Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/
Multiple teams or SK, I'd say.Golden wrote:
Also, I note that zebra's death makes it very likely there are multiple baddie teams. Not quite confirmed, given role secrets, but probable.
@Mac - rico already answered which ones he was genuine about. He didn't say zebra thenI'm on to you rico
Boomslang also.Golden wrote:I still think HBoys attitude towards Rico deserves a bit of scrutiny today.
Rico's behaviour was notably bizarre, and now we know it was completely intentional. I'm not sure how HB got to the point of it 'not being so bad'... and I wonder if he was trying to get some cred for rico not coming back bad.
Also, I note that zebra's death makes it very likely there are multiple baddie teams. Not quite confirmed, given role secrets, but probable.
@Mac - rico already answered which ones he was genuine about. He didn't say zebra then
If SK, I think we'd have seen two deaths in the original post. I don't think DF's death was the mafia kill. I mean, I guess the mafia kill could also have been blocked. There are explanations. But Occam's Razor, for now...Ricochet wrote:Multiple teams or SK, I'd say.Golden wrote:
Also, I note that zebra's death makes it very likely there are multiple baddie teams. Not quite confirmed, given role secrets, but probable.
@Mac - rico already answered which ones he was genuine about. He didn't say zebra then
I should have kept zebra in the mix for god-like magician cred right now.
JaggedJimmyJayJaggedJimmyJay wrote:No wonder Zebra was having the most fun observing my emoji frustration. :P
Should be some great opportunities for finding her team mates. She was highly vocal.
If SK, maybe something happened to the mafia kill. BTW, who can the "paper airplane fella" be - or is it flavor?Golden wrote:If SK, I think we'd have seen two deaths in the original post. I don't think DF's death was the mafia kill. I mean, I guess the mafia kill could also have been blocked. There are explanations. But Occam's Razor, for now...Ricochet wrote:Multiple teams or SK, I'd say.Golden wrote:
Also, I note that zebra's death makes it very likely there are multiple baddie teams. Not quite confirmed, given role secrets, but probable.
@Mac - rico already answered which ones he was genuine about. He didn't say zebra then
I should have kept zebra in the mix for god-like magician cred right now.
I don't see it as bad at all. Ricochet got Zebra, confirmed scum, to generate a ton of posts to sift through. This is why I appreciate all content and arguments, even if I disagree with them.Golden wrote:I still think HBoys attitude towards Rico deserves a bit of scrutiny today.
Rico's behaviour was notably bizarre, and now we know it was completely intentional. I'm not sure how HB got to the point of it 'not being so bad'... and I wonder if he was trying to get some cred for rico not coming back bad.
Are you asking about thoughts from me or others thoughts on me?Ricochet wrote:why didn't zebra emojify me? nub nub nub nub nub nub
Sorsha is pretty present right now. Thoughts?
@juliets: I did. Now where does that leave you?
I'm still in superfluous mode and I'm about to go out and guzzle some margaritas right now. If I don't pass out perhaps I'll be back for some drunk posting later. 
note to MP: we need a margarita guzzling emoji
This is believable. I wouldn't put a vote there without other evidence, but it is something that I can see as possible, especially given it gives 'apathetic' Jimmy the ability to post less without really taking any heat for it.HamburgerBoy wrote:The conspiracy side of me also makes me want to put Jimmy into the longer-wavelength side of the color spectrum. If you're going to curse a teammate to make them look like a victim, it makes sense to do it early, and that Jimmy was able to give his own conspiracy candidate to blame gave it additional power. I don't really buy that llama was so threatened as to silence Jimmy.
I think so, and that he did actually put him on the townier side for me day 1. Not because he seemingly gave me a good read, buddying makes me paranoid, but Jimmy is usually a big advocate of generating lots of content and testing the waters day 1. Had he indicated somehow that he thought Ricochet was scum, or that I was scum for defending him, I would read that as not the town Jimmy I know.Golden wrote:This is believable. I wouldn't put a vote there without other evidence, but it is something that I can see as possible, especially given it gives 'apathetic' Jimmy the ability to post less without really taking any heat for it.HamburgerBoy wrote:The conspiracy side of me also makes me want to put Jimmy into the longer-wavelength side of the color spectrum. If you're going to curse a teammate to make them look like a victim, it makes sense to do it early, and that Jimmy was able to give his own conspiracy candidate to blame gave it additional power. I don't really buy that llama was so threatened as to silence Jimmy.
Btw - do you understand why Jimmy is calling you superman?
Now I feel bad for voting you.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:AAAAAHHHHH WHOOOOO DEEEEEEEEEY
This is an unusual defense. It doesn't feel authentic.HamburgerBoy wrote:I don't see it as bad at all. Ricochet got Zebra, confirmed scum, to generate a ton of posts to sift through. This is why I appreciate all content and arguments, even if I disagree with them.Golden wrote:I still think HBoys attitude towards Rico deserves a bit of scrutiny today.
Rico's behaviour was notably bizarre, and now we know it was completely intentional. I'm not sure how HB got to the point of it 'not being so bad'... and I wonder if he was trying to get some cred for rico not coming back bad.
That's because it conflates zebra being a confirmed scum with the idea that it relates to the 'content' created by rico, even though that content is void of meaning and has nothing to do with why zebra died.MacDougall wrote:This is an unusual defense. It doesn't feel authentic.HamburgerBoy wrote:I don't see it as bad at all. Ricochet got Zebra, confirmed scum, to generate a ton of posts to sift through. This is why I appreciate all content and arguments, even if I disagree with them.Golden wrote:I still think HBoys attitude towards Rico deserves a bit of scrutiny today.
Rico's behaviour was notably bizarre, and now we know it was completely intentional. I'm not sure how HB got to the point of it 'not being so bad'... and I wonder if he was trying to get some cred for rico not coming back bad.
I post when I have time to post. "These deaths?" Do you just mean DF? Or are you accusing me of killing zebra the baddie?Ricochet wrote:Thoughts on you posting a lot around the time of these deaths, actually.
How do you expect me to defend against the accusation that I sided with Rico because I was scum and "knew" he was town? Especially since now there's apparently a Recruitment mafia thing going on which would hint multiple teams for me. Do you disagree with my point, and if so why? What is inauthentic about it? Zebra would probably have half the posts she ended up having were it not for Rico's "bad"/"no-possible-civ-mindset" posting.MacDougall wrote:This is an unusual defense. It doesn't feel authentic.HamburgerBoy wrote:I don't see it as bad at all. Ricochet got Zebra, confirmed scum, to generate a ton of posts to sift through. This is why I appreciate all content and arguments, even if I disagree with them.Golden wrote:I still think HBoys attitude towards Rico deserves a bit of scrutiny today.
Rico's behaviour was notably bizarre, and now we know it was completely intentional. I'm not sure how HB got to the point of it 'not being so bad'... and I wonder if he was trying to get some cred for rico not coming back bad.
Yeah, I definitely disagree that the content had no meaning. What if the argument between Zebra and Rico is part of what caused Zebra to be nightkilled, for example?Golden wrote:That's because it conflates zebra being a confirmed scum with the idea that it relates to the 'content' created by rico, even though that content is void of meaning and has nothing to do with why zebra died.
I haven't made any such official accusations. I asked others for input. I don't remember you being this active before.Sorsha wrote:I post when I have time to post. "These deaths?" Do you just mean DF? Or are you accusing me of killing zebra the baddie?Ricochet wrote:Thoughts on you posting a lot around the time of these deaths, actually.
Placeholding is frowned upon and what goddamn results do you have to view within an hour of D2 commencing?HamburgerBoy wrote:Placing a preliminary vote on JaggedJimmyJay for my conspiracy idea before, and because I don't like hitting 'View results' all the time.
I'm not rebutting I'm just trying to make sure I know what you're getting atRicochet wrote:I haven't made any such official accusations. I asked others for input. I don't remember you being this active before.Sorsha wrote:I post when I have time to post. "These deaths?" Do you just mean DF? Or are you accusing me of killing zebra the baddie?Ricochet wrote:Thoughts on you posting a lot around the time of these deaths, actually.
And yes, "these deaths". Two players died. Zebra "the baddie"'s death leaves plenty room for speculation about a second mafia team or third party killers.
What are you rebutting against me for, anyway? I'm dead.
On what basis would it be what caused him to be nightkilled? It had NO MEANING. It literally was utterly pointless. What thing in there could have been the thing that got zebra killed? Unless people were just annoyed with the noise, and if so this still doesn't give the content meaning.HamburgerBoy wrote:Yeah, I definitely disagree that the content had no meaning. What if the argument between Zebra and Rico is part of what caused Zebra to be nightkilled, for example?Golden wrote:That's because it conflates zebra being a confirmed scum with the idea that it relates to the 'content' created by rico, even though that content is void of meaning and has nothing to do with why zebra died.
Do you know why Zebra died btw?
Adding onto this point, I'll say that if there are multiple teams and if the teams know there are multiple teams (they'd have to right? based on team size), that should invigorate them to push that Ricochet bandwagon, being that they legitimately viewed his posts as suspicious and wanted those sweet townie points before people knew with certainty that there were multiple teams.HamburgerBoy wrote:Especially since now there's apparently a Recruitment mafia thing going on which would hint multiple teams for me.
Ricochet wrote:Placeholding is frowned upon and what goddamn results do you have to view within an hour of D2 commencing?
Well, you see, the thing about multiple teams is that if you are bad, this cuts both ways.HamburgerBoy wrote:Adding onto this point, I'll say that if there are multiple teams and if the teams know there are multiple teams (they'd have to right? based on team size), that should invigorate them to push that Ricochet bandwagon, being that they legitimately viewed his posts as suspicious and wanted those sweet townie points before people knew with certainty that there were multiple teams.HamburgerBoy wrote:Especially since now there's apparently a Recruitment mafia thing going on which would hint multiple teams for me.
Cool. Now reply to my earlier post. Argue with me.MacDougall wrote:Voting for HamburgerBoy
I don't know why you are placing so much significance into Ricochet's intent when the thing that should matter is that Zebra posted a lot and Zebra is now dead. I'd argue at the very least that Zebra felt threatened, especially before the anti-Ricochet sentiment began to build. Maybe some of the content won't be useful after all, but I'm sure as hell not dismissing it just because it wasn't intended to be.Golden wrote:On what basis would it be what caused him to be nightkilled? It had NO MEANING. It literally was utterly pointless. What thing in there could have been the thing that got zebra killed? Unless people were just annoyed with the noise, and if so this still doesn't give the content meaning.
I don't know why zebra died, although I do have a theory that it was because he described himself as unkillable.
I don't believe as scum you knew he was town. I also didn't scum read him. That isn't why you are reading mafia. You are reading mafia because you went out of your way to invent the concept that he was actually trying and that he posts were of value, when they were not. Arguing that he provoked Zebra into posts as a defense is revisionist and strawman.HamburgerBoy wrote:How do you expect me to defend against the accusation that I sided with Rico because I was scum and "knew" he was town? Especially since now there's apparently a Recruitment mafia thing going on which would hint multiple teams for me. Do you disagree with my point, and if so why? What is inauthentic about it? Zebra would probably have half the posts she ended up having were it not for Rico's "bad"/"no-possible-civ-mindset" posting.MacDougall wrote:This is an unusual defense. It doesn't feel authentic.HamburgerBoy wrote:I don't see it as bad at all. Ricochet got Zebra, confirmed scum, to generate a ton of posts to sift through. This is why I appreciate all content and arguments, even if I disagree with them.Golden wrote:I still think HBoys attitude towards Rico deserves a bit of scrutiny today.
Rico's behaviour was notably bizarre, and now we know it was completely intentional. I'm not sure how HB got to the point of it 'not being so bad'... and I wonder if he was trying to get some cred for rico not coming back bad.
Sure, not saying that I'm going to just start voting for everyone that voted for Ricochet yesterday, just that it's an angle worth looking at. For me, that's especially the case with the quieter/less argumentative, similar to how on A World Reborn, two of three anti-town players had jumped onto the sig wagon one after the other.Golden wrote:Well, you see, the thing about multiple teams is that if you are bad, this cuts both ways.
You can say 'maybe they jumped on the bandwagon to get townie points thinking he was clearly on the other baddie team'
And I can say 'a baddie can defend him believing he was probably not bad to get townie points'.
Ultimately it isn't about the choice of tactic, it's about how genuine it seems.
It's not revisionist, it's exactly what I said yesterday.MacDougall wrote:I don't believe as scum you knew he was town. I also didn't scum read him. That isn't why you are reading mafia. You are reading mafia because you went out of your way to invent the concept that he was actually trying and that he posts were of value, when they were not. Arguing that he provoked Zebra into posts as a defense is revisionist and strawman.
HamburgerBoy wrote:Didn't RYM only pick up the RVS concept after Jimmy and Sloonei made their first pilgrimage to the Syndicate? So why can't Rico's case about you and bcornett24 being scumbuddies because of timing be a case of a silly little day 1 (correction, day 0) theory rather than deliberate evil? Dumb cases at least usually generate content, which is better than just lurking or bandwagoning.
I found his self-voting odd, and I said so. I didn't find his arguments odd, because I didn't have a good reference for what a typical Ricochet argument would look like. I should remind you that Ricochet was arguing with two RYMers, both of which have a history of big arguments that people tend to gloss over, and that my initial post interpreted that as Rico being caught up in their antics.Golden wrote:So, I find you suspicious because you didn't find rico's behaviour odd... yesterday... before rico died.
And even though it is now clear that Rico's behaviour was intentionally odd, you still don't find it bad...
Because what should matter is that zebra is dead?
Zebra's death has nothing to do with your defending of rico.
sig wrote:I don't see the Lorab wagon at all I'd suggest the people on it switch to llama
sig wrote:I think a few mafia members were on the Rico wagon, however I also think there is a good chance that either LoRab or Llama are scum.
sig wrote:Why?a2thezebra wrote:I find both the LoRab AND the llama wagons fishy as fuck.
You just said that you thought there was a good chance LoRab (or llama) was scum though. Why do you think that?sig wrote:hello HB how are you doing?
I'm keeping my eye open however, I don't see the reason why everyone thinks Lo Rab is scummy. I will admit I was skimming those areas so I might've missed something, but from what I read she looked null.
What do we think of Elo being replaced? Is she more likely to replace out as mafia or is it unrelated to meta?
Why did you call me Superman earlier to begin with?JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Burger is no longer Superman. The notion that I am on Zebra's team is beyond tinfoil. It's crackpot.
I appreciated that you seemed willing to explore Rico's behavior more deeply/impartially than anyone else was. I wasn't convinced his behavior had to be non-town, and I was [in emojis] voicing to Golden that I felt an explanation might exist. His behavior reminded me a lot of a particular portion of Talking Heads in which I "went bonkers", causing Golden to turn on me hard because he didn't think there was a town motive for it, for the sole purpose of getting the thread into a frenzy. Whether the content Rico produced was valid or useful or even sincere was less important to me than the fact that a huge thread was generated on the strength of it -- something I think is mostly pro-town (perhaps in a game less occupied by people with time constraints like The Syndicate's games often are).HamburgerBoy wrote:Why did you call me Superman earlier to begin with?
Part of it involves his treatment of RadicalFuzz; he was one of the first to throw suspicion that way (in a fairly joking way admittedly) and then later went the other way, looking at people who had suspected Fuzz. Then he singled out DFaraday for being anti-Fuzz, which I saw as the easy-button target, and of course DFaraday has now flipped town regardless. I also thought his treatment of Rico was silly, especially now in retrospect, being more critical of rainbow lists than anything else, but later referring to Rico's posts as a non-civ gimmick, which doesn't really jive with his initial criticism. Also, that golden apparently even did Rico's exact joke (including Dharma in all layers of the rainbow) and Dharma apparently not remembering that further looks like acting/falling back to a jovial meta.juliets wrote:Hamburger Boy can you talk a little bit about your suspicion of DH? DH, do you know why you are orange on Ham Boy's scale? I probably just missed the basis of a suspicion.
Partly since I suspected Llama already, but also since the size of the rico wagon. Not to mention Zebra refused to switch from Rico to llama, after her flip I think this looks bad for Llama. She didn't say she thought he was clean, just that she wasn't going to vote for him while Rico was alive. The amount of people unwilling to switch off of Rico or consider one of the other two wagons is suspicious and makes me think on of the other two was a scum.HamburgerBoy wrote:You just said that you thought there was a good chance LoRab (or llama) was scum though. Why do you think that?sig wrote:hello HB how are you doing?
I'm keeping my eye open however, I don't see the reason why everyone thinks Lo Rab is scummy. I will admit I was skimming those areas so I might've missed something, but from what I read she looked null.
What do we think of Elo being replaced? Is she more likely to replace out as mafia or is it unrelated to meta?
Why did you call me Superman earlier to begin with?JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Burger is no longer Superman. The notion that I am on Zebra's team is beyond tinfoil. It's crackpot.
Thank you Ham Boy. DH has been more toward the other end of my scale but that's mostly based on vibes. I will consider what you said here as I continue to look at him (and everyone else).HamburgerBoy wrote:Part of it involves his treatment of RadicalFuzz; he was one of the first to throw suspicion that way (in a fairly joking way admittedly) and then later went the other way, looking at people who had suspected Fuzz. Then he singled out DFaraday for being anti-Fuzz, which I saw as the easy-button target, and of course DFaraday has now flipped town regardless. I also thought his treatment of Rico was silly, especially now in retrospect, being more critical of rainbow lists than anything else, but later referring to Rico's posts as a non-civ gimmick, which doesn't really jive with his initial criticism. Also, that golden apparently even did Rico's exact joke (including Dharma in all layers of the rainbow) and Dharma apparently not remembering that further looks like acting/falling back to a jovial meta.juliets wrote:Hamburger Boy can you talk a little bit about your suspicion of DH? DH, do you know why you are orange on Ham Boy's scale? I probably just missed the basis of a suspicion.
Dey da ones kicking your asses. With a literal kicker.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:AAAAAHHHHH WHOOOOO DEEEEEEEEEY
This is the most suspect and nervous looking interaction with Zebra. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zebra just threw juliets in her scum list as her requisite wifom scum teammate and this interaction is them softly trying to flesh it out without it going down a path serious enough for juliets to get any serious attention on her.juliets wrote:I understand what you are saying here. At the beginning of games regardless of my affiliation I am not very confident about lynching people. Some people are comfortable with that ambiguity but I am not. Therefore I come off as always following. As the game goes on I become more confident and i think you will see a change in my demeanor (if I make it that far). I will do my best to expose myself more earlier in the game than normal for me regardless of the consequences. Usually that comes out in the form of questions, one of which I've already asked and it hasn't been answered. My questions tell you where I am suspicious.a2thezebra wrote:I'm the least confident about my baddie read of you, but you have made some posts that have stood out to me as waffly in a careful-baddie sort of way. I can't remember who said it but someone said that your posts were just mimicking others' observations and opinions, and that's not my issue because like you said yourself, it isn't alignment-indicative. However, I do think some of your suspicions are "safe" for lack of a better word. You've given me a sense that you're aiming to follow what trains are going to be the most prominent by the end of the day. In other words, following the pack while making it look like you're borderline leading it.juliets wrote:Zebra, I would also like to know why I am on your list if you have time right now to tell me. If not now, later would be fine.
I'm still waiting to hear (see) from Lorab before i vote but i'm getting uneasy about the time squeeze.
Thanks for your answer to my question.
hey shut the fuck upEpignosis wrote:Dey da ones kicking your asses. With a literal kicker.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:AAAAAHHHHH WHOOOOO DEEEEEEEEEY
I'll pass the word along.Ricochet wrote:Also, I want to formally apologise to Eloh for most likely driving her away.
Can you please explain this post?Metalmarsh89 wrote:Zebra is confirmed town though.Ricochet wrote:You voted zebra and I followed. That was the only vote ever placed on a confirmed baddie during this phase. I'm sorry if that's the best I could do.Metalmarsh89 wrote:You know what, I think Rico wants to be lynched.
I don't think we should give that to him. Discuss.
Put yourself in my shoes (wash your feet first, tho) and tell me what I should do right now. Vote properly and achieve a 1 vote on a confirmed baddie. Much achievement. You're a notorious self-voter. And known to like apples. Discuss.
