The Syndicate

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:05 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:04 am The kill was mildly a good look for Wilgy and nothing more.

I very rarely clear based on NKA. I can say that somebody is spewed town by something without having them as a clear.

With additional context, I no longer believe that Wilgy doesn't make that kill anyway.

Ok, I was really curious about your answer because my take was the opposite.
Wilgy made an almost lock town read for Abigail, so if wolf Wilgy could never chop her/ insert her into the Poe, so I thought that if Wilgy is a wolf killing her makes the most sense.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 6:04 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:05 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:04 am The kill was mildly a good look for Wilgy and nothing more.

I very rarely clear based on NKA. I can say that somebody is spewed town by something without having them as a clear.

With additional context, I no longer believe that Wilgy doesn't make that kill anyway.

Ok, I was really curious about your answer because my take was the opposite.
Wilgy made an almost lock town read for Abigail, so if wolf Wilgy could never chop her/ insert her into the Poe, so I thought that if Wilgy is a wolf killing her makes the most sense.

Yeah, my initial reaction to the flip was mostly based on the thought tha Wilgy wouldn't kill Abigail because Abigail would hard defend Wilgy today and might vote to save him in F3.

But then with the additional context of Wilgy seeming to think that Abigail would come into today defending Ex it seems much more understandable why he might make that kill because wolf-Wilgy never has a shot at winning this game if Ex is towncleared.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:06 am @_ExLight Please link the last two games you played with Abigail for me.

https://forums.bulbagarden.net/index.ph ... ns.297597/

https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/ ... ead.74581/

Honestly not great games because she was scum in both. There were was a game between those but it was a shaky one cuz it was likely my worst performance cuz my mental state went to shit at the time lmfao so I'd rather forget that game.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:13 am Good morning!

Waking up when everyone goes to bed...

Where is @Roxy ?

Hiiii @Michelle
I asked in a post earlier on for non-meta reasons to townread Roxy and Wilgy, could you mention a few?

_ExLight wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 7:22 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:06 am @_ExLight Please link the last two games you played with Abigail for me.

https://forums.bulbagarden.net/index.ph ... ns.297597/

https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/ ... ead.74581/

Honestly not great games because she was scum in both. There were was a game between those but it was a shaky one cuz it was likely my worst performance cuz my mental state went to shit at the time lmfao so I'd rather forget that game.

Rip, no recent town games then? I wanted to see how she approached her read on you mostly.

Skimmed Abi's ISO in the ZD game and not much to say there and the Bulba one I'll have to look at later since I'm not getting the site to load for me. But thanks regardless.

I'll stop procrastinating and do a review of Roxy's ISO.

@Roxy, how come you never voted yesterday?

I'll admit that a large part of why I've been as willing to townread Roxy as I have been has been on the basis of Wilgy's meta clear there that he's been extremely confident on. If Wilgy is town then I believed I could trust his judgement and if Wilgy is a wolf then Roxy obviously to be town.

Just working through the meat of Roxy's ISO now.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:30 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:34 am

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:08 am

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:06 pm Pie is delicious.

So much better than cake.

GTFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kate is wrong.
Kate is always wrong in this scenario.
Kate hates Pie.
Kate is civ.
Yep these posts prove it to me.

Cake ftmfw

Could you explain what about those posts makes you think Kate is town please?

the great cake pie debate is from a decade ago on another mafia site. Idk how to explain it but when pie and cake are discussed by Kate she is usually town I know it seems a weird read but it makes total sense in my vibe style of playing.

I was fine with this explanation at the time but could you please explain this in more detail now?

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:53 pm have had an wild afternoon and need to get Ariya fast. So I have to vote now vote limey
I cannot read him one way or the other except the disappearing act is never a good sign. I'll thank Wiml for this if we get a hit but will not blame them if we don't. I do like their case and felt they have the knowledge of Limey that I just don't.

This vote is well set up prior to this and makes sense from Roxy's perspective as a villager.

The issue is that the vote itself comes *after* Lime Coke's final post with the vote on me. At that point in time, it's clear that Lime Coke thought he was doomed no matter what and I'm sure that if it was brought up in wolf chat he would have encouraged his partner to bus him if they were not bussing him at that point already. The guy had literally given up, after all.

So it's unfortunately way more difficult to clear Roxy on the basis of this vote than it would be to do so for an earlier vote.

I said this previously Ex but I think Roxy attributing the Lime Coke flip to me/Falcon (but not JJJ) and then shading JJJ during D2 (having him 4th in her PoE and then criticising his lack of a hammer) make killing JJJ over me weird.

Wait, Roxy gives new players D1 passes so that means she probably wouldn't have been willing Roxy N1 me, right?

And since she attributed the Lime Coke elim to Falcon but not as much JJJ I guess that the N1K at least makes a lot of sense from her as a wolf since JJJ and I both wouldn't be on her NK radar.

@DrWilgy regardless of whatever conclusion I come to on Roxy once I've finished at stuff I'd definitely appreciate a full towncase on her from you detailing why she's a villager and why I should sheep you.

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:30 pm ewww JJJ did not vote for Quin??

Is this the last post of a player about to NK JJJ?

I got less out of that than I'd hoped tbh.

Taking another break, I'm getting pretty burned out.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:21 am I am terribly sorry but I went through the worst storm of my life, was stuck in my car for hours as live electrical poles and wires sizzled around several cars. WE were then taken to a firehall until the lines could be shut down and poles moved so we could leave in our cars then I went home to no power or internets while I did have internet yesterday while at work I was busy (yes too busy to post)

I am going to do my best today <3

Understandable, I'm glad you're alright!

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:08 pm I reread the game last night so I'm finally caught up.
Wiml is never mafia here. Michelle is very unlikely to be mafia too.

I do not like the Quin Lynch D2, I do not mind the Epi Lynch D3, but he definitely wasn't a priority. I'm sorry for not being able to catch up by the EoD on D3.

Overall I just HATE Wilgy and Roxy's slots and those should've been the priority since D2 imo
Can the remaining players give me reads on those two without using any meta arguments?

For today I think Wilgy is the priority because I've been pinged by way too many red flags outta them. They hopped off the Lime wagon when it started to gain speed, they're among the ones who originally suggested and were vehemently pushing for the Quin/Epi/Kate PoE along JJJ (which by the way fell off BAD after mid-day 1), and their intonation shifted a lot after the D1 - becoming a lot more "serious".

That being said, I really dislike Roxy slot too. I've seen little to no contributing from them - with a noticeable lack of reads and impressions throughout most of the phases, a lot of filler mafia philosophy talk, and arguments that are quite the hypocrisy (being against meta arguments but being one of the first ones to use them in the reads). But I feel like the last mafia is someone who's been more actively influencing the game, which makes me prioritize Wilgy.

I'm 92% sure scum is one of those two slots.

Hi new player.

I like to try my best to show respect to other players while I am not perfect and do make mistakes I really really dislike someone telling me that - the "HATE", they dislike me, I am not contributing, noticeable lack of, filler talk, not influencing the game.

I am so sorry I am not playing your preferred way.

kk this is just in the first few posts of catch up so yeah, your buzz words killed my mafia playing mood .......................

It is bumming me out but I will try to continue.

In general Roxy, I'm very interested in hearing where your head's at and chatting with you when you're around.

Another thing I was meaning to ask: in your opinion, how valid is Wilgy's meta read on you? Is it true that you wouldn't have voted Lime Coke there as mafia?

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:59 pm I randomly had the thought a couple of hours ago that wolf-Ex might kill Abigail because we made out like she was super townread when summarising the game to him.

I don't actually remember to what extent that's true and would have to read things but that's hilarious if that actually happened.

lol I had the same thought. But then I am in full circle mode where I leap person to person in my head thinking they are the final baddie.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:37 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:59 pm I randomly had the thought a couple of hours ago that wolf-Ex might kill Abigail because we made out like she was super townread when summarising the game to him.

I don't actually remember to what extent that's true and would have to read things but that's hilarious if that actually happened.

lol I had the same thought. But then I am in full circle mode where I leap person to person in my head thinking they are the final baddie.

Yeah, I relate to that feeling and it's leaving me a bit burned.

Right now I feel happy that Michelle is a villager but outside of that I'm struggling on finding anybody else's alignment to that level of confidence.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:34 am

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:08 pm I reread the game last night so I'm finally caught up.
Wiml is never mafia here. Michelle is very unlikely to be mafia too.

I do not like the Quin Lynch D2, I do not mind the Epi Lynch D3, but he definitely wasn't a priority. I'm sorry for not being able to catch up by the EoD on D3.

Overall I just HATE Wilgy and Roxy's slots and those should've been the priority since D2 imo
Can the remaining players give me reads on those two without using any meta arguments?

For today I think Wilgy is the priority because I've been pinged by way too many red flags outta them. They hopped off the Lime wagon when it started to gain speed, they're among the ones who originally suggested and were vehemently pushing for the Quin/Epi/Kate PoE along JJJ (which by the way fell off BAD after mid-day 1), and their intonation shifted a lot after the D1 - becoming a lot more "serious".

That being said, I really dislike Roxy slot too. I've seen little to no contributing from them - with a noticeable lack of reads and impressions throughout most of the phases, a lot of filler mafia philosophy talk, and arguments that are quite the hypocrisy (being against meta arguments but being one of the first ones to use them in the reads). But I feel like the last mafia is someone who's been more actively influencing the game, which makes me prioritize Wilgy.

I'm 92% sure scum is one of those two slots.

Hi new player.

I like to try my best to show respect to other players while I am not perfect and do make mistakes I really really dislike someone telling me that - the "HATE", they dislike me, I am not contributing, noticeable lack of, filler talk, not influencing the game.

I am so sorry I am not playing your preferred way.

kk this is just in the first few posts of catch up so yeah, your buzz words killed my mafia playing mood .......................

It is bumming me out but I will try to continue.

oml I don't hate you on a personal level, you seem like an enjoyable person and I'm sure you're a good player

I'm just uncomfortable with the lack I'd personally consider to be AI, in particular the lack of stuff I'd consider towny from your posts

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:16 pm

Spoiler: show

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:10 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:59 pm I randomly had the thought a couple of hours ago that wolf-Ex might kill Abigail because we made out like she was super townread when summarising the game to him.

I don't actually remember to what extent that's true and would have to read things but that's hilarious if that actually happened.

Paranoid and bad thought, I would've shot you or Michelle.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:05 pm Nice to see Wilgy get spewed town by the NK though.

???

I mean it's less a *real* read and more me being amused that I randomly had the thought that Abigail might die as a wtf kill and then Abigail died as a wtf kill.

Initial take was that Wilgy probably wouldn't make that kill since 1. Abigail was his only real vocal defender and 2. The kill spews me as town and I am the person he'd need to try to F3 elim as a wolf after your elim to win.

This is the second time of you saying the kill spews you as town.

I am sorry I have seen a lot of things while playing mafia why you think *anyone* would be clear after a NK or Elim is beyond my understanding.

Brilliant play is just brilliant. "Doing things you never do when playing would make everyone doubt it was you." is brilliant play.
Play I have been burned by a number of times.

No kill/elim clears anyone for me.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:16 pm

Spoiler: show

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:10 pm

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:08 pm I reread the game last night so I'm finally caught up.
Wiml is never mafia here. Michelle is very unlikely to be mafia too.

I do not like the Quin Lynch D2, I do not mind the Epi Lynch D3, but he definitely wasn't a priority. I'm sorry for not being able to catch up by the EoD on D3.

Overall I just HATE Wilgy and Roxy's slots and those should've been the priority since D2 imo
Can the remaining players give me reads on those two without using any meta arguments?

For today I think Wilgy is the priority because I've been pinged by way too many red flags outta them. They hopped off the Lime wagon when it started to gain speed, they're among the ones who originally suggested and were vehemently pushing for the Quin/Epi/Kate PoE along JJJ (which by the way fell off BAD after mid-day 1), and their intonation shifted a lot after the D1 - becoming a lot more "serious".

That being said, I really dislike Roxy slot too. I've seen little to no contributing from them - with a noticeable lack of reads and impressions throughout most of the phases, a lot of filler mafia philosophy talk, and arguments that are quite the hypocrisy (being against meta arguments but being one of the first ones to use them in the reads). But I feel like the last mafia is someone who's been more actively influencing the game, which makes me prioritize Wilgy.

I'm 92% sure scum is one of those two slots.

What were your thoughts on Abi while reading through?

I always have a hard time reading her, so I'm actually glad her slot was solved tbh.

Overall, she seemed mainly towny after some big walls where she shared her thoughts (around late D1 or D2 I think? JJJ was still alive) because I know she's a bit more reluctant to do that as scum. And from a recent game it seems like she's a bit of a defeatist when in a tough spot, so she would've probably not been as cheerful as she was here.
There was only one post (#162) that had really bothered me D1 though, where Lime agreed with Abigail having good vibes as wolf, so one of the first things I wanted to do when the day started was ask her if she had ever played with him before because that seemed like a potential scumslip.

I disagree with your PA reads.

She is not a reluctant mafia lol far from it I have seen her call herself a "Woof God" more than once. She is never reluctant to share her one liner thoughts.

Lately she had been struggling to be cheerful so this game was a wonderful change bc it was nice to see them having fun while playing.

Last game I was a host and she said in the thread there was only 2 people she liked that were playing. Her whole mind frame seems to have changed from that game to this one.

PA and Lime have played together before - yes.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:43 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:16 pm

Spoiler: show

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:10 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:59 pm I randomly had the thought a couple of hours ago that wolf-Ex might kill Abigail because we made out like she was super townread when summarising the game to him.

I don't actually remember to what extent that's true and would have to read things but that's hilarious if that actually happened.

Paranoid and bad thought, I would've shot you or Michelle.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:05 pm Nice to see Wilgy get spewed town by the NK though.

???

I mean it's less a *real* read and more me being amused that I randomly had the thought that Abigail might die as a wtf kill and then Abigail died as a wtf kill.

Initial take was that Wilgy probably wouldn't make that kill since 1. Abigail was his only real vocal defender and 2. The kill spews me as town and I am the person he'd need to try to F3 elim as a wolf after your elim to win.

This is the second time of you saying the kill spews you as town.

I am sorry I have seen a lot of things while playing mafia why you think *anyone* would be clear after a NK or Elim is beyond my understanding.

Brilliant play is just brilliant. "Doing things you never do when playing would make everyone doubt it was you." is brilliant play.
Play I have been burned by a number of times.

No kill/elim clears anyone for me.

Not sure where you think I said it the first time tbh.

But nah, at least as the meta tends to be right now these things tend to be discarded as WIFOM. I obviously could choose to kill Abigail over Michelle as a wolf for example but making such a suboptimal kill from my perspective would never be worthwhile for minimal, if any, towncred (as is obvious from the fact that I got no towncred from it here lol). So it's much closer to playing worse for no benefit than it is "brilliant play".

(I brought it up as a point for Wilgy specifically because I still thought that he'd be worried about spewing me town and out of the PoE due to how much he would need me in the PoE for him to win but it's a point I dropped shortly after making the post).

However, self towncasing myself wasn't the point of that post. There are many less WIFOM-y reasons why I'm town.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:41 am

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:34 am

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:08 pm I reread the game last night so I'm finally caught up.
Wiml is never mafia here. Michelle is very unlikely to be mafia too.

I do not like the Quin Lynch D2, I do not mind the Epi Lynch D3, but he definitely wasn't a priority. I'm sorry for not being able to catch up by the EoD on D3.

Overall I just HATE Wilgy and Roxy's slots and those should've been the priority since D2 imo
Can the remaining players give me reads on those two without using any meta arguments?

For today I think Wilgy is the priority because I've been pinged by way too many red flags outta them. They hopped off the Lime wagon when it started to gain speed, they're among the ones who originally suggested and were vehemently pushing for the Quin/Epi/Kate PoE along JJJ (which by the way fell off BAD after mid-day 1), and their intonation shifted a lot after the D1 - becoming a lot more "serious".

That being said, I really dislike Roxy slot too. I've seen little to no contributing from them - with a noticeable lack of reads and impressions throughout most of the phases, a lot of filler mafia philosophy talk, and arguments that are quite the hypocrisy (being against meta arguments but being one of the first ones to use them in the reads). But I feel like the last mafia is someone who's been more actively influencing the game, which makes me prioritize Wilgy.

I'm 92% sure scum is one of those two slots.

Hi new player.

I like to try my best to show respect to other players while I am not perfect and do make mistakes I really really dislike someone telling me that - the "HATE", they dislike me, I am not contributing, noticeable lack of, filler talk, not influencing the game.

I am so sorry I am not playing your preferred way.

kk this is just in the first few posts of catch up so yeah, your buzz words killed my mafia playing mood .......................

It is bumming me out but I will try to continue.

oml I don't hate you on a personal level, you seem like an enjoyable person and I'm sure you're a good player

I'm just uncomfortable with the lack I'd personally consider to be AI, in particular the lack of stuff I'd consider towny from your posts

So sorry if my wording was too harsh!!!!!

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:49 am [quote=_ExLight post_id=<a href="tel:1073246">1073246</a> time=<a href="tel:1691529412">1691529412</a> user_id=1179]

Spoiler: show

[quote=Wiml post_id=<a href="tel:1073244">1073244</a> time=<a href="tel:1691529021">1691529021</a> user_id=938]
[quote=_ExLight post_id=<a href="tel:1073242">1073242</a> time=<a href="tel:1691528905">1691528905</a> user_id=1179]
I reread the game last night so I'm finally caught up.
Wiml is never mafia here. Michelle is very unlikely to be mafia too.

I do not like the Quin Lynch D2, I do not mind the Epi Lynch D3, but he definitely wasn't a priority. I'm sorry for not being able to catch up by the EoD on D3.

Overall I just HATE Wilgy and Roxy's slots and those should've been the priority since D2 imo
Can the remaining players give me reads on those two without using any meta arguments?

For today I think Wilgy is the priority because I've been pinged by way too many red flags outta them. They hopped off the Lime wagon when it started to gain speed, they're among the ones who originally suggested and were vehemently pushing for the Quin/Epi/Kate PoE along JJJ (which by the way fell off BAD after mid-day 1), and their intonation shifted a lot after the D1 - becoming a lot more "serious".

That being said, I really dislike Roxy slot too. I've seen little to no contributing from them - with a noticeable lack of reads and impressions throughout most of the phases, a lot of filler mafia philosophy talk, and arguments that are quite the hypocrisy (being against meta arguments but being one of the first ones to use them in the reads). But I feel like the last mafia is someone who's been more actively influencing the game, which makes me prioritize Wilgy.

I'm 92% sure scum is one of those two slots.

What were your thoughts on Abi while reading through?
[/quote][/spoiler]
I always have a hard time reading her, so I'm actually glad her slot was solved tbh.

Overall, she seemed mainly towny after some big walls where she shared her thoughts (around late D1 or D2 I think? JJJ was still alive) because I know she's a bit more reluctant to do that as scum. And from a recent game it seems like she's a bit of a defeatist when in a tough spot, so she would've probably not been as cheerful as she was here.
There was only one post (#162) that had really bothered me D1 though, where Lime agreed with Abigail having good vibes as wolf, so one of the first things I wanted to do when the day started was ask her if she had ever played with him before because that seemed like a potential scumslip.
[/quote]

I disagree with your PA reads.

She is not a reluctant mafia lol far from it I have seen her call herself a "Woof God" more than once. She is never reluctant to share her one liner thoughts.

Lately she had been struggling to be cheerful so this game was a wonderful change bc it was nice to see them having fun while playing.

Last game I was a host and she said in the thread there was only 2 people she liked that were playing. Her whole mind frame seems to have changed from that game to this one.

PA and Lime have played together before - yes.
[/quote]
From my experience with her she did go through an overly confident phase that affected both her town and mafia game, but it always felt a bit of "fake til you make it" rather than her being comfortable. In another ZD game she had quite the clash with a player called alana, and since then my impression in the games with her have been a bit more ground leveled.

In the bulbagarden game I linked to Wiml which is very very recent it was pretty clear how she was hesitating, prolly due to being a 3p hostile. To be fair it's not the same as being mafia, but I feel like it's comparable since it also doesn't want to be spotted by Town.

Yea, her back at being more cheerful here is nice. And she played great. If ur reading this I'll try my best to avenge u Neon xoxo.

Mkay, good to know she had played with Lime before. Thanks. Doesnt matter much now that she got shot, though lol.

WHY ARE MY QUOTES BREAKING
im gonna ducking cry

is it because I'm trying to multiquote on mobile

_ExLight wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:04 am is it because I'm trying to multiquote on mobile

Works fine for me

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:21 pm Abgail didn't die as a WTF kill. Nobody did so far.

Falcon was obviously Town because Lime only got FUCKED because he trying to push for his lynch with the jankiest arguments. JJJ was pretty much towncleared as well because they hounded the shit outta Lime. Abgail was likely picked because she wasn't in the PoE the thread been pushing for - everyone remaining here was discussed to some degree (with exception of maybe Michelle?), which makes pretty clear the last scum is either controlling the PoE narrative or at the very least keeping a close eye on the thread.
Which by the way is wild as fuck because I was certain Wiml was gonna get shot because that D1 interaction is definitely a townclear in my book, but I guess people throwing the weird shade and saying nonsense about them being potential mafia was enough to avert a kill.

Wiml looks way better during the Lime elim than JJJ.

Abigail was killed bc she was widely regarded as IC. Her last list of trust kind of puts me in a position to maybe follow them but tbh we have rarely worked together and the first time we do she gets NK'ed.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:24 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:02 pm @DrWilgy please remember that I'm on mobile and can't respond to very last minute vote switches like yesterday lol.

But I can, and it's fun!

I am sorry for the crap post but this is funny and is Wigly in their finest form.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:08 am

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:21 pm Abgail didn't die as a WTF kill. Nobody did so far.

Falcon was obviously Town because Lime only got FUCKED because he trying to push for his lynch with the jankiest arguments. JJJ was pretty much towncleared as well because they hounded the shit outta Lime. Abgail was likely picked because she wasn't in the PoE the thread been pushing for - everyone remaining here was discussed to some degree (with exception of maybe Michelle?), which makes pretty clear the last scum is either controlling the PoE narrative or at the very least keeping a close eye on the thread.
Which by the way is wild as fuck because I was certain Wiml was gonna get shot because that D1 interaction is definitely a townclear in my book, but I guess people throwing the weird shade and saying nonsense about them being potential mafia was enough to avert a kill.

Wiml looks way better during the Lime elim than JJJ.

Abigail was killed bc she was widely regarded as IC. Her last list of trust kind of puts me in a position to maybe follow them but tbh we have rarely worked together and the first time we do she gets NK'ed.

Why did you think that Abi died over Michelle or you when you were both arguably more townread than her?

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 6:06 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:46 pm @Wiml your reaction to me voting you near EoD was odd. Why wouldn't you have voted Abigail to save yourself? Why did you feel the need to encourage Epi onto me?

At the time of my posting, the wagons were:

Epignosis - 2 - Abigail, Wiml
Abigail - 1 - Epignosis
Wiml - 1 - Wilgy

I am never, ever letting anybody flip that EoD who isn't in my PoE because that is how we lose the game if the PoE is correct and I am never letting myself flip obviously.

I didn't want Epi to want / need to self pres onto me and I thought he was likely town due to initial refusal to self pres so I basically forced him to vote you as he had no other option.

Epignosis - 1 - Abigail
Wilgy - 2 - Epignosis, Wiml
Wiml - 1 - Wilgy

I knew this would force you to self pres onto Epignosis regardless of if you were initially joking or not and create Epi/Wilgy tied wagons and then give me the deciding vote between the tie or breaking it to flip Epi.

Epignosis - 2 - Abigail, Wilgy
Wilgy - 2 - Epignosis, Wiml

And then at this point I can rest easy that the vote will remain in my PoE and was in two minds about if I was going to switch back to Epi or not due to above-mentioned towniness.

I was aware that Michelle was present but wasn't certain where she would vote between Epi and me so I wanted to remove myself from being a viable wagon entirely to make sure nothing terrible happened there.

Worth noting that I thought you'd likely switch back to Epi but I didn't want to take risks and see a non-PoE player or myself flip, especially because again I was on mobile and unable to self pres last minute.

I'm a slow typer at the best of times so I obviously couldn't fully communicate everything I thought within such a short time period. I just needed to make sure that no funny business happened with me or Abi flipping over last minute.

ngl, that eod was absolutely wonky and I am sorry I was trapped by a storm and missed it bc that was soooo pingy to me but I am still catching up so I will let it rest in my brain until i finish.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:27 pm

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill

It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?

I agree with this.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:44 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:27 pm

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:51 pm Wilgy can I hear your thoughts about the night kill

It's being utilized to manipulate me.

You've inquired me about it and Wiml said I'm cleared by it.

Is there some conclusion you'd like for me to have come to?

Manipulate you how?
And clear you how?

No, I want to gather more information from you and for that I need you to keep talking about what I think is relevant.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:45 pm And for the record I could not give two fucks about what Wiml currently fried brain thinks. I'm asking you.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:50 pm

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:45 pm And for the record I could not give two fucks about what Wiml currently fried brain thinks. I'm asking you.

But why do you feel the need to comment this? The spew comment was made by Wiml in the first place.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:58 pm Abigail NK makes sense when I just think on it. It accomplishes alot I think, Abigail has Roxy and I as TR (that you seem more than happy to leap on now). Abigail also knowing you I think could crack the game open by forming a conclusion on you.

I agree. Her townreads of you, Michelle and I then being the NK is obv to me. It was made so all this posturing could happen.

For ExLite to think that PA would have townread them OVER you is really a lot to swallow and except, bc I do not except that thought at all.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:02 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:53 pm

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:48 pm The one thing I did ask more broadly and that I'd appreciate Wiml's comment would be an answer on my request for non-meta reasons to townread you (Wilgy) or Roxy in the current game.

Read JJJ's ISO if you want that.

My Roxy read is meta and gut. If Roxy bus'd LC there was quite literally 0 posturing around that. I feel that W Roxy would've made a bigger deal of it ESPECIALLY if they went out of their meta so hard to bus.

Again, I'm asking for original thoughts. Why do I have to read JJJ's thoughts if I'm asking for the ones of the current players? You've been pushing his PoE for the past 3 Days and it was a full Town group, I think it's pretty clear at this point his D2 ISOs weren't reliable.

You don't have any non-meta reason to townread her? If she didn't do a single significantly town thing in this game why are you clearing them?

this reads as ExLite twisting the post up to mean want they want it mean when Wigly's thoughts have been quite clear.

Roxy, very important question but on a 1-10 scale how much do you townread Wiml and who would you vote if Wilgy flipped Town?

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:26 pm It's a bit hard to tell because there aren't enough vote histories, but from I can see Roxy literally voted Lime when he was almost getting hammered, this wouldn't even count bussing, it's just placing beating a dead horse.

If anything her delaying her vote on Lime when asked about it by saying something along the lines of "I'll vote closer to EoD cuz my vote is sacred" or something shows hesitation to me.

Is there anything else?

no hesistation in my vote i am sorry i do not play or vote how you wish I would.

But I grew up playing this game when you only won if alive at the end.

There was no changeable votes.

You hold your reads to yourself about who you find as town and only discuss your baddie reads, something I am slowly trying to acclimate to my playstyle.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:27 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:15 pm

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:12 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:10 pm @Ex would've Wiml known to kill Abigail to break you two apart?

No, I don't think they ever played together so he wouldn't how she interacts with me.

Aye, I think the only two to know this would get you and me, unless somehow she just got hit in the crossfire, but I don't know what would cause that.

I think though, if my goal is to really separate you and Abigail, I NK you instead and hope Abigail doesn't waver.

Is that the type of analysis you are looking for?

That's a better one, yea.
Answer without thinking much, what you think my winrate is as Town?

wtaf? lmao I do not think I have ever seen this question asked in a game. It does not give me warm fuzzies.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:59 pm My PoE was and is You and Wiml (has been my 'I might be wrong' for a minute now). Wiml goes from having me as the counter to now spewed. I think it's reasonable to see the agenda of 'Wiml killed Abigail and is now raising that as a positive to me to pocket me.' Further, you ask specifically for my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if I've seen your own conclusion for it yet, thus it's also reasonable for me to question 'Ex killed Abigail and is questioning me specifically, what are they hoping to impress upon me?' I have no resistance to discussing it, but both you AND wiml's discussion had me as a subject thus leading to questioning.

Pulled this quote out of a response to ExLite.

I thought the spewed thing was weird. PA had Me, Michelle and you in her trust circle for awhile. For Wiml to just pull you along as spewed read as a pocket attempt to try and get you to side with them for whatever their agenda is today.

It is why I hate pockets or attempts to pocket.

Ex Light I am sorry i have been typing your name wrong as Ex Lite. I'll be more careful. I apologize.

@_ExLight I believe I hammered Limey's elim. FYI.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:34 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:59 pm My PoE was and is You and Wiml (has been my 'I might be wrong' for a minute now). Wiml goes from having me as the counter to now spewed. I think it's reasonable to see the agenda of 'Wiml killed Abigail and is now raising that as a positive to me to pocket me.' Further, you ask specifically for my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if I've seen your own conclusion for it yet, thus it's also reasonable for me to question 'Ex killed Abigail and is questioning me specifically, what are they hoping to impress upon me?' I have no resistance to discussing it, but both you AND wiml's discussion had me as a subject thus leading to questioning.

Pulled this quote out of a response to ExLite.

I thought the spewed thing was weird. PA had Me, Michelle and you in her trust circle for awhile. For Wiml to just pull you along as spewed read as a pocket attempt to try and get you to side with them for whatever their agenda is today.

It is why I hate pockets or attempts to pocket.

No, PA had me, you and Wilgy in her trust circle. Not Michelle.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:22 am

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:02 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:53 pm

_ExLight wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:48 pm The one thing I did ask more broadly and that I'd appreciate Wiml's comment would be an answer on my request for non-meta reasons to townread you (Wilgy) or Roxy in the current game.

Read JJJ's ISO if you want that.

My Roxy read is meta and gut. If Roxy bus'd LC there was quite literally 0 posturing around that. I feel that W Roxy would've made a bigger deal of it ESPECIALLY if they went out of their meta so hard to bus.

Again, I'm asking for original thoughts. Why do I have to read JJJ's thoughts if I'm asking for the ones of the current players? You've been pushing his PoE for the past 3 Days and it was a full Town group, I think it's pretty clear at this point his D2 ISOs weren't reliable.

You don't have any non-meta reason to townread her? If she didn't do a single significantly town thing in this game why are you clearing them?

this reads as ExLite twisting the post up to mean want they want it mean when Wigly's thoughts have been quite clear.

1. I struggle a bit with English so I might not express myself as clearly as I wished for
2. I am not familiar with Mafia jargon and verbiage so I'll often ask for information to be dumbed down
3. I mainly asked two things, their opinion on the kill, and a non-meta read on you. Throwing loose terms like "agenda" and "manipulate" don't explain anything. If they felt like there was such a thing going in play I'd appreciate if they took their time to elaborate on the thoughts rather than be ominously vague about something as conspiracy-like as people discussing the kill being an evil plot. They did make a post I considered better on later on where they elaborated a lot on what they meant, in a way closer to what I was looking for.
As for the asking them for THEIR take on you, I'd appreciate if they found proper non-meta and in-game reasons for their read. If all they had were meta reads and gut feelings like they said then it means they don't have something like a read or vote you made that stood out, as such it clearly doesn't hold the case for me. They later mentioned that they didn't think you'd bus Lime, which is more tangible, but that vote personally didn't make much of an impression to me because Lime's fate was sealed already by then.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:37 am @_ExLight I believe I hammered Limey's elim. FYI.

You didn't lol.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:36 am Ex Light I am sorry i have been typing your name wrong as Ex Lite. I'll be more careful. I apologize.

ExLite is kinda cute, I don't mind lol

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:04 am The kill was mildly a good look for Wilgy and nothing more.

I very rarely clear based on NKA. I can say that somebody is spewed town by something without having them as a clear.

why just Wigly tho? Not Michelle? Not me?