The Syndicate

Less than ninety minutes and very little has been said. I feel like people just wait for a bandwagon to form and then jump on one.

May as well make one.

*votes thellama73*

Let me see:

Boomslang- Would not vote
INH- Would vote
Juliets- Would vote
Long Con- Would vote
Made- Would not vote
nijuukyugou- Would not vote
Quin- Would vote
Scotty- Would vote
Sorsha- Would not vote
thellama73- Would vote

Epignosis wrote:Let me see:

Boomslang- Would not vote
INH- Would vote
Juliets- Would vote
Long Con- Would vote
Made- Would not vote
nijuukyugou- Would not vote
Quin- Would vote
Scotty- Would vote
Sorsha- Would not vote
thellama73- Would vote

So, your suspects are me, Juliets, LC, Quin, Scotty, and Llama?

Making your townreads Boomslang, Made, Niju, and Sorsha.

Why Juliets and Scotty in particular?

insertnamehere wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Let me see:

Boomslang- Would not vote
INH- Would vote
Juliets- Would vote
Long Con- Would vote
Made- Would not vote
nijuukyugou- Would not vote
Quin- Would vote
Scotty- Would vote
Sorsha- Would not vote
thellama73- Would vote

So, your suspects are me, Juliets, LC, Quin, Scotty, and Llama?

Making your townreads Boomslang, Made, Niju, and Sorsha.

Why Juliets and Scotty in particular?

I have no reason not to suspect them. That's all.

insertnamehere wrote:May as well make one.

*votes thellama73*

So...

You think the Day 1 lynch was between a pair of teammates, and Wilgy chose to try to save their protector instead of either their blocker or Overalls.

I am inclined to believe that a mafia protector role exists for a reason. There is a secret for the civilians, there is a secret role, and there are prizes going out. It only makes sense that there is a threat to the mafia in another form than lynches, unless the protection extends to lynches the following Day, which, given that Mongoose is giving those out like Halloween candy, makes sense to me.

So is that what you believe happened Day 1?

Long Con wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Okay, I think I get who you're thinking it is.

I feel like it's so obvious that I would say the name... but better safe than sorry.

Now that you see it, do you feel me on the Llama thing, or am I jumping to conclusions?

I don't think the other person you think is hinting at the role is actually hinting at that role. He's given other reasons for what he's been doing.

Epignosis wrote:Less than ninety minutes and very little has been said. I feel like people just wait for a bandwagon to form and then jump on one.

Day ends tomorrow, not tonight

Sorsha wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Less than ninety minutes and very little has been said. I feel like people just wait for a bandwagon to form and then jump on one.

Day ends tomorrow, not tonight

Spot on, you are.

Epignosis wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:May as well make one.

*votes thellama73*

So...

You think the Day 1 lynch was between a pair of teammates, and Wilgy chose to try to save their protector instead of either their blocker or Overalls.

So is that what you believe happened Day 1?

Yes.

I am inclined to believe that a mafia protector role exists for a reason. There is a secret for the civilians, there is a secret role, and there are prizes going out. It only makes sense that there is a threat to the mafia in another form than lynches, unless the protection extends to lynches the following Day, which, given that Mongoose is giving those out like Halloween candy, makes sense to me.

Well, we know the super secret role was Elo being an indie, win-with-whoever type. There is the potential for the secret civ role to be a vigilante who has the ability to kill once or twice in the game. But still, Jnco seems like a fairly weak role, except to maybe protect other teammates from blocks or silences.

It makes sense that Wilgy would be willing to sacrifice DDL in order to protect Llama, especially if Llama is Overalls.

I'm a little worried that if he is, lynching him will only undo a single strap, and we'll have to do it again in order to be rid of him for good.

Epignosis wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Let me see:

Boomslang- Would not vote
INH- Would vote
Juliets- Would vote
Long Con- Would vote
Made- Would not vote
nijuukyugou- Would not vote
Quin- Would vote
Scotty- Would vote
Sorsha- Would not vote
thellama73- Would vote

So, your suspects are me, Juliets, LC, Quin, Scotty, and Llama?

Making your townreads Boomslang, Made, Niju, and Sorsha.

Why Juliets and Scotty in particular?

I have no reason not to suspect them. That's all.

So you believe that MP was potentially bad and voted for himself?

insertnamehere wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:May as well make one.

*votes thellama73*

So...

You think the Day 1 lynch was between a pair of teammates, and Wilgy chose to try to save their protector instead of either their blocker or Overalls.

So is that what you believe happened Day 1?

Yes.

I am inclined to believe that a mafia protector role exists for a reason. There is a secret for the civilians, there is a secret role, and there are prizes going out. It only makes sense that there is a threat to the mafia in another form than lynches, unless the protection extends to lynches the following Day, which, given that Mongoose is giving those out like Halloween candy, makes sense to me.

Well, we know the super secret role was Elo being an indie, win-with-whoever type. There is the potential for the secret civ role to be a vigilante who has the ability to kill once or twice in the game. But still, Jnco seems like a fairly weak role, except to maybe protect other teammates from blocks or silences.

It makes sense that Wilgy would be willing to sacrifice DDL in order to protect Llama, especially if Llama is Overalls.

I'm a little worried that if he is, lynching him will only undo a single strap, and we'll have to do it again in order to be rid of him for good.

Riddle me how lynching him would possibly undo a strap.

Like, a) what would be the point, because obviously we would just lynch him again the next day, and b) how would it decide which strap to unloose? If one is unbuttoned, how is there an option then for the other strap to be unbuttoned?

juliets wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Let me see:

Boomslang- Would not vote
INH- Would vote
Juliets- Would vote
Long Con- Would vote
Made- Would not vote
nijuukyugou- Would not vote
Quin- Would vote
Scotty- Would vote
Sorsha- Would not vote
thellama73- Would vote

So, your suspects are me, Juliets, LC, Quin, Scotty, and Llama?

Making your townreads Boomslang, Made, Niju, and Sorsha.

Why Juliets and Scotty in particular?

I have no reason not to suspect them. That's all.

So you believe that MP was potentially bad and voted for himself?

Now see you've brought this up again unprompted and it really makes me want to shake my metastick to the rain gods. That MP would 'never do that as a baddie' is not a path I want to ever go down. People do that, yes. MP could be doing that regardless of alignment, yes.

Epi, of LC and llama, who would you rather vote for if the poll ended tonight?

Scotty wrote:Epi, of LC and llama, who would you rather vote for if the poll ended tonight?

LC.

The scenario I outlined above I find implausible. Moreover, 3J suspected him more than anybody. Additionally, LC voted against lynching DDL Day 1, and then voted 3J twice.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sooooo, about that rezz.

I'll be handing out 16 of them soon, just hold tight.

[Deathless World of Mongoose]

Hey, I've been out drinking g and throwing axes for a birthday tonight so I'm not going to say too much right now... posting on my phone in the car on the way home. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may very well be) but wasn't it Epi who said earlier that MP wouldn't self vote as a baddie? And now Juliets is on his baddie list? Or was it Llama who was saying that... don't remember. Thought it was Epi.

Long Con wrote:Hey, I've been out drinking g and throwing axes for a birthday tonight so I'm not going to say too much right now... posting on my phone in the car on the way home. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may very well be) but wasn't it Epi who said earlier that MP wouldn't self vote as a baddie? And now Juliets is on his baddie list? Or was it Llama who was saying that... don't remember. Thought it was Epi.

"MP would never do that if he was bad."

-something Epignosis would never say.

Ok, pardon me sir, someone made that assertion a couple of times.

Long Con wrote:Ok, pardon me sir, someone made that assertion a couple of times.

No worries. I do recall someone saying that.

Mongoose wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sooooo, about that rezz.

I'll be handing out 16 of them soon, just hold tight.

[Deathless World of Mongoose]

Could I get a cup of coffee while I'm waiting?

I imagine the Deathless World of Mongoose has coffee (or tea).

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sooooo, about that rezz.

I'll be handing out 16 of them soon, just hold tight.

[Deathless World of Mongoose]

Could I get a cup of coffee while I'm waiting?

I imagine the Deathless World of Mongoose has coffee (or tea).

I actually have two vessels of tea right now! I have one mug of hot detox tea, which is nice and warming. And then next to it is a tumbler of an herbal tea (a loose blend called Lemon Meringue). The hot I am drinking first because I got cold, but then the iced because I know the hot will warm me up toooo much.

I would never deny anyone coffee; I'm not a monster.

Mongoose, what does the mafia protection protect from? Please and thank you.

Epignosis wrote:Mongoose, what does the mafia protection protect from? Please and thank you.

Are you asking about the JnCo role? It works like the Civ blocker role. I might need clarification on what you're asking.

Mongoose wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Mongoose, what does the mafia protection protect from? Please and thank you.

Are you asking about the JnCo role? It works like the Civ blocker role. I might need clarification on what you're asking.

Yes, Jnco- it says it protects a player. What does that protection protect from?

Epignosis wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Mongoose, what does the mafia protection protect from? Please and thank you.

Are you asking about the JnCo role? It works like the Civ blocker role. I might need clarification on what you're asking.

Yes, Jnco- it says it protects a player. What does that protection protect from?

Please don't get mad at this request - but I'm going to need you to be more specific - you've just repeated your initial question

Mongoose wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Mongoose, what does the mafia protection protect from? Please and thank you.

Are you asking about the JnCo role? It works like the Civ blocker role. I might need clarification on what you're asking.

Yes, Jnco- it says it protects a player. What does that protection protect from?

Please don't get mad at this request - but I'm going to need you to be more specific - you've just repeated your initial question

In my understanding, a protection keeps the target from being killed.

Jnco protects a player. Does that mean if Jnco targets Hedgeowl, then Hedgeowl merely survives if she is targeted with a kill?

Or does it mean something else?

I think the Denim Suit targeted Mongoose last night.

Mongoose, what we're wondering is, what the hell do the baddies need a protection for... the Civs don't have a kill! Lay it out for us straight up.

Epignosis wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Mongoose, what does the mafia protection protect from? Please and thank you.

Are you asking about the JnCo role? It works like the Civ blocker role. I might need clarification on what you're asking.

Yes, Jnco- it says it protects a player. What does that protection protect from?

Please don't get mad at this request - but I'm going to need you to be more specific - you've just repeated your initial question

In my understanding, a protection keeps the target from being killed.

Jnco protects a player. Does that mean if Jnco targets Hedgeowl, then Hedgeowl merely survives if she is targeted with a kill?

Or does it mean something else?

It's straightforward like your first example. There's not any hidden secrets with it or anything, if that is what you were after.

My understanding is that a protect only works against kills. Are you saying the protect works against all Night actions?

I lay it out there like this:

Jnco protects Hedgeowl. Nevinera targets Hedgeowl with a kill and Clover targets Hedgeowl with a silence the same Night. Does:

A) Hedgeowl die?
B) Hedgeowl survive but is silenced?
C) Hedgeowl survive but is not silenced?
D) None of the above?

Epignosis wrote:My understanding is that a protect only works against kills. Are you saying the protect works against all Night actions?

I lay it out there like this:

Jnco protects Hedgeowl. Nevinera targets Hedgeowl with a kill and Clover targets Hedgeowl with a silence the same Night. Does:

A) Hedgeowl die?
B) Hedgeowl survive but is silenced?
C) Hedgeowl survive but is not silenced?
D) None of the above?

C

Again, sorry I made this difficult, that was not my intention.

Mongoose wrote:

Epignosis wrote:My understanding is that a protect only works against kills. Are you saying the protect works against all Night actions?

I lay it out there like this:

Jnco protects Hedgeowl. Nevinera targets Hedgeowl with a kill and Clover targets Hedgeowl with a silence the same Night. Does:

A) Hedgeowl die?
B) Hedgeowl survive but is silenced?
C) Hedgeowl survive but is not silenced?
D) None of the above?

C

Again, sorry I made this difficult, that was not my intention.

Awesome.

Did the mafia know that?

I hadn't remembered from so long ago that that was how Protect Roles worked, so I guess you can just add it to the tally of blunders.

u fine boo

Long Con what do you think about Made? What do the rest of you think about Made (except Epi, I already know what you think).

I am not likely to vote llama today because he appears to be silenced. I don't vote for people who are silenced unless I feel confident in their guilt and I am far from confidant about llama.

Made, I looked back at Felt 1 and you were the second highest poster. Here, you are the lowest poster that is still alive including me who has only been in the game for a day. This looks to me like you are laying low, leading me to believe you might be bad. Tell me why I am wrong.

juliets wrote:Long Con what do you think about Made? What do the rest of you think about Made (except Epi, I already know what you think).

I am not likely to vote llama today because he appears to be silenced. I don't vote for people who are silenced unless I feel confident in their guilt and I am far from confidant about llama.

Made was relevant in the Wilgy lynch in an unexpected way.

Day 2:

JaggedJimmyJ
6
Boomslang (8), Quin (10), insertnamehere (12), Sorsha (13), Long Con (15), Made (16) 35%

Day 3:

DrWilgy
8
Scotty (4), thellama73 (7), Boomslang (8), Sorsha (10), nijuukyugou (11), Made (12), Elohcin (14), Metalmarsh89 (15) 53%

JaggedJimmyJay
3
Long Con (2), insertnamehere (6), Quin (9) 20%

Instead of sticking with his Day 2 vote and making it 5-4, Made made (heh) the deficit against Wilgy harder to come back against. Here's what Made said:

Made wrote:Do we know ties=no lynch?

thellama73 wrote:@Made, yes we know that.

Made wrote:Won't vote JJJ because doing so making it possible for Wilgy or someone else to tie it up so voting Wilgy. I don't really see what's there, but a lynch is better than no lynch.

Made's concern was that a lynch happened, even if he didn't agree with the outcome. He could have easily stuck with his 3J vote and tried to keep Wilgy alive. I think that is a strong point in Made's favor.

In the scenario where Made is bad, it would mean he saw the ship sailing on his teammate, and so he threw a vote down for credibility, pretending to care about ties creating a no-lynch situation. That's just not what I see when I look at the timing of his posts.

I agree that the strongest point in Made's favor is his concern about tying the vote up with a JJJ vote. I hadn't thought about - until you pointed it out - that it would have been the most consistent vote he could have made given that he voted for JJJ on day 2. I'm going to remove Made for consideration for a vote today.

I'm going to go get some exercise before we get stormy weather and when I get back I'll consider who I've narrowed the vote down to for today.

Mongoose wrote:My protect roles protect against all night actions. Is that what you needed to know? I promise I am not trying to be obtuse. To me, it's a very basic role and maybe that's why I'm having trouble understand what you are asking. I had a Protect role in the first Felt Mafia game, and no one seemed to think it was weird then -- maybe it's just one of the numerous outdated mechanics in this?

ohhhhh uhhhh

Mongoose wrote:

Scotty wrote:Hey @Mongoose!

When you say Mom Jeans "protect" a player, does that exclusively mean protect from a kill attempt, or does it also protect from a non-killing action affecting them as well?

Protect from mortal wounds only.

So now I'm doubly confused.

It sounds like the civ protect only protects from kills, but the mafia protect protected from everything.

Either way, Jnco is dead now, so that's a moot point there. But now am I to believe that Mom Jeans really does protect from all night actions?

I was thinking that Llama and Made might be the last two baddies. I forget why at the moment, but Epi makes a good point about Made.

Llama, however... I'm sure he's bad. I'm very confident that lynching him is the right move. Him being silenced doesn't really make a difference to me, I'm sure he can come up with reasonable-sounding explanations for the baddie indicators I've found, but it's not going to change my mind. I'm going to cast my vote now, because there's no real point in waiting, since he's not going to say anything.

If his role-hint was true, then he'll survive the lynch. If he dies and is Civ (unlikely) then he's already expressed, several times over, how okay that is because he can win while dead.

I have a list of folks who are Civ, and he ain't on it... and of those remaining, there is no one more suspicious to me. Llama is Mafia, and he should be lynched today.

*votes Llama*

Quin, what do you think of me?

Long Con wrote:Llama, however... I'm sure he's bad. I'm very confident that lynching him is the right move.

Now where have I heard that before?

Long Con wrote:I have come to believe that JJJ is definitely bad. Voted JJJ.

Oh right.

Scotty wrote:

Long Con wrote:Llama, however... I'm sure he's bad. I'm very confident that lynching him is the right move.

Now where have I heard that before?

Long Con wrote:I have come to believe that JJJ is definitely bad. Voted JJJ.

Oh right.

This is different.

Scotty wrote:And thanks for that, Denim suit. 10-4 ole buddy.

What did you mean by this, Scotty?

Scotty wrote:

Mongoose wrote:My protect roles protect against all night actions. Is that what you needed to know? I promise I am not trying to be obtuse. To me, it's a very basic role and maybe that's why I'm having trouble understand what you are asking. I had a Protect role in the first Felt Mafia game, and no one seemed to think it was weird then -- maybe it's just one of the numerous outdated mechanics in this?

ohhhhh uhhhh

Mongoose wrote:

Scotty wrote:Hey @Mongoose!

When you say Mom Jeans "protect" a player, does that exclusively mean protect from a kill attempt, or does it also protect from a non-killing action affecting them as well?

Protect from mortal wounds only.

So now I'm doubly confused.

It sounds like the civ protect only protects from kills, but the mafia protect protected from everything.

Either way, Jnco is dead now, so that's a moot point there. But now am I to believe that Mom Jeans really does protect from all night actions?

Reading back on your question, I am not sure how I misunderstood it the first time other than I am just not the sharpest tool in the box. I think you were asking about passive abiliities not other Night Actions, no idea why except I worked too much that week. When analyzing the actions each night though, I've kept them in conformance with one another. So essentially, the Protect Roles could "protect" against good night actions too. Just like a blocker could block good or bad actions.

Long Con wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Long Con wrote:Llama, however... I'm sure he's bad. I'm very confident that lynching him is the right move.

Now where have I heard that before?

Long Con wrote:I have come to believe that JJJ is definitely bad. Voted JJJ.

Oh right.

This is different.

How is this different?

Ok I have so far ruled out:

Boomslang
Blooper
Sorsha
Scotty
thellama73 - unless someone brings forth evidence that I find compelling
Made
INH - he said he was using his Lynch immunity today so even if I was inclined to vote him I wouldn't do it today.

leaving:

Long Con
Epi
Quin

Epi - if I remember correctly Epi went hard after DDL early on and even though he has been known to bus people, including DDL, I remember thinking and other people saying that this was different. I need to go back and re-read Epi's attack and make sure I still see it that way but assuming I do, Epi would move to the "not voting" list.

Long Con - JJJ's read on LC was bad though what I remember most from 3J's reads is it seemed like he thought LC was bad because of LC's read of him. I think there had to be more to it than that though so I need to review JJJ's reads. From my own vantage point I feel like LC took calculated aim at llama today, finding reasons to find him bad that were tenuous at best. He first said he thought llama had hinted at being denim shirt but he could not be denim shirt because someone else had hinted more broadly at that role. He implied llama lied about the hint. I don't think llama was hinting because as I pointed out in a subsequent post llama expressed regret that dead people couldn't win in this game on a day where he was up for lynch until Mongoose came along and said indeed they could. I don't think he would have expressed that regret if he was hinting that he was denim shirt. Long Con then started going through llama's posts and brought out some points but I did not find them compelling. I don't know if he finished going through llama's posts but if he did he didn't find anything else to bring out. I feel like LC picked llama knowing that Quin and INH had both expressed distrust of llama and would likely vote for him which would offset votes that might come in for LC because people had started to fall away from suspecting Quin and INH leaving only Long Con out of the INH/Quin/LC triumvirate.

Quin - I keep going back to early in the game when Elo, who I believe was the blocker, expressed suspicion of Quin. I do believe she blocked him the night of the failed kill. Quin even seemed to believe that she blocked him. It's possible though that Quin did not target Boomslang and Boomslang was protected that night. I go round and round with this thinking, like a dog chasing it's tail. Quin also has some suspicions that I find odd (Boomslang for example) but that could just as easily point to the fact that he is civ and not afraid to express tinfoil suspicions instead of falling in line behind the main attention getters. I guess I am worried about Quin because I saw in Mad Max how he fooled people so skillfully as a baddie. I might revisit that game and see if I can make any solid distinctions between his activities there and here.

So thats where my thinking is as of now. I'm still willing to consider llama if anyone can bring forward arguments that are compelling. Otherwise I am giving him the benefit of the doubt today because of the silencing. My actions at this point are:

1. Review Epi's attack on DDL from early in the game
2. Review JJJ's case on Long Con
3. Review Quin's actions in Mad Max

I would appreciate any feedback people might have on my thoughts, especially things that I might have missed about anyone on either of my lists.