The Syndicate

For me I was sold by FZ's post volume. I find it challenging to align the thread count and sheer effort of posting woth what would have had to have been a seriously busy btsc with sehat has happened. Also TH looks like he tried to discredit her badly on the way out.

Effectively her vote evidence is very poor but aside from that she has been a bigger contributer than most. If we went through Floyd and Luke she would become top priority once again though.

MacDougall wrote:For me I was sold by FZ's post volume. I find it challenging to align the thread count and sheer effort of posting woth what would have had to have been a seriously busy btsc with sehat has happened. Also TH looks like he tried to discredit her badly on the way out.

Effectively her vote evidence is very poor but aside from that she has been a bigger contributer than most. If we went through Floyd and Luke she would become top priority once again though.

Her thread volume is major. It's hard work to iso!

@Sorsha, it isn't one particular post to point to, per se.

MacDougall wrote:For me I was sold by FZ's post volume. I find it challenging to align the thread count and sheer effort of posting woth what would have had to have been a seriously busy btsc with sehat has happened. Also TH looks like he tried to discredit her badly on the way out.

Effectively her vote evidence is very poor but aside from that she has been a bigger contributer than most. If we went through Floyd and Luke she would become top priority once again though.

I agree that she has been working hard to find lynch candidates but all her work has lead away from three baddie lynches so far...

Sorsha wrote:

MacDougall wrote:For me I was sold by FZ's post volume. I find it challenging to align the thread count and sheer effort of posting woth what would have had to have been a seriously busy btsc with sehat has happened. Also TH looks like he tried to discredit her badly on the way out.

Effectively her vote evidence is very poor but aside from that she has been a bigger contributer than most. If we went through Floyd and Luke she would become top priority once again though.

I agree that she has been working hard to find lynch candidates but all her work has lead away from three baddie lynches so far...

Or, has it actually been correctly leading us towards one...

Golden wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Golden, I don't know how we can play in the same thread when you say things like you would rather lynch a million civs than someone you personally don;t suspect.

that does not even make any sense. And this is coming from me, a person who has a high tolerance for lack of sense making.

How many civs would you lynch before bea?

None. Bea has not voted in favor of the baddies in every lynch, and argued extensively to save sig and try to imply guilt on people who chose not to participate in saving the baddie sig.

Bea did not do any of that shit. FZ did.

The point of that question was how many civs would you have to see dead before you would suspect FZ.

S~V~S wrote:

Golden wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Golden, I don't know how we can play in the same thread when you say things like you would rather lynch a million civs than someone you personally don;t suspect.

that does not even make any sense. And this is coming from me, a person who has a high tolerance for lack of sense making.

How many civs would you lynch before bea?

None. Bea has not voted in favor of the baddies in every lynch, and argued extensively to save sig and try to imply guilt on people who chose not to participate in saving the baddie sig.

Bea did not do any of that shit. FZ did.

The point of that question was how many civs would you have to see dead before you would suspect FZ.

Thats the point of my question, too. How many civilians would you have to see dead before you would suspect bea? My answer in respect of FZ is the same as yours in respect of bea.

I don't see what bea or FZs conduct in lynches has got to do with it. Bea is not good because she has an exemplary vote record. Her self vote on day one was suspicious, as you know all too well.

Sorry no comparison. FZ was ready to lynch me for not helping her save sig.

Pretty much all you have done is convince me to vote for FZ.

You can't compare one self vote with an entire game of voting for civs and pushing suspicion at people who disagreed with her.

Walking away

What sense does that make?

You asked me if I had bea levels of certainty, honestly. My honest answer is yes. I have bea levels of certainty. That you choose not to respect that, makes me think something more is going on.

If you can't take that for what you and I know it is, then I have to ask you - why have I made you vote FZ? Are we on team Harkonnen together? If I'm covering for her, why not vote me? I'm not sure what you are getting at, or why you feel the need to 'walk away'.

The most clear answer to me is that - perhaps some people won't have their win conditions satisfied if the harkonnens die today and the game ends, and maybe you are one of them. That's all I can think of.

Because I can't see any legitimate reason why you would ask us to 'trust how well you know bea and how certain you are' but ignore the same back from me... when neither bea nor FZ have done anything game-wise to fully clear themselves.

I've done as much as I can to explain why I think FZ looks bad, and why I don't think it is as bad as it looks. In fact, why I feel confident it can't be.

Matt F wrote:

Elohcin - If you had to pick one player still in the game who you think would try to kill you, who would that player be?

I'm not sure it's smart on my part to answer this question.

Matt F wrote:

Golden wrote:Well, Matt. Put aside FZ. Who would you vote for, Floyd or Luke?

Floyd, I guess. But I don't really like either. I do think your case is well thought out, though.

Who DO you want to vote for?

Golden wrote:Oh, thank god, breakthrough.

I now do have bea levels of certainty on FZ.

Voting floyd.

Please share. As I have said before, I trust you Golden and I think Floyd is the best candidate for the last Hark. He has my vote as well.

As for the SVS/Golden encounters...I am not understanding SVS's reactions either. I am unsure why she would want to vote FZ b/c you don't suspect her. That doesn't make sense. That sounds like anger and not baddie hunting.

Elohcin, if I were to vote right now, it would be for FZ. However, Golden is giving me pause on that front.

Reading SVS' posts makes me really annoyed. This is not personal SVS, it's a game, and you're acting like I've done something to you.

I don't know if this is you tunnelling, if you have issues and taking out your aggressions here, or if you're just a baddie.
The only thing you have going for you is that you voted for MM second. But that's exactly what I would have done as a baddie (voting second because you know Sorsha voted for a really good reason and you want to look really good in the aftermath). You didn't vote for Sig either when you weren't forced and after you were, at no point did you try to convince anyone to vote Sig, so get off your high horse.

You didn't vote for TH because you "missed" the vote. And you're defending Bea very strongly. Could it be that you're a baddie that just knows that Bea is good because she's not on your team?

I am seriously trying to get to the bottom of things. I appreciate those defending me, especially Golden. I don't know who is the other Harkonen, but it's not me. If it's not Floyd or Luke, my money would be on SVS.

Golden wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I think FZ could be bad.

I think Floyd & Luke are nubs and hard to judge by the standards with which we judge each other. And you know me, I pay attention to those i suspect, and not as much to everyone else.

Let me ask you a question. Do you hold the same degree of certainly about FZ that i hold about Bea? Be honest with me here.

Linki, What "tude"? Matt asked you a question you seem unwilling to answer it.

No, I definitely don't hold the same degree of certainty you hold about bea. This is why I'm trying to make clear that I don't have a 'number of days' thing.

Who would answer Matt's question? I disagree with you that it was a 'good' question. It's a question that, in fact, has no good answer, other than for me to claim info. It also starts by presuming that outcomes that are not FZ won't end the game.

My truest answer is 'if we don't lynch FZ today, NO civilians have to die, because we could lynch the last harkonnen and win. On the other hand, if we lynch FZ today, I think at least one civilian has to die, before we win." That would be the truest answer I could give.

But, as I say, this is not me having a bea level of certainty. It's just what I think is going on.

@Matt - well, that certainly makes life easier. My vote today will only be for either floyd or FZ. Lets hope luke isn't the baddie.

Lucky I'm not the baddie, I admit that I am a nub, but Floyd definitely isn't, he seems shady, his reasons for voting aren't very good and he hasn't answered any questions, so I'm voting for him.

Luke11646 wrote:

Golden wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I think FZ could be bad.

I think Floyd & Luke are nubs and hard to judge by the standards with which we judge each other. And you know me, I pay attention to those i suspect, and not as much to everyone else.

Let me ask you a question. Do you hold the same degree of certainly about FZ that i hold about Bea? Be honest with me here.

Linki, What "tude"? Matt asked you a question you seem unwilling to answer it.

No, I definitely don't hold the same degree of certainty you hold about bea. This is why I'm trying to make clear that I don't have a 'number of days' thing.

Who would answer Matt's question? I disagree with you that it was a 'good' question. It's a question that, in fact, has no good answer, other than for me to claim info. It also starts by presuming that outcomes that are not FZ won't end the game.

My truest answer is 'if we don't lynch FZ today, NO civilians have to die, because we could lynch the last harkonnen and win. On the other hand, if we lynch FZ today, I think at least one civilian has to die, before we win." That would be the truest answer I could give.

But, as I say, this is not me having a bea level of certainty. It's just what I think is going on.

@Matt - well, that certainly makes life easier. My vote today will only be for either floyd or FZ. Lets hope luke isn't the baddie.

Lucky I'm not the baddie, I admit that I am a nub, but Floyd definitely isn't, he seems shady, his reasons for voting aren't very good and he hasn't answered any questions, so I'm voting for him.

What questions?

Unless Luke still has baddies telling him what to do in his BTSC chat, which I don't think is the case, his last post made me feel much better about him.

He's not an option today and he could easily avoid being on Floyd's lynch train if Floyd is the civ and Luke the baddie. The fact that he's choosing to put himself out there makes me think it's what he really thinks. That, and a sentence I found from him from earlier when he was addressing my suspicion. He said "what did I say that was so wrong" or something like that. That strikes me as genuine newbie civvie question and not one coming from a baddie. In my eyes, a baddie would not make it so straight forward.


For me, it's between Floyd and SVS. Floyd for obvious reasons which I've pointed out all game, and SVS is a relatively new suspicion but one I think we should also consider.

Floyd, funny that you just chose that post from Luke to reply to. Nothing to say about all other accusations?

FZ. wrote:Floyd, funny that you just chose that post from Luke to reply to. Nothing to say about all other accusations?

Most of those accusations are based around my self vote. In case you missed, here's a summary of what I said.

I had one FUCKING minute left.

TheFloyd73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:Floyd, funny that you just chose that post from Luke to reply to. Nothing to say about all other accusations?

Most of those accusations are based around my self vote. In case you missed, here's a summary of what I said.

I had one FUCKING minute left.

Spoiler: show

I apologise for profanities, by the way.

What about your thoughts on all other players? Who do you think is bad?

FZ. wrote:

TheFloyd73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:Floyd, funny that you just chose that post from Luke to reply to. Nothing to say about all other accusations?

Most of those accusations are based around my self vote. In case you missed, here's a summary of what I said.

I had one FUCKING minute left.

Spoiler: show

I apologise for profanities, by the way.

What about your thoughts on all other players? Who do you think is bad?

Well, you for this lackluster comment:

FZ. wrote:I want to say I'm insulted that you all think I could be such a bad and obvious baddie, but if I'm a bad civvie, I guess I can easily be a bad baddie. Only thing is, I'm not bad.

Sounds like Bill Clinton denying having "sexual relations with that woman""

Bea's self vote appears suspicious, but she was basically in the same situation I was in at the time. (When I looked at the voting before I put mine in, Bea's wasn't there, so the story she's brought in is true).

BTW, Matt, do you believe my stating that I was stuck in a "dammit, little time, show do I vote for?" situation.

FZ is my vote

Golden wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

Golden wrote:Oh, thank god, breakthrough.

I now do have bea levels of certainty on FZ.

Voting floyd.

Can you please explain? FZ has pretty much gone against every baddie lynch we have had in this game so far.

OK, but if floyd is bad she has also been ON baddie lynches, right?

Have a look at my case on Floyd, I think its good for explaining how I think those lynches went down and why I don't think FZ would be bad. Honestly, the day 2 lynch happening like it did if FZ is bad? I just don't see that happening in any world. Have you ever seen that happen!?

Otherwise, just remember I trusted you on MM, I trust SVS on bea, I think its time to trust me on FZ. That doesn't necessarily have to mean you vote floyd.

I'll trust you today. I hope you are right.

Voted Floyd

TheFloyd73 wrote:FZ is my vote

I think I missed why - can you explain more?

fwiw - I don't think SVS is bad. I also don't think FZ is bad.

The people I'm *least* sure of are floyd, luke, blooper and nannarnannar.

I'd like to hear a bit more from floyd. I don't suspect him for his day 1 vote, glass houses and all. I can't shake the feeling that he might not be bad, but also I can see how his reluctance to talking about his day 0 till after MM"s lynch makes him look suspicious. It's decent thread evidence and I'd like to hear him talk more about why he was so unwlling to discuss the item initially as well as point me to where I missed his reasoning for voting FZ.

If he doesn't satisfy the itch so to speak with his response, that's likely where my vote is going.

@bea - one harkonnen left, banana doesn't seem to have been here in days. The only reason I'm ruling banana out is... who killed zebra if banana is the last harkonnen?

I guess he could be if there is a recruit, though.

bea wrote:fwiw - I don't think SVS is bad. I also don't think FZ is bad.

The people I'm *least* sure of are floyd, luke, blooper and nannarnannar.

I'd like to hear a bit more from floyd. I don't suspect him for his day 1 vote, glass houses and all. I can't shake the feeling that he might not be bad, but also I can see how his reluctance to talking about his day 0 till after MM"s lynch makes him look suspicious. It's decent thread evidence and I'd like to hear him talk more about why he was so unwlling to discuss the item initially as well as point me to where I missed his reasoning for voting FZ.

If he doesn't satisfy the itch so to speak with his response, that's likely where my vote is going.

Bea, how sure are you on SVS?

fz - without any game info - purely based on her thread actions, it's in the 98+ percent range. I'm usually all over with svs, this is the strongest civ read I've had on her in years. So, yes, she could still be fooling me as much as anyone can be, but I find it very very very very unlikely. Like outside of her admitting to being bad or there's an infodump, I just can't see a vote there.

Golden - I get why you feel the way you do about nanner. For realz. I was just including him on the list because he is unknown to me.

TheFloyd73 wrote:

Luke11646 wrote:

Golden wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I think FZ could be bad.

I think Floyd & Luke are nubs and hard to judge by the standards with which we judge each other. And you know me, I pay attention to those i suspect, and not as much to everyone else.

Let me ask you a question. Do you hold the same degree of certainly about FZ that i hold about Bea? Be honest with me here.

Linki, What "tude"? Matt asked you a question you seem unwilling to answer it.

No, I definitely don't hold the same degree of certainty you hold about bea. This is why I'm trying to make clear that I don't have a 'number of days' thing.

Who would answer Matt's question? I disagree with you that it was a 'good' question. It's a question that, in fact, has no good answer, other than for me to claim info. It also starts by presuming that outcomes that are not FZ won't end the game.

My truest answer is 'if we don't lynch FZ today, NO civilians have to die, because we could lynch the last harkonnen and win. On the other hand, if we lynch FZ today, I think at least one civilian has to die, before we win." That would be the truest answer I could give.

But, as I say, this is not me having a bea level of certainty. It's just what I think is going on.

@Matt - well, that certainly makes life easier. My vote today will only be for either floyd or FZ. Lets hope luke isn't the baddie.

Lucky I'm not the baddie, I admit that I am a nub, but Floyd definitely isn't, he seems shady, his reasons for voting aren't very good and he hasn't answered any questions, so I'm voting for him.

What questions?

The questions about your item

Hey, Luke... you've played pretty well for a newbie. Especially if you are a civ with no teammates to speak to. I hope you stick around

TheFloyd73 wrote:BTW, Matt, do you believe my stating that I was stuck in a "dammit, little time, show do I vote for?" situation.

Considering Mac's bewildering statement about you, I think you're good, or at the very least, not Harkonnen. I won't be voting for you today.

bea wrote:fz - without any game info - purely based on her thread actions, it's in the 98+ percent range. I'm usually all over with svs, this is the strongest civ read I've had on her in years. So, yes, she could still be fooling me as much as anyone can be, but I find it very very very very unlikely. Like outside of her admitting to being bad or there's an infodump, I just can't see a vote there.

Golden - I get why you feel the way you do about nanner. For realz. I was just including him on the list because he is unknown to me.

I understand, but I really don't get how if you two don't know anything about each other, both of you can be sure about the other, unless that's your way of not telling me you have info.

The thing with SVS is, either she's been quite rude and ignored specific questions I asked her, or it's too convenient that she ignored those questions.
Here are the questions she ignored:
1. I asked her after the first lynch (when it was between zebra and Eloh) why she decided yours and Floyd's votes were baddies not wanting to vote for their team mate (Eloh) and not wanting to be associated with the civ lynch (zebra), and why she didn't think that Eloh could be a civ and you two could still not want to take part in either civ's lynch. Never got an answer for that.
2. She said townie FZ tends to do x, while baddie FZ tends to do Y. I asked her when have she ever seen me as a baddie (since I was a baddie only one time here and it lasted a day due to reasons not related to me). She never answered that.

I think these are two important questions and she ignored both. The first one I asked twice, by the way.

So either she has something personal against me, or she's bad who doesn't know what to say.

*When has she" not have she

Can we stop saying SVS is getting personal and angry? That seems anti-fun to me. On that note, if we are to believe Elohcin, then SVS is good in my eyes.

I'm not voting Floyd today. If he's the last Harkonnen and gets lynched as such and I look like a moron, oh well nothing new. I think FZ is the obvious choice and as well she should be.

The only thing giving me pause is how hard Golden is defending her.

Why hasn't Harkonnen killed Sorsha yet? That's weird. :/

I dunno who to vote for.

I voted FZ. I don't think Floyd is bad and the only way he isn't lynched at this point is if the remaining voters go to FZ.

Matt F wrote:

TheFloyd73 wrote:BTW, Matt, do you believe my stating that I was stuck in a "dammit, little time, show do I vote for?" situation.

Considering Mac's bewildering statement about you, I think you're good, or at the very least, not Harkonnen. I won't be voting for you today.

Sorry what?

Matt F wrote:

TheFloyd73 wrote:BTW, Matt, do you believe my stating that I was stuck in a "dammit, little time, show do I vote for?" situation.

Considering Mac's bewildering statement about you, I think you're good, or at the very least, not Harkonnen. I won't be voting for you today.

Eh?

Matt F wrote:I voted FZ. I don't think Floyd is bad and the only way he isn't lynched at this point is if the remaining voters go to FZ.

I would strongly resist listening to Matt. Don't vote FZ.

Further, if floyd is the last Harkonnen and the game does not end, I suggest lynching Matt tomorrow.

Golden wrote:

Matt F wrote:I voted FZ. I don't think Floyd is bad and the only way he isn't lynched at this point is if the remaining voters go to FZ.

I would strongly resist listening to Matt. Don't vote FZ.

Further, if floyd is the last Harkonnen and the game does not end, I suggest lynching Matt tomorrow.

I would not suggest what Golden is suggesting.

*obligatory apology for not being here...again* (but if that appears sarcastic, I really am apologizing for my lack of participation)

So I've read the posts since I last posted, to give a background of what I've caught up with. Despite FZ's voting record/posting against voting baddies, I agree that doing this three times so blatantly is an unlikely baddie move, so I won't be voting FZ today.

Golden wrote:Oh, thank god, breakthrough.

I now do have bea levels of certainty on FZ.

Voting floyd.

Like others, I wanted to know more about what this was about - what breakthrough? But I do like your case on Floyd. It would be odd for all of the baddies to vote away from MM in a row (I'm surprised so many did! Alas for my not paying attention this game), and his leaving himself open during votes just in case they turn out badly (in the cases you point out with sig and TH) doesn't make him look any better. I also like your comment on his avoiding questioning about the poison snooper until MM went down - curious, indeed. I'll go ahead and put my vote there.

@Matt - your behaviour today has been... shall we say, I can only term it as VERY defensive of floyd.

But you haven't provided any context as to why I should trust this read. And you have ignored my points on FZ entirely.

Golden wrote:@Matt - your behaviour today has been... shall we say, I can only term it as VERY defensive of floyd.

But you haven't provided any context as to why I should trust this read. And you have ignored my points on FZ entirely.

What points? "Oh breakthrough, definitely not bad". M'kay.

As for defending Floyd, yeah I guess I am. I don't think he's bad.

Also, I don't read SVS as angry or anything. I just suspect that maybe it isn't in her interests for the game to end now (even if she is otherwise civ) and she was trying to persuasively change the course of today's outcome. When I talked about her having a 'tude', my point was that she was pushing me to answer things without any time for me to analyse or breathe, when it felt to me like having the space to work through things was the better way to get the right outcome.

It also felt like she was pushing me into answering Matt's question, when I did not trust Matt's question.

Or, she really believes FZ is bad so much that she is tunneling a bit.

If Floyd isn't the last harkonnen, I am absolutely confident it is luke. I'm not sure what Matt's game is, but it could well be setting up a civilian FZ lynch tomorrow. And yes, it will be a civilian lynch.

Matt F wrote:

Golden wrote:@Matt - your behaviour today has been... shall we say, I can only term it as VERY defensive of floyd.

But you haven't provided any context as to why I should trust this read. And you have ignored my points on FZ entirely.

What points? "Oh breakthrough, definitely not bad". M'kay.

As for defending Floyd, yeah I guess I am. I don't think he's bad.

Wow, boy, have you avoided all the actual points I made and boiled a days work down to a single post.

Matt, I'll ask again... when have you ever seen an entire baddie team... all four of them... all join on a lynch train one after the other to save a teammate, when all they would get in return if they succeeded was a civilian dead and no cred at all (especially if MM was just lynched again the next day).

Golden - I am not trying to "set up" an FZ lynch. I've been quite vocal on her for days now. Don't twist it.

Answer me here and now, do you trust Elohcin when she says all the forced voters are civvie? Since I'm civvie, and because of your and Mac's alignment claims earlier in the game, I'm inclined to believe her.

I am certain Eloh is truthful. I do, however, think it is possible you are Wellington Yueh. Your conduct today has begun to make me think you must be, because you seem to otherwise be ignoring things I wouldn't expect you to ignore.

I'm not 'twisting anything', but on the other hand I suppose there is a certain extent to which I should allow for perfectly normal civ Matt to be tunnelling right now, so it could well be that I'm just paranoid. But it does look to me like today, you've been less trying to solve it and more determined to make sure Floyd isn't lynched.

And that is the honest truth of how I've been reading your posts today - defensive of Floyd and trying to avoid his lynch... not specifically pursuing FZ's lynch.

Sorry, got caught up in TH thread for a sec

Golden - I really don't want to see Floyd lynched. But at this point, it looks like he will so we'll see what happens.

And yes, you should always consider civ tunnely Matt F

Matt F wrote:Sorry, got caught up in TH thread for a sec

Golden - I really don't want to see Floyd lynched. But at this point, it looks like he will so we'll see what happens.

And yes, you should always consider civ tunnely Matt F

What odds would you put on Floyd coming back civ?

Golden wrote:

Matt F wrote:Sorry, got caught up in TH thread for a sec

Golden - I really don't want to see Floyd lynched. But at this point, it looks like he will so we'll see what happens.

And yes, you should always consider civ tunnely Matt F

What odds would you put on Floyd coming back civ?

I don't know about "civvie", but I think it's unlikely he is Harkonnen. We shall see, though, it looks like he's gettin' lynched today.

For me, it's the same. Is it just because of how the lynches go down, or do you disagree with the stuff I've said about thread content? Do you want to contribute more to it?

Golden wrote:For me, it's the same. Is it just because of how the lynches go down, or do you disagree with the stuff I've said about thread content? Do you want to contribute more to it?

As I said before, I think you laid out a good case on Floyd. But again, considering Mac's weird statement (and no I will not elaborate, it has to do with interlinking game shit, but feel free to ISO Mac), I just don't think Floyd is bad.

Again, though, we shall see.