The Syndicate

Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:38 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:36 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:32 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:30 pm I find it hard to scumread HK because he is hard Alison-siding. If he is trying to pocket me as a wolf he is essentially giving me a doublevote to do so. His thoughts aligned with mine on both Made and Kami and I think Kami is scum so it is a good look that he moved off Made to park on Kami after she threw a tantrum. If HK is scum he is either townsiding in which case we should force him to continue voting his teammates or I am barking up the wrong tree, which I don't think I am.

he was a doublevote for u for maybe like the first bit of the game but then his vote flip flopped every which way throughout the rest of the day

riddle me this, in a world that kami is mod confirmed town, what alignment do u think HK is?

If Kami is mod confirmed town HK is outed wolf. In that world I would be completely off base D1 and HK is doing the thing nanook likes to do where he hard sheeps people with bad reads and lets them self destruct.

why can't HK just be wrong town

When Alison is super wrong D1 wolves always sheep. They know it is a great way to pocket me and they know I will blow up the town if I am that far off base.

That he is also a counterwagon to Made raises that possibility higher.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm If fingersplints is mafia, who are her teammates?

I think that's a better question.

I see no reason why splints can't be mafia with Kami. They have practically no interactions.

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:38 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm Flipping the question around on you. If Kami is mod confirmed scum, what alignment is HK?

probs town given that some of their exchanges look pretty genuine

I agree. I think Kami is likely scum. Therefore I find it hard to get behind a HK wagon while Kami is still alive.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:45 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:38 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm Flipping the question around on you. If Kami is mod confirmed scum, what alignment is HK?

probs town given that some of their exchanges look pretty genuine

I agree. I think Kami is likely scum. Therefore I find it hard to get behind a HK wagon while Kami is still alive.

is there any other meat to your case besides "bad reads" and possible tmi on made?

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:45 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm If fingersplints is mafia, who are her teammates?

I think that's a better question.

I see no reason why splints can't be mafia with Kami. They have practically no interactions.

I would prefer fingersplints first.

I have a host of reasons I'll post in a bit, but I believe Kami from what I've witnessed would lack persuasion among teammates as a teammate.

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:47 pm is there any other meat to your case besides "bad reads" and possible tmi on made?

Throwing an anti-town temper tantrum with a heavy dose of AtE. Constantly tries to discredit and undermine me.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:48 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:45 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm If fingersplints is mafia, who are her teammates?

I think that's a better question.

I see no reason why splints can't be mafia with Kami. They have practically no interactions.

I would prefer fingersplints first.

I have a host of reasons I'll post in a bit, but I believe Kami from what I've witnessed would lack persuasion among teammates as a teammate.

did she use adverbs and not respond to everyone within a quote pyramid

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:48 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:45 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm If fingersplints is mafia, who are her teammates?

I think that's a better question.

I see no reason why splints can't be mafia with Kami. They have practically no interactions.

I would prefer fingersplints first.

I have a host of reasons I'll post in a bit, but I believe Kami from what I've witnessed would lack persuasion among teammates as a teammate.

That was phrased badly.

"Would lack persuasion among civilians as a teammate of mafia."

I have found fingersplints to be very obvious as town when she is town. She is not obvious as town here.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:50 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:47 pm is there any other meat to your case besides "bad reads" and possible tmi on made?

Throwing an anti-town temper tantrum with a heavy dose of AtE. Constantly tries to discredit and undermine me.

im in the same boat as u here but under the belief that it's just a confbiased villager

that case on Kami is essentially "because of who she is as a person"

Kami's play this game is identical to my last game with her, where she was town

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:54 pm that case on Kami is essentially "because of who she is as a person"

Kami's play this game is identical to my last game with her, where she was town

kinda got this vibe

got it from hollow who decided she was scum for it o.O

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:56 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:54 pm that case on Kami is essentially "because of who she is as a person"

Kami's play this game is identical to my last game with her, where she was town

kinda got this vibe

got it from hollow who decided she was scum for it o.O

yeah weird how that works huh

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:54 pm that case on Kami is essentially "because of who she is as a person"

Kami's play this game is identical to my last game with her, where she was town

Personality could explain the tantrum and AtE stuff. At a stretch, maybe even the discrediting of my reads.

It doesn't explain my other points about her, which is that I find her reads nonsensical and backed with little to no explanation along with my point that she likely has TMI on Made.

Kami wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:46 am trans ur making reads up LMAO
when did anyone TMI? Made surely didn't.

Saying someone is TMI seems like a mafia slip considering it's basically an excuse to call someone mafia with zero back up behind it, just a throw away phrase to seem solvey

I love this post with the context of Alison saying Kami has TMI

with Alison trying her best to steer us away from HK and attempting to bury Kami in turn, Kami's ISO looks rather interesting

I think Kami is dead wrong on Falcon and Doggy but she strongly associates Alison and HK

this is funny, Kami's "TMI" is that she thinks Made was obvious town

ok

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:05 pm I think Kami is dead wrong on Falcon and Doggy but she strongly associates Alison and HK

i think kami just entered the game randomizing the player list and the top 4 names were who she was going to push the entire game. she's pushed all 4 of us since the very start of the game lmfao.

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:03 pm

Kami wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:46 am trans ur making reads up LMAO
when did anyone TMI? Made surely didn't.

Saying someone is TMI seems like a mafia slip considering it's basically an excuse to call someone mafia with zero back up behind it, just a throw away phrase to seem solvey

I love this post with the context of Alison saying Kami has TMI

She said as much when I initially accused Kami of TMI way before this post. I made a huge post explaining why her read on Made falls into that category.

POST 200 MOTHER TRUCKERS!!!!

time to go celebrate by going outside smh...

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:06 pm this is funny, Kami's "TMI" is that she thinks Made was obvious town

ok

Do you think Made was obvious town?

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:08 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:06 pm this is funny, Kami's "TMI" is that she thinks Made was obvious town

ok

Do you think Made was obvious town?

his posts EOD were pretty decent

but you're damning Kami for her confidence when you post shit like "HK is town because he's sheeping me and my reads are amazing and right"

Since I'm voting fingerplsints, and fingerplsints is the only person who has defended me, I want to go through her posts:

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:05 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:43 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:40 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:37 pm This is fun, the number of people willing to poke a fight with me here makes me think I'm onto something. Probably not everything, but something.

You have 25 posts and this is the beginning of a Mafia game on a very vocal site. Don't please yourself on that basis.

25 out of ~250. Even if you think I am possibly a wolf, I don't see the point of this post, discouraging me from scumhunting?

Either way, since you're being stubborn, I will ISO Made and let you know my thoughts (even though I've already given some) so you can FINALLY talk about Falcon (whom you've been defending - on purpose? Inadvertently? who knows? Nook.)...

Have you played with Epignosis before?

This is fine.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:30 am

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:49 am shrug maybe so

but why is epi being such a contrarian

is this typical behavior of him to be like "hurr durr this dude is scum but im not gonna tell u why"?

Absolutely normal for Epi

This is too.

At this point, I'd say fingersplints is searching for credit by calling what is "normal" for me- most folks here don't know me. I'm not trying to be ugly here, but here's the thing:

At no point does fingersplints say, "Absolutely normal for Epi, but here is why he's bad," OR "Absolutely normal for Epi, so here's my opinion of you."

There's no progression for or against me or anyone else here.

That's fine so far. In ages past, that was how things went on The Syndicate. That's why I wasn't really alarmed.

What bothers me is what comes after:

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:55 am I’m finished reading now. Still need some time to think, but immediate reactions are

I think Seanzie vs Epi is probably town vs town. Just a feeling if one of them was a wolf they would have moved on or let it go sooner or something.

I’ve never played with Transcend before, but I think they come off all right so far.

I think I see some of what I associate with town Alison. Not enough to defend or vote to save or anything at this point, but I think she’s ok for now.

I’ve seen some decent points made about Made but at least one I disagree with ( the posts about him conveniently returning to the thread as if scum buddies told them to get in. That’s almost never actually the case. People just post when they want to) did I read correctly he had 6 votes at one point though? That seems a lot for this early.

EnderWiggin seems very different then the last game I played with him when he was town. Just something I’m watching.

I’m trying to remember if there was anything else but my kids demanding attention

"If one of them was a wolf they would have moved on or let it go sooner or something."

fingersplints said that about me (and Seanzie).

Circling back to an earlier opinion of me, fingersplints concurred with others that I am contrarian and stubborn.

Contrarian and stubborn people don't "let it go sooner or something."

Therefore fingersplints has no reason to call me a civilian, especially in light of a spat with Seanzie, whom she knows EVEN LESS.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:59 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:02 am

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:55 am I’m finished reading now. Still need some time to think, but immediate reactions are

I think Seanzie vs Epi is probably town vs town. Just a feeling if one of them was a wolf they would have moved on or let it go sooner or something.

I’ve never played with Transcend before, but I think they come off all right so far.

I think I see some of what I associate with town Alison. Not enough to defend or vote to save or anything at this point, but I think she’s ok for now.

I’ve seen some decent points made about Made but at least one I disagree with ( the posts about him conveniently returning to the thread as if scum buddies told them to get in. That’s almost never actually the case. People just post when they want to) did I read correctly he had 6 votes at one point though? That seems a lot for this early.

EnderWiggin seems very different then the last game I played with him when he was town. Just something I’m watching.

I’m trying to remember if there was anything else but my kids demanding attention

1) Why? Wolves love getting sucked into unproductive fights that spiral into a dozen-page-long horror show and make the rest of the town unable to do any real solving. I'm scumreading neither Seanzie nor Epi, but this is an odd reason to call their fight TvT.

2) What do you make of that?

1. Depends on the person if they would love that as a wolf. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a wolf Seanzie before, and tbh I wouldn’t say it’s out of the possibility for a wolf Epi to act in this manner, but just seems more likely to be town to me based on tone. Back to Seanzie, he seemed frustrated at Epi’s stubbornness at times but the questioning still seemed like he was still genuinely trying to solve.

2. If the 6 votes had stayed longer, it would have made me feel like perhaps Made was just an easy target for wolves. But I’m wondering if there is any merit to the points and if some were just scum buddies getting in early votes in case he flipped but then moved away when the suspicion died down. TBD

"I don't think I've ever seen a wolf Seanzie before."

Okay, but...

"I think Seanzie vs Epi is probably town vs town. Just a feeling if one of them was a wolf they would have moved on or let it go sooner or something."

There is no reason for fingersplints to believe this.

I'm "town based on tone" (never got that before!) and Seanzie seemed "genuinely trying to solve."

In addition to this is that there's a big point in Made's favor that never came up again when fingersplints voted for him.

Here's the Made thing I posted earlier:

alison can be wolf, as a treat

your case is pretty boring, epi

but keep putting in work I guess

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:12 pm your case is pretty boring, epi

I'm not here to entertain you, princess.

you should be

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:13 pmyou should be

I have a signature.

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:09 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:08 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:06 pm this is funny, Kami's "TMI" is that she thinks Made was obvious town

ok

Do you think Made was obvious town?

his posts EOD were pretty decent

but you're damning Kami for her confidence when you post shit like "HK is town because he's sheeping me and my reads are amazing and right"

Kami had a strong townread on Made long before EOD.

But the difference between town confidence and TMI is that people with the former have actual reasons for their reads and people with the latter don't, because they got their info from the mod, which means they find it harder to articulate explanations in a convincing way. This is why holding people accountable for their reads and checking their progressions and logic is so important. See:

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:38 pm Confidence =/= TMI.

Confidence without evidence = TMI.

The basic concept of TMI is that the wolves know exactly who is town and who is mafia so they don't have to do things like read posts or examine pushes to find out people's alignments. These are things that townies have to do. If someone has done nothing townie, and you confidently townread them but find yourself unable to explain what exactly they have done that is townie, I am inclined to think that you have gotten your information about them from a source beyond reading their posts and examining their pushes. This is the basis of my accusation against you.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:15 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:09 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:08 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:06 pm this is funny, Kami's "TMI" is that she thinks Made was obvious town

ok

Do you think Made was obvious town?

his posts EOD were pretty decent

but you're damning Kami for her confidence when you post shit like "HK is town because he's sheeping me and my reads are amazing and right"

Kami had a strong townread on Made long before EOD.

But the difference between town confidence and TMI is that people with the former have actual reasons for their reads and people with the latter don't, because they got their info from the mod, which means they find it harder to articulate explanations in a convincing way. This is why holding people accountable for their reads and checking their progressions and logic is so important. See:

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:38 pm Confidence =/= TMI.

Confidence without evidence = TMI.

The basic concept of TMI is that the wolves know exactly who is town and who is mafia so they don't have to do things like read posts or examine pushes to find out people's alignments. These are things that townies have to do. If someone has done nothing townie, and you confidently townread them but find yourself unable to explain what exactly they have done that is townie, I am inclined to think that you have gotten your information about them from a source beyond reading their posts and examining their pushes. This is the basis of my accusation against you.

Do you suspect fingersplints stronger or Kami stronger, and what is the basis for the strength of those suspicions?

I suspect Kami more than fingersplints. My reasons to scumread Kami are: a) I think she has TMI on Made, as I've explained at length; b) I think her play has been anti-town; c) I think AtE is scummy; d) her reads are awful and lack explanation; and e) she has spent the entire game attempting to discredit my reads. My reasons to scumread splints are that she has not been obvious town which I know she usually is as town, and that she had a hedgy stance on Made.

I have not read your giant walls of text casing her yet.

I skimmed it. I think your point about her read of you and Seanzie being TvT (and dare I say, TMI) is fine. I said as much when she first made that read. I agree with your suspicions, and I have Kami and splints as top suspects. I think I suspect Kami slightly more still, but I would love if the two of them were competing wagons.

Start of day sheep of Alison engaged.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:22 pm I skimmed it. I think your point about her read of you and Seanzie being TvT (and dare I say, TMI) is fine. I said as much when she first made that read. I agree with your suspicions, and I have Kami and splints as top suspects. I think I suspect Kami slightly more still, but I would love if the two of them were competing wagons.

assuming a world where sean/epi are both town

which is worse, tmi on one dude or tmi on two dudes

anyone wanna be my doublevote lol

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:27 pm anyone wanna be my doublevote lol

ok

nice, i like this already

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:25 pm Start of day sheep of Alison engaged.

bad

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:27 pm anyone wanna be my doublevote lol

I can be your double vote another time.

You/Esooa are my top trs rn anyway.

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:26 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:22 pm I skimmed it. I think your point about her read of you and Seanzie being TvT (and dare I say, TMI) is fine. I said as much when she first made that read. I agree with your suspicions, and I have Kami and splints as top suspects. I think I suspect Kami slightly more still, but I would love if the two of them were competing wagons.

assuming a world where sean/epi are both town

which is worse, tmi on one dude or tmi on two dudes

I think calling a squabble between two players TvT is less blatant than calling someone who did nothing townie "the towniest player in the game". This is sort of splitting hairs though. I am happy to exe splints as well.

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:28 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:25 pm Start of day sheep of Alison engaged.

bad

Yes, and?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:28 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:27 pm anyone wanna be my doublevote lol

I can be your double vote another time.

You/Esooa are my top trs rn anyway.

Why are you doublevoting for me and not your top TRs?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:29 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:28 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:25 pm Start of day sheep of Alison engaged.

bad

Yes, and?

stop bad

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:29 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:28 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:27 pm anyone wanna be my doublevote lol

I can be your double vote another time.

You/Esooa are my top trs rn anyway.

Why are you doublevoting for me and not your top TRs?

1. Reasons stated d1
2. I think you're town too, just not as lock as Trans/Esooa
3. I like the Kami push
4. I read the fortune charts.

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:29 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:29 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:28 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:25 pm Start of day sheep of Alison engaged.

bad

Yes, and?

stop bad

But bad feels good.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:29 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:26 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:22 pm I skimmed it. I think your point about her read of you and Seanzie being TvT (and dare I say, TMI) is fine. I said as much when she first made that read. I agree with your suspicions, and I have Kami and splints as top suspects. I think I suspect Kami slightly more still, but I would love if the two of them were competing wagons.

assuming a world where sean/epi are both town

which is worse, tmi on one dude or tmi on two dudes

I think calling a squabble between two players TvT is less blatant than calling someone who did nothing townie "the towniest player in the game". This is sort of splitting hairs though. I am happy to exe splints as well.

you are so convincing lmfao

but i also want to trust myself in that she's just a willager

hMmmmmMmmmmmmM

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:28 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:27 pm anyone wanna be my doublevote lol

I can be your double vote another time.

You/Esooa are my top trs rn anyway.

why me