MAD MAX: GAME OVER

[Tangrowth]

JJJ for you to be alive after 2 night kills is meaningful. As the most vocal player in the game you would be killed more often than not if there wasn't something to be gained for not killing you.

Assuming you are not Mafia, what potential reasons can you see for you still being alive? In light of both our kills so far being quite unusual choices at face value.

FWIW I almost never killed nightkilled in years of playing around here despite being a typically heavy poster because it's much easier to get me mislynched. I think high posters are generally easier to get lynched on this site than lower posters, everything else being equal, but of course this depends on many circumstances. I just don't think anyone being alive right now is "meaningful".

[Sloonei]

Without commenting on the case, Sloonei's vote post on LoRab has me convinced I am wrong about him. That is very reflective of thoughtful civ analysis.

I think this marks the first moment in this game where Mac changed his mind about anything. Decent look.

[Tangrowth]

I'm still most confident about Elohcin, but I also do not like the way LoRab immediately tried to spin SVS's death into something involving Eloh. It seemed like an unnatural response to me. I'd probably put her back near the top of my suspects list again.

For someone who has played with LoRab since I started playing in 2010 (and she started before me), I'd say this is entirely typical behavior of LoRab. I'm not sure I'd say it's alignment indicative. I'd say she usually deals in NKA (nightkill analysis) more than others around here.

[Tangrowth]

For the sake of visual comparison, here are Elohcin's two most recent baddie games:

Transistor

Triskaidekaphobia

One parallel I'd draw from Transistor stems from Day 1 of that game. Zebra was deliberately behaving like a goofball, and she got mislynched for it. She was the standard example of an easy target, and Elohcin took advantage of that. In this game I think there's a similar appearance in her confusion/suspicion of my roleplay. Zebra wasn't actually suspicious at all in that game, and I don't think I was on Day 1 of this one either. I guess what I'm saying is she took Zebra's bait in that game and she may have also taken my bait in this one.

I would agree with this assessment. If I ask myself honestly what explanation of Elo's suspicion of you seems more likely, I'd bet on her trying to take advantage of an easy target nefariously than genuinely finding you suspicious and then suddenly changing her mind and backtracking.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

In an attempt to better organize my thoughts about the game, I have split the 15 living players into three groups purely by post count. I will then make inferences about those groups.

Top five post count, not including me:

MovingPictures07
a2thezebra
Sloonei
MacDougall

If one of these people is bad, I think the most likely is Mac. I would rank the likelihood of the possible number of scum in this tier as follows: 1 = 0 > 2 > 3 > 4

Middle five post count:

insertnamehere
motel room
LoRab
Elohcin
sprityo

This looks like a potential hot bed to me. I've already stated some suspicions of Elohcin and sprityo. I have made a single positive assessment of motel room, but it's not the strongest thing and I wouldn't exonerate him right now. LoRab is a valid enough suspect even if my gut doesn't quite agree right now. INH is about the same thing -- he can be validly cased despite my gut uncertainty.

Same ranking: 2 > 3 > 1 > 4 > 0

Bottom five post count:

sanmateo / Quin
Dom
DrWilgy
Glorfindel
birdwithteeth11 / indiglo

I have liked Quin a lot since he came aboard. There's not much more he could do to show a pro-town mindset having replaced into a relatively large thread. Dom got off to a great start but has since tapered off. I think he looks like a townie at face value. DrWilgy is a prototype of himself, which is pretty null. Glorfindel has had understandably been unable to keep up with the game consistently; I do think though that he's more suspicious than most others. I'm not sure he's made the most of the opportunities he has had. indiglo hasn't been able to get involved yet, so that remains null.

Same ranking: 2 > 1 > 3 > 4 > 0

Jay, not trying to sound rude but not sure how else to word this: What precise purpose did this analysis serve? What did you take from it, rather?

[Tangrowth]

Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.

No offense taken. And please look at my posts. I think you will realize that it is just your predisposition.

I'm still most confident about Elohcin, but I also do not like the way LoRab immediately tried to spin SVS's death into something involving Eloh. It seemed like an unnatural response to me. I'd probably put her back near the top of my suspects list again.

It may be unnatural for you, but it was a natural response for me. I looked back at her posts after her death and Elo is one of the very few players she mentioned whose allignment we don't know (or can assume). You're the other one, but she seemed to mention Elo more. That combined with the night kill of Epi night 1, the connection got made in my mind. So I mentioned it. Either she's being framed, and I therefore want to think about what players would do that. Or she's bad and we therefore need to think about who else on a baddie team would make kills like that.

As to all who suspect me, I urge you to look at my posts. I'm civ. I'm trying my best and bringing things up as I see them. I still suspect INH. And I suspect Elo. My vote will likely be for one of those 2.

LoRab, forgive me if you've addressed this since or elsewhere and I haven't seen it, but do you have any other civilian or mafia reads (regardless of the intensity of your confidence in them) other than mafia reads of INH and Elo?

[Tangrowth]

The thing about Eloh being framed is that I don't think it needs to happen. I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that she is the closest we have to a consensus suspect. I can't imagine the scum team got together last night and said "what we need to do is incriminate Elohcin some more." She was already likely to be lynched soon regardless.
What would make more sense is that they wanted to get out ahead of her lynch and bus her, supposing she is indeed scum. I admit that this theory has influenced my feelings about LoRab today even though we can't be sure of Eloh's alignment yet.

Although I still don't find LoRab really suspicious at this time, I think this is a good point. I'd agree that I don't think the purpose of the n2 kill was primarily to frame Elo, even if Elo would have had personal incentive to kill her.

[Sloonei]

I would really love to hear what all of you think of thist post.

When I judge MP, I see a pile of little pings that continue to bug me, but that post is like running into a wall. I struggle to see a baddie in there. It looks to me like a gushing, spewing spicket of town. I am open to anyone disagreeing, I just need to see a reason.

I generally default to labeling emotional appeals as town behaviour until they've proven emotional appeals aren't off limits for them. An observation, hopefully it'll help you sort out your thoughts, is that what he's saying isn't strictly a defence for Ricochet the player in this game, it's more of a defence for him as a person.

I have made a point of noting MP has no qualms appealing to his own personal situations as defense when Mafia.

Actually that's true. I made the mistake of thinking otherwise in RotTK.

I think what I liked so much about that post was that, one it largely reflected my own perspective of Ricochet and represented the town-inclined angle that I felt Rico's opposition wasn't considering. He spelled it out in plain language better than I had been doing previously in my own frustrated, volatile arguments. I might have given him too much credit for the emotion infused in the post though. I have a personal rule that I refuse to employ any emotional appeals as a bad guy (I think it's unsportsmanlike, but that's just me). MP's emotion was clearly visible in RotTK when he was bad, so that's something I'll reconsider.

Apart from that post, the thing preventing me from scum reading MP is Elohcin. I don't think they fit together as team mates very well, and I suspect Elohcin a lot more than him.

Is your suspicion of Elohcin really so strong that you can't suspect another supposedly incompatible player, even when you don't actually know Eloh's role?

[Tangrowth]

It's been a long day for Neil Hartley, and I'm going to have to take the rest of evening off. I wouldn't leave you without a parting tune though, and a few friends of mine you may have heard before will be joining me for something special. Hit it Charlie!

I missed these.

[Sloonei]

Elohcin, Glorfindel, sprityo, indiglo

The four quietest people in the game are scum?

[DrWilgy]

It's been a long day for Neil Hartley, and I'm going to have to take the rest of evening off. I wouldn't leave you without a parting tune though, and a few friends of mine you may have heard before will be joining me for something special. Hit it Charlie!

I missed these.

I miss you

[Tangrowth]

I'll be upgrading Quin to a town read, I know that much.

[Tangrowth]

It's been a long day for Neil Hartley, and I'm going to have to take the rest of evening off. I wouldn't leave you without a parting tune though, and a few friends of mine you may have heard before will be joining me for something special. Hit it Charlie!

I missed these.

I miss you

Awww you2 baby

Lol. Seriously though, we need to meet up again soon.

[Tangrowth]

Sloonei, are you in the midst of catching up as well?

[Quin]

Heyyy the famous quin from PWYW is here

hey buddy wazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzup

[Quin]

I'll be upgrading Quin to a town read, I know that much.

That's nice, want to talk about it?

[Tangrowth]

I had just put my vote on Elohcin, but in the time between submitting the vote and typing up a post to announce it, I changed my mind and moved it to LoRab. Here's why:

Svs strikes me as an off target for a kill. She didn't have a lot of posts (for her). And didn't seem to have any extraordinary opinions that would warrant a kill. She did have some points against mac (particularly that either rico or him was likely mafia) and points against elo. The question is if there is framing going on or if one of them is bad. This definitely makes elo look more suspish in my book. The question I have is if she's being framed; but would mafia use their first two kills in order to frame someone? I'm undecided on that question.

This post set off some red flags right away when LoRab made it, but I've had trouble figuring out why. SVS being killed purely to frame Elohcin is a somewhat plausible theory, sure, but I hardly think it's the most apparent motive for knocking off SVS. So I found it odd that anyone would immediately draw such a conclusion.

This was LoRab's first post after the night kill. It came not too long after G-man's post and it was the first theory anyone offered about the kill. It struck me as a very oddball initial reaction to the nightkill. It's something could plausibly been arrived at, but as a the first read anyone came up with or shared in the thread, it seemed like an unnatural conclusion to me. It ignored too many other possibilities for my liking and focused on one element, and it struck me as a deliberate effort to push Elohcin's name into the forefront without directly applying pressure. Notice the way LoRab waffles at the end, not offering any definitive thoughts on which side of the fence she's on; "I'm undecided on that question." This made it look like a very opportunistic push against a player who was already on the chopping block entering the day. Eloh's lynch was not a sure thing, but, like I said earlier, she's the closest we've got to a consensus, so it would make sense for the mafia to want to push against her to start the day off. This post suddenly looks way too opportunistic to be genuine to be.

Then I was curious, so I looked back through LoRab's post to trace her own suspicion against Elohcin and it amounts to this post:

I have a weak ping from Dom for accusing MP of buttering up (I think Sloonei mentioned this before...someone did...I noticed it, as wel) because of his place on a rainbow list. It struck me as paranoid, and I think Dom's game is more paranoid as baddie than it is as civ.

Elo isn't sitting right. I don't have any good reason for this one, really just gut and tone.

Those are the 2 that keep popping up. There are also a bunch of players that I don't know well enough to know how to read their posts, so there are a lot of question marks on my imaginary spreadsheet.

Prior to today, LoRab had expressed nothing but the vaguest possible "scum read" on Elohcin. This looks like an easy hop-on to an easy bandwagon with no real commitment to me. LoRab had mentioned Eloh in a few posts prior to this, but never in such a way that she's offering a read. So she was essentially silent on Eloh entering today, but then her immediate response to a seemingly unconnected nightkill was to come in waving Elohcin's name around like some great big shady figure that needed to be dealt with. I've not been crazy of her responses to my follow up questions today either but it's late and I don't need to get into that.

So my vote's on LoRab.

This is a compelling perspective, I must admit. I am second guessing my read of LoRab just a bit, even if I am not willing to commit. I still am not coming to the same conclusion as you regarding LoRab's NKA; it seems believable to me and I can't draw alignment inferences from that. The opportunistic treatment of Elo is something that I can see, though it depends on Elo's alignment.

What I see as most possible of LoRab's behavior is that she could be Elo's teammate, if Elo comes back bad, and wanted to try to get ahead of the suspicion for civilian credit. I don't want to get too ahead of the game though, and my perspective is inevitably influenced by my strong mafia read of Elo, but that's my take on it.

[Tangrowth]

I'll be upgrading Quin to a town read, I know that much.

That's nice, want to talk about it?

Gladly, just give me a little bit here to try and finish catching up before the deadline. I still need to mull over your behavior and figure out where exactly on the rainbow you'll be going. I just feel confident you'll be green of same shade, at that moment anyway. You're hunting, you're poking, you're asking the right questions. I like it.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

In an attempt to better organize my thoughts about the game, I have split the 15 living players into three groups purely by post count. I will then make inferences about those groups.

Top five post count, not including me:

MovingPictures07
a2thezebra
Sloonei
MacDougall

If one of these people is bad, I think the most likely is Mac. I would rank the likelihood of the possible number of scum in this tier as follows: 1 = 0 > 2 > 3 > 4

Middle five post count:

insertnamehere
motel room
LoRab
Elohcin
sprityo

This looks like a potential hot bed to me. I've already stated some suspicions of Elohcin and sprityo. I have made a single positive assessment of motel room, but it's not the strongest thing and I wouldn't exonerate him right now. LoRab is a valid enough suspect even if my gut doesn't quite agree right now. INH is about the same thing -- he can be validly cased despite my gut uncertainty.

Same ranking: 2 > 3 > 1 > 4 > 0

Bottom five post count:

sanmateo / Quin
Dom
DrWilgy
Glorfindel
birdwithteeth11 / indiglo

I have liked Quin a lot since he came aboard. There's not much more he could do to show a pro-town mindset having replaced into a relatively large thread. Dom got off to a great start but has since tapered off. I think he looks like a townie at face value. DrWilgy is a prototype of himself, which is pretty null. Glorfindel has had understandably been unable to keep up with the game consistently; I do think though that he's more suspicious than most others. I'm not sure he's made the most of the opportunities he has had. indiglo hasn't been able to get involved yet, so that remains null.

Same ranking: 2 > 1 > 3 > 4 > 0

Jay, not trying to sound rude but not sure how else to word this: What precise purpose did this analysis serve? What did you take from it, rather?

Ignore this question; I just saw this post.

[Quin]

What's the case against sprityo, folks?

[DrWilgy]

It's been a long day for Neil Hartley, and I'm going to have to take the rest of evening off. I wouldn't leave you without a parting tune though, and a few friends of mine you may have heard before will be joining me for something special. Hit it Charlie!

I missed these.

I miss you

Awww you2 baby

Lol. Seriously though, we need to meet up again soon.

Linki - we want a 3 some. Make it a fourway and vote MP or Zebra

[Quin]

It's been a long day for Neil Hartley, and I'm going to have to take the rest of evening off. I wouldn't leave you without a parting tune though, and a few friends of mine you may have heard before will be joining me for something special. Hit it Charlie!

I missed these.

I miss you

Awww you2 baby

Lol. Seriously though, we need to meet up again soon.

Linki - we want a 3 some. Make it a fourway and vote MP or Zebra

If I did that you wouldn't have a 3 way at all

Why MP or Zebra?

[Tangrowth]

What's the case against sprityo, folks?

If someone else doesn't answer you momentarily, let me see if I can find some links for you.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, are you in the midst of catching up as well?

I was. I just finished.

My vote is almost definitely staying on LoRab barring some crazy EoD shenanigans. I am not feeling as bad about Elohcin as I was previously, and my tunnel vision is focusing more and more on LoRab as the minutes go by. They are the only two I've committed enough time and energy on to comfortably offer a vote right now.

[DrWilgy]

It's been a long day for Neil Hartley, and I'm going to have to take the rest of evening off. I wouldn't leave you without a parting tune though, and a few friends of mine you may have heard before will be joining me for something special. Hit it Charlie!

I missed these.

I miss you

Awww you2 baby

Lol. Seriously though, we need to meet up again soon.

Linki - we want a 3 some. Make it a fourway and vote MP or Zebra

If I did that you wouldn't have a 3 way at all

Why MP or Zebra?

You are right... your vote has already been placed... My plan is ruined.

[Tangrowth]

Unless you are to elaborate you are saying my reaction to ricochet is manipulative? I have very little context further than that to help you see that I am not Mafia.

Sure.

Nearly everything you said about Ricochet on Day 2 was patently false. The subjective things you "read" about Rico's play was universally negative, like you had no interest at all in trying to see a possible townie in him. You painted an image of how he was playing this game which did not remotely align with how he was actually playing this game. You accused him of spending all of his focus on you (wrong), you gave his non-Mac-related content no chance whatsoever (tunneling at best, opportunism at worst). You literally said you weren't reading his posts after Zebra had previously suggested the possibility (I hesitate to believe you and think you could have been straw manning Ricochet on purpose).

You reduced his content into a much less valuable thing than it really was despite repeated insistence from Sloonei, MP, and I for you to look at his posts in a different light. It's classic discredit behavior. I'm left to decide whether you literally didn't read a thing he actually said on Day 2 and just gave him shit anyway, or you did read it and fed into the bad press he was getting by manipulating it into something it wasn't. The presence of INH and Zebra provided a great climate for that kind of manipulation, because they wanted to lynch him as much as you did.

Dude, he pissed me off. I have never been called for a policy lynch before. I wanted him to be bad to justify it. Sorry that I was wrong.

FWIW this reads genuine to me.

[Quin]

I guess I answered my own question. Is there anything beyond the fact that they have a vote that's bothering you, Wilgy?

[Sloonei]

Quin! Your vote's on Elohcin. Why do you hate my case against LoRab?

[DrWilgy]

I guess I answered my own question. Is there anything beyond the fact that they have a vote that's bothering you, Wilgy?

nah, ties are cool dude

[Sloonei]

I guess I answered my own question. Is there anything beyond the fact that they have a vote that's bothering you, Wilgy?

nah, ties are cool dude

You understand that a tie will result in a no lynch, right?

[Quin]

Quin! Your vote's on Elohcin. Why do you hate my case against LoRab?

I still see a train of thought that would bring him to see a second frame job as a possibility. That much of your case I hate. I don't hate the rest of it, but Eloh is still my biggest scum read.

[Tangrowth]

What I'd most like to see from you at this point, Elohcin, is reads. Hopefully you can catch up soon.

I am just now sitting down after church/grocery shopping/lunch. So, I am not caught up....just have a few pages. But...honestly, I hate giving reads. I don't like to make suspicions. ...because no matter how genuine a suspicion may be, I always get crap from the thread that I am just making it up and that I am bad. So....until day 4-5 (assuming I make it that far), I usually keep semi-quiet on how I feel about players. And....that is how I will play this game as well. I can be an asset to the civs if I make it far enough into the game, I promise. But right now...I choose to keep my reads to myself unless something REALLY crazy pops out to me. But even when I think something crazy pops out to me and I mention it, I can feel the eyes in the room rolling.

now to go read the thread...

So you're prioritizing your survival in a game towards helping to solve the game, if you are town.

I think some of this is potentially honest regardless of your alignment -- you hate giving reads, etc. I can believe that. So there's that.

What does everyone else think of this post?

[DrWilgy]

I guess I answered my own question. Is there anything beyond the fact that they have a vote that's bothering you, Wilgy?

nah, ties are cool dude

You understand that a tie will result in a no lynch, right?

oh...

ABORT MISSION!!! regardless I feel like this scenario has given us some useful data. Considering that everyone is dancing around the pizza regarding this tie and no one will drop a vote, I think we are on the right path.

[Sloonei]

Quin! Your vote's on Elohcin. Why do you hate my case against LoRab?

I still see a train of thought that would bring him to see a second frame job as a possibility. That much of your case I hate. I don't hate the rest of it, but Eloh is still my biggest scum read.

You've talked about it plenty, but I don't have time to read through all of your posts right now. What's the cliffnotes version of your case against Eloh?

[Sloonei]

I guess I answered my own question. Is there anything beyond the fact that they have a vote that's bothering you, Wilgy?

nah, ties are cool dude

You understand that a tie will result in a no lynch, right?

oh...

ABORT MISSION!!! regardless I feel like this scenario has given us some useful data. Considering that everyone is dancing around the pizza regarding this tie and no one will drop a vote, I think we are on the right path.

Who's doing the Pizza Dance, Wilgy?

[Tangrowth]

I am interested to see what Elo has to say.

I am placing a vote for spirityo.

Why are you placing a vote for Sprit? Just curious.

Also, in my defense, why would I kill Epi Night 1. Sure, this is a game and I keep my RL separate for purposes of the game. I am not going to stand by my love through thick and thin, Day and Night, teammates or not. I am not nuts. I can keep the game separate from my undying love for him in RL . But within my memory of games (which I admit isn't awesome) I've maybe killed Epi once, and I think it was late in the game when we were about to win. I think I have tried getting him lynched maybe once when I really thought he was bad, even though he wasn't. If there are other options available, I tend to try and let Epi live. Unless he is a real threat, I am not going to kill him. And in this game, he admitted that he had nothing on me. I wasn't worried about him. But...I guess I should have been. B/c apparently him voting for me made everyone squeemish. "Oh wow, Epi always reads Elo so well. He must know she is bad." yada yada yada. Makes me wonder if he had never voted me if anyone would be looking my way.

I like Sloonei's new take on the whole matter. Not only b/c it is better for me personally, but because it make sense. And I do think Lorab has been a sneaky sneak this game. I said as much yesterday or sometime.

I am not sure who I will vote yet. But I have to get my head out of mafia for a few hours.

You would kill Epi night 1 because he can read you. Also, "Unless he is a real threat, I am not going to kill him. And in this game, he admitted that he had nothing on me. I wasn't worried about him." sounds like there is something on you that he could have had. Why would you be worried about him having something on you if you're civ? Also, why does it matter if you weren't worried about him if you don't have a kill? This whole post makes me more suspicious of you.

Also, You did not say yesterday that I've been a sneaky sneak this game--only that you always read me as being sneaky and that you can't decide if you always read me this way or if you think I'm bad this game. I am not.

1. Who are you to tell me what I would do? I would not kill Epi Night 1 even if he could read me as well as he thinks he can. He is my husband. I know he enjoys mafia. I would never just kick him out b/c I am afraid he will read me one way or the other. That is just as absurd as keeping him around if I truly think he is bad.

2. There is ALWAYS something for someone to have on someone else in a game of Mafia. Whether that thing is true or not is another story. When Epi said he was going to vote me, I honestly took it as a joke. So much that I didn't even bother to go click on "view results" b/c I didn't think he actually did it.

3. It matters that I wasn't worried about him b/c... if I WERE bad and if I WERE worried about him, then I would have killed him. But, when neither of those things are in play....his kill cannot be blamed on me. So, I am telling you, you cannot blame ME for Epi's kill. That is why it matters.

4. Do I have to use the exact same word each time I talk? Am I an old robot? No, I can say sneak one day and sneaky-sneak another and it means the same thing.

I think your reaction post to mine sounds like a scared Lorab who has been found out.

To double down on my previously floated theory, this back and forth very much reads like potential distancing to me, as if Elo and LoRab already have reason to believe the other person is bad. Otherwise I don't see how they're coming to their reads.

[MacDougall]

Chaos reigns.

[MacDougall]

Honestly if spirityo or glorfy aren't up for being lynched I don't really feel strongly about LoRab or Elo cases so I am going to need some good summarisation to compel me one way or the other.

[DrWilgy]

I guess I answered my own question. Is there anything beyond the fact that they have a vote that's bothering you, Wilgy?

nah, ties are cool dude

You understand that a tie will result in a no lynch, right?

oh...

ABORT MISSION!!! regardless I feel like this scenario has given us some useful data. Considering that everyone is dancing around the pizza regarding this tie and no one will drop a vote, I think we are on the right path.

Who's doing the Pizza Dance, Wilgy?

The rude doods that wouldn't make it a foursome...

[Tangrowth]

Another quick catch up, but I'm done before the deadline.

Now to update my rainbow and vote before doing other things.

[indiglo]

Just swung in from on the road. I see a tie, and the idea that a tie will result in a no lynch. Should I break the tie? Please be aware I am not caught up, and feel terrible about that, and seeing the vote in such a situation. Is the tie intentional to not have a lynch?

I will check back in a few, I need to get my power cord anyway, my battery's about to die.

[MacDougall]

Just swung in from on the road. I see a tie, and the idea that a tie will result in a no lynch. Should I break the tie? Please be aware I am not caught up, and feel terrible about that, and seeing the vote in such a situation. Is the tie intentional to not have a lynch?

I will check back in a few, I need to get my power cord anyway, my battery's about to die.

Sure just don't vote for your scum teammate.

[Sloonei]

I guess I answered my own question. Is there anything beyond the fact that they have a vote that's bothering you, Wilgy?

nah, ties are cool dude

You understand that a tie will result in a no lynch, right?

oh...

ABORT MISSION!!! regardless I feel like this scenario has given us some useful data. Considering that everyone is dancing around the pizza regarding this tie and no one will drop a vote, I think we are on the right path.

Who's doing the Pizza Dance, Wilgy?

The rude doods that wouldn't make it a foursome...

I want names! Don't make me click back to the last page!

[Tangrowth]

Elohcin

Rainbow update upcoming.

[Sloonei]

I am interested to see what Elo has to say.

I am placing a vote for spirityo.

Why are you placing a vote for Sprit? Just curious.

Also, in my defense, why would I kill Epi Night 1. Sure, this is a game and I keep my RL separate for purposes of the game. I am not going to stand by my love through thick and thin, Day and Night, teammates or not. I am not nuts. I can keep the game separate from my undying love for him in RL . But within my memory of games (which I admit isn't awesome) I've maybe killed Epi once, and I think it was late in the game when we were about to win. I think I have tried getting him lynched maybe once when I really thought he was bad, even though he wasn't. If there are other options available, I tend to try and let Epi live. Unless he is a real threat, I am not going to kill him. And in this game, he admitted that he had nothing on me. I wasn't worried about him. But...I guess I should have been. B/c apparently him voting for me made everyone squeemish. "Oh wow, Epi always reads Elo so well. He must know she is bad." yada yada yada. Makes me wonder if he had never voted me if anyone would be looking my way.

I like Sloonei's new take on the whole matter. Not only b/c it is better for me personally, but because it make sense. And I do think Lorab has been a sneaky sneak this game. I said as much yesterday or sometime.

I am not sure who I will vote yet. But I have to get my head out of mafia for a few hours.

You would kill Epi night 1 because he can read you. Also, "Unless he is a real threat, I am not going to kill him. And in this game, he admitted that he had nothing on me. I wasn't worried about him." sounds like there is something on you that he could have had. Why would you be worried about him having something on you if you're civ? Also, why does it matter if you weren't worried about him if you don't have a kill? This whole post makes me more suspicious of you.

Also, You did not say yesterday that I've been a sneaky sneak this game--only that you always read me as being sneaky and that you can't decide if you always read me this way or if you think I'm bad this game. I am not.

1. Who are you to tell me what I would do? I would not kill Epi Night 1 even if he could read me as well as he thinks he can. He is my husband. I know he enjoys mafia. I would never just kick him out b/c I am afraid he will read me one way or the other. That is just as absurd as keeping him around if I truly think he is bad.

2. There is ALWAYS something for someone to have on someone else in a game of Mafia. Whether that thing is true or not is another story. When Epi said he was going to vote me, I honestly took it as a joke. So much that I didn't even bother to go click on "view results" b/c I didn't think he actually did it.

3. It matters that I wasn't worried about him b/c... if I WERE bad and if I WERE worried about him, then I would have killed him. But, when neither of those things are in play....his kill cannot be blamed on me. So, I am telling you, you cannot blame ME for Epi's kill. That is why it matters.

4. Do I have to use the exact same word each time I talk? Am I an old robot? No, I can say sneak one day and sneaky-sneak another and it means the same thing.

I think your reaction post to mine sounds like a scared Lorab who has been found out.

To double down on my previously floated theory, this back and forth very much reads like potential distancing to me, as if Elo and LoRab already have reason to believe the other person is bad. Otherwise I don't see how they're coming to their reads.

If LoRab is lynched and flips bad, my biggest headache will be trying to figure out what to think about Elohcin. I'm currently more inclined to read her as town than I was before, but that doesn't necessarily make her a town read.

[Quin]

Quin! Your vote's on Elohcin. Why do you hate my case against LoRab?

I still see a train of thought that would bring him to see a second frame job as a possibility. That much of your case I hate. I don't hate the rest of it, but Eloh is still my biggest scum read.

You've talked about it plenty, but I don't have time to read through all of your posts right now. What's the cliffnotes version of your case against Eloh?

Eloh started the day claiming that she found 3J's roleplay suspicious, and much later claimed that it was all in an attempt to provoke a response. The dialogue that she and 3J had after the initial accusation didn't reflect that at all, instead on a few occasions she was the one defending herself against him. You can see MP's big batch of spoiler posts for those. I also pointed out that her vote wasn't appropriate for self-preservation because her options were between Mac or an inactive BWT. A Mac vote was more likely to take off given the circumstances, so seeing her vote for the latter is still slightly haunting.

[Quin]

linki for days, this is what I replaced in expecting

[DrWilgy]

I guess I answered my own question. Is there anything beyond the fact that they have a vote that's bothering you, Wilgy?

nah, ties are cool dude

You understand that a tie will result in a no lynch, right?

oh...

ABORT MISSION!!! regardless I feel like this scenario has given us some useful data. Considering that everyone is dancing around the pizza regarding this tie and no one will drop a vote, I think we are on the right path.

Who's doing the Pizza Dance, Wilgy?

The rude doods that wouldn't make it a foursome...

I want names! Don't make me click back to the last page!

Everyone but motel room!!

[Sloonei]

Quin! Your vote's on Elohcin. Why do you hate my case against LoRab?

I still see a train of thought that would bring him to see a second frame job as a possibility. That much of your case I hate. I don't hate the rest of it, but Eloh is still my biggest scum read.

You've talked about it plenty, but I don't have time to read through all of your posts right now. What's the cliffnotes version of your case against Eloh?

Eloh started the day claiming that she found 3J's roleplay suspicious, and much later claimed that it was all in an attempt to provoke a response. The dialogue that she and 3J had after the initial accusation didn't reflect that at all, instead on a few occasions she was the one defending herself against him. You can see MP's big batch of spoiler posts for those. I also pointed out that her vote wasn't appropriate for self-preservation because her options were between Mac or an inactive BWT. A Mac vote was more likely to take off given the circumstances, so seeing her vote for the latter is still slightly haunting.

Is your last point that you don't think her Day 1 "self-preservation" vote was an earnest attempt at self-preservation? If that is the case, why would that reflect poorly on her?

[Sloonei]

Elohcin

Rainbow update upcoming.

What was your thought process in deciding this vote?