The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote:You like him because he is town reading you.

You're only saying that because you're scumreading her.

Snow Dog wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:

I have four votes for no good reason that I saw. I said my defense. It did nothing. I'm rather annoyed that it happened this way, actually. However, I see no reason to react ridiculously, as it changes nothing.

If I am right and you are civ, I fear that the mafia has a good grip on this game. I wanted to say something els and completely forgotten it.

I agree. Who are your other suspects? What are we going to do to absolutely ruin their position?

I don't know. Lynches are strange. From nowhere it seems a lynch train appears and previous suspects are forgotten. Maybe we need to go back to the beginning. It is possible that one civ (threepwood) already knows for certain who some civs are. Unless of course Threepwood is a low poster.

I agree that this game feels weird since we probably have all the tools to win but can't properly use them (info-dumping), and people not flipping when they are nightkilled unusual to me in a multifaction game; we currently have no idea how many scum we are actually dealing with or how many of our strong PRs are dead which kind of kills all point of having a POE (since no way to check on how well we're doing). I thought when Golden died that the cannibals killed him and not having a body was part of their kill method (ala Donner's Party), but feeling a bit overwhelmed since that isn't the case.

Ninja, you fooled me. Glad to see you go.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:

I have four votes for no good reason that I saw. I said my defense. It did nothing. I'm rather annoyed that it happened this way, actually. However, I see no reason to react ridiculously, as it changes nothing.

If I am right and you are civ, I fear that the mafia has a good grip on this game. I wanted to say something els and completely forgotten it.

I agree. Who are your other suspects? What are we going to do to absolutely ruin their position?

I don't know. Lynches are strange. From nowhere it seems a lynch train appears and previous suspects are forgotten. Maybe we need to go back to the beginning. It is possible that one civ (threepwood) already knows for certain who some civs are. Unless of course Threepwood is a low poster.

I agree that this game feels weird since we probably have all the tools to win but can't properly use them (info-dumping), and people not flipping when they are nightkilled unusual to me in a multifaction game; we currently have no idea how many scum we are actually dealing with or how many of our strong PRs are dead which kind of kills all point of having a POE (since no way to check on how well we're doing). I thought when Golden died that the cannibals killed him and not having a body was part of their kill method (ala Donner's Party), but feeling a bit overwhelmed since that isn't the case.

At least a cannibal went down this time. Well done to everyone who voted her to Epi who started it all.

*and to Epi who started it all

OKAY so just checking in real quick here, but YAY results!

I think it is unlikely that any cannibals voted for Nijju today and I think it is very important we look back over Epi's posts and see who he was suspicious of.

At this point Zebra is almost 100% a civ. She was the second wagon to the BK vote and the Nijju vote both of whom have flipped bad. So I think we should look at who was pushing the zebra wagon and defending Nijju to attempt and see who her teammates are.

So a quick thing here.

Day 2

a2thezebra
3
Long Con (12), nijuukyugou (14), Snow Dog (15) 18%
Black Rock
5
Epignosis (4),Metalmarsh89 (5), DFaraday (10), Scotty (11), DrWilgy (17) 29%
Boomslang
Dr. Wilgy
1
Boomslang (13) 6%
Elohcin
0
No votes
Epignosis
1
Soneji (8) 6%
Sig
3
motel room (6), Quin (7), MovingPictures07 (16) 18%
Snow Dog
1
a2thezebra (3) 6%
Soneji


So Day 2 Longcon, Nijju, and Snow all voted for Zebra agaisnt the BK wagon.
While MP, Quin, and motel room (2.0) voted for me.
Epi, MM, DF, Scotty, and Wilgy voted for BK.

Epi is a civ, but he is also dead. DF is dead as well.

On my wagon only Motel room 2.0 is still alive, I believe at this point MP is a civ, but am still not convinced on Quin.
The biggest thing to get out of this is zebra, while we do see different teams lynched each time, I wouldn't be surprised if someone on her wagon is mafia.

I don't have much time so I'm going to skip day 3.

Day 4



a2thezebra
3
Long Con (8), nijuukyugou (11), Snow Dog (13) 19%

We see niju vote for zebra no surprise, but also LC and Snow

Nijuukyugou
4
Metalmarsh89 (3), Vompatti (12), DrWilgy (15), sig (16) 25%

These four voted for Niju.

I would say, unless zebra is somehow also a cannibal this makes it less likely that anyone on Nijus wagon is a cannibal, which doesn't clear us them as mafia.

I'm feeling really pingy about LC and Soneji post lynch. LC seems to have been trying to lynch Zebra for awhile, since she is a low hanging fruit which is something he does alot as mafia. He has also been posting less and his post about not killing active players was odd.
Soneji vote was way left field and seemed to be done to avoid either wagon which is pingy espacilly if he is on one team and unsure if Niju/zebra is mafia for the other team.

So I'll be looking into them more and would like everyone's opinion on these two players.

i'm cool w/long con
if you vote soneji tomorrow i won't vote you

MacDougall wrote:You like him because he is town reading you.

I mean, that certainly doesn't hurt.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:You like him because he is town reading you.

You're only saying that because you're scumreading her.

bingo

Nachomamma8 wrote:i'm cool w/long con
if you vote soneji tomorrow i won't vote you

Both do seem like they could be mafia, also something did just occur to me so BK submitted kills for the pirates they picked up and started killing after she dies, so I could see the second pirate being active and helping to lynch BK to get civ points and allow for them to kill.

I also want to look at Snowdog for the role he played in trying to lynch Zebra.

What do you think of Mac, nacho?

@Sonjie/LC Could you give me a rainbow list (or something like it) of your current reads?

Snow Dog wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:If Niju flips bad, let's lynch Snow Dog.

Yes, let's.

linki - Ya did it Wilgy, prouda you

Im here. Catching up at work and here soon too.

sig wrote:LC seems to have been trying to lynch Zebra for awhile, since she is a low hanging fruit which is something he does alot as mafia.

I don't believe that's true. I can't remember anyone every saying that about me before, and I don't recognize that as one of my usual behaviours. You had better qualify that with an example, or it's going to look pretty suspicious to me. From my point of view, you're making up something about me to try and incriminate me.

He has also been posting less and his post about not killing active players was odd.

I haven't been posting less, I've been posting little all game. It's nothing I haven't addressed before.

And I know that post was odd. It was just so quiet, so I thought I'd say something odd. Maybe it was boredom. I wouldn't have said it if it weren't true.

Long Con wrote:... I can't remember anyone every saying that about me before...

*ever

a2thezebra wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:You like him because he is town reading you.

You're only saying that because you're scumreading her.

bingo

So I am scum reading you? You made this mistake last game too.

sig wrote:Okay I have no case to back this up what so ever and don't intend to make one tonight, but I'm about 65% sure LC is mafia now. His play style was neaturl before, but I'm becoming increasingly more pinged by his play style and his attack on zebra seems to be what mafia LC used to do to me.

I'm also voting Nijju and must go for the time. I will be back later to do some ISO

I agree with you on LC.

Scotty wrote:

Long Con wrote:No more spreading out votes. I agree with zebra's analysis of Soneji, and he is now one of my suspects.

Wait what? But you just voted zebra. Zebra, this is a true waffle if I ever saw it.

I agree with sig that LC is bad. Probably bad with MM.

I agree with you on LC.

Nachomamma8 wrote:Could someone talk to me about why zebra is picking up votes?
Starting to reread the last 10 pages so I have a general sense of the game, then will start on ISOs.

Beats me. I've got her down as probs civ.

nijuukyugou wrote:

I have four votes for no good reason that I saw. I said my defense. It did nothing. I'm rather annoyed that it happened this way, actually. However, I see no reason to react ridiculously, as it changes nothing.

I was drunk. That's a damn good reason to vote for anyone.

Nice result. Excellent job on the lynch y'all!

Again, Snow Dog's play looks good, but his vote here is the opposite.

I don't really understand why you would think I'm Mafia. Something's wrong with how you're reading me.

sig's whole post is just nonsense to me, as in it doesn't make sense.

"Okay I have no case to back this up what so ever and don't intend to make one tonight, but I'm about 65% sure LC is mafia now." I just don't see how giving a percentage works here, but whatever. "His play style was [neutral(?)] before," what does that mean, my play style was 'neutral' before? You mean your read of my alignment was unsure? Why not say that then? Or was it supposed to be 'natural'? "but I'm becoming increasingly more pinged by his play style and his attack on zebra seems to be what mafia LC used to do to me. " "seems to be what Mafia LC used to do to me" WTF are you serious with this? For starters, no. Again, you are attributing something to me that isn't something I've ever been accused of, and you have no references to back it up. You must be thinking of someone else.

It just plain doesn't make sense. And MM just comes in with "I agree!" When you just smile and agree with a suspicion that doesn't really stand up past being a mid-level gut feel, it just makes you look bad. But hey, cast your votes my way tomorrow, I've played enough Mafia to know that's the fastest way to convince some folks that I'm telling the truth.

sig wrote:@Sonjie/LC Could you give me a rainbow list (or something like it) of your current reads?

Long Con
Nachomamma8
Dr. Wilgy
Vompatti
Scotty
Snow Dog
MacDougall
Metalmarsh89
Soneji
motel room 2.0
Sig
a2thezebra

Nachomamma8 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Scotty wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Y'know what...

I still think mp was bad.

I do too.

To both of you: why.

And how does that help you sort things out right now?

MP gave me a soft baddie read. If he was civ, he would have given me a hard baddie read at the time. He was disingenuous and bad.

I've generally found that people who believe that there is only one possible thing that can happen in any given situation are not right often.

How often are those same people scum in your experience? Townies can certainly tunnel but I've found it is usually scum that like to push certain angles of thought. Zebra's conclusion on MP was based on what he thought MP should be reading him as, in this case as an even stronger scum read...it doesn't really make much sense to come to this conclusion unless the person is thinking that MP was soft scum reading Zebra due to them being scummates. I hope everyone can see the issue here.

With these constant janitor kills, it would be a valid scum tactic to promote certain players as scum, to implicate living players and push the idea that few scum remain.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Soneji wrote:Seems they have gone more the route of letting the activity slow down to a crawl rather than try to take the lead now that most of the top level/most active players are dead. The players I was watching this phase were Long Con and Nacho. As I pointed out in my ISO of Long Con, he backed off of Wilgy due to Nacho's insistence that Wilgy's role PM antics weren't scum indicative. This was odd to me considering LC going after MP for supposed buddying but then allowing someone he has no reason to trust to sway his view on another player, rather than suspecting them of buddying/defending a scummate. That Nacho has fallen off the face of the earth in activity after d1 is a big red flag.

My vote will be on LC or Nacho today.

Why is me falling off in activity suspicious? Do you generally find it pretty common that people who have the ability to post a lot as mafia post a lot Day 1 and then are completely unable to post later in the game? Why would I struggle posting when I could scumhunt legitimately?

It is completely withib the realm of possibility to me that scum could be very active d1 where there is no info to go by and its easy to forgivably mislynch(which you did) then drop off activity later.

This could be due to any combination of a lack of ability to keep up the charade, not wanting to have to be town's leader to then potentially have to be accountable for mislynches, their scummates being suspects and not wanting to seem suspect themselves by putting attention elsewhere, not wanting to be night killed by the other scum team, etc.

Two mafia games make it easier for mafia to legitimately scumhunt but it still hampers their ability. They still have their own teammates to false read, still have to get some mislynches on townies to win.

Nachomamma8 wrote:Like the argument you gave there was "Long Con thought that buddying was scummy, and so changing his mind on a line of logic presented is scummy". This is a nonsense line of argument unless I'm misunderstanding it pretty horribly.

You are misunderstanding it. The impression I got from Long Con's wording is not that he truly bought into your argument but backed down based on how insistent you were. This says to me that he either didn't feel like going against/engaging you on the matter or backed off due to you being scummates and allowing you room to control the conversation. The latter is something I have taken part in with as scummates with my pal Marco on NF.

I lean towards scummates given his claim of MP buddying, if he was town or opposing mafia I don't see him as willing to concede to you, rather take the opportunity to implicate you.

Scotty : Has in general been very actively scumhunting in a way that comes off as genuine with the way he jumps on questionable posts. The only thing that potentially indicates scum to me right now is him bringing up the lack of discussion on him multiple times. Mafia are more worried about where they stand in the game and can even welcome having some suspicion on them, especially when there are two mafia.

Conclusion : Slight scum lean

Sig : Has had a varied scumhunting game, from just quick reads, to gut reads, NK analysis and OMGUS. His quick reads give me good vibes, don't care for how much he has written on NK analysis as its a very iffy field and he has largely gone after people for their reasoning going after others rather than any more direct scum indicative behavior. His claim that one of n1's NK wasn't missed is reminiscent of his insistence that we were playing a certain setup in the scrimmage game, where he was scum and therefore knew the setup.

Conclusion : Moderate scum read


@sig : I don't do rainbows as I don't do townreads, plus doing it on mobile would be a pain. I can list tiers.

Slight scum lean :

Scotty
MM

Middling scum lean :

Mac
Vompatti
Motel room
Snow Dog

Moderate scum lean:

Wilgy
Sig

Strong scum lean :

LC
Nacho
Zebra

Something about you is off Soneji. You smell like a pirate.

Soneji wrote:The impression I got from Long Con's wording is not that he truly bought into your argument but backed down based on how insistent you were. This says to me that he either didn't feel like going against/engaging you on the matter or backed off due to you being scummates and allowing you room to control the conversation. The latter is something I have taken part in with as scummates with my pal Marco on NF.

Well, I don't know what you and your buddy Marco like to do, but I don't see that as all too relevant when analyzing my behaviour. Here's my post that you want to condemn... weird that I'm the one who had to actually quote it, since you wouldn't:

Long Con wrote:My suspicion of MP feels better than my suspicion of Wilgy (probably due in part to Nacho's repeated viewpoint that no suspicion should arise from Wilgy's "no-role-look"), so I'll vote MP

So... what's the idea here again? Wilgy, Nacho, and I are all scummates? I guess that makes us the entire Pirate baddie team, since there's two Cannibals left at most. We didn't have to link to each other on Day 1, but we felt like it anyway. The thinking is flawed here. I posted what I did because that's how I was feeling at the time. No more, no less. I have no special connection to Nacho, Wilgy, or anyone.

I lean towards scummates given his claim of MP buddying, if he was town or opposing mafia I don't see him as willing to concede to you, rather take the opportunity to implicate you.

Is that what you do when you're town? "Take opportunities to implicate people"? That doesn't sound very Civvish. That's not how I roll, if I feel like someone is bad, then I will usually say it, and when I don't feel like they're bad, then I don't.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Isn't gut just an easy way for mafia to vote someone?

Depends. If the person is known to generally make well-reasoned votes, they can't really get away with using "gut" as a reason often. If they are not, then yes, but that also means that said player is also likely to make gut votes as town. In this game, the people I'm expecting to rely on "gut" often are probably: Wilgy, Vompatti, Zebra, MM; Golden and MP, when talking about them, use words like "random" or "WIFOM-laden" and other people agree, which means that they aren't as likely to scumhunt in the way that you're expecting them to.

So "gut" can be a mafia thing or just a lazy townie who doesn't do a proper case.

Soneji you can't be paying much attention considering you're the last one still using male pronouns for me at this point.

Lynch Ji-San or Snow dog!!

Snow Dog wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Isn't gut just an easy way for mafia to vote someone?

Depends. If the person is known to generally make well-reasoned votes, they can't really get away with using "gut" as a reason often. If they are not, then yes, but that also means that said player is also likely to make gut votes as town. In this game, the people I'm expecting to rely on "gut" often are probably: Wilgy, Vompatti, Zebra, MM; Golden and MP, when talking about them, use words like "random" or "WIFOM-laden" and other people agree, which means that they aren't as likely to scumhunt in the way that you're expecting them to.

So "gut" can be a mafia thing or just a lazy townie who doesn't do a proper case.

The whole point of gut is that it's pure instinct ughhhhhhhhh get with the program

a2thezebra wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Isn't gut just an easy way for mafia to vote someone?

Depends. If the person is known to generally make well-reasoned votes, they can't really get away with using "gut" as a reason often. If they are not, then yes, but that also means that said player is also likely to make gut votes as town. In this game, the people I'm expecting to rely on "gut" often are probably: Wilgy, Vompatti, Zebra, MM; Golden and MP, when talking about them, use words like "random" or "WIFOM-laden" and other people agree, which means that they aren't as likely to scumhunt in the way that you're expecting them to.

So "gut" can be a mafia thing or just a lazy townie who doesn't do a proper case.

The whole point of gut is that it's pure instinct ughhhhhhhhh get with the program

Yeah, I've been playin gut this entire game and it seems to be working decently enough.

DrWilgy wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Isn't gut just an easy way for mafia to vote someone?

Depends. If the person is known to generally make well-reasoned votes, they can't really get away with using "gut" as a reason often. If they are not, then yes, but that also means that said player is also likely to make gut votes as town. In this game, the people I'm expecting to rely on "gut" often are probably: Wilgy, Vompatti, Zebra, MM; Golden and MP, when talking about them, use words like "random" or "WIFOM-laden" and other people agree, which means that they aren't as likely to scumhunt in the way that you're expecting them to.

So "gut" can be a mafia thing or just a lazy townie who doesn't do a proper case.

The whole point of gut is that it's pure instinct ughhhhhhhhh get with the program

Yeah, I've been playin gut this entire game and it seems to be working decently enough.

hollaaaaa

*High fives Zebra*

*completely misses*

*makes it not awkward by turning the miss into a hug. It's semi believable as the intention all along to on-lookers*

MovingPictures07 wrote:Do I get a hug?

Someone might think it's necrophilia

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Do I get a hug?

Someone might think it's necrophilia

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Do I get a hug?

Someone might think it's necrophilia

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Do I get a hug?

Someone might think it's necrophilia

*joins hug*

Long Con wrote:Necro-threesome.

Also, that high five was superlame and obviously not intended to be a hug.

NECRO-THREESOME sounds like some awful death metal band.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Long Con wrote:Necro-threesome.

Also, that high five was superlame and obviously not intended to be a hug.

NECRO-THREESOME sounds like some awful death metal band.

Or some undead jazz trio.

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Long Con wrote:Necro-threesome.

Also, that high five was superlame and obviously not intended to be a hug.

NECRO-THREESOME sounds like some awful death metal band.

Or some undead jazz trio.

I can dig that.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Long Con wrote:Necro-threesome.

Also, that high five was superlame and obviously not intended to be a hug.

NECRO-THREESOME sounds like some awful death metal band.

Or some undead jazz trio.

I can dig that.

A grave remark.

a2thezebra wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Isn't gut just an easy way for mafia to vote someone?

Depends. If the person is known to generally make well-reasoned votes, they can't really get away with using "gut" as a reason often. If they are not, then yes, but that also means that said player is also likely to make gut votes as town. In this game, the people I'm expecting to rely on "gut" often are probably: Wilgy, Vompatti, Zebra, MM; Golden and MP, when talking about them, use words like "random" or "WIFOM-laden" and other people agree, which means that they aren't as likely to scumhunt in the way that you're expecting them to.

So "gut" can be a mafia thing or just a lazy townie who doesn't do a proper case.

The whole point of gut is that it's pure instinct ughhhhhhhhh get with the program

Yeah. I'm calling it bull.

Snow Dog wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Isn't gut just an easy way for mafia to vote someone?

Depends. If the person is known to generally make well-reasoned votes, they can't really get away with using "gut" as a reason often. If they are not, then yes, but that also means that said player is also likely to make gut votes as town. In this game, the people I'm expecting to rely on "gut" often are probably: Wilgy, Vompatti, Zebra, MM; Golden and MP, when talking about them, use words like "random" or "WIFOM-laden" and other people agree, which means that they aren't as likely to scumhunt in the way that you're expecting them to.

So "gut" can be a mafia thing or just a lazy townie who doesn't do a proper case.

The whole point of gut is that it's pure instinct ughhhhhhhhh get with the program

Yeah. I'm calling it bull.

Calling what bull? My endorsement of gut reads or gut reads themselves?

You've completed the thievery trial with aplomb! Here is the winning staple remover entry:
You could stick the staple remover in your mouth and pretend to be a Vampire - this will protect you from Pirates, who are known to be extremely superstitious.

The only thing left is to venture into the deep dark forest in search of treasure. But first, you need to stop all this killing. It's really getting out of hand. Look, two of your good friends are gone again this morning. How is thta okay?

Motel Room has been killed.
Sig has been Killed.
You have 48 hours to lynch a baddie.

RIP sig, motel room ehhhhhh