Phenon: Origins Mafia [END]

[sprityo]

The poll is wacked up right now. It shows 3-3-2, but the names I see should make it 3-3-3.

i see what you mean, I do not know the issue

[Lunatella]

No unfortunately I do not.

Is that a product of not knowing what to do with what they've said, not having caught up, or something else?

Mostly the second. I mean, I've read anything but I don't know it's just not sunk in or nothing has really stuck out as anything. I struggle with Day 1 and there was a lot of fuff in there. I mean voting over DICK? Seems frivolous to me. Typical Day 1 reasoning.

[Principal Skinner]

Ah that makes a lot of sense sprityo, thanks

[Chuck]

Without any reliable flips in this game it's more important than ever for everyone to be pretty dang clear about why they're voting for who they're voting for.

Without any flips - reliable or unreliable - it will be harder than most other games to determine which voting reasons are genuine.

Hello friends, Dr. J is back
I saw this post, and I gotta react
I like your pause, I think it's got good tact
But reasons are reasons, scum will still slack
It's a game about the mind and a game about deceit
Take a seat, watch 'em speak, or accept defeat
If we talk and talk, keep 'em out on the street
We'll nab those wolves dead on their feet.

I dislike this post. It says nothing.

[Spooky Ghost]

Placing my vote on Kilo basically to see what happens. I'm interested in what reactions might come out of a 3-way tie here.

Do you have any perspective to share on the suspicions I stated about Kilo?

I think they're solid for day 1, and I think Kilo has shown a relatively low civvie drive.

Also, I keep confusing you and Charlie for some reason.

[Spooky Ghost]

Without any reliable flips in this game it's more important than ever for everyone to be pretty dang clear about why they're voting for who they're voting for.

Without any flips - reliable or unreliable - it will be harder than most other games to determine which voting reasons are genuine.

Hello friends, Dr. J is back
I saw this post, and I gotta react
I like your pause, I think it's got good tact
But reasons are reasons, scum will still slack
It's a game about the mind and a game about deceit
Take a seat, watch 'em speak, or accept defeat
If we talk and talk, keep 'em out on the street
We'll nab those wolves dead on their feet.

I dislike this post. It says nothing.

[mention]Juliet[/mention], rap is cool and fun and I'm glad you're doing it. It's also going to make it harder for you to communicate and harder for us to read you. I know this is maybe antithetical to your rap strategy but if you could include a tl;dr at the end of your rap verses I would appreciate it.

[Chuck]

Without any reliable flips in this game it's more important than ever for everyone to be pretty dang clear about why they're voting for who they're voting for.

Without any flips - reliable or unreliable - it will be harder than most other games to determine which voting reasons are genuine.

Hello friends, Dr. J is back
I saw this post, and I gotta react
I like your pause, I think it's got good tact
But reasons are reasons, scum will still slack
It's a game about the mind and a game about deceit
Take a seat, watch 'em speak, or accept defeat
If we talk and talk, keep 'em out on the street
We'll nab those wolves dead on their feet.

I dislike this post. It says nothing.

Judging by my time spent isolating Juliet and reading, this post was not an outlier. Juliet's posts suffer from a lack of original content. Agreement and disagreement do not a dialogue make. The most helpful post of Juliet was a prod toward me. Even then, I was looking for opinion and conversation, and Juliet provided neither.

I will be happy with a Juliet vote for the time being. Please do tell me if you see the same.

linki: I do not think the rap is the problem. There is no content to tl;dr.

[Spooky Ghost]

tl;dr would force legible content and prevent rapping being used as a smokescreen.

[Spooky Ghost]

I'd be okay with a Juliet vote.

[Chuck]

tl;dr would force legible content and prevent rapping being used as a smokescreen.

Okay. This does make sense.

[Julinook]

Re: Juliet, I've appreciated that the rapping exists at all. In light of the discussion of ways to make life harder for the disguiser, such as adopting a distinctive style which will be more difficult for an interloper to replicate, the rapping method seems like an applicable effort.

I can at least agree that the hunting effort contained within the rapping is limited.

[Julinook]

What's up town, it's Dr. J,
I brought along my vote and I'm here to stay.
You ask me if I'd want to lynch the letter K?
I tell you "Yesssir! After an and MIA".
Why not instead lynch the letter G?
Or better yet, toss your votes on the AWOL D?
A letter that's the furthest from what our eyes see,
Just like the moon at its apogee.

Juliet, why do you feel it is prudent to prioritize an MIA lynch over a K lynch specifically?

[Julinook]

Every time I type Juliet in this game, my fingers try to jump to the "s" at the end.

[Chuck]

I have no issue with Juliet's choice to rap. I believe I inspired it.

Lack of content is lack of content.

[Kent Brockman]

I agree with India that justifying votes is important. Some of the votes for me have not really been justified. I am particularly concerned with Foxtrot, who appeared to vote for me while in the midst of a catch-up and then failed to acknowledge my later posts. F, please elaborate and/or reconsider.

It's simple. I didn't like your post. Your if ands or buts is irrelevant to me.

Anyone can backtrack.

[Spooky Ghost]

What's up town, it's Dr. J,
I brought along my vote and I'm here to stay.
You ask me if I'd want to lynch the letter K?
I tell you "Yesssir! After an and MIA".
Why not instead lynch the letter G?
Or better yet, toss your votes on the AWOL D?
A letter that's the furthest from what our eyes see,
Just like the moon at its apogee.

Juliet, why do you feel it is prudent to prioritize an MIA lynch over a K lynch specifically?

If you translate this post from rap back into plain English it's actually just Juliet saying hello and then making a short list of non-active players.

[Kent Brockman]

So... what's the point of uninformed lynching that gets us no Intel?

I say we just no lynch until 7 of us remain then be right. That's the safest way to give the Doc and the Oracle time to info gather.

[Kent Brockman]

Also if we lynch the Oracle it's worthless anyways.

[Kent Brockman]

Idk. There's no reason to lynch in this set up. I'd much rather wait till end game and take the 50% without ruining the Oracle's chances of getting us info and by then we should be able to analyze team interactions.

[Paprika]

We could have waited for day two to pull that. Then the oracle would have a choice regarding who to reveal. How unfortunate.

And furthermore, since the oracle is vanilla so long as it lives, I would imagine that the bad guys would avoid killing it. And the good guys would avoid lynching it as well.

So, I don't really want to believe you, Echo. I wonder what your motive is. Bad guy, trying to avoid being lynched? Good guy, trying not to get lynched or killed? Or are you a genuine Oracle, though very short-sighted?

India, you act like I'm supposed to be taking your advice on how to be the Oracle. I'm... supposed to wait until Day 2 to reveal I'm the Oracle now?

I don't even understand what you are talking about when you say "We could have waited for day two to pull that. Then the oracle would have a choice regarding who to reveal." The Oracle has a choice on any night they are killed... Day 2 just as much as Day 1.

Plus, I was asking Bravo. He says there's better Oracle strategies, and I want to hear them. Is he just saying that to take a stance on something, or does he really have better strategies in mind? If he just wants to scold me so that he's a scolder and I'm the scolded, f that. None of that is considered when you jump back in and shove your ideas back into my face.

[Spooky Ghost]

Idk. There's no reason to lynch in this set up. I'd much rather wait till end game and take the 50% without ruining the Oracle's chances of getting us info and by then we should be able to analyze team interactions.

So your proposal is that we should let the mafia have 100% control over who lives and dies for 5 phases and then hope that the mafia will leave 3 or 4 players alive who are capable of agreeing on 3 correct suspects in a row?

[Kent Brockman]

Idk. There's no reason to lynch in this set up. I'd much rather wait till end game and take the 50% without ruining the Oracle's chances of getting us info and by then we should be able to analyze team interactions.

So your proposal is that we should let the mafia have 100% control over who lives and dies for 5 phases and then hope that the mafia will leave 3 or 4 players alive who are capable of agreeing on 3 correct suspects in a row?

Yup!

In a vacuum this seems like the most efficient plan.

[Kent Brockman]

I mean really. What do we have to go off of?

Socks ruin tone and meta

Full janitor gains us nothing from random killing

All that's left is being able to pin 3 people together and bop-bop-bop and hope we are right. It would be easier to do this with less people.

If the doctor is on a ball that may be the only means of town confirming people. If the doc town confirms 1 and survives until the end, that's a 2 Civ team vs 5 meaning they only need to solve who is the majority.

[Spooky Ghost]

Would you like some constructive criticism on your plan?

[Kent Brockman]

Would you like some constructive criticism on your plan?

Will this be sarcastic?

[Spooky Ghost]

The constructive criticism is that it's really pretty bad. If we only choose "no vote" then we completely give the steering wheel to the mafia and gaurantee an endgame sequence with 3 living mafia.

Even if we all just vote just vote at random we have a chance at catching scum by accident. Lynching people because of weird tone stuff or whatever has a chance of snagging a mafia, even if we won't know that we did it until the game ends.

Actually just lynching people in a specific sequential order might be a valid method of killing scum in this game.

[Kent Brockman]

Actually just lynching people in a specific sequential order might be a valid method of killing scum in this game.

I kinda like this more. I wonder what the numbers are on the probability of hitting all 3 scum this way.

[Spooky Ghost]

Actually just lynching people in a specific sequential order might be a valid method of killing scum in this game.

I kinda like this more. I wonder what the numbers are on the probability of hitting all 3 scum this way.

The downside is that we lose out on analyzing relationships between players, but we don't really get that anyways. Especially since the Oracle role is inert. Though people may suddenly have to be resistant towards the strategy when it comes time for their teammate to be.... culled I guess?

The other downside is that I am at the start of the alphabet and it would be pretty hypocritical of me to not accept the responsibility of being the first sacrifice.

I would also feel pretty stupid dying that way if you guys stopped using the sequence strategy immediately after.

[Celeste]

tl;dr would force legible content and prevent rapping being used as a smokescreen.

Forcing a player and imposing your will?
Calm your jets man, sit back and chill
I can't be arsed to take your pill
I'll play as a I like, and enjoy it still

[Spooky Ghost]

tl;dr would force legible content and prevent rapping being used as a smokescreen.

Forcing a player and imposing your will?
Calm your jets man, sit back and chill
I can't be arsed to take your pill
I'll play as a I like, and enjoy it still

*votes Juliets*

[Spooky Ghost]

I'll play as I like as well.

What I like is encouraging open and honest communication and pressuring players to contribute more.

[Kent Brockman]

Actually just lynching people in a specific sequential order might be a valid method of killing scum in this game.

I kinda like this more. I wonder what the numbers are on the probability of hitting all 3 scum this way.

The downside is that we lose out on analyzing relationships between players, but we don't really get that anyways. Especially since the Oracle role is inert. Though people may suddenly have to be resistant towards the strategy when it comes time for their teammate to be.... culled I guess?

The other downside is that I am at the start of the alphabet and it would be pretty hypocritical of me to not accept the responsibility of being the first sacrifice.

I would also feel pretty stupid dying that way if you guys stopped using the sequence strategy immediately after.

I did the Math, we have 5 deaths without a baddie kill before GG, 7 with a single, 9 with 2.

That's 3 lynches to hit a bad which relate to 27% to hit a bad lynch 1, 33% to hit a bad lynch 2 and 42% to hit a bad lynch 3.

Assuming we don't lose then

We have a 40% chance to hit one of the 2 remaining bads lynch 4.

Lastly we have a 33% chance to hit the last bad lynch 5.

Tbh. I'm ok with these odds. If you average it out, each night we have a 35% chance of hitting a scumdozer.

[Spooky Ghost]

Alright so.... What does that mean?

[Lunatella]

Now that I think about it, I don't like C voting G very much.

You complain about ties, while turning a X way tie into an X+1 way tie? Why? For everything to dislike about ties, this is worse. For everything to like about ties, this is no better.

C, tell me more about your vote. I have theories.

I am troubled by the fact that Kilo voted for me then turned around and voiced suspicion about Charlie's vote and Charlie, but never changed his vote. But is distancing something a mafia team would do since there will be no flips? it also concerns me that at one point Kilo had as many votes as I did and yet now... yeah. Votes moving onto and then off of people worry me more this game.

[Chuck]

I am not going along with random or ordered selection. I refuse. We were given this unique setup to play, and if all it comes down to is vote ordering, then the actual game is already over.

The bad guys have the advantage. No information. No results. This leaves a void for us to work in, with nothing to build on. In a vacuum, bad guys can organize, good guys cannot. If you leave it at that, random chance does seem the better option.

I have faith in our collective ability to hunt. We scientists can use our gut and what little advantage comes from the power roles to overcome.
If you do not believe that, there is no reason to play at all. Such is the nature of the game.

[Kent Brockman]

Alright so.... What does that mean?

Means I no longer give a shit.

Too stressful to care about a game that doesn't reward you with info anyways.

I just wanna have a good time and spell funny words. Like... FIB and.... and IF

Let RNG hunt down mafia.

Linki - and here comes I to rain on F's parade.

[Kent Brockman]

Lol we spelled IF.

[Kent Brockman]

OMG..

GIF

[Chuck]

Could we spell fig?

I understand your concerns, Foxtrot, but mafia is all about building suspicions, I think. Even without concrete reason. Just treat every day like a stupid day one, and have fun. But do hunt.

[Kent Brockman]

Could we spell fig?

I understand your concerns, Foxtrot, but mafia is all about building suspicions, I think. Even without concrete reason. Just treat every day like a stupid day one, and have fun. But do hunt.

Zzzzzzzzzzz...

I'm conflicted on Juliet. They chose to play a gimmick game but they chose one that specifically doesn't stop communications. Seems like a dumb gimmick as it doesn't force anything. I can't even see this as a self challenge. Maybe I'm just too hardcore about what is and isn't a challenge.

[Lunatella]

I'm also concerned about the fact that Juliet is trying to imply they are Dr. Wilgy. Why? If it is Wilgyi would be inclined to think he is good, but if it is not actually Wilgy, I am inclined to think they are trying to appear as Wilgy to look more benign.

[Spooky Ghost]

Alright so.... What does that mean?

Means I no longer give a shit.

Too stressful to care about a game that doesn't reward you with info anyways.

I just wanna have a good time and spell funny words. Like... FIB and.... and IF

Let RNG hunt down mafia.

Linki - and here comes I to rain on F's parade.

Yeah, I don't agree with that. No flips doesn't completely remove our ability to find baddies, it just changes the fundamentals available to use to find them. Like sprityo said we just have to "git gud"

[Kent Brockman]

I'm also concerned about the fact that Juliet is trying to imply they are Dr. Wilgy. Why? If it is Wilgyi would be inclined to think he is good, but if it is not actually Wilgy, I am inclined to think they are trying to appear as Wilgy to look more benign.

What if the Doc isn't even playing? I don't think we are allowed to out others.

Wilgy isn't the only player that gimmicks from time to time too.

Doesn't change how I feel about this however.

[Kent Brockman]

I'm also concerned about the fact that Juliet is trying to imply they are Dr. Wilgy. Why? If it is Wilgyi would be inclined to think he is good, but if it is not actually Wilgy, I am inclined to think they are trying to appear as Wilgy to look more benign.

Hmmm...

Golf your bad aren't you?

[Chuck]

I'm also concerned about the fact that Juliet is trying to imply they are Dr. Wilgy. Why? If it is Wilgyi would be inclined to think he is good, but if it is not actually Wilgy, I am inclined to think they are trying to appear as Wilgy to look more benign.

I do not know why you would assume that, or what relevance it would have on the alignment of Juliet.
Catch up on your reading. I was the one who suggested gimmicks, and Juliet is following that, I think.

I am employing a gimmick as well, though a subtle one.

[Lunatella]

I moved my vote to Juliet for two reasons: 1. Self preservation. 2. I don't trust that she is who she wants us to think she is.

[Lunatella]

I'm also concerned about the fact that Juliet is trying to imply they are Dr. Wilgy. Why? If it is Wilgyi would be inclined to think he is good, but if it is not actually Wilgy, I am inclined to think they are trying to appear as Wilgy to look more benign.

I do not know why you would assume that, or what relevance it would have on the alignment of Juliet.
Catch up on your reading. I was the one who suggested gimmicks, and Juliet is following that, I think.

I am employing a gimmick as well, though a subtle one.

It's more than a gimmick, she has referred to herself as Dr. J.

[Kent Brockman]

I'm also concerned about the fact that Juliet is trying to imply they are Dr. Wilgy. Why? If it is Wilgyi would be inclined to think he is good, but if it is not actually Wilgy, I am inclined to think they are trying to appear as Wilgy to look more benign.

Hmmm...

Golf your bad aren't you?

To add to this. One of Juliet or Kilo is on your team.

I'm also concerned about the fact that Juliet is trying to imply they are Dr. Wilgy. Why? If it is Wilgyi would be inclined to think he is good, but if it is not actually Wilgy, I am inclined to think they are trying to appear as Wilgy to look more benign.

I do not know why you would assume that, or what relevance it would have on the alignment of Juliet.
Catch up on your reading. I was the one who suggested gimmicks, and Juliet is following that, I think.

I am employing a gimmick as well, though a subtle one.

It's more than a gimmick, she has referred to herself as Dr. J.

Well, I'm most definitely a doctor. Am I Wilgy?

[Spooky Ghost]

Also, lynching people as we normally would is about as likely to get mafia as doing so sequentially, the only difference is that it allows the mafia opportunities to manipulate shit, which we can catch them in.

[Spooky Ghost]

I thought Dr. J was just a pun on Dr. Dre.