The Syndicate

wtf

I tried to tell you guys he wasn't bad. RIP BF.

Pied Piper info?

I'm sorry I missed this vote guys. Won't happen again.

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm sorry I missed this vote guys. Won't happen again.

Why didn't you tell us who you would have voted for in this post?

I honestly don't know. I don't understand where the case on BF even came from, but it's easy to say post result that I wouldn't have voted there so whatever.

I'm starting to think I need a mafia break I have no idea what I'm doing this game.

But where did all those votes on BF come from? I didn't realize people were going to bandwagon my vote. Then again, I'm not sure how I feel about those who voted for a different person.

I'm wondering about the votes for Timmer. I started out thinking Timmer was bad, but he gained my trust more and more as the game progressed, mostly since I thought he wouldn't have come up with the theory of Bass 1.0 had he been bad. I just went to look at the roles, and I realize, it's still possible for him to be an arch-villain, since we have no idea what their win conditions are. I feel like every game, there's a player I trust a lot that turns out to be the big bad wolf. Going by those I trust, Timmer and TH fit that concept the most. With TH, while he's not putting into the game what I expect of him by this stage, I don't know if it's the championship game that's making him like this or something else.

If Timmer is someone I should trust, then his voters might not be. I feel like BR, even though has legit reasons for not being here, is not putting effort into finding baddies. She always comes in, writes something, and then votes for a person who doesn't have enough votes to get lynched. Seems like a cop out. SVS is practically doing that too. She's done it in the Bass vote, and here as well. Granted, BF turned out to be a civ, and the votes for him just piled up too fast, but it's like she's trying to stay out of the line of fire.

Question is, is Timmer good or bad? Like I said, I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing this game

You think voting for the thread leader is staying out of the line of fire?

BF was my one map partner. I trusted him for the most part. I wish I had defended him more, but I was worried it was like the Bass situation again, that I would stick up for him and he would be bad. That he fooled me.

S~V~S wrote:You think voting for the thread leader is staying out of the line of fire?

BF was my one map partner. I trusted him for the most part. I wish I had defended him more, but I was worried it was like the Bass situation again, that I would stick up for him and he would be bad. That he fooled me.

I really don't know what to think anymore. Why do you think Timmer is bad? Also, what do you think of BR? And yeah, I wish you would have defended BF more...not that it takes anything away from my responsibility in this
Also, you voted for TH and then later said you felt better about him. What do you think now?

Sunday, 6:10 PM

timmer wrote:

FZ. wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Timmer what do you think of BF?

Why isn't llama answering this? There's a chance I'm going to vote for BF. His suspicions seem too easy, and have you noticed that he focuses on one player per day? It's like he doesn't need to bother himself with commenting on all the rest because he already has a suspect. In my opinion, that's usually more a baddie tell than a civvie one

I just did a complete reread of BF.

About the only really ping-y thing i could see was his "wtf?" reaction to how the Bass 1.0 lynch went down. For the rest, I've got an alignment in mind for him, and he seems to be pursuing leads as he sees them. I'm not sure I could say he's bad, but I don't think he's an Old Rogue, either. I won't vote for him, but won't really be going out of my way to defend him, if that makes sense?

Sunday, 6:51 PM:

timmer wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Timmer if you had to vote right now who would you vote for?

Well I'm not going to toss my vote or anything, so I'll likely go along with either the bf or DH lynch idea. Neither is great imo, BF's posts read a certain way, and DH's reply about Made is conflicting me, but neither of them feels like a civvie, so I don't think a lynch in their direction is necessarily bad.

In between these two posts, the only real mention of BF is Llamas mild "I dunno, I don't think he's bad" post. So not sure what got Timmer from 6:10 to 6:51 here.

I want to reread BF/Timmer, especially day 1 & 2 today. He said something to me about Timmer, something that Timmer said that BF thought had to do with his own role, and Night One targets. Now that I know what his role actually is, perhaps I can make sense of that. BFs thoughts on Timmer were part of the reason I was not 100% trusting BF. As I said, I trusted him for the most part, but that one thing was weird.

I have to read and think about this. And make a post about it before night ends

Worst result possible!

Llama lynch me if you would like - but you given no reason nor did you bother to respond to me.
You said you would be looking at your voters but you have done nothing to help. Since you are a confirmed civ you need to take more of a leadership role. Stop the nonsense and actually try.

I am not going to become your next bullzeye (see what I did there?) I wil no longer defend if you all want to lynch me just do it. but a reason would be good.

Roxy wrote:Worst result possible!

Llama lynch me if you would like - but you given no reason nor did you bother to respond to me.
You said you would be looking at your voters but you have done nothing to help. Since you are a confirmed civ you need to take more of a leadership role. Stop the nonsense and actually try.

I am not going to become your next bullzeye (see what I did there?) I wil no longer defend if you all want to lynch me just do it. but a reason would be good.

Don't tell me what to do, Roxy. I gave a reason for suspecting you. I still suspect you. You can't bully me into changing my mind. I have to lead? I have to do no such thing. Virtually no one in the thread is leading. Go after one of them. I'm already a target for NKs since everyone knows my role, and you want me to stick my neck out further? Well, as the philosopher Jagger said, you can't always get what you want.

I was cursed to suspect BF and you guys lynched him. WTF?

RIP BF.

Hello All! I'm excited to try and get back into the games! I'll do my best to keep my participation and general helpfulness up

Can anyone give me a brief, unbiased summary of the suspicions thus far? At least, as unbiased as humanly possible at this point. Lol.
I'm going to try and read up on how the whole map thing works, along with the rest of the game mechanics.

Welcome Devin!

Bullzeye is bad. Roxy is bad. I'm good, and so are several of my friends. I think that's all you need to know.

thellama73 wrote:Welcome Devin!

Bullzeye is bad. Roxy is bad. I'm good, and so are several of my friends. I think that's all you need to know.

String me up then. I'd love to prove you wrong. Have already said I don't care any more, as long as I'm lynched. I've pretty much been daring people to lynch me for a while now, but no takers.

thellama73 wrote:Welcome Devin!

Bullzeye is bad. Roxy is bad. I'm good, and so are several of my friends. I think that's all you need to know.

That's a good list of baddies. I would include LC too.

thellama73 wrote:Welcome Devin!

Bullzeye is bad. Roxy is bad. I'm good, and so are several of my friends. I think that's all you need to know.

Well, you are a confirmed detective llama. I guess that will work for now

I'd actually like to see cases against me. I'd like everyone who plans to vote for me to explain in detail exactly why. That way everyone knows who to stop listening to once I flip civ. I'll probably be voting myself anyway FWIW.

Bullzeye wrote:I'd actually like to see cases against me. I'd like everyone who plans to vote for me to explain in detail exactly why. That way everyone knows who to stop listening to once I flip civ. I'll probably be voting myself anyway FWIW.

See, it's this kind of petulance that makes me feel bad about you, Bullz. You sound like a baddie angry about being caught for the wrong reasons, and you haven't let it go since I first brought up your name. Instead of being proactive and coming up with alternative suspects, you just complain that my suspicion of you is unfair and predict that you will get NKed over and over again.

thellama73 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:I'd actually like to see cases against me. I'd like everyone who plans to vote for me to explain in detail exactly why. That way everyone knows who to stop listening to once I flip civ. I'll probably be voting myself anyway FWIW.

See, it's this kind of petulance that makes me feel bad about you, Bullz. You sound like a baddie angry about being caught for the wrong reasons, and you haven't let it go since I first brought up your name. Instead of being proactive and coming up with alternative suspects, you just complain that my suspicion of you is unfair and predict that you will get NKed over and over again.

I'm trying to do a quick skim-through to catch up. But why did you bring his name up the first time around?

thellama73 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:I'd actually like to see cases against me. I'd like everyone who plans to vote for me to explain in detail exactly why. That way everyone knows who to stop listening to once I flip civ. I'll probably be voting myself anyway FWIW.

See, it's this kind of petulance that makes me feel bad about you, Bullz. You sound like a baddie angry about being caught for the wrong reasons, and you haven't let it go since I first brought up your name. Instead of being proactive and coming up with alternative suspects, you just complain that my suspicion of you is unfair and predict that you will get NKed over and over again.

When have I predicted I'd be NKed since Night 1? You're making that up. I've alluded to the fact I'd rather be lynched but I haven't once said since day 2 began that I expect to be NKed. I'm not angry. I'm just done. There is no case against me, not really, just a handful of people constantly shouting that I'm bad for X or Y and then whenever I say otherwise I'm told I'm bad or angry or bad and angry for responding. I have given up because I'm tired of feeling like anything I say is just going to be twisted. BF even admitted he was planning to do so at one point. I've never called your suspicion of me unfair. Wrong doesn't mean unfair. Incorrect doesn't mean unfair. Silly doesn't mean unfair. I don't think it's unfair. I think you are deliberately misreading the things I say and making them fit your own narrative.

Devin, here is a summary of why Bullz caught my eye this game. I admit it's a more subjective "feelings-based" case than I usually make, but given the lack of BTSC in this game, it's what I had to go with, and I still feel the same way.

thellama73 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Just curious.

Any pings yet? If not, I request that you give our old friend Bullzeye a read.

You said I was your only ping but then you said you might vote Aces. So much for 'only'. Care to explain why I'm so pingy to you?

Aces is not a ping, I just might vote him for being a low poster.

Anyway, I'm extremely glad you asked!

*ahem*

In this game, it appears that BTSC connections are not a good indicator of baddieness (I say "it appears," although I do not like making assumptions when there are so may secrets.) So how to catch the baddies? You have to get inside their heads. I'm looking for people who know they are bad and therefore think "Oh, I don't want to be caught, better be careful!" I am looking for people posting in such a way to lead me to believe that this is their thought process. That's my baddie hunting strategy in general this game.

Now, in particular, I just got through watching you play a very adept baddie game in the comfort of your BTSC chat, and as I watched, I observed your behavior. I observed that you were very helpful and nice and tried to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. You are doing that. Now's the part where you say "I do that every game!" Well, maybe you do and maybe you don't, but I am seeing the baddie Bullz I just saw.

thellama73 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: Did you see the part in btsc where I said I always play my baddie game because it's the only game I know? Did you see the part in this game where I've been helpful and nice and given everyone the benefit of the doubt? All I've said this entire game amounts to "sometimes a joke is just a joke". What do you mean looking for people who know they are bad? Everyone knows their role. Everyone knows if they're good or bad as far as I can tell.

I was trying to go to sleep, but this post kept gnawing away at my brain until I finally realized why. Why does Bullz word his response in this way? Why does he say "I always play my baddie game"? Why not "I always play my civvie game" or "My baddie game and my civvie game look just alike"?

If he always plays his baddie game, that means he is playing it now. Why would anyone admit to playing their baddie game? Keeping my psychologist hat on for a moment, I think Bullz is being betrayed by his subconscious. Maybe even, on some deep level, he wants to get caught.

I'm going to go ahead and place my vote on him for now.

thellama73 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:Why would such a person 'want' to get caught? Why would anyone for that matter? I want to win. You don't win by dying.

Why does a criminal return to the scene of the crime? Why do serial killers intentionally leave clues to their identities? For most, the urge to do evil is accompanied by either a sense of guilt that drives one to subconsciously seek correction, or else a desire for recognition of one's evil deeds. The latter is why kids post videos of themselves committing crimes on youtube. The conscious desire to avoid detection exists, but it is at war with the subconscious desire to be recognized for one's achievements, heinous though they may be.

Thanks llama. Your argument makes sense, at least. I, too, have gotten myself backed into a corner multiple times as a baddie with behavior like this. It's definitely a psychological trap that's easy to fall into.
Since I've just started this game, though, I want to hear as many opinions/cases as possible before latching onto one in particular.

Any other suspicions?

Any other opinions on Bullzeye's alignment?

Thoughts from Bullzeye?

I think Bullzeye has already made his thoughts on the matter known. He's disgruntled about the whole suspicion of him, and is planning on voting himself to get it over with and prove his accusers wrong. He believes this will prove we shouldn't listen to his accusers, and perhaps we should even suspect them, but blindfaeth was his main original accuser, and was a Civvie.

As for my own opinion on Bullzeye, I'm just not sure. I'd say he's not Captain Cold or Heat Wave, because I think BF probably checked Bullz and reinforced his own opinion that he's less likely to be Civ. So that's 50% of the Old Rogues that 's not, in my opinion. He's not Magenta, because he'd have stopped a lynch by now to get BTSC with the Detectives (assuming my secret solution is right for her). He's not a Detective, I'd say.

Actually, after saying all that together, he's got a reasonably good chance of being a baddie. Or a "scum" as the broader Mafia vernacular prefers.

I'm not saying you should suspect anyone for coming after me, never have and never will. In fact, I've got a hilarious idea which I won't share til close to my lynch (whether that's day four or day fifty) that might lead to a decent suspect. It's the kind of theory that, if you share it too soon, you warn the baddies against taking the action that would otherwise condemn them. As for proving people shouldn't be listened to, certain people are acting like I'm so obviously bad and they should obviously be listened to and followed (one of these was BF, fwiw) and so proving them wrong would correct that a little.

Linki - There's still a 50% chance I'm an Old Rogue, and a reasonable chance I'm independent. In that case, I'd be siding with the civs because as much as I say indies are lame for always doing that, there's a good reason why it happens.

Other suspicions I have are Roxy and Aces. They have been trusting each other since a hot night of torrid map BTSC, so I don't really know what happened there.

Soneji is a mild suspicion of mine as well, due to his frustrated attitude toward the lack of BTSC among the baddies, and his general extreme low-lying play. However, he might just be MIA in general.

Bullzeye wrote:I'm not saying you should suspect anyone for coming after me, never have and never will. In fact, I've got a hilarious idea which I won't share til close to my lynch (whether that's day four or day fifty) that might lead to a decent suspect. It's the kind of theory that, if you share it too soon, you warn the baddies against taking the action that would otherwise condemn them. As for proving people shouldn't be listened to, certain people are acting like I'm so obviously bad and they should obviously be listened to and followed (one of these was BF, fwiw) and so proving them wrong would correct that a little.

Linki - There's still a 50% chance I'm an Old Rogue, and a reasonable chance I'm independent. In that case, I'd be siding with the civs because as much as I say indies are lame for always doing that, there's a good reason why it happens.

Yeah, you could still easily be an Old Rogue or Indy.

Long Con wrote:As for my own opinion on Bullzeye, I'm just not sure. I'd say he's not Captain Cold or Heat Wave, because I think BF probably checked Bullz and reinforced his own opinion that he's less likely to be Civ. So that's 50% of the Old Rogues that 's not, in my opinion. He's not Magenta, because he'd have stopped a lynch by now to get BTSC with the Detectives (assuming my secret solution is right for her). He's not a Detective, I'd say.

Actually, after saying all that together, he's got a reasonably good chance of being a baddie. Or a "scum" as the broader Mafia vernacular prefers.

I think he's most probably an independent Rogue, but that's me. That said, if he's not interested in defending himself, I'm not going to be defending him.
LC, has your opinion of BR changed or actually, do you have any opinion of her now?

linki: Bullz, if you have a theory, why not share it? This kind of attitude is frustrating me. You pay attention to those who allegedly wrongly go after you, but you won't help those who have not voted for you since day 1

FZ. wrote: linki: Bullz, if you have a theory, why not share it? This kind of attitude is frustrating me. You pay attention to those who allegedly wrongly go after you, but you won't help those who have not voted for you since day 1

My theory says a person who does X in Y condition is likely to be a baddie. If I reveal what X is before anyone has done it, then the baddies are warned against doing X. When you're doing science, you don't reveal the hypotheses to the participants until they're debriefed. I do intend to try and find baddies, I'm just frustrated and grumpy as well.

Okay, I'll be eagerly waiting

Bullzeye wrote:I'm not saying you should suspect anyone for coming after me, never have and never will. In fact, I've got a hilarious idea which I won't share til close to my lynch (whether that's day four or day fifty) that might lead to a decent suspect. It's the kind of theory that, if you share it too soon, you warn the baddies against taking the action that would otherwise condemn them. As for proving people shouldn't be listened to, certain people are acting like I'm so obviously bad and they should obviously be listened to and followed (one of these was BF, fwiw) and so proving them wrong would correct that a little.

Linki - There's still a 50% chance I'm an Old Rogue, and a reasonable chance I'm independent. In that case, I'd be siding with the civs because as much as I say indies are lame for always doing that, there's a good reason why it happens.

So you can say anyone is bad with your experiment.




I like it.

FZ. wrote:

Long Con wrote:As for my own opinion on Bullzeye, I'm just not sure. I'd say he's not Captain Cold or Heat Wave, because I think BF probably checked Bullz and reinforced his own opinion that he's less likely to be Civ. So that's 50% of the Old Rogues that 's not, in my opinion. He's not Magenta, because he'd have stopped a lynch by now to get BTSC with the Detectives (assuming my secret solution is right for her). He's not a Detective, I'd say.

Actually, after saying all that together, he's got a reasonably good chance of being a baddie. Or a "scum" as the broader Mafia vernacular prefers.

I think he's most probably an independent Rogue, but that's me. That said, if he's not interested in defending himself, I'm not going to be defending him.
LC, has your opinion of BR changed or actually, do you have any opinion of her now?

I usually stay away from too much in-thread analysis of BR because she's my wife and we most often use the same computer and that kind of meta-analysis can get to be a little sketchy. Why are you specifically asking me about BR, and no one else? I just make it a general rule when playing in the same game as her to keep my distance, at least until later in the game, and let other players make their own unbiased analyses of her.

I do have an opinion of her, I'm just not going to share it until later in the game, presuming we're still alive. You should develop an opinion of her that doesn't involve my opinion of her, I just think it's a more generally fair way to play.

Long Con wrote:

FZ. wrote:

Long Con wrote:As for my own opinion on Bullzeye, I'm just not sure. I'd say he's not Captain Cold or Heat Wave, because I think BF probably checked Bullz and reinforced his own opinion that he's less likely to be Civ. So that's 50% of the Old Rogues that 's not, in my opinion. He's not Magenta, because he'd have stopped a lynch by now to get BTSC with the Detectives (assuming my secret solution is right for her). He's not a Detective, I'd say.

Actually, after saying all that together, he's got a reasonably good chance of being a baddie. Or a "scum" as the broader Mafia vernacular prefers.

I think he's most probably an independent Rogue, but that's me. That said, if he's not interested in defending himself, I'm not going to be defending him.
LC, has your opinion of BR changed or actually, do you have any opinion of her now?

I usually stay away from too much in-thread analysis of BR because she's my wife and we most often use the same computer and that kind of meta-analysis can get to be a little sketchy. Why are you specifically asking me about BR, and no one else? I just make it a general rule when playing in the same game as her to keep my distance, at least until later in the game, and let other players make their own unbiased analyses of her.

I do have an opinion of her, I'm just not going to share it until later in the game, presuming we're still alive. You should develop an opinion of her that doesn't involve my opinion of her, I just think it's a more generally fair way to play.

I already said that I'm not liking how she's playing this game. I'm just trying to get any validation for how I'm seeing things, and I thought you'd be a good person to ask. But fair enough, I can see where you're coming from. That said, I do want an opinion from everyone on her, you included. While asking you specifically isn't fair, you not sharing anything on how you feel about her is also not very fair.


Anyway, what are people's thoughts on BR?

Devin the Omniscient wrote:Hello All! I'm excited to try and get back into the games! I'll do my best to keep my participation and general helpfulness up

Can anyone give me a brief, unbiased summary of the suspicions thus far? At least, as unbiased as humanly possible at this point. Lol.
I'm going to try and read up on how the whole map thing works, along with the rest of the game mechanics.

DEVIN! It's so good to have you back!

just arrived, sorry sorry sorry for being so absent, i was out of my mind busy with things last week, first my brother, then my grandmas 90s birthday, i literally had no time, but things will change from today on, so im happy to being back
sorry host too, for not being here and missing votes, etc
ill catch up and contribute soon
thanks all for the patience

Welcome Devin

im just catching up, and the roxy/aces thing seems extremely suspicion, imo

just posting as im reading


(ill go and continue reading)

It was very weird. Everyone suspected Roxy for days, and was all up her face that last day, then she reveals she is talking to Aces, and everyone lost their shit, lol.

Like this person they were so suspicious of says this guy who has all the votes is A-OK, and suddenly a mad rush to save him ensues. Since Roxy & I were grouped together as bad in the beginning of the game by some people, I am not as sure of the case on her as some. But that whole thing was way strange.

Long Con wrote:Other suspicions I have are Roxy and Aces. They have been trusting each other since a hot night of torrid map BTSC, so I don't really know what happened there.

Soneji is a mild suspicion of mine as well, due to his frustrated attitude toward the lack of BTSC among the baddies, and his general extreme low-lying play. However, he might just be MIA in general.

What do you think of Timmer?

okay, so bf was lynced and he was a civvie, that sucks.
aces/roxy, i need to reread that combo
there are a bunch of people mentioning timmer, and i thinks its worth it to reread him too
rabbit, as in every game it seems, just comes and says he suspects LC. But in this one he doesnt add anything at all almost, like i said before, he doesnt seem usual rabbit or maybe he is, but somethings off, imo.
roxy seemed weird, theres something that doesnt sit right with me when i read her posts, aces seems civvier than roxy in appearence, but their whole defense is just odd, gonna reread
the whole bf lynch was too fast and votes piling up with almost no reason, also worth noticing

i reckon im very behind but im willing to catchup and comment on everything and try to help

now gotta go eat and then sleep, but tomorrow morning ill be back

la la la.

sis boom bah

I'm not getting bad vibes from Timmer, he's not currently a strong suspect for me.

S~V~S wrote:It was very weird. Everyone suspected Roxy for days, and was all up her face that last day, then she reveals she is talking to Aces, and everyone lost their shit, lol.

Like this person they were so suspicious of says this guy who has all the votes is A-OK, and suddenly a mad rush to save him ensues. Since Roxy & I were grouped together as bad in the beginning of the game by some people, I am not as sure of the case on her as some. But that whole thing was way strange.

I thought that was weird too, like there was something I should be "getting" that it seemed others were... but I wasn't getting it.

It feels like every lynch has been a mad dash to lynch someone other than the front runner in the last few minutes. Every lynch has felt weird to me in this game.