Grasslands [Game Thread]

[Hally]

jay’s only orange box in his interaction analysis was lc/martin

lc is now flipped scum and jay is dead

lettuce kill martin perhaps?

Does Alison's argument/case of me being town mean that little to you?

If I flip town you BETTER trust alison, because there is 200% not an LC - Martin - Alison scum team.

what do you mean IF you flip town?

and why are you appealing to me using alison’s case instead of your own play? and why should i trust alison when i don’t know she’s town?

wolfy post

[MartinGG99]

jay’s only orange box in his interaction analysis was lc/martin

lc is now flipped scum and jay is dead

lettuce kill martin perhaps?

Does Alison's argument/case of me being town mean that little to you?

If I flip town you BETTER trust alison, because there is 200% not an LC - Martin - Alison scum team.

what do you mean IF you flip town?

and why are you appealing to me using alison’s case instead of your own play? and why should i trust alison when i don’t know she’s town?

wolfy post

People don't flip if they're alive Hally.....

I can't flip green if I'm town and alive.

[Hally]

that was a wolfy post. martin’s appeal is wolfy. he’s leaning on alison in a wolfy way. martin is a wolf. wolfy wolfy wolfy

[MartinGG99]

and why are you appealing to me using alison’s case instead of your own play? and why should i trust alison when i don’t know she’s town?

Also if you don't trust me and alison then that by intuition means you believe in a Martin + Alison scum team.

Problem is, LC already died.

So that means the scum team you find most likely right now is Martin + LC + Alison

But as soon as I die that theory of yours will be blown to smithereens

[Hally]

he’s probably appealing to me that way because he knows alison’s case comes from a villager

ergo alison town

ergo lc/martin/sloonei wolves

[MartinGG99]

that was a wolfy post. martin’s appeal is wolfy. he’s leaning on alison in a wolfy way. martin is a wolf. wolfy wolfy wolfy

Oh shush.

I'm saying my thoughts right here and right now. I'm done with my playstyle from D1 and D2.

You can cry wolf all you want

but if you're wrong on me then that'll diminish the value the next time you cry wolf

[Hally]

someone slap some sense into me

is what im saying ridiculous y/n/try back later?

[staypositivefriend]

@martin -

can you walk me through how alison's read on you on d2 played absolutely zero role into your overall read on alison, and how that shifted today? it's interesting to me that you're basically relying on alison's read on you today to save you after you spent all of d2 ignoring/not acknowledging it

[nutella]

the post didn't even make sense, he's saying to trust alison if he flips town because they can't be wolf partners? doesn't that mean we should trust alison more if he flips wolf? like idgi it feels almost like a slip it's so wolfy hahahaha

[nutella]

and why are you appealing to me using alison’s case instead of your own play? and why should i trust alison when i don’t know she’s town?

Also if you don't trust me and alison then that by intuition means you believe in a Martin + Alison scum team.

Problem is, LC already died.

So that means the scum team you find most likely right now is Martin + LC + Alison

But as soon as I die that theory of yours will be blown to smithereens

.......yeah im still confused

[MartinGG99]

he’s probably appealing to me that way because he knows alison’s case comes from a villager

Oh, so she's villager but not trustworthy enough for you?

[MartinGG99]

he’s probably appealing to me that way because he knows alison’s case comes from a villager

Oh, so she's villager but not trustworthy enough for you?

[staypositivefriend]

someone slap some sense into me

is what im saying ridiculous y/n/try back later?

no, it's not ridiculous - i think martin's posts today are really bizarre. but i'm not ready to commit to the read with the same level of confidence that you have, it feels premature for me to definitively say someone is a wolf before ive had the time to delve into everyones interactions

[Hally]

that was a wolfy post. martin’s appeal is wolfy. he’s leaning on alison in a wolfy way. martin is a wolf. wolfy wolfy wolfy

Oh shush.

I'm saying my thoughts right here and right now. I'm done with my playstyle from D1 and D2.

You can cry wolf all you want

but if you're wrong on me then that'll diminish the value the next time you cry wolf

why do you keep saying IF you’re town, IF i’m wrong, etc? what does IF mean? am i wrong or not?

[MartinGG99]

the post didn't even make sense, he's saying to trust alison if he flips town because they can't be wolf partners? doesn't that mean we should trust alison more if he flips wolf? like idgi it feels almost like a slip it's so wolfy hahahaha

Alison has argued that I'm town.

If shes wrong on that read of me being villager yet she's town

Then that by extension makes all of their future arguments less trust-worthy.

[Hally]

someone slap some sense into me

is what im saying ridiculous y/n/try back later?

no, it's not ridiculous - i think martin's posts today are really bizarre. but i'm not ready to commit to the read with the same level of confidence that you have, it feels premature for me to definitively say someone is a wolf before ive had the time to delve into everyones interactions

Spoiler: show

idk if i’m actually that confident. i just wanted to pres martin and see what comes out

[staypositivefriend]

fwiw the biggest issue im taking with martin's appeal right now is that he's appealing to hally like he knows that hally is town. scum sometimes have light perspective slips like that when theyre trying to appeal

i also really do not like his shift in attitude toward alison from d2 to today, it doesn't feel realistic & i dont see a clear thought process/progression in his ISO

[tutuu]

i bow down to queen nutella, queen hally and queen spf

i am thy royal simp my queens

my vote is thy vote

my wallet is thy wallet

[MartinGG99]

why do you keep saying IF you’re town, IF i’m wrong, etc? what does IF mean? am i wrong or not?

Because its obvious I have to convince people who haven't gotten a "Martin is town" PM from dyslexicon.

Hence the "IF" is mandatory.

Why the hell would it be otherwise?

[Hally]

the post didn't even make sense, he's saying to trust alison if he flips town because they can't be wolf partners? doesn't that mean we should trust alison more if he flips wolf? like idgi it feels almost like a slip it's so wolfy hahahaha

Alison has argued that I'm town.

If shes wrong on that read of me being villager yet she's town

Then that by extension makes all of their future arguments less trust-worthy.

how can she be wrong if you know you’re town? what are you saying? like, this is just getting less clear

[nutella]

i bow down to queen nutella, queen hally and queen spf

i am thy royal simp my queens

my vote is thy vote

my wallet is thy wallet

Cash money baby I'm gonna buy us a big treehouse mansion with several hot tubs full of capybaras monching fruits and veggies

[Hally]

fwiw the biggest issue im taking with martin's appeal right now is that he's appealing to hally like he knows that hally is town. scum sometimes have light perspective slips like that when theyre trying to appeal

i also really do not like his shift in attitude toward alison from d2 to today, it doesn't feel realistic & i dont see a clear thought process/progression in his ISO

he actually had some progression on alison in the treehouse ftr

[MartinGG99]

fwiw the biggest issue im taking with martin's appeal right now is that he's appealing to hally like he knows that hally is town. scum sometimes have light perspective slips like that when theyre trying to appeal

I'm appealing regardless if she's town or mafia.

If she's mafia then how she reacts to me may be different if I treat her if she's town.

It might make sense in the future or I am rambling non-sensically right now.

[MartinGG99]

If she's mafia then how she reacts to me may be different if I treat her if she's town.

I mean if she's town, she may react X way to me appealing to her as if she's town.

If she's Mafia, she may react Y way to me appealing to her as if she's town.

I don't know what to look for but it might be something.

Or lack of something because I just mentioned it.

[Hally]

If she's mafia then how she reacts to me may be different if I treat her if she's town.

I mean if she's town, she may react X way to me appealing to her as if she's town.

If she's Mafia, she may react Y way to me appealing to her as if she's town.

I don't know what to look for but it might be something.

Or lack of something because I just mentioned it.

what does my reaction tell you?

[MartinGG99]

If she's mafia then how she reacts to me may be different if I treat her if she's town.

I mean if she's town, she may react X way to me appealing to her as if she's town.

If she's Mafia, she may react Y way to me appealing to her as if she's town.

I don't know what to look for but it might be something.

Or lack of something because I just mentioned it.

Right now I'm not too happy with Hally just fence-sitting me a few times only to come up with:

"Hey you remember that one orange box that JJJ had? Maybe its true because obviously having ONLY 1 ORANGE BOX TOTALLY DOESN'T DOUBT THE ACCURACY OF SAID BLIND INTERACTIONS SHEET"

[MartinGG99]

"Hey you remember that one orange box that JJJ had? Maybe its true because obviously having ONLY 1 ORANGE BOX TOTALLY DOESN'T DOUBT THE ACCURACY OF SAID BLIND INTERACTIONS SHEET"

*that and LC flipped mafia

[staypositivefriend]

If she's mafia then how she reacts to me may be different if I treat her if she's town.

I mean if she's town, she may react X way to me appealing to her as if she's town.

If she's Mafia, she may react Y way to me appealing to her as if she's town.

I don't know what to look for but it might be something.

Or lack of something because I just mentioned it.

Right now I'm not too happy with Hally just fence-sitting me a few times only to come up with:

"Hey you remember that one orange box that JJJ had? Maybe its true because obviously having ONLY 1 ORANGE BOX TOTALLY DOESN'T DOUBT THE ACCURACY OF SAID BLIND INTERACTIONS SHEET"

so do u think that points to hally being mafia? do u think their read on you is indicative of their alignment, or are you just frustrated by their push?

[MartinGG99]

If she's mafia then how she reacts to me may be different if I treat her if she's town.

I mean if she's town, she may react X way to me appealing to her as if she's town.

If she's Mafia, she may react Y way to me appealing to her as if she's town.

I don't know what to look for but it might be something.

Or lack of something because I just mentioned it.

Right now I'm not too happy with Hally just fence-sitting me a few times only to come up with:

"Hey you remember that one orange box that JJJ had? Maybe its true because obviously having ONLY 1 ORANGE BOX TOTALLY DOESN'T DOUBT THE ACCURACY OF SAID BLIND INTERACTIONS SHEET"

so do u think that points to hally being mafia? do u think their read on you is indicative of their alignment, or are you just frustrated by their push?

Quite frankly I'm tempted to just push them rn, though I am frustrated by the reasoning of the push that refers to the orange block.

I mean, they did have that mindmeld with you on D2.

I wouldn't doubt it unless I imagined a Spf + Hally team.

[MartinGG99]

I wouldn't doubt it unless I imagined a Spf + Hally team.

Which I'm not interested in looking into right now, or at least I don't think there's much reason to.

Maybe someone else will do that for me. I don't have all the time in the world.

[Hally]

LC ISO takeaways: It feels like there's nothing there. If LC got caught as scum for trying too hard recently it would make sense that he would be inclined to go too far in the opposite direction if he randed scum this game. I find it suspicious that he never reacted to any suspicion on him at all. It reminds me of my scum game in Bastard Fiesta when Insomnia suspected me but I ignored it until he called it out since I thought it would fizzle out. I also found this post suspicious:

And we will take out Sloonei and Martin.

If Sloonei and Martin are both town this indirect suspicion for unstated reasons looks pretty bad. At that time they were probably the most LHF targets (Martin less so but since he has the least FM experience out of anyone here scum probably thought he was an easy mischop to start with).

Phantom vote town: JJJ
Phantom vote scum: LC

I dislike the general thread consensus that LC is suspicious but not actually pushing him or wanting to vote him. It feels like my experience a couple games ago on PerC in a cult game where the cult leader was LHF that was in the PoE the entire game, yet there was a resistance coming from cult that made them imchoppable (their wagons kept disappearing and people often had them as their second or third suspect rather than first) and cult won. It also reminds me of a scum game of mine back in March on MU where I was similarly in the PoE the entire game and got wagoned 3 days in a row yet still survived and won.

There’s nothing stopping Long Con from being mafia. He has just made a tradition of playing himself into POE pools so it is hard to draw any confidence from it.

What makes me suspicious of LC is the interaction around him. Nobody ever had the mindset of "Hey, let's jump on LC!" but generally with PoE town that hasn't done much to clear themselves there's a push to get them mislimed early (that generally is at least partially driven by scum).

long con: long con feels like they are barely part of this game, and they seem genuinely unconcerned w/the pressure being put on them.

Someone else (Martin) brought up my lack of concern for pressure/suspicion/votes. I'm just really used to it by now, with how games are played these days with strong early PoE and towncore always forming, I find it better to just plow ahead than worry about the usual suspicion.

I actually brought it up as well. Even if you're not concerned you'll get elimed based on said suspicion, shouldn't you be concerned about where that suspicion is coming from? If you're town, then from the PoV of a PoE town there should be a wealth of information from how people interact with you and how they push you and you haven't tried to make sense of it at all. I know personally I ignore suspicion on me as scum but try to figure out where that suspicion is coming from as town.

i don’t think these posts look w/w. they come before lc was really getting any suspicion and the way thun talks about and to lc doesn’t feel like how she’d bus lc if she went that route. if thunal wants to distance from lc she can do it with level 1 stuff like “oh, he’s not giving much content.” but she takes it up a few levels higher and calls out the gamestate surrounding lc + his response to it as being wolf indicative for him. she even recalls her recent scum game to bolster her argument, which is a connection she doesn’t have to draw as lc’s teammate. the level of thought goes beyond where i think a teammate needs to go

i think this is a genuine push and thun is a villager

[Hally]

martin, you have avoided giving a read on me the entire game. you keep pushing it off and saying you still need to iso me and look into it

it’s D3 now. i just helped eliminate mafia. when can i expect you to have a read on my alignment?

[Thunal33]

that was a wolfy post. martin’s appeal is wolfy. he’s leaning on alison in a wolfy way. martin is a wolf. wolfy wolfy wolfy

Can you elaborate on why you find Martin and specifically that post wolfy? I didn't see it as wolfy for Martin to say "if I flip town" instead of "when I flip town." It's more of a style choice than anything. I'm not really ready to give my opinions since I feel like I need to do some more interaction analysis first.

[Hally]

that was a wolfy post. martin’s appeal is wolfy. he’s leaning on alison in a wolfy way. martin is a wolf. wolfy wolfy wolfy

Can you elaborate on why you find Martin and specifically that post wolfy? I didn't see it as wolfy for Martin to say "if I flip town" instead of "when I flip town." It's more of a style choice than anything. I'm not really ready to give my opinions since I feel like I need to do some more interaction analysis first.

it was less the “if” thing. i just said that to see what he’d say tbh. but i dislike the “what about alison’s read? sadface” line. i think it’s wolfy for him to appeal to me (someone he shouldn’t know is town) using alison’s read (who he also shouldn’t know is town) instead of defending himself using his own play (since he presumably does know he’s town). why does he need to invoke alison’s read to defend himself? what does that have to do with anything? it feels like using a villager’s incorrect read as a shield. and the sadface is AtE-y, like i’m being guilted into sheeping alison. but idk, maybe i’m reading too much into it

[nutella]

that was a wolfy post. martin’s appeal is wolfy. he’s leaning on alison in a wolfy way. martin is a wolf. wolfy wolfy wolfy

Can you elaborate on why you find Martin and specifically that post wolfy? I didn't see it as wolfy for Martin to say "if I flip town" instead of "when I flip town." It's more of a style choice than anything. I'm not really ready to give my opinions since I feel like I need to do some more interaction analysis first.

it's not just the "if" it's that the whole argument doenst make sense and feels like tmi that he won't flip town and alison is wrong. like he contradicted himself in a weird way

[nutella]

the post didn't even make sense, he's saying to trust alison if he flips town because they can't be wolf partners? doesn't that mean we should trust alison more if he flips wolf? like idgi it feels almost like a slip it's so wolfy hahahaha

Alison has argued that I'm town.

If shes wrong on that read of me being villager yet she's town

Then that by extension makes all of their future arguments less trust-worthy.

how can she be wrong if you know you’re town? what are you saying? like, this is just getting less clear

like......... this lol

[Hally]

yeah, like idk, it really sounds like he knows he won’t flip town and is trying to setup alison to take the fall after he flips scum because he knows she’s wrong

[Hally]

i actually liked martin’s posting in the treehouse though so now i’m torn

[mention]staypositivefriend[/mention] could you look at that and see what you think?

[Thunal33]

the post didn't even make sense, he's saying to trust alison if he flips town because they can't be wolf partners? doesn't that mean we should trust alison more if he flips wolf? like idgi it feels almost like a slip it's so wolfy hahahaha

Alison has argued that I'm town.

If shes wrong on that read of me being villager yet she's town

Then that by extension makes all of their future arguments less trust-worthy.

But Alison already isn't trustworthy from my POV since she's been wrong in suspecting me, and you felt the same way that she was wrong in that suspicion. Do you think only Alison's read on you is trustworthy or do you think her reads in general are trustworthy?

[Thunal33]

I think I'll focus on gathering information with what time I have today since I don't have time to look at how everyone interacted with LC until tomorrow. I don't feel confident giving any solid takes right now.

@nutella Do you think a LC/Martin/Sloonei team is the most likely? What are your biggest reasons for being suspicious of Sloonei?

[Thunal33]

How do you mention people?

[nutella]

How do you mention people?

you have to click on the name as it pops up when you're typing, or you can manually use the bbcode or the button in the post editor


to answer your question, yeah I think that's a pretty likely team though again I wouldn't be too surprised if it's a bit harder than that. I think sloonei has done close to no actual solving and his general lack of motivation to play is potentially augmented by a scum rand, plus I townread everyone else more and think the game just makes most sense with him in a scum slot. and I do think he's compatible with LC and potentially martin as well; probably not with alison or with you

[nutella]

Me too.

Give me something to chew on.

I don't really have anything to say at this point. Gimme a few days maybe.

This is basically the response that I got from LC when I tried to engage him earlier as well. I do not know what to do with a completely disengaged LC. I seldom know what to do with an engaged LC either. Gun to my head, I would expect more from him if he's bad.

i have the game poe’d down to jay/sloonei/lc/carrote. not even kidding. like i tr everyone else. and rn im looking at that and going “this cannot possibly be right” so maybe one of my tr’s is wrong but this is where i’m at

Sounds great.

But then this post is just so blunt and blasé about his name being included in an early POE that I almost feel like it's affected. Meh.

Sloonei was really hedgey about LC on d1 and I remember finding this second post particularly sketchy at the time, and even more so now knowing LC was scum. I think this is careful treatment of a teammate who was in the early POE -- leaving the door open for a bus if it had to happen

[nutella]

@Sloonei what is lc’s alignment?

same question to @Long Con actually - sloonei is [fill in the blank]

Sloonei is mafia. In the early game, as I said, I don't have a strong grasp on why people are Town reading or scum reading others, a lot of the time. As a result, my reads in the early game are often informed by players who excel in the early game. Sloonei is a name I've seen brought up probably more than anyone else as scum, to the point that it was said Carotte being town locks Sloonei as scum.

I would much rather give an answer after I have looked over his posts, which I can do when I'm done with Nutella.

hmmmmm but is this more likely to be written about a teammate or about a townie who is a consensus suspect / potential mischop? especially the part where he leans on it having been "said" that carotte's flip would lock sloonei as scum -- seems like it could be taking advantage of the suspicion on sloonei

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


idk part of me says to stop letting sloonei slip by another day but part of me is paranoid that i'm buying too much into a sloonei scum narrative and starting to lean more toward martin instead

[nutella]

in sloonei's iso he appears to push LC a fair amount d2 but then he does the triple vote thing same as he did on d1, so I'm not sure how much to value his "push" or if it's just distancing

[Hally]

i looked at sloonei’s treatment of lc and noticed the same thing as nut. overall i’m not really inspired by sloonei’s treatment of lc and feel it could easily be w/w on his end. in particular i dislike that sloonei sussed lc early on but there was a lack of real follow up afterwards

where i think it’s maybe less clear is in lc’s treatment of sloonei. specifically, i think calling sloonei town and more or less shrugging at the suspicion on him by saying “i haven’t caught you doing anything bad” is a weird posture to take with a teammate who has come under such heavy fire early on. lc did later take a harsher stance D2 and call sloonei mafia because “everyone else said so,” which can easily be w/w. i just question why that posture wasn’t present from the beginning if they’re teammates

[MartinGG99]

martin, you have avoided giving a read on me the entire game. you keep pushing it off and saying you still need to iso me and look into it

it’s D3 now. i just helped eliminate mafia. when can i expect you to have a read on my alignment?

Never tbh. I haven't really looked into SPF either since post 540-ish....

I just usually don't have the time for this game to read everyone to the same degree that I have with others (Which probably included a bunch of over-analyzing).

I'm just going to say you're town because of the mindmeld earlier, where you had a larger post saying roughly the same idea to push/eliminate me on D2 a minute after SPF (If I recall correctly)

I need to get better at this thing in terms of being efficient with time :/

I've noticed once that it took you like 6 minutes to make all of your responses to a page while it took me around ~20 minutes in the past.

Though I didn't note the specific example.

[MartinGG99]

It won't surprise me if someone scumreads me for my post above -_-

[Thunal33]

How do you mention people?

you have to click on the name as it pops up when you're typing, or you can manually use the bbcode or the button in the post editor


to answer your question, yeah I think that's a pretty likely team though again I wouldn't be too surprised if it's a bit harder than that. I think sloonei has done close to no actual solving and his general lack of motivation to play is potentially augmented by a scum rand, plus I townread everyone else more and think the game just makes most sense with him in a scum slot. and I do think he's compatible with LC and potentially martin as well; probably not with alison or with you

I townleaned Sloonei D2 with the reasoning that he would take more pride in his scum game and push to get townread more than he did, but would he do that? Does Sloonei generally try harder as town or as scum? Which alignment does he enjoy more?

[MartinGG99]

it's not just the "if" it's that the whole argument doenst make sense and feels like tmi that he won't flip town and alison is wrong. like he contradicted himself in a weird way

I have the feeling ("feeling" here not implying fact; I haven't counted) that most people who scum-read me also scum-read Alison. We're both controversial figures in the general consensus. The thing is, I can absolutely guarantee at the very least that its not a LC - Martin - Alison scum team, and I highly believe that Alison isn't a wolf either.

So I feel like I have to somehow verbalize that I think there's something contradictory with the independent (yet simultaneous) scum reads of me and Alison by the general consensus.