The Syndicate

What's wrong with my post?

It's totally obvi niju needs to be destroyed.

So Say We All

a2thezebra wrote:Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end?

My question about this stems from the specific time of day you placed your vote. If it's a 24 hour day phase, the day would have ended hours before your vote. If it's a 48 hour day phase, it ends when it actually ends tonight. When exactly did you think the day was supposed to end?

Matt wrote:What's wrong with my post?

It's totally obvi niju needs to be destroyed.

So Say We All

Please share for those of us that its not "obvi" to.

Elohcin wrote:I think this is crazy interesting. If we all decided to work together, civ and scum, and get rid of the process by voting his element each day, we could rid ourselves of him completely (or at least make him vanilla) so we don't have to deal with him at all really.

How much commitment would you be willing to offer to this notion of consistently lynching Process terms rather than players? You seem to be fully on board in your language here without must hesitance or consideration, which is a curious thing in the face of any suggestion that town and baddies openly coordinate on anything.

Elohcin wrote:

Matt wrote:What's wrong with my post?

It's totally obvi niju needs to be destroyed.

So Say We All

Please share for those of us that its not "obvi" to.

I would like Bloops to respond to my interrogation before I go any further.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I liked this post because I wanted unique content from him, which he hadn't yet provided. He provided it posthaste, and then he was on the same level as everyone else who has provided content so far. So I dropped my pressure. That's it.

What I want to know is:

1) What did you think of AATB's content?
2) What makes you think that my pressure and swift abandoning is a mafia tell? You imply it based on your wording above, where you say Silverwolf [accurately] called me out for it in the scrimmage game. I think that's nonsense. This is something I do. Why do you think there is a mafia motivation to this behavior?

1. I said earlier that I liked his attention to detail regarding the role update in the thread OP. It's a small point as are most at this point in the game, but I don't find him suspicious.

2. I didn't say it was a "mafia tell". I said it was a "parallel". It recalled something you did in a very recent baddie performance and that alone is reason enough to raise the point and engage the conversation. This is a rather standard meta point. I'm not a stranger to the notion of throwing mud votes around early on Day 1 to encourage the generation of content, but I noted that you established the relative pressure scenario and then let it go without asking for terribly much. If a baddie behaves this way, then the motive is likely to situate oneself into an effortful interactive image despite having no real reason to provide effort. Ask yourself the same question: what was your motivation when you behaved in a similar way in the scrimmage game?

thellama73:

I just underlined it to get your attention. What do you think of sig right this moment?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end?

My question about this stems from the specific time of day you placed your vote. If it's a 24 hour day phase, the day would have ended hours before your vote. If it's a 48 hour day phase, it ends when it actually ends tonight. When exactly did you think the day was supposed to end?

In fairness to Zebra, it appears I was wrong too. I'm all out of sorts with cycles in games right now.

The phase ends tomorrow night, not tonight.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I think this is crazy interesting. If we all decided to work together, civ and scum, and get rid of the process by voting his element each day, we could rid ourselves of him completely (or at least make him vanilla) so we don't have to deal with him at all really.

How much commitment would you be willing to offer to this notion of consistently lynching Process terms rather than players? You seem to be fully on board in your language here without must hesitance or consideration, which is a curious thing in the face of any suggestion that town and baddies openly coordinate on anything.

Well, I am thinking about it really. I am not for it without hesitation or consideration, that's for sure. I think we ought to put our heads together and consider all sides of this thing. That's why I posted what wiki had to say. I think we need to look at every aspect before going for it.

Matt wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Matt wrote:What's wrong with my post?

It's totally obvi niju needs to be destroyed.

So Say We All

Please share for those of us that its not "obvi" to.

I would like Bloops to respond to my interrogation before I go any further.

Exactly. Which means you have nothing. You just want to throw a name out there and see what happens. So no. No "obvi" here.

I think this creates a unique situation that has the capacity to yield uniquely telling data.

Everyone who hasn't already commented on it: I'd like to know where you stand on this proposal made by DrumBeats:

If it's unclear, I'm referring to all of the posts made by DrumBeats in that exchange, not just the last one. It's a progressive description, it's all necessary context.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I think this is crazy interesting. If we all decided to work together, civ and scum, and get rid of the process by voting his element each day, we could rid ourselves of him completely (or at least make him vanilla) so we don't have to deal with him at all really.

How much commitment would you be willing to offer to this notion of consistently lynching Process terms rather than players? You seem to be fully on board in your language here without must hesitance or consideration, which is a curious thing in the face of any suggestion that town and baddies openly coordinate on anything.

Elohcin, I don't think this is the right strategy to take. I'm thinking the Process is a single lynchable person with formes. I'll explain in a bit.

Catching up, DrumBeats, I am extremely against this idea of the scum and the civilians secretly teaming up. Roles are scarce but given that it's a side mission it's probably safe to assume that mafia has some nightkill ability. What the hell is there in the promise of not killing civilians? Ring of Gyges, folks. Even if given the opportunity to act in unison with the whole group, they have the option of completely screwing over the civilians with a nightkill from the anonymity of this arrangement. Civs could pretty easily be getting themselves into a bind. It sounds like an inherently bad situation where the civilians are going to get the short end of the stick.

Also, thoughts re: Cell. So, Cheerleader won the poll yesterday is my guess. Host says the Process will manifest itself in many ways. I'm guessing the Process is manifest in the Cheerleader form now, and it has that ability, and this is why it was revealed.
The Cheerleader role also specifies that it can protect a Process element from being nightkilled. And here Cell shows up in the daily lynch section.
It seems most likely that possibly the Process is either able to change elements on a daily basis and this will be what reveals the role, is my guess.
My original guess was that perhaps by voting the element it would force the Process to change to that element, but given that the Cheerleader role mentions nightkill protection from elements, they're capable of being killed, and this would then prevent the Process from becoming that element. So, we have one element on the lynch list which we could eliminate. But I wonder why Cell specifically shows up, versus other elements, or elements as a whole. Something to do with the Process's selection, or Host's discrimination? Maybe it's what element the Process is planning on taking tomorrow?

So, tl;dr, I think the elements are formes that the Process takes, rather than someone being behind it, as someone speculated earlier (don't remember who at the moment, sorry). I think we can vote to kill the element to prevent the Process from taking that forme later, but the Process is still someone out there amongst our ranks. Given that we don't know what the hell the role does and if this is true we're lynching essentially nobody, it's giving the civilians fewer opportunities to nab a baddie early on. In a bigger game I would want to focus more on preserving civilian life without eliminating indiscriminately, but I don't think we have that luxury here. Gotta get on the hunt, or the civs are in trouble. Look at Barry Lyndon.

I propose we skip the Cell voting for now. Focus on baddy hunting. Right now, the Process has a defensive element and is less able to do anything serious. This is the moment to strike.

Initial reads on the few actives on here have been pretty good. I can follow up more on that if anyone wants. DrumBeat's post about strategy seems to favor the baddies but it only strikes me as marginally pingy. I would be tempted to vote for them, but it's a little too early to have more than just a sinking suspicion on little evidence. Elohcin glomming on to that strategy might be something of note too.

Agleam, did you read what I wrote about the matter in response to JJJ? Cause he was misreading my gung-ho attitude.

I missed it, it somehow didn't show up in the linki. Thanks for the heads up. Appreciate the clarification.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

nutella wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
I'm not sure what this means though... protect an "element" from all Night actions. Does this mean that these are like semi-independent "parts" of The Process, rather than role abilities?

Oh, I could have explained the process better as well. Basically they're a bunch of robots, and each type of robot does a different thing. Cheerleaders put a protective shield in front of another robot as you're trying to kill them, so that makes sense with the ability revealed. I agree that probably the Process role gets to choose between these abilities. I don't remember what all of them do but they're probably on that wiki.

Ah, interesting! Thanks, that actually makes more sense now, to think of The Process as a "collective". Maybe certain robots can even "die" but protect the role itself from completely dying? Maybe the role has some kind of kill protection.

I am so glad you and LA are here to suss this stuff out.

a2thezebra wrote:I just finished watching Angel. I'm curious Illyria, is your name taken from the demon of the same name from that show?

Oops! I randomized and got Matt!

Indeed it is. She has always been one of my favorite characters.

Why in the world would you do that??

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end?

I'm confused at your confusion.

^^This. I am terrible at reading and remembering roles but it is pretty easy to look at the top of the poll where it tells you the time it ends.

thellama73 wrote:All right, I am here and caught. Right off the bat, I feel good about overly-enthusiastic MP. Seems like typical civ behavior from him. I also doubt Drumbeats would have proposed the voteswap if he were bad, so my voting choices are already narrowing down. Come on, other people, give me some more to work with.

I concur about MP. Unsure about Drum.

Elohcin wrote:*snip*
I just mean that it COULD be more about strategy than it is if people would take it more seriously than they do. And, yeah, I think I trust you so far. I wish more people would talk so I can have the chance to trust more people.

As for The Process, Wiki says this: Cells are a form of The Process. When any type of The Process is destroyed (excepting of course Badcells), Cells are the natural result. They are immobile and do not attack, and are collectable by Red for unknown use. If they are not quickly attended to, they will either turn into Badcells or regenerate to their previous form. They are composed of four floating white metal pieces and a red orb. Cells do not have a Limiter page.

Anyone care to try and interpret what we should do with this info?

Oh geez. So we have a couple of options here, vote Cell to keep them from turning into Badcells or regenerating. Ignore them this lynch and see what happens (not sure I love this plan).

I wish I understood the lingo better. Does Badcell mean Bad as in Evil and Anti Town or something else? It would inform my decisions.

Elohcin wrote:

Matt wrote:Yeah let's lynch the Bloops. She's the Process, right?

GAH!!! THIS! This is the type of post that is driving me nuts these days. Either be helpful or hush. Matt, you are giving me gray hairs already this game.

And don't take this frustration as a defense of Niju, y'all. Cause I know that's what at least 2 of you are thinking.

I am not, and I share your frustration here.

As for Drums plan, for me, it comes down to this. I have trust issues. Why would we ever expect the mafia to hold up their end? We would basically just be telling them "it is open season, please betray us and kill as many of us as possible". I would like to propose some kind of balance, we have no idea who the Process is, so for the first lynch (and maybe the second) we go about this traditionally. Unless we decide to lynch a Cell, which on the surface looks like a good call, but knowing Epi can be a maybe be a bad idea.

Bah.

Wait how is it STILL Day 1?

By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one.

The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain.

But how can we trust you?

DrumBeats wrote:By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one.

The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain.

I think you're bad.

Matt wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Matt wrote:What's wrong with my post?

It's totally obvi niju needs to be destroyed.

So Say We All

Please share for those of us that its not "obvi" to.

I would like Bloops to respond to my interrogation before I go any further.

"Interrogation"? You mean this?

Matt wrote:I'll hit up Bad cell.

nijuukyugou wrote:Woo, game starting on a weekend!

I'll vote Cheerleader, because it's one of two that's left.

Are you the Process?

No.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, some thoughts. Reading the wiki and looking at the style of this game makes me want to play it for real, but I need a new computer fit for gaming for that, so I'll satisfy myself with some good ol' fashioned deduction and discussion of mechanics, woo! But first, thoughts on thoughts that have been said in my absence.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Lastly, for the idea that DrumBeats proposed regarding working "with the mafia" to eliminate The Process, I don't think worrying about this at this stage is healthy, since:
1) I don't know how we are supposed to effectively hunt for The Process at this time.
2) You can never "trust" the mafia enough to work with them on something.

Nonetheless, it does seem both factions have a mutual benefit in ridding the game of The Process, so I think inadvertently the mafia will be working with us on that matter. I don't think any specific attempt to work with them would be at all fruitful, unless we reach a certain point later in the game where we can somehow try to pinpoint The Process based on actual hunting procedures, and at that time we can re-open this discussion. But that's just my opinion.

I agree with this, mostly at the part of trusting the mafia at any point. I learned my lesson the hard way with trusting someone's "great idea" about working collaboratively in ENO mafia (the animals lost miserably for coming forward and revealing roles for the "good of everyone" ). It's a good idea in theory only if the mafia cooperates, but in the end, they're going to be out for themselves, regardless of having a common goal. Of course, this is also a reason to never leave Indys alone, but then I talk myself into a circle.

thellama73 wrote:All right, I am here and caught. Right off the bat, I feel good about overly-enthusiastic MP. Seems like typical civ behavior from him. I also doubt Drumbeats would have proposed the voteswap if he were bad, so my voting choices are already narrowing down. Come on, other people, give me some more to work with.

LOL, I always see enthusiastic MP as the opposite. The red baddie lights go off when he's asking questions like this, but then again, I'm always inclined to keep an eye on the slippery sock. No actual ping except my gut, which is not enough to go off of at this point, so don't take that comment as such. Yet. I'd like to actually participate better in this game than I have in the last few games, and I believe I'm off to a good start.

a2thezebra wrote:Wait how is it STILL Day 1?

How are you still confused by the mechanics? What's going on with you, zeebs? This is weird as shit.

Linki @ DrumBeats - Your plan, however, at its core, is to trust mafia to any extent, which is not viable. They already have a large team for a speed game with only 17 players. Again, part of the theory works, and I agree we need to keep a hell of an eye on the Process and prevent what we can, but trusting mafia to help civs is not gonna work for a civ win.

OK, I'm back from graduating!! and caught up.

Zebra, I have no idea how you got so confused but it's pretty weird that you voted without even looking at the poll time.

Matt's inexplicable naming of Niju as the Process is perplexing and his refusal to explain it is even more so. Matt tends to be zany but I'm keeping an eye on him for this strange behavior.

I think that Drum's alliance proposition is probably a terrible idea and might have nefarious motivations. The Process is just one role/player, so even with its many powers it probably won't be impossible to get rid of, while the Camerata team is a significant threat and more in number for us to take down. I find Drum quite suspicious for the proposal and I also find Elo suspicious for expressing interest in it and then sort of covering her tracks -- although I believe that she wasn't outright agreeing to the plan in the first place but considering it as an option, but it's still kind of surprising that she jumped on it without acknowledging its suspicious nature.

There's still a whole day but it's looking likely I'll want to vote for either Drum or Elo.


linki @ Drum: huh, I don't really understand, you think the mafia can target specific elements? if they can, will we be told a process element has been eliminated? This all seems pretty speculative, and regardless I largely agree with niju that any degree of alliance/trusting the mafia is too risky especially in such a small game.

Aaaand there's a Cell sock account

a2thezebra wrote:But how can we trust you?

Explain this sentence.

a2thezebra wrote:But how can we trust you?

Are you speaking for the baddies?

Cell wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one.

The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain.

I think you're bad.

Whaa??!!

hmm, syndicate gave me no linki....I have a few posts to read

nutella wrote:
I think that Drum's alliance proposition is probably a terrible idea and might have nefarious motivations. The Process is just one role/player, so even with its many powers it probably won't be impossible to get rid of, while the Camerata team is a significant threat and more in number for us to take down. I find Drum quite suspicious for the proposal and I also find Elo suspicious for expressing interest in it and then sort of covering her tracks -- although I believe that she wasn't outright agreeing to the plan in the first place but considering it as an option, but it's still kind of surprising that she jumped on it without acknowledging its suspicious nature.

There's still a whole day but it's looking likely I'll want to vote for either Drum or Elo.

You are right that I didn't outright agree with the plan but was interested. See, I read the wiki and it scared me a bit. But I am not sure its the best plan as we most likely cannot trust Mafia to go along. I'm not sure if they are as scared as we about about this cell thing. But I wouldn't say I was "covering my tracks" b/c I don't think there were any tracks to cover. I'm not the only one that expressed interest and I bet I won't be the only one still as more people come in and read the thread today. It's a big part of what has been discussed today and I suppose others will find it interesting as well. Interesting does not mean "yeah, let's do it." Please don't take what I say and skew it to find a reason to vote someone. That will not help us find a baddie.

How in any way do we need to trust the mafia for this plan? We will only act after we know they did. No trust. Just a mutual enemy. If we ignore the Process, it will win. Don't be blind here guys.

Seriously, I never said we shouldn't scumhunt. I just said we should take out elements of the process too, and proposed that we do it if and only if mafia shoots one instead of one of us. I'm getting scumread for trying to save civ lives and help us achieve our win con rn. Like what the hell.

We know the elements are targettable due to the cheerleader's description:

Cheerleader- Protect a Process element from all Night actions. Vote is worth 1.

Night actions can be used on them. If and only if scum takes advantage of this, then we should take advantage of our ability to lynch them, which is suggested by Cell being on the lynch votes.

The fact that the Process responded to me that he doesn't like this is clear that I'm onto something as far as how the mechanics of it work.

and @Eloch - That's exactly what I was thinking. I wouldn't be opposed to a zebra lynch as of now. I can't think of any motivation for that sentence other than making we mean scum and you mean town. Trusting me personally has no effect on the logic of said plan.

Once again since few people are acknowledging this: My plan only applies after the scum shoots an element first. The plan in no way is a "lets hunt the process while the mafia kills us" its a "hey mafia, you should kill an element instead of us, and if you do we will lynch an element too. We both need the process dead, so while we have the man power it would be best to take care of it early.

I'm mafia and I decline your offer Drum.

DrumBeats wrote:
Once again since few people are acknowledging this: My plan only applies after the scum shoots an element first. The plan in no way is a "lets hunt the process while the mafia kills us" its a "hey mafia, you should kill an element instead of us, and if you do we will lynch an element too. We both need the process dead, so while we have the man power it would be best to take care of it early.

@ Epi - can scum shoot an element as their night kill instead of shooting a player?

DB I am not seeing where you are getting this info.

I used the word shoot b/c I wanted to phrase it as DB did. But I mean target.

It seems that everyone is concerned about this mysterious force known only as "The Process," but our researchers have found that the elements of this process are surprisingly vulnerable to effects that can hinder most people. These elements can even be destroyed if targeted with such an intent.

Process elements alive: 1

Comment? >_

Elohcin wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:
Once again since few people are acknowledging this: My plan only applies after the scum shoots an element first. The plan in no way is a "lets hunt the process while the mafia kills us" its a "hey mafia, you should kill an element instead of us, and if you do we will lynch an element too. We both need the process dead, so while we have the man power it would be best to take care of it early.

@ Epi - can scum shoot an element as their night kill instead of shooting a player?

DB I am not seeing where you are getting this info.

Check the OP. Scroll down to cheerleader and it says that it can protect an element from a night action, proving night actions can be used on process elements. Cell being in our lynch for the day proves that they can be lynched.

Hey, is anyone else around? Just finished endgame stuff for Futurama (my game ended!) and I'm going to try catching up now.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I liked this post because I wanted unique content from him, which he hadn't yet provided. He provided it posthaste, and then he was on the same level as everyone else who has provided content so far. So I dropped my pressure. That's it.

What I want to know is:

1) What did you think of AATB's content?
2) What makes you think that my pressure and swift abandoning is a mafia tell? You imply it based on your wording above, where you say Silverwolf [accurately] called me out for it in the scrimmage game. I think that's nonsense. This is something I do. Why do you think there is a mafia motivation to this behavior?

1. I said earlier that I liked his attention to detail regarding the role update in the thread OP. It's a small point as are most at this point in the game, but I don't find him suspicious.

2. I didn't say it was a "mafia tell". I said it was a "parallel". It recalled something you did in a very recent baddie performance and that alone is reason enough to raise the point and engage the conversation. This is a rather standard meta point. I'm not a stranger to the notion of throwing mud votes around early on Day 1 to encourage the generation of content, but I noted that you established the relative pressure scenario and then let it go without asking for terribly much. If a baddie behaves this way, then the motive is likely to situate oneself into an effortful interactive image despite having no real reason to provide effort. Ask yourself the same question: what was your motivation when you behaved in a similar way in the scrimmage game?

"Rather standard meta point": What does that mean?

My motivation was to pressure AATB to provide content, hopefully meaningful. I think it accomplished that, so I moved it. I don't understand why that would be seen as mafia compatible instead of town compatible.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think this creates a unique situation that has the capacity to yield uniquely telling data.

Everyone who hasn't already commented on it: I'd like to know where you stand on this proposal made by DrumBeats:

Spoiler: show

DrumBeats wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:Also, in regards to the process, I'm wondering if we have to eliminate every element of the process to destroy it. Hence why Cell is an option to lynch.

That would seem to be an impossible task. That'd require quite a few lynches and they'd all take the place of a player lynch, seriously decreasing the number of opportunities to lynch baddies.

Maybe a combo of lynches and scum kills/vigilante kills.

How about we make a deal with scum here, since we both need the Process dead.

If scum kills a process element tonight, we will as a town lynch one tomorrow.

Wouldn't it be much more efficient to just try to lynch the player with the role? We have no idea how the game will progress from this starting point and what information or circumstances we might encounter to facilitate that hunt. It's a four man scum team, and this kind of significant Process-oriented focus is the opposite of how to pursue their elimination. Pending ability strength variables, I think town starts this game behind the eight ball in the numbers as it is.

Hence why we make it a deal with the scum. We do not get behind if scum shoots the process instead of us. However, if both factions allow the process to go unimpeded for the bulk of the game, I bet it will take both of us down in endgame easily. It seems to have a lot of roles. I think it is very reasonable to be proactive in getting rid of it early, as long as the scumteam proves their cooperation by shooting first. Only person who should be opposed to this arrangement is the process itself.

I think it's impossible to execute and thus an unproductive proposal. I have no intention of doing anything other than hunting for baddies right now, and I think that's what everyone should be doing.

agleaminranks wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I think this is crazy interesting. If we all decided to work together, civ and scum, and get rid of the process by voting his element each day, we could rid ourselves of him completely (or at least make him vanilla) so we don't have to deal with him at all really.

How much commitment would you be willing to offer to this notion of consistently lynching Process terms rather than players? You seem to be fully on board in your language here without must hesitance or consideration, which is a curious thing in the face of any suggestion that town and baddies openly coordinate on anything.

Elohcin, I don't think this is the right strategy to take. I'm thinking the Process is a single lynchable person with formes. I'll explain in a bit.

Catching up, DrumBeats, I am extremely against this idea of the scum and the civilians secretly teaming up. Roles are scarce but given that it's a side mission it's probably safe to assume that mafia has some nightkill ability. What the hell is there in the promise of not killing civilians? Ring of Gyges, folks. Even if given the opportunity to act in unison with the whole group, they have the option of completely screwing over the civilians with a nightkill from the anonymity of this arrangement. Civs could pretty easily be getting themselves into a bind. It sounds like an inherently bad situation where the civilians are going to get the short end of the stick.

Also, thoughts re: Cell. So, Cheerleader won the poll yesterday is my guess. Host says the Process will manifest itself in many ways. I'm guessing the Process is manifest in the Cheerleader form now, and it has that ability, and this is why it was revealed.
The Cheerleader role also specifies that it can protect a Process element from being nightkilled. And here Cell shows up in the daily lynch section.
It seems most likely that possibly the Process is either able to change elements on a daily basis and this will be what reveals the role, is my guess.
My original guess was that perhaps by voting the element it would force the Process to change to that element, but given that the Cheerleader role mentions nightkill protection from elements, they're capable of being killed, and this would then prevent the Process from becoming that element. So, we have one element on the lynch list which we could eliminate. But I wonder why Cell specifically shows up, versus other elements, or elements as a whole. Something to do with the Process's selection, or Host's discrimination? Maybe it's what element the Process is planning on taking tomorrow?

So, tl;dr, I think the elements are formes that the Process takes, rather than someone being behind it, as someone speculated earlier (don't remember who at the moment, sorry). I think we can vote to kill the element to prevent the Process from taking that forme later, but the Process is still someone out there amongst our ranks. Given that we don't know what the hell the role does and if this is true we're lynching essentially nobody, it's giving the civilians fewer opportunities to nab a baddie early on. In a bigger game I would want to focus more on preserving civilian life without eliminating indiscriminately, but I don't think we have that luxury here. Gotta get on the hunt, or the civs are in trouble. Look at Barry Lyndon.

I propose we skip the Cell voting for now. Focus on baddy hunting. Right now, the Process has a defensive element and is less able to do anything serious. This is the moment to strike.

Initial reads on the few actives on here have been pretty good. I can follow up more on that if anyone wants. DrumBeat's post about strategy seems to favor the baddies but it only strikes me as marginally pingy. I would be tempted to vote for them, but it's a little too early to have more than just a sinking suspicion on little evidence. Elohcin glomming on to that strategy might be something of note too.

Good thoughts here, thanks for your contributions regarding The Process. I'm inclined to agree.

So, just so I understand you correctly regarding your reads: You're town reading "the few actives" (who is that exactly?) and you have mafia reads on Elo and DrumBeats for their thoughts on the proposal but minor ones, yeah?

What do you make of anyone else, anything?

DrumBeats wrote:By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one.

The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain.

How does this actually address identifying and killing the person behind the role though?

nijuukyugou wrote:

thellama73 wrote:All right, I am here and caught. Right off the bat, I feel good about overly-enthusiastic MP. Seems like typical civ behavior from him. I also doubt Drumbeats would have proposed the voteswap if he were bad, so my voting choices are already narrowing down. Come on, other people, give me some more to work with.

LOL, I always see enthusiastic MP as the opposite. The red baddie lights go off when he's asking questions like this, but then again, I'm always inclined to keep an eye on the slippery sock. No actual ping except my gut, which is not enough to go off of at this point, so don't take that comment as such. Yet. I'd like to actually participate better in this game than I have in the last few games, and I believe I'm off to a good start.

But I always ask questions like this.

Got any other reads or pings?

DrumBeats wrote:How in any way do we need to trust the mafia for this plan? We will only act after we know they did. No trust. Just a mutual enemy. If we ignore the Process, it will win. Don't be blind here guys.

Seriously, I never said we shouldn't scumhunt. I just said we should take out elements of the process too, and proposed that we do it if and only if mafia shoots one instead of one of us. I'm getting scumread for trying to save civ lives and help us achieve our win con rn. Like what the hell.

We know the elements are targettable due to the cheerleader's description:

Cheerleader- Protect a Process element from all Night actions. Vote is worth 1.

Night actions can be used on them. If and only if scum takes advantage of this, then we should take advantage of our ability to lynch them, which is suggested by Cell being on the lynch votes.

The fact that the Process responded to me that he doesn't like this is clear that I'm onto something as far as how the mechanics of it work.

and @Eloch - That's exactly what I was thinking. I wouldn't be opposed to a zebra lynch as of now. I can't think of any motivation for that sentence other than making we mean scum and you mean town. Trusting me personally has no effect on the logic of said plan.

Once again since few people are acknowledging this: My plan only applies after the scum shoots an element first. The plan in no way is a "lets hunt the process while the mafia kills us" its a "hey mafia, you should kill an element instead of us, and if you do we will lynch an element too. We both need the process dead, so while we have the man power it would be best to take care of it early.

If this is the case and you firmly believe there's nothing we can or should do now, then let's just see what happens within these first few cycles.

I think your initial post(s) regarding the plan were a bit difficult to understand the details, so I'm glad you've elaborated. I'm still not on board, but since you offer no immediate action (such as lynching Cell right now), I don't think there's any productive way to currently further this line of discussion. Am I wrong?

DrWilgy wrote:I'm mafia and I decline your offer Drum.

Wilgy is the new Vompatti.

nutella, why do you have an intent to consider a vote for Elohcin and DrumBeats? What are the nefarious intentions in DrumBeats's plan, as currently elaborated?

DrumBeats, I would like to hear some other thoughts out of you; you say you aren't against scumhunting but almost all of your posts have been about your proposal. Anything else?

Does anyone have any read or opinion on zebra or Matt shooting off their votes immediately, other than it being strange?

I guess I'll work on a rainbow list now that I'm caught up, but I still feel like the discussion has been mostly fruitless with respect to anything alignment-indicative or hunting-worthy so far. Hopefully we can change that before the deadline.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one.

The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain.

How does this actually address identifying and killing the person behind the role though?

By allowing us to hit them when the time comes. I guarantee you at least one of those is something that keeps them safe. If we cut off the Process's power it won't be able to hurt us as much later. Also, if you look at the cheerleader it says that it's vote is worth one. I'm worried that the process will get more votes the longer we wait. We've got nothing to lose, assuming mafia targets them and not a civ first.

And in regards to your more recent post, there really is not anything to further this. My only thought on it is that if we do not agree to the terms as a town, I doubt the mafia will target the Process because they would not trust us to keep up our end. Hence why I've been pushing the idea, hoping to save us from a civ shot tonight.

Also, MP, what are your thoughts on Zebra and the potential scumslip I mentioned?

I'll respond with some more reads in a second but my primary one is scum!Zebra

Thanks DB, I feel better about you now that you've expanded your thoughts on it, and I think your insistence in getting people to comprehend and consider your idea is town-minded, even if I'm still not personally sold on it.

Wait, I must have missed something though with respect to Zebra. Potential scumslip? My bad, I don't remember you saying anything like that.

DrumBeats wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:But how can we trust you?

Explain this sentence.

Oh, I see what you mean re: zebra. This post?

Nah, I don't see a slip here. I can't see any mafia member ever saying this meaning "we" as the mafia, particularly someone as experienced as zebra.

What do you think town!Zebra logically meant by that post then?

DrumBeats wrote:What do you think town!Zebra logically meant by that post then?

She could have meant the 'royal' we (really just talking about herself) or the thread/the town in general.

nutella wrote:OK, I'm back from graduating!! and caught up.

Zebra, I have no idea how you got so confused but it's pretty weird that you voted without even looking at the poll time.

Matt's inexplicable naming of Niju as the Process is perplexing and his refusal to explain it is even more so. Matt tends to be zany but I'm keeping an eye on him for this strange behavior.

I think that Drum's alliance proposition is probably a terrible idea and might have nefarious motivations. The Process is just one role/player, so even with its many powers it probably won't be impossible to get rid of, while the Camerata team is a significant threat and more in number for us to take down. I find Drum quite suspicious for the proposal and I also find Elo suspicious for expressing interest in it and then sort of covering her tracks -- although I believe that she wasn't outright agreeing to the plan in the first place but considering it as an option, but it's still kind of surprising that she jumped on it without acknowledging its suspicious nature.

There's still a whole day but it's looking likely I'll want to vote for either Drum or Elo.


linki @ Drum: huh, I don't really understand, you think the mafia can target specific elements? if they can, will we be told a process element has been eliminated? This all seems pretty speculative, and regardless I largely agree with niju that any degree of alliance/trusting the mafia is too risky especially in such a small game.

Aaaand there's a Cell sock account

What nefarious intentions could the plan have? Elaborate. Look at the plan which, since the very beginning, was that we lynch a Process tomorrow if and only if the mafia kills one tonight. Tell me what nefarious intentions back up this scum read.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:What do you think town!Zebra logically meant by that post then?

She could have meant the 'royal' we (really just talking about herself) or the thread/the town in general.

But why would the royal we need to trust me for said plan. Nothing about the plan involved me.

DrumBeats wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:What do you think town!Zebra logically meant by that post then?

She could have meant the 'royal' we (really just talking about herself) or the thread/the town in general.

But why would the royal we need to trust me for said plan. Nothing about the plan involved me.

I'd like to hear what she has to say in response to this. I have my own explanation, but I don't want to put words in her mouth.