave me out to hang. If you are civvie I don't see you sticking your neck out for, what some might consider, a defense.

S~V~S wrote:I will say that Sorsha tends to play a blendy early game whether civ or bad, so of the two, I would lean more towards DP. When he is civ and has no idea whats going on, he will post a vote for someone with no votes before latching onto a bandwagon, especially if it is already decided.

I have to reread from when i went to work ( Christmas party was awesome, got lots of fun stuff from bosses & coworkers and an awesome lunch of linguini with clam sauce from my favorite italian place, so I am happy and ready to mafia )

S~V~S wrote:"Block" was the wrong word, I meant voting together as a group~

I have played Mafia with Sorsha a long time. At the time we played across 4 sites, LP, RM, TP, & HV, we both played all of those sites. Sorsha does not do scummy things in the thread when she is bad in general. She is a very careful player. She starts out slow most games and blossoms later on, good or bad. I think her posts recently seemed like frustration at some thread shenanigans.

Two things about these posts, I am sorry you think i would not defend you (we have had issues between us in the past for a very, very ridiculous reason, super ridiculous, and i am sure you agree. That is long gone, and the last person to carry that crap around is me), plus I will defend a person if i feel things being said about someone in thread are wrong. We also had a noob specifically ask about you, and I think I know your gameplay better than most.

S~V~S wrote:That is long gone, and the last person to carry that crap around is me[/ot]), plus I will defend a person if i feel things being said about someone in thread are wrong.

Thanks!

@SVS: :politegiggle:

@MP: This argument is a giant, "NO!" "YES!!!" argument. Which inclines me to think that it's probably civ on civ. I will always have my eye on you, though. You're wrong about me and there's no point to another giant post. I just fundamentally disagree with you on the facts.

But, MP, I was not offended by the use of the word antagonizing. Not at all. I was saying that isn't what was going on. MP, I play a very question heavy game, and you know that. I typically grill players. So, why are you surprised I'm asking Epig questions?

Dom wrote: @MP: This argument is a giant, "NO!" "YES!!!" argument.

DID SOMEONE SAY "NO! YES!!!"????

what did i just do???

Dom wrote:what did i just do???

What? It came up organically.

Lizzy wrote:I believe FZ was a player offed by an indie SK. That being said she seemed fairly civ-ish to me.

Gotcha (in spite of my night post memory fail ). I was more interested in if you had quoted those 3 posts out of suspicion of all 3 players. Perhaps I should have worded my question differently.

Epignosis wrote: acescent votograph cannot lynch civilians by myself.

I understand, but I was responding to your exact words about keeping a civ-lynch tally; I certainly did not suggest you were working alone to lynch civs.

@MP: I understand your case perfectly fine, I just think it's civ on civ. I gave my reasons why.

Sorsha wrote: k4j- You find me suspicious for various reasons my Vomps vote, my day one "I am a civvie" comment and general laying low quiet behavior but at the simplest explaination from me you say "ok." Like, thats it? All I have to say is "This is how I always am" and its all good? You are another like MP who keeps tossing my name around (from day 1... or day zero even) but aren't really committing to it. Like keeping me on the back burner to bring up as soon as someone gets the Sorsha ball rolling at some point.

It seems to me like you're just being defensive.
You can say that I am just tossing your name around and not committing or you can understand that I am looking for the scum and think you're a possibility but am unsure enough to commit. Do you really think I am going to lynch someone I have never played for because of the "I am civvie" comment? I don't know that I suspected you for lying low, but if I did it isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Yeah, I found your vote suspicious but I am willing to give your more time, if that is how you play then I will go along and see more from you. You say I said "Ok" like I completely accepted you as civvie when that's not the case. I don't even know in which instance I only said "ok", but if I said that I don't regret it or anything and I definitely don't think it's scummy of me. I think you're reaching and possibly out of a townies defensive emotion, IDK but I fail to see how I am suspicious for these reasons.

Rest in peace FZ and Vomp. Hope your other Christmas gifts were better.

Mister Rearranger wrote: K4J - Initially, I shared Epi's "cold read" on you. I have since backed off a bit. However, I do have this inkling feeling in my head that you and him are teammates and running an absolutely wacky baddie game right now . All the more reason I'm ok with an Epi lynch today, tbh.

Well we're not teammates. Nothing else I can say since you really give me nothing to address.

Which is worse: being killed on Christmas or your birthday?

Dom wrote:Which is worse: being killed on Christmas or your birthday?

I'd say being killed via lynch switch literally minutes before you'd have become a member of three factions (while only loyal to the baddies) after more than a week of convincing your civ btsc partners you're totally innocent and giving all their secrets to the baddies who recruited you takes the cake Not that I'm still depressed about that. Does suck for Vomp though, killed twice in a day. I had good feelings about FZ too.

Lizzy wrote: 3. This:

Loulou26 wrote:Okay I'm voting Lizzy. I don't like the fact that she has voted Bull when I think out of everyone he's the most civvie right now because of all the analysing he's doing.

this:

FZ. wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Bullzeye - Firmly leaning civvie - Has been posting with frequency and insight that I would expect from him. Can be a really tricksy baddie, but I don't have any reason to believe he's doing that here. Seems reasonable and I believe he is genuinely civvie-minded.

might be the person I feel is most civvie. He's posts come off as genuine, I like the way he's thinking most of the time, and even when I don't agree with his suspicions, I get where they are coming from

and this:

Mister Rearranger wrote: Bullz - I've felt strong about Bullz all game. Copacetic readthrough and has shared a lot of my own opinions without piggybacking on them (ie: voicing them without me mentioning them first in thread). One of my best civ feelings, at this point.

... make me feel even more confident about my vote for teh Bullzer

I was going to make a comment about this but I then realised I don't actually know why it surprised me. I am kinda surprised by how many people seem to be seeing me as a civ this game. I don't think I've ever had this much trust before.

MovingPictures07 wrote: First off, RIPIYWG Vomps and FZ. I was really enjoying playing with you, FZ, so regardless of your alignment, sad to see you go. Vomps is a REALLY weird kill... someone obviously just wanted him out of the game.

It does strike me as odd that someone would go after Vomp of all people. I wouldn't really have described him as a threat to the baddies.

S~V~S wrote: And looking back, if i recall correctly, this is only the 2nd insanification of the game? And the civ insanifies 3rd night? So is Roddy gone, or is Roddy missing PMs? Or is it just a coincidence?

Do we know if baddies can send group PMs? If they can, it's more likely Roddy is dead than AWOL, right? Or he was blocked, or targeted someone who died.

DFaraday wrote: DID SOMEONE SAY "NO! YES!!!"????

Mah boy D. Bryan! (I miss Booker on commentary). Seeing those gifs made me even more sure that Bryan needs a haircut and a shave before I can continue to take him seriously. He looks like a crazy old hermit right now.

RIP Vomps. I actually had good feelings about you for once. (I don't know if they were right, though :/)
RIPIYWG FZ: I had no read on you at all...

@MP: The sarcastic orange comment of mine was in response to Epi's comment that I'm basically going to kiss everyone's ass by the end of the game (this is in my own words of course). I was meerly suggesting that you would be my next ass-kissing victim. But don't get too excited about it

I'm still leaning Epignosis and SVS today. I will likely vote SVS as Epi will not be able to give me cocky responses in his current condition... That is not to say that he won't try

I don't have the time nor the energy to catch up with everything that has been said recently and give a long drawn-out post listing my reasons for voting for SVS. But I will say that she has been a bull (this is to mean a large intimidating force, not stupid and narrow-minded. SVS is quite the opposite ) charging at my red cape since Day 1, only taking the time to trample the poor defensless mongoose that was thrown out in front of her by Epignosis (just like the rest of us did). But I'm still not clear on what about my CBK vote pinged you so much, SVS. I was really upset by your response, as well as Dom's and MP's, because I thought I was giving a legitimate and sensible reason for voting her. After voting for her I noticed that MR did the same thing she did, but gave a more drawn out reason for doing so. If I had noticed his post before voting, my vote would have gone to him instead. But I would have still suspected them of being teammates.

This ended up being more drawn out than I intended

Is it just my paranoia or is anyone else starting to feel very wary of players continuing to look at Epig and S~V~S (and the occasional me and K4J) and absolutely NO ONE ELSE even though it's Day 4? Yes, let's antagonize the players that are contributing the most for incredibly weak reasons and ignore the points brought up against others. I just don't get it. There's PLENTY of players to talk about.

Sorsha wrote:Ok here is who I am looking at the closest here.

MP- Your original post about how my "I'm civve" post was strange, or wasn't strange. It's kinda hard to tell what you think based on the post because it can go either way.

MovingPictures07 wrote:For the record, K4J, I agree with you regarding Sorsha's post; it seemed unnecessary to me, as if she's trying too hard. BUT I have heard of games where those types of statements were "checkable", so maybe it's possible. Seems rarer to me though and kind of pointless, but I suppose her post could be completely legit. I don't THINK I've ever played one where statements that blatant were checkable by a lie detector role though.

Consequently, I'm not sure her post really means anything at all. I don't think it really tells me anything, especially this early in the game. But, out of curiosity, do others agree here with my assessment and was anyone else wildly pinged by that statement?

When I first read it I thought you agreed that I was suspicious. Then someone called you on it and you backed off saying you meant that I wasn't suspicious for it.
I have played quite a few games with you and can not remember you brining me up like this or agreeing with someone on something like this about me ever. Its possible that you HAVE but it has been so infrequent that I can't think of a time it has ever happened. Your subsequent posts about me have had the same flip floppiness. From the post above to now I feel like you are just waiting for someone to solidly say "I am voting for Sorsha" so that you can be like "Yeah, me too."

...

So I'd say for now MP and k4j are my 1 and 2. SVS I am just watching, I think she can read my civvie game pretty well, she has in the past anyway, so I think after another day or two she will be able to see my civviness.... and if not then I think she'd be more of a concern.

I don't know when I'll be able to have time to go over more of my smaller suspicions, with the holiday and all, but these were the easiest for me to address first.

I've addressed this before, but I elaborated in a post directly thereafter the one you quote above saying that I thought your statement was incredibly ODD, not suspicious. Just because it really caught my attention (was pinged) doesn't mean I thought it necessarily told me anything about your alignment, and after I thought about it for a few seconds, I realized it did not.

I'm not sure how I can address the "flip floppy"-ness; I just honestly have no idea about your alignment, and still don't, to be frank. If you'll look at my other posts, you'll see it's actually quite unlikely I would vote for you, and your accusation is a bit absurd considering I EASILY had the chance to say "Yeah, me too" just the other day, but instead I voted for Russ, because I felt there was something there.

Dom wrote:@SVS: :politegiggle:

@MP: This argument is a giant, "NO!" "YES!!!" argument. Which inclines me to think that it's probably civ on civ. I will always have my eye on you, though. You're wrong about me and there's no point to another giant post. I just fundamentally disagree with you on the facts.

But, MP, I was not offended by the use of the word antagonizing. Not at all. I was saying that isn't what was going on. MP, I play a very question heavy game, and you know that. I typically grill players. So, why are you surprised I'm asking Epig questions?

Lol, touche, perhaps it is. I just don't understand (in combination with the sentiment at the top of my post, which perhaps is coloring my evaluation of your actions) how you feel so strongly about Epig and S~V~S because your suspicions are easily debunked or don't seem that strong to me at all, and yes I know you grill players all the time, but your gameplay has been focused almost solely on Epig and you haven't really grilled anyone else. It's not that I'm surprised you're asking Epig questions (in fact, I'm not at all, Epig makes himself an easy target for attention), it's that I'm surprised it's now Day 4 and you have two main suspicions which really are pretty weak, and you've hardly discussed anyone else.

Devin the Omniscient wrote:RIP Vomps. I actually had good feelings about you for once. (I don't know if they were right, though :/)
RIPIYWG FZ: I had no read on you at all...

@MP: The sarcastic orange comment of mine was in response to Epi's comment that I'm basically going to kiss everyone's ass by the end of the game (this is in my own words of course). I was meerly suggesting that you would be my next ass-kissing victim. But don't get too excited about it

I'm still leaning Epignosis and SVS today. I will likely vote SVS as Epi will not be able to give me cocky responses in his current condition... That is not to say that he won't try

I don't have the time nor the energy to catch up with everything that has been said recently and give a long drawn-out post listing my reasons for voting for SVS. But I will say that she has been a bull (this is to mean a large intimidating force, not stupid and narrow-minded. SVS is quite the opposite ) charging at my red cape since Day 1, only taking the time to trample the poor defensless mongoose that was thrown out in front of her by Epignosis (just like the rest of us did). But I'm still not clear on what about my CBK vote pinged you so much, SVS. I was really upset by your response, as well as Dom's and MP's, because I thought I was giving a legitimate and sensible reason for voting her. After voting for her I noticed that MR did the same thing she did, but gave a more drawn out reason for doing so. If I had noticed his post before voting, my vote would have gone to him instead. But I would have still suspected them of being teammates.

This ended up being more drawn out than I intended

Oh, LOL, got it re: the sarcastic comment.

How does that make S~V~S bad?

Am I missing something here? At least I recognized that most of my previous suspicions were all based on mere interpretations of someone's actions.

I'm frankly still convinced Dom is likely baddie, even though a couple of others said they are reading it as civ on civ. Well, I'm not, and I would vote but I still don't feel I've received enough commentary (likely due to the holidays) on him or other suspicions/individuals. BUT

However, I do also recognize there are others who are acting in probably just as suspicious of a fashion as him, but I've been writing off considering them for a vote due to conceived notions of their sincerity or due to comparisons of past games.

I'm thus beginning to become convinced I should just throw away pre-conceived notions of how certain players act because it's clear to me Sorsha, Bass, and Devin have been acting in most a suspicious manner, especially considering it's Day 4. Yes, they've acted "this way" in other games before but how meaningful is that when someone can obviously make a conscious effort to model their gameplay in this game after previous games in which they were civvie? Especially Devin who can't be bothered to think for himself this game, voting for Mongoose because Epig's case was strong (which it WASN'T), then turning back on Epig and S~V~S, with no other content. Yes, he's busy, and yes Russ did near this same exact thing and he was civvie, so what does that mean?

Additionally, you've got DP who has barely shown at all and when he did show he just "followed" a bandwagon which still bugs me to be frank but I'm not sure how comfortable I feel in that.

Elohcin who also has arguably acted suspiciously but has Epig's backing and has acted in a seemingly suspicious way countless times while being a civvie.

Zany Dex who is all but zany this game and completely silent (but this has happened before).

And Lou and Lizzy who I'm not sure I can trust at all but haven't gone back to read their posts yet (now that FZ. is dead and I have some more time today, that will be next on my list).

INSTEAD players just pop in and voice an often very weak suspicion of Epig, me, or S~V~S because why not? We've played outstanding baddie games before, we're actually trying to contribute as much as possible (this could be construed as 'controlling' or 'manipulating' the thread), and we always make ourselves incredibly easy targets for suspicion because of how much we put ourselves out there.

Not one person has given me a satisfactory reason for even suspecting Epig, myself, or S~V~S -- Epig "led" two lynches on civilians, well, at least he's TRYING, and I honestly firmly believe if he were bad he would make way more of an effort to appear 'right', even throwing his own teammate under the bus if he had to in order to accomplish that; not to mention he's incredibly aggressive in every game I see him in, or at least most of them, and the difference between his civvie game and his baddie game is that his civvie one is incredibly brutally honest, a trait of his I am reading here, and even if you don't read it, the fact that people are focusing solely on him is absurd -- AND then there's Sorsha's "suspicion" of me which apparently is stemmed by an interpretation of my actions that I could throw her under suspicion at any moment, even though I've had plenty of opportunities to do that, and I HAVEN'T, and is such a ridiculous and baseless suspicion given it is so clearly dependent on a mere interpretation of posts I've made and only about ONE individual which is the person that suspects me -- AND then there's the suspicion against S~V~S which I will admit I even had a hand in but now I realize how insanely ridiculous it was, based entirely on interpretations of her being "too agreeable" or too manipulative. Yes, she had a hand in the Mongoose suspicion but so have others, and yet... these people who suspect S~V~S clearly don't suspect any of the others.

I suppose I just don't understand. It's Day 4, we have plenty to talk about, and yet I feel most players are operating as of it is still Day 1. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

Now considering FZ.'s death, I will say based on what I DID re-read of her and her actions up until her death, I still wasn't sure about her. Would have loved to have trusted her especially because we saw eye to eye so much, but honestly had no idea as to her alignment. So now it's time to re-read Lizzy, then Lou. Posts forthcoming, if anything interesting shows up.

conceivable khansaman hysterical fiord.

I may vote for someone out of equivalence redolent.

So Lizzy's posts are few in number... Might as well recap them as I did Dom's.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 194#p44194 Day 0 post, "trusts" Vomps (normal behavior).
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 199#p44199 More nonsensical posting.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 723#p44723 Her typical WIFOM
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 771#p44771 Seems torn on the issue of Mongoose... not sure what that means though as to Lizzy's alignment.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 163#p45163
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 163#p45164 Trying to figure out how it was discerned that AP specifically survived and not any of the others who were tied on D1.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 424#p45424 Says she'll be out of the country, just as in the other game. Now MR pointed this out originally, but I believe this still is a solid lead that no one has really pursued... She specifically finds a reason to vote Mongoose in this game, and she randomizes in the other.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 432#p45432 When confronted with that by MR, she says she did it "because I can". (Typical Lizzy WIFOM response)

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 436#p45436 She responds to my post expressing thoughts on her and wonders why I excluded indies (and that no one cares about them). This gave me a chuckle.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 438#p45438 More WIFOM

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 058#p46058 The beginning of her fixation on finding Bullz suspicious.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 061#p46061 Bullz addresses her points, but she retains her (likely) suspicion/vote.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 187#p46187 Votes Bullz
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 535#p46535 She seems to think the fact that Lou's vote for her, and mine, MR, and FZ's reads as Bullz as likely civvie further confirm that her Bullz suspicion is correct
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 539#p46539 Here she says FZ. seemed fairly civ-like.

But wait, didn't she just imply in the post before that her read of Bullz was good because of a few people (specifically MR, me, and FZ) read Bullz as civvie? Not sure I understand that. Lizzy, can you clarify this when you get a chance?

Consequently, my eye is solidly on Lizzy, BUT I'm still not feeling fully comfortable in a vote her way... is there anyone here who can actually read Lizzy? If you do exist and want to contribute your thoughts as to what this all means, that'd be great.

People pretend sanhedrim Merlin the Wizzard unvarying when bad.

Epignosis wrote:conceivable khansaman hysterical fiord.

Epignosis wrote:I may vote for someone out of equivalence redolent.

Dammit, man, I can't understand these at all. Except the "I may vote for someone out of..."

Out of what?

Lol I realize how ridiculous that wording sounds. I can't understand these at all except the main part of the sentence in your second post LOL