The Syndicate

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm**

Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 6:06 pm**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:46 pm @Wiml your reaction to me voting you near EoD was odd. Why wouldn't you have voted Abigail to save yourself? Why did you feel the need to encourage Epi onto me?

At the time of my posting, the wagons were:

Epignosis - 2 - Abigail, Wiml
Abigail - 1 - Epignosis
Wiml - 1 - Wilgy

I am never, ever letting anybody flip that EoD who isn't in my PoE because that is how we lose the game if the PoE is correct and I am never letting myself flip obviously.

I didn't want Epi to want / need to self pres onto me and I thought he was likely town due to initial refusal to self pres so I basically forced him to vote you as he had no other option.

Epignosis - 1 - Abigail
Wilgy - 2 - Epignosis, Wiml
Wiml - 1 - Wilgy

I knew this would force you to self pres onto Epignosis regardless of if you were initially joking or not and create Epi/Wilgy tied wagons and then give me the deciding vote between the tie or breaking it to flip Epi.

Epignosis - 2 - Abigail, Wilgy
Wilgy - 2 - Epignosis, Wiml

And then at this point I can rest easy that the vote will remain in my PoE and was in two minds about if I was going to switch back to Epi or not due to above-mentioned towniness.

I was aware that Michelle was present but wasn't certain where she would vote between Epi and me so I wanted to remove myself from being a viable wagon entirely to make sure nothing terrible happened there.

Worth noting that I thought you'd likely switch back to Epi but I didn't want to take risks and see a non-PoE player or myself flip, especially because again I was on mobile and unable to self pres last minute.

I'm a slow typer at the best of times so I obviously couldn't fully communicate everything I thought within such a short time period. I just needed to make sure that no funny business happened with me or Abi flipping over last minute.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 6:20 pm**

In addition to the above, I was expecting others to find Epi's lack of self pres towny and potentially move onto a counterwagon.

I wanted that counterwagon to be Wilgy, not Abigail (or me).

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:57 pm**

where's everyone...............................

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:27 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill

It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:44 pm**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:27 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill
It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?

Manipulate you how?
And clear you how?

No, I want to gather more information from you and for that I need you to keep talking about what I think is relevant.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:45 pm**

And for the record I could not give two fucks about what Wiml currently fried brain thinks. I'm asking you.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:48 pm**

The one thing I did ask more broadly and that I'd appreciate Wiml's comment would be an answer on my request for non-meta reasons to townread you (Wilgy) or Roxy in the current game.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:49 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:44 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:27 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill
It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?
Manipulate you how?
And clear you how?

No, I want to gather more information from you and for that I need you to keep talking about what I think is relevant.

You can in asking about it immediately, Wiml had commentary on it immediately. All feels very agenda based on the NK that wolves control. You also ???'d Wiml saying I was spewed now. Your guess is as good as mine.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:50 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:45 pm And for the record I could not give two fucks about what Wiml currently fried brain thinks. I'm asking you.

But why do you feel the need to comment this? The spew comment was made by Wiml in the first place.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:53 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:48 pm The one thing I did ask more broadly and that I'd appreciate Wiml's comment would be an answer on my request for non-meta reasons to townread you (Wilgy) or Roxy in the current game.

Read JJJ's ISO if you want that.

My Roxy read is meta and gut. If Roxy bus'd LC there was quite literally 0 posturing around that. I feel that W Roxy would've made a bigger deal of it ESPECIALLY if they went out of their meta so hard to bus.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:57 pm**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:49 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:44 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:27 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill
It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?
Manipulate you how?
And clear you how?

No, I want to gather more information from you and for that I need you to keep talking about what I think is relevant.
You can in asking about it immediately, Wiml had commentary on it immediately. All feels very agenda based on the NK that wolves control. You also ???'d Wiml saying I was spewed now. Your guess is as good as mine.

Agenda based how? Literally any kill other than you still keeps your place as the priority in the chopping block. What makes the Abgail kill any different if it's to "manipulate" you?

I ??? him because saying it spewed you is an absurd assumption at this point. And his argument is bad. As soon as I subbed in Abgail would be a lot more likely to trust me over you, she was definitely not going to keep being a "vocal defender" of your slot if it had to come down to a showdown between us.

In any case I shouldn't be making an argument to HIS points when I'm here asking for yours.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:50 pm [quote=_ExLight post_id=<a href="tel:1073267">1073267</a> time=<a href="tel:1691545542">1691545542</a> user_id=1179]
And for the record I could not give two fucks about what Wiml currently fried brain thinks. I'm asking you.

But why do you feel the need to comment this? The spew comment was made by Wiml in the first place.
[/quote]Because you're hiding behind his comment instead of providing an original thought. You been doing this all game and it's pinging me like crazy.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:58 pm**

Abigail NK makes sense when I just think on it. It accomplishes alot I think, Abigail has Roxy and I as TR (that you seem more than happy to leap on now). Abigail also knowing you I think could crack the game open by forming a conclusion on you.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:01 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:57 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:49 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:44 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:27 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill
It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?
Manipulate you how?
And clear you how?

No, I want to gather more information from you and for that I need you to keep talking about what I think is relevant.
You can in asking about it immediately, Wiml had commentary on it immediately. All feels very agenda based on the NK that wolves control. You also ???'d Wiml saying I was spewed now. Your guess is as good as mine.
Agenda based how? Literally any kill other than you still keeps your place as the priority in the chopping block. What makes the Abgail kill any different if it's to "manipulate" you?

I ??? him because saying it spewed you is an absurd assumption at this point. And his argument is bad. As soon as I subbed in Abgail would be a lot more likely to trust me over you, she was definitely not going to keep being a "vocal defender" of your slot if it had to come down to a showdown between us.

In any case I shouldn't be making an argument to HIS points when I'm here asking for yours.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:50 pm [quote=_ExLight post_id=<a href="tel:1073267">1073267</a> time=<a href="tel:1691545542">1691545542</a> user_id=1179]
And for the record I could not give two fucks about what Wiml currently fried brain thinks. I'm asking you.
But why do you feel the need to comment this? The spew comment was made by Wiml in the first place.

Because you're hiding behind his comment instead of providing an original thought. You been doing this all game and it's pinging me like crazy.
[/quote]

Abigail dies, the two that I find closest to PoE have opinions about it or are fixated on it. Doesn't seem quite the leap to thinking that there's agenda on it.

Assumptions and fallacy here on your second paragraph. We can ignore this one entirely.

And the third point is also incorrect.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:02 pm**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:53 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:48 pm The one thing I did ask more broadly and that I'd appreciate Wiml's comment would be an answer on my request for non-meta reasons to townread you (Wilgy) or Roxy in the current game.
Read JJJ's ISO if you want that.

My Roxy read is meta and gut. If Roxy bus'd LC there was quite literally 0 posturing around that. I feel that W Roxy would've made a bigger deal of it ESPECIALLY if they went out of their meta so hard to bus.

Again, I'm asking for original thoughts. Why do I have to read JJJ's thoughts if I'm asking for the ones of the current players? You've been pushing his PoE for the past 3 Days and it was a full Town group, I think it's pretty clear at this point his D2 ISOs weren't reliable.

You don't have any non-meta reason to townread her? If she didn't do a single significantly town thing in this game why are you clearing them?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:02 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:57 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:49 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:44 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:27 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill
It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?
Manipulate you how?
And clear you how?

No, I want to gather more information from you and for that I need you to keep talking about what I think is relevant.
You can in asking about it immediately, Wiml had commentary on it immediately. All feels very agenda based on the NK that wolves control. You also ???'d Wiml saying I was spewed now. Your guess is as good as mine.
Agenda based how? Literally any kill other than you still keeps your place as the priority in the chopping block. What makes the Abgail kill any different if it's to "manipulate" you?

I ??? him because saying it spewed you is an absurd assumption at this point. And his argument is bad. As soon as I subbed in Abgail would be a lot more likely to trust me over you, she was definitely not going to keep being a "vocal defender" of your slot if it had to come down to a showdown between us.

In any case I shouldn't be making an argument to HIS points when I'm here asking for yours.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:50 pm [quote=_ExLight post_id=<a href="tel:1073267">1073267</a> time=<a href="tel:1691545542">1691545542</a> user_id=1179]
And for the record I could not give two fucks about what Wiml currently fried brain thinks. I'm asking you.
But why do you feel the need to comment this? The spew comment was made by Wiml in the first place.
Because you're hiding behind his comment instead of providing an original thought. You been doing this all game and it's pinging me like crazy.

Abigail dies, the two that I find closest to PoE have opinions about it or are fixated on it. Doesn't seem quite the leap to thinking that there's agenda on it.

Assumptions and fallacy here on your second paragraph. We can ignore this one entirely.

And the third point is also incorrect.

Fixed the quote break

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:06 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:02 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:53 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:48 pm The one thing I did ask more broadly and that I'd appreciate Wiml's comment would be an answer on my request for non-meta reasons to townread you (Wilgy) or Roxy in the current game.
Read JJJ's ISO if you want that.

My Roxy read is meta and gut. If Roxy bus'd LC there was quite literally 0 posturing around that. I feel that W Roxy would've made a bigger deal of it ESPECIALLY if they went out of their meta so hard to bus.
Again, I'm asking for original thoughts. Why do I have to read JJJ's thoughts if I'm asking for the ones of the current players? You've been pushing his PoE for the past 3 Days and it was a full Town group, I think it's pretty clear at this point his D2 ISOs weren't reliable.

You don't have any non-meta reason to townread her? If she didn't do a single significantly town thing in this game why are you clearing them?

I'm not going to ever be like "wowee I'm so town see here" that shit is just silly. If you wish to find me then do so. Further, a PoE is a PoE because it accounts for being incorrect. The only reason why you came before Epi in the PoE cull is due to you freshly subbing in.

So... "Wowee! We're using a PoE! And there's only 1 wolf left. It's almost as if we're going to go through it, or win. It's like it's designed like that."

Because I don't think they bus'd LC. I just said that.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:10 pm**

@Ex would've Wiml known to kill Abigail to break you two apart?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:11 pm**

I'm still unsure as to what you mean by agenda. I'm not even sure how you're throwing shade at both me and Wiml at the same time when there's only one scum left. It's a vanilla game, the one of the few sources of information is who was chosen to die by scum. We're literally just discussing this to get more information, if anything your resistance to discussing it is way worse than him or me trying to conclude what that flip implies.

I am friends with Abgail and I'm aware that she will often be willing to trust me. Not only that but I'm pretty sure she said loud and clear that she said in-thread that she would defend me this game? We literally just came out of a game where I tried to help her win as arsonist. It's not fallacies, we got each other's back and I'm 100% sure she wouldn't hesitate to trust me when I say I'm Town.

Not even sure what you mean by third point.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:12 pm**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:10 pm @Ex would've Wiml known to kill Abigail to break you two apart?

No, I don't think they ever played together so he wouldn't how she interacts with me.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:12 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:11 pm I'm still unsure as to what you mean by agenda. I'm not even sure how you're throwing shade at both me and Wiml at the same time when there's only one scum left. It's a vanilla game, the one of the few sources of information is who was chosen to die by scum. We're literally just discussing this to get more information, if anything your resistance to discussing it is way worse than him or me trying to conclude what that flip implies.

I am friends with Abgail and I'm aware that she will often be willing to trust me. Not only that but I'm pretty sure she said loud and clear that she said in-thread that she would defend me this game? We literally just came out of a game where I tried to help her win as arsonist. It's not fallacies, we got each other's back and I'm 100% sure she wouldn't hesitate to trust me when I say I'm Town.

Not even sure what you mean by third point.

I'll be at a cpu in a minute and will be able to multi quote in a second.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:13 pm**

*wouldn't know

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:15 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:12 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:10 pm @Ex would've Wiml known to kill Abigail to break you two apart?
No, I don't think they ever played together so he wouldn't how she interacts with me.

Aye, I think the only two to know this would get you and me, unless somehow she just got hit in the crossfire, but I don't know what would cause that.

I think though, if my goal is to really separate you and Abigail, I NK you instead and hope Abigail doesn't waver.

Is that the type of analysis you are looking for?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:26 pm**

It's a bit hard to tell because there aren't enough vote histories, but from I can see Roxy literally voted Lime when he was almost getting hammered, this wouldn't even count bussing, it's just placing beating a dead horse.

If anything her delaying her vote on Lime when asked about it by saying something along the lines of "I'll vote closer to EoD cuz my vote is sacred" or something shows hesitation to me.

Is there anything else?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:27 pm**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:15 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:12 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:10 pm @Ex would've Wiml known to kill Abigail to break you two apart?
No, I don't think they ever played together so he wouldn't how she interacts with me.
Aye, I think the only two to know this would get you and me, unless somehow she just got hit in the crossfire, but I don't know what would cause that.

I think though, if my goal is to really separate you and Abigail, I NK you instead and hope Abigail doesn't waver.

Is that the type of analysis you are looking for?

That's a better one, yea.
Answer without thinking much, what you think my winrate is as Town?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:31 pm**

I need to hear Roxy and Michelle

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:59 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:11 pm I'm still unsure as to what you mean by agenda. I'm not even sure how you're throwing shade at both me and Wiml at the same time when there's only one scum left. It's a vanilla game, the one of the few sources of information is who was chosen to die by scum. We're literally just discussing this to get more information, if anything your resistance to discussing it is way worse than him or me trying to conclude what that flip implies.

Ok, can split quotes now.

My PoE was and is You and Wiml (has been my 'I might be wrong' for a minute now). Wiml goes from having me as the counter to now spewed. I think it's reasonable to see the agenda of 'Wiml killed Abigail and is now raising that as a positive to me to pocket me.' Further, you ask specifically for my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if I've seen your own conclusion for it yet, thus it's also reasonable for me to question 'Ex killed Abigail and is questioning me specifically, what are they hoping to impress upon me?' I have no resistance to discussing it, but both you AND wiml's discussion had me as a subject thus leading to questioning.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:11 pm I am friends with Abgail and I'm aware that she will often be willing to trust me. Not only that but I'm pretty sure she said loud and clear that she said in-thread that she would defend me this game? We literally just came out of a game where I tried to help her win as arsonist. It's not fallacies, we got each other's back and I'm 100% sure she wouldn't hesitate to trust me when I say I'm Town.

Aye, it is fallacious and based on strict assumption. I don't know your meta, but I do know Abigails. If Abigail had doubt about you and expressed that, I would've followed in continuing the PoE. Had Abigail expressed you were in fact 100% T Ex, I would've gone with that and would probably be voting Wiml.

Neither of these worlds exist because Abigail was killed though. If you are T, it makes sense for you to think this based on your own perspective and history with Abigail. If you are W, it makes sense to clip the player who has your meta and then attempt to utilize assumption to make yourself appear as T.

My understanding of the Abigail protection is that it was because you were freshly sub'd in. I'll review though, I don't know if I saw any firm arguments for T vs W from Abigail. I do not think Abigail would purposely defend you had they found reason to doubt their read on you.

Ex wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:02 pm Because you're hiding behind his comment instead of providing an original thought. You been doing this all game and it's pinging me like crazy.

Quoting your 3rd point here. I am not hiding behind his comment. I'm questioning where the comment came from. Original thought came after I expressed that you two seem to be both placing me in a subject matter around a wolf based action (the nk) indicating agenda (also an original thought.) You say I'm doing it all game, but that's somewhat meaningless as it's either an opinion or just kinda shitty shade that has no base? My thoughts have been plenty original.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:01 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:26 pm It's a bit hard to tell because there aren't enough vote histories, but from I can see Roxy literally voted Lime when he was almost getting hammered, this wouldn't even count bussing, it's just placing beating a dead horse.

If anything her delaying her vote on Lime when asked about it by saying something along the lines of "I'll vote closer to EoD cuz my vote is sacred" or something shows hesitation to me.

Is there anything else?

My understanding is Roxy was inquiring about LC prior to even voting though. I think it's believable for Roxy to sheep and sheep correctly.

That I don't think is hesitation. That's pretty par for the course for Roxy I think. We've had arguments about early game vote placement during RVS.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:01 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:27 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:15 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:12 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:10 pm @Ex would've Wiml known to kill Abigail to break you two apart?
No, I don't think they ever played together so he wouldn't how she interacts with me.
Aye, I think the only two to know this would get you and me, unless somehow she just got hit in the crossfire, but I don't know what would cause that.

I think though, if my goal is to really separate you and Abigail, I NK you instead and hope Abigail doesn't waver.

Is that the type of analysis you are looking for?
That's a better one, yea.
Answer without thinking much, what you think my winrate is as Town?

50%

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:02 pm**

Which is considerably higher than my wr in general, so take that as a compliment.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:07 pm**

hmm

50% is about average, so while the killing me instead of Neon is a decent argument I feel like I could still be seen as a low hanging fruit and chosen over her.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:09 pm**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:07 pm hmm

50% is about average, so while the killing me instead of Neon is a decent argument I feel like I could still be seen as a low hanging fruit and chosen over her.

is it? I just figured that I'm garbo so you gotta have a wr higher than me and threw that number out.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:13 pm**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:09 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:07 pm hmm

50% is about average, so while the killing me instead of Neon is a decent argument I feel like I could still be seen as a low hanging fruit and chosen over her.
is it? I just figured that I'm garbo so you gotta have a wr higher than me and threw that number out.

I'd assume so since I'd expect most setups to have about 50-50 odds, but I guess it would depend on which sites people play
Also winrates don't determine whether or not someone is garbo so don't be harsh on yourself

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:15 pm**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:59 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:11 pm I'm still unsure as to what you mean by agenda. I'm not even sure how you're throwing shade at both me and Wiml at the same time when there's only one scum left. It's a vanilla game, the one of the few sources of information is who was chosen to die by scum. We're literally just discussing this to get more information, if anything your resistance to discussing it is way worse than him or me trying to conclude what that flip implies.
Ok, can split quotes now.

My PoE was and is You and Wiml (has been my 'I might be wrong' for a minute now). Wiml goes from having me as the counter to now spewed. I think it's reasonable to see the agenda of 'Wiml killed Abigail and is now raising that as a positive to me to pocket me.' Further, you ask specifically for my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if I've seen your own conclusion for it yet, thus it's also reasonable for me to question 'Ex killed Abigail and is questioning me specifically, what are they hoping to impress upon me?' I have no resistance to discussing it, but both you AND wiml's discussion had me as a subject thus leading to questioning.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:11 pm I am friends with Abgail and I'm aware that she will often be willing to trust me. Not only that but I'm pretty sure she said loud and clear that she said in-thread that she would defend me this game? We literally just came out of a game where I tried to help her win as arsonist. It's not fallacies, we got each other's back and I'm 100% sure she wouldn't hesitate to trust me when I say I'm Town.
Aye, it is fallacious and based on strict assumption. I don't know your meta, but I do know Abigails. If Abigail had doubt about you and expressed that, I would've followed in continuing the PoE. Had Abigail expressed you were in fact 100% T Ex, I would've gone with that and would probably be voting Wiml.

Neither of these worlds exist because Abigail was killed though. If you are T, it makes sense for you to think this based on your own perspective and history with Abigail. If you are W, it makes sense to clip the player who has your meta and then attempt to utilize assumption to make yourself appear as T.

My understanding of the Abigail protection is that it was because you were freshly sub'd in. I'll review though, I don't know if I saw any firm arguments for T vs W from Abigail. I do not think Abigail would purposely defend you had they found reason to doubt their read on you.

Ex wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:02 pm Because you're hiding behind his comment instead of providing an original thought. You been doing this all game and it's pinging me like crazy.
Quoting your 3rd point here. I am not hiding behind his comment. I'm questioning where the comment came from. Original thought came after I expressed that you two seem to be both placing me in a subject matter around a wolf based action (the nk) indicating agenda (also an original thought.) You say I'm doing it all game, but that's somewhat meaningless as it's either an opinion or just kinda shitty shade that has no base? My thoughts have been plenty original.

This post is neat, I think I like it.
I'll head to bed and ponder about it while I sleep.

[VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:13 am**

Good morning!

Waking up when everyone goes to bed...

Where is @Roxy ?

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:54 am**

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 6:20 pm In addition to the above, I was expecting others to find Epi's lack of self pres towny and potentially move onto a counterwagon.

I wanted that counterwagon to be Wilgy, not Abigail (or me).

It's hard to see the poll on phone and when I noticed you go on the cw and tied the wagons aftwer all day you had so many arguments against Epi I went with my last suspicion on him and I am sorry I didn't keep my idea about Epi not w/w with Brad who was correct.

I could not vote but ties are horrible.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:24 pm also
making an avatar for this forum
hype

Michelle did you play any games hosted by osie last year?

I don't remember. I would certainly remember if he would play, and I remember games from 2 and 3 years ago, but after the war nearby started life became harder here and I play less and less and my focus on games dropped a lot.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:55 am**

I don't know if I can trust Wiml clearing Wilgy because of the NK. I would like to hear it again why explained for 5 yo @Wiml

Also going to work, coming back here asap

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:04 am**

The kill was mildly a good look for Wilgy and nothing more.

I very rarely clear based on NKA. I can say that somebody is spewed town by something without having them as a clear.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:05 am**

The real answer is that I think the wolf could be anybody besides Michelle and I plan to work through everyone in detail later.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:05 am**

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:04 am The kill was mildly a good look for Wilgy and nothing more.

I very rarely clear based on NKA. I can say that somebody is spewed town by something without having them as a clear.

With additional context, I no longer believe that Wilgy doesn't make that kill anyway.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:16 am**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:27 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill
It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?

Given that from your perspective my path to victory as a wolf should be to get you and Ex miselimned, how would I be benefitting my wincon by clearing you?

Not that I did clear you but that's how you seemed to have perceived it.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:17 am**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:48 pm The one thing I did ask more broadly and that I'd appreciate Wiml's comment would be an answer on my request for non-meta reasons to townread you (Wilgy) or Roxy in the current game.

Will get round to this within the next 24 hours when I re-ISO both.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:23 am**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:49 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:44 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:27 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill
It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?
Manipulate you how?
And clear you how?

No, I want to gather more information from you and for that I need you to keep talking about what I think is relevant.
You can in asking about it immediately, Wiml had commentary on it immediately. All feels very agenda based on the NK that wolves control. You also ???'d Wiml saying I was spewed now. Your guess is as good as mine.

Given the above, I'm struggling to see this as real paranoia and not an attempt to throw shade at me.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:32 am**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:01 pmAbigail dies, the two that I find closest to PoE have opinions about it or are fixated on it. Doesn't seem quite the leap to thinking that there's agenda on it.

Yes but you don't seem to have put any thought into what that agenda would be.

I'm the one who brought up and you thought I was doing something that would be extremely -ev as a wolf who basically always would need to miselim you this game.

Meanwhile Ex's commentary was mostly in response to me and wasn't really pushing a whole lot that I've seen.

What sort of agenda is actually being pushed here? The only one seeming to be pushing one here is you.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:37 am**

@Roxy this is the day that I really need you here and involved as much as possible please. Things are getting very tight and determining your alignment to the highest confidence level possible is very important here.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:42 am**

If Roxy has more wolf games in the last few years or really just whenever then I'd really like to see them.

The more games backing up the "Roxy doesn't bus" trend, the better. Two games isn't really a big enough same size to be certain.

Additionally, by the time Roxy voted Lime Coke had already gone into antispew and dipped from the thread. At that point, I think he would have encouraged any potential wolf mate to bus him.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:45 am**

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:11 pmI am friends with Abgail and I'm aware that she will often be willing to trust me. Not only that but I'm pretty sure she said loud and clear that she said in-thread that she would defend me this game? We literally just came out of a game where I tried to help her win as arsonist. It's not fallacies, we got each other's back and I'm 100% sure she wouldn't hesitate to trust me when I say I'm Town.

I'll admit that with this context I think Ex killing Abigail is a lot less likely.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:57 am**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:15 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:12 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:10 pm @Ex would've Wiml known to kill Abigail to break you two apart?
No, I don't think they ever played together so he wouldn't how she interacts with me.
Aye, I think the only two to know this would get you and me, unless somehow she just got hit in the crossfire, but I don't know what would cause that.

I think though, if my goal is to really separate you and Abigail, I NK you instead and hope Abigail doesn't waver.

Is that the type of analysis you are looking for?

I think there's all of 0 chance you NK Ex there tbh.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:01 am**

Taking a break, I'll be back later.

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:06 am**

@_ExLight Please link the last two games you played with Abigail for me.

The Syndicate

[TOWN WIN] Cool Bug Mafia

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