Mafia Championship Scrimmage [END]

#1801

Okay, sorry! Sorry sorry sorry. This is game relevant, but I'll put it in OT anyways; I was super tired and fell asleep Saturday night while I was catching up, hence why I just randomly disappeared abruptly, and I fully intended to be here yesterday, but some things came up unexpectedly unexpectedly after I started catching up in the morning, and I ended up being tied up all day and didn't get a chance to check the site until after EoD. But I'm here now, so hopefully I'll be fine.

I caught up with the rest of the day last night post-EoD but I'm not gonna go back and relook over then at the moment because I went to bed with a headache and woke up with a bloody nose, so I'm just not feeling like it haha, so again, if anybody has any specific points or quotes they want my thoughts on, quote 'em forward!

Current thoughts I have from memory: I don't like Frog's insistence on knowing my meta. Haha yes, this is another meta comment, but seriously, I don't step up as a leader when I'm a goodie on any other site other than MU because MU is so different than sites that I usually play on. Case on point is this MM game that I played that just finished this week:

http://mafiamaniac.net/index.php?showtopic=4037

I don't have that big of a thread presence except where it's necessary to avoid being wrongfully suspected and lunched for it, I.e. in any MU game. So I feel like, while I understand why he mentioned it because that's the only experience he has with me, it's unfair to hold me to my MU meta when I only use that meta on MU because MU is vastly sifferent than what we play here or at MM. And repeating it so often led to other people getting into the mindset that that's how I play, and without being anle to be here to correct him, I'm just kinda invariably damaged goods coming into D2 haha, because that's the perception of me now.

I understand, along those lines, why the IAWY wagon formed, but I do not like how it formed, and how it stayed. A CFD three hours before EoD on an MIA player just seems like going for low-hanging fruit, which is the strategy that Frog advocated for and it got him lynched, in the biggest of ironies haha. So that's pretty dumb haha.

Has anyone noticed that in MP's ISO reads, he's just reading posts null after null after null? I don't understand how he's getting town and Mafia leans when he's not reading all the posts he quoting either way. I understand why he'd scumread me for cultural differences - which he expressed that he knew from pregame stuff is my personality anyways - but it seems like he's being a little heavy-handed in keeping the read. I do think he's on the right side of the numbers, but if he keeps on me like that, he's gonna drop spots fast.

I didn't like how Soneji entered the thread guns-blazing with an aggressive attitude, I also didn't like how he didn't address my RVS vote at all but used it offhand as a reason to scum read me. I would lean him baddie for that.

I don't understand the backlash on Zebra and the wagon that formed on him for self-voting, that was kinda weird, and then IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going from memory) all his voters went from him, to MP, to me.

That's what I got at the moment, quote forward relevant issues or points that were directed at me since I know where we're quite a few of them, and I'll do my best to answer them.

#1802

Inawordyes used the word unexpectedly twice in a row.

#1803

Okay, game references for my meta purposes, I'll go multi-factional across my history to get a broad spectrum of possibilities. I won't give away factions so you can see how week you read me.

The one I linked to above is Slick's Kitchen Mafia 4.

Spoiler: show

Since that's a lot to read through haha, I suggest my two MVP games (Furball II and TCIAW II), Farmer's Mafia, at least Frozen Mafia 1, Final Fantasy Battle 2, Pacific Rim, and Slick's Kitchen Mafia 4 from my first post. That should give you a good spread of timelines and factions, should you wish to do the reading. This is how I normally play, it's not my adapted MU style, so it's more reflective of how I play in general anywhere else and I
How I'll be here.

#1804

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Inawordyes used the word unexpectedly twice in a row.

No need to be pedantic.

I didn't realize I did that, sorry!

#1805

ika wrote:
Marco wrote:
But why did you immediately assume this was a 1-shot mafia vigilante?
hes scum, help me lynch him

Do you mean me? I think I already explained this. Process of elimination wise it is much more likely that it's a mafia role, plus when I first started speculating I didn't notice C, I only saw the even night vig. Though even with a regular vig the chances of it being a vig shot on Epi/Silver is very small. I don't think anyone playing would've killed Silver or Epi. Considering he had just subbed in, there were many other players who looked more mafiaish and he is a strong town player. This means nobody from TS would've killed him and I doubt most the other new players would kill someone who had just subbed in.

#1806

Inawordyes wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Inawordyes used the word unexpectedly twice in a row.
No need to be pedantic. I didn't realize I did that, sorry!

Is that your only response to my post, though? IIRC you were one of the people who was most on my case for being inactive, which kinda makes me suspicious that you're not more into calling out points I made.

#1807

Inawordyes wrote:
Inawordyes wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Inawordyes used the word unexpectedly twice in a row.
No need to be pedantic. I didn't realize I did that, sorry!
Is that your only response to my post, though? IIRC you were one of the people who was most on my case for being inactive, which kinda makes me suspicious that you're not more into calling out points I made.

No, I was on my phone at that moment, and that was the first thing I noticed. :P

I'm on my laptop now, so I can read further than the OT intro.

#1808

I do want to comment on the use of MM for MafiaManiac, in that I am often referred to as MM by nickname.

I don't mind the additional acronym. I just know that if you are searching the thread for mentions of me, and plan to use "MM" in your search, you'll get many more hits than you'll expect.

#1809

sig wrote:
ika wrote:
Marco wrote:
But why did you immediately assume this was a 1-shot mafia vigilante?
hes scum, help me lynch him
Do you mean me? I think I already explained this. Process of elimination wise it is much more likely that it's a mafia role, plus when I first started speculating I didn't notice C, I only saw the even night vig. Though even with a regular vig the chances of it being a vig shot on Epi/Silver is very small. I don't think anyone playing would've killed Silver or Epi. Considering he had just subbed in, there were many other players who looked more mafiaish and he is a strong town player. This means nobody from TS would've killed him and I doubt most the other new players would kill someone who had just subbed in.

I disagree. I think the only reason Epignosis would be killed by mafia on Day 1 is because the mafia do know how strong of a player Epignosis is, and want to off him early.

#1810

Never mind sig, I think I misunderstood you. I didn't realize the last two lines were referring to a civ vigilante killing Epignosis.

I do agree with that observation.

#1811

VOTE INAWORDYES

That's just a starting point before catching up.

#1812

Inawordyes wrote:Has anyone noticed that in MP's ISO reads, he's just reading posts null after null after null? I don't understand how he's getting town and Mafia leans when he's not reading all the posts he quoting either way. I understand why he'd scumread me for cultural differences - which he expressed that he knew from pregame stuff is my personality anyways - but it seems like he's being a little heavy-handed in keeping the read. I do think he's on the right side of the numbers, but if he keeps on me like that, he's gonna drop spots fast.

Ugh. This means going back and reread MP's ISOs. But this point you raise might make it worth it.

Inawordyes wrote:I didn't like how Soneji entered the thread guns-blazing with an aggressive attitude, I also didn't like how he didn't address my RVS vote at all but used it offhand as a reason to scum read me. I would lean him baddie for that.

I don't understand the backlash on Zebra and the wagon that formed on him for self-voting, that was kinda weird, and then IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going from memory) all his voters went from him, to MP, to me.

That's what I got at the moment, quote forward relevant issues or points that were directed at me since I know where we're quite a few of them, and I'll do my best to answer them.

This would be another good thing to look into for the verification. But at least it would be less tedious than the above task. :P

#1813

VOTE IKA

I wouldn't mind seeing your case on MP.

#1814

MovingPictures07 wrote:RIP Frog, Silverwolf, and Epignosis.

I presume this means we're playing with a 1-Shot Mafia Vigilante.

Civilian vigilante and Mafia jack-of-all-trades seem like the other possible options to me (although this may have already been pointed out). We have ruled out tracks 2, 6, and B... not as helpful as it could have been.

#1815

MovingPictures07 wrote:Who would have incentive to kill Silverwolf? Epignosis? Regarding Silver, my first guess is ika.

I'm not so sure about ika. I think, especially after silver has taken a couple of early nks recently, ika is likely to ask people not to kill her even if he felt like it would be a risk to him. Silverwolf's death makes me feel pretty ok about ika.

#1816

sig wrote:We can remove C, B, 2, and 6.

Can't be a vig kill, vig is on even night only I think.

C is interesting. C4 says 'Town vigiliante' but F1 says 'town even night vigilante' so I assumed they were different, but I can't see any clarification in the role descriptions.

#1817

sig wrote:Oh please lets not have another phase of Ika vs MP vs Golden vs ?

Oooh, who will the question mark be? Tune in next week!

#1818

sig wrote:Ugh that Silver vs Golden vs MP vs Frog got annoying to read after awhile. :P

I'm leaning towards a Psittacitform or Zebra lynch today. I'll go over both of them tomorrow.
Zebra is playing different? Her filler posts to prove a point seemed really unlike her.
Psitt did something that pinged me which I can't recall atm.

Do you remember what pinged you about Psi?

sig wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:Sig ISO and thoughts:

First @Sig:

-Why is my argument with Golden TvT to you, can you elaborate on this please?

-You said you don't think zexy is mafia. Elaborate please?

-Why do you not think sloonei is mafia but are null reading him after your interaction with him?

-What was townie about In a words entrance to the thread?

I notice sig makes a lot of comments like this without much explanation so I'm gonna wait for his answers to these questions before I give a read here.
Okay so I'm civ reading both you and Golden. I think your both trying to scum hunt and be genuine. However, your attempting this in different ways and butting heads. I notice this happens alot among the town "alphas" That is what is happening with you two. It looks like you've resolved your disagreement which is good since as I said I think it was TvT. I think it is more likely for scum to be laying low right now.

So you had a civ read on Silver here, yet you're willing to change up your opinion on her later based solely on one comment regarding allowing me to catch up? Your reasoning for doing so, that Silver wasn't willing to do so for IAWY, who unlike me wasn't around is weak. She had actually been pinged by IAWY's posts as she had explained earlier, if she hadn't been pinged by my two posts then she has every reason to give me time to catch up over IAWY. Part of your reasoning for trying to create a CFD on me is that I hadn't posted again after my first two posts, as if I was avoiding posting rather than continuing my read through.

Were you that confident that I am scum, IAWY is town?

sig wrote:Golden
MM
Psittacitform
Soneji
Sloonie

I'm not voting for Golden or Soneji today. If someone gives me a case on Sloonie and it is good I'd consider it, but won't build it myself. I could swing for MM, but again haven't seen a case on him. Psittacitform is the one I'd be most willing to vote for out of this group atm. However, I'm hesitant since he only has two posts. Though we've had 60 hours to make posts and him only making two is a little odd.

The other angle is Frog, could he be mafia trying to push us onto lurkers? Maybe, but I'm not confident in that.

I do really dislike Silver's read on Zebra/MP. I doubt MP is mafia and at the moment I'm thinking Zebra isn't either. However, if I have to pick between Zebra and MP I'd go for Zebra.

@Zebra who would you like to lynch?

linki: Zebra so your saying I should lynhc you since you're mafia attempting a gambit.
:P

I'm somewhat confused as to how that group of 5 was made as seemingly your main lynch choices. Why put Golden in there at all if you're not voting him, why would you claim you would not vote me without seeing what I might post(when I did, you immediately jumped on it for vague reasons)?

Sloonei wrote:Somebody tell me who I should vote for. I am not going to be able to read this thread tonight. Or tomorrow. Or the next day. I probably should have stayed on the sidelines.

This post was just bait going by how he responded to Ika's reply to it. What I find to be a bit scummy is that if this was truly bait, why reel in such low hanging fruit as Ika, whose adamant about not having actual reasons for his suspicions, just gut? You're not going to get good results from going for him.

ika wrote:ok so i jsut read up and i want to say one thing:

in boht turf and hest i was ina constant stuggle on being lynch vs not being lycnhed.

turf i barly got by the first 3 days, on day 3 i only got away due to vote loans. 4-5 i got away due to me bussing fuzzy in CFD

hesit i was the competing wagon on all of day 2 and most of 3.

i am very much an easy myslycnh based on my own playstyle

Such raw honesty Ika. I was a bit iffy about that post by MP as I did remember you almost got lynched day 2 in Turf Wars and mainly sailed by the next few days based on people thinking it unlikely that you'd use the loan votes on your own scummate. You were actually mafia though, so I couldn't exactly categorize it as a mislynch. Wasn't in Heist so couldn't judge that in the moment but if what you say is true, then MP appears to have tried to spin the narrative a bit.

Spoiler: show

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Well by golly, you all better at least lynch Sloonei before you lynch me.

Any particular reason the order matters to you, since you appear to not care that your lynch will follow in this scenario? Considering you think him mafia, would you not say your push on him would then warrant some towncred if he flips the way you think he will?

a2thezebra wrote:I'm town and I'd like to keep playing, but keeping MP alive takes the top priority right now.

VOTE A2THEZEBRA

This seems overly dramatic, as I'm rather sure there wasn't all that many votes on MP and quite awhile left in the phase.

a2thezebra wrote:I get some of the new people being suspicious of me, but sig and Golden? You two should know better.

Never been one to have this type of reasoning sit well with me.

#1819

MovingPictures07 wrote:
sig wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
sig wrote:RIP Epi/Silver

Hope to see you play again here Frog.

I'll do some NKA later after school. However, off the top of my head I think these results point to a mafia team with members inexperienced with this set up. We have eight potential set ups right now, out of 12. We can remove C, B, 2, and 6.

Can't be a vig kill, vig is on even night only I think.
How do you figure?
Using your extra night kill so early results in at least three world set ups being gone, that can hurt the mafia more since it narrow things down and helps the civs to figure out what world we are in. So it will hurt the mafia will claiming civ roles later in the game and make civ claims seem more real.
That's a good point.

I don't know that it is. Mafia would have realised that at this point it eliminates only three possible options. It doesn't do them much harm. Much worse would be having a one-shot mafia vig lynched or killed before they use it at all. I would agree with sig if it was more likely to expose the set up, but in this case I don't think it really does.

#1820

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
sig wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
sig wrote:RIP Epi/Silver

Hope to see you play again here Frog.

I'll do some NKA later after school. However, off the top of my head I think these results point to a mafia team with members inexperienced with this set up. We have eight potential set ups right now, out of 12. We can remove C, B, 2, and 6.

Can't be a vig kill, vig is on even night only I think.
How do you figure?
Using your extra night kill so early results in at least three world set ups being gone, that can hurt the mafia more since it narrow things down and helps the civs to figure out what world we are in. So it will hurt the mafia will claiming civ roles later in the game and make civ claims seem more real.
VOTE SIG

As I've already pointed out, there could be a civ vig and no mafia vig. This conclusion was reached on the belief that mafia made both kills last night.

Doesn't it seem more likely that mafia would recognise the civ vig possibility and minimise the certainty it was a mafia vig kill?

#1821

An ISO of MP's ISOs This is ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as MP having over 300 posts on Day 1. For the numbers included next to each name, the first one is the number of null posts read, while the second number is the total number of posts observed.

Psittaciform - (2/2) All null post reads, but gives a slight mafia read.

Metalmarsh89 - (6/6) All null post reads, but initially gives a slight mafia read before considering to push it to moderate mafia read.

Long Con - (10/14) 10 null posts, 2 town posts, and 2 scum posts. Ultimately gives Long Con a slight mafia read.

Inawordyes - (10/17) 7 mafia posts (that vary in strength) and the rest null, which result in a moderate mafia read on Inawordyes.

DrWilgy - (15/15) All null posts that result in a null read.

Soneji - (7/9) 7 null post reads and two town post reads, which result in a slight town read.

@Inawordyes: I see what you're saying here. 3 players on this list roughly equate to null reads, but MP gives them slight or moderate mafia reads anyway. He did say in my ISO that he is ignoring null reads. I don't understand that reason for this, especially since he still gave DrWilgy a null read (or more accurately, gave no read). Anyway, if you want to look deeper into the ISOs, the links are here.

#1822

Golden wrote:
sig wrote:We can remove C, B, 2, and 6.

Can't be a vig kill, vig is on even night only I think.
C is interesting. C4 says 'Town vigiliante' but F1 says 'town even night vigilante' so I assumed they were different, but I can't see any clarification in the role descriptions.

Town even night vigilante refers to a vig who can only kill on even nights. So if we have two kills tomorrow we can rule out almost all of the possible worlds, we would still need to keep F since it could've been the mafia JOAT (jack of all trades)
If we are just looking at odds it is more likely that we have a 1 shot mafia vig, but I think it will be obvious soon just from NKs

#1823

Soneji wrote:
sig wrote:Ugh that Silver vs Golden vs MP vs Frog got annoying to read after awhile. :P

I'm leaning towards a Psittacitform or Zebra lynch today. I'll go over both of them tomorrow.
Zebra is playing different? Her filler posts to prove a point seemed really unlike her.
Psitt did something that pinged me which I can't recall atm.
Do you remember what pinged you about Psi?

sig wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:Sig ISO and thoughts:

First @Sig:

-Why is my argument with Golden TvT to you, can you elaborate on this please?

-You said you don't think zexy is mafia. Elaborate please?

-Why do you not think sloonei is mafia but are null reading him after your interaction with him?

-What was townie about In a words entrance to the thread?

I notice sig makes a lot of comments like this without much explanation so I'm gonna wait for his answers to these questions before I give a read here.
Okay so I'm civ reading both you and Golden. I think your both trying to scum hunt and be genuine. However, your attempting this in different ways and butting heads. I notice this happens alot among the town "alphas" That is what is happening with you two. It looks like you've resolved your disagreement which is good since as I said I think it was TvT. I think it is more likely for scum to be laying low right now.
So you had a civ read on Silver here, yet you're willing to change up your opinion on her later based solely on one comment regarding allowing me to catch up? Your reasoning for doing so, that Silver wasn't willing to do so for IAWY, who unlike me wasn't around is weak. She had actually been pinged by IAWY's posts as she had explained earlier, if she hadn't been pinged by my two posts then she has every reason to give me time to catch up over IAWY. Part of your reasoning for trying to create a CFD on me is that I hadn't posted again after my first two posts, as if I was avoiding posting rather than continuing my read through.

Were you that confident that I am scum, IAWY is town?

sig wrote:Golden
MM
Psittacitform
Soneji
Sloonie

I'm not voting for Golden or Soneji today. If someone gives me a case on Sloonie and it is good I'd consider it, but won't build it myself. I could swing for MM, but again haven't seen a case on him. Psittacitform is the one I'd be most willing to vote for out of this group atm. However, I'm hesitant since he only has two posts. Though we've had 60 hours to make posts and him only making two is a little odd.

The other angle is Frog, could he be mafia trying to push us onto lurkers? Maybe, but I'm not confident in that.

I do really dislike Silver's read on Zebra/MP. I doubt MP is mafia and at the moment I'm thinking Zebra isn't either. However, if I have to pick between Zebra and MP I'd go for Zebra.

@Zebra who would you like to lynch?

linki: Zebra so your saying I should lynhc you since you're mafia attempting a gambit.
:P
I'm somewhat confused as to how that group of 5 was made as seemingly your main lynch choices. Why put Golden in there at all if you're not voting him, why would you claim you would not vote me without seeing what I might post(when I did, you immediately jumped on it for vague reasons)?

I was more confident that IAWY was town, plus I dislike all CFDs, though if we were to CFD I'd have wanted to be in control of it since then I'd have known it wasn't scum lead.

I listed every player who had 1 or 2 votes, notice I also said who among them I wouldn't vote for.
After rereading some stuff and hearing what marco thinks of you, I'd rather not lynch you. MM is still my top mafia read, however I'm going to reread the Frog lynch and see. In theory the CFD could've been done to save a teammate or teammates, espacilly if my MM/IAWY theory is right. I highly doubt it is, but if it was then I'd say we have a Golden/MM/IAWY/Ika team.

#1824

Marco wrote:I'd also like to know from Golden when he exactly started scum-reading Frog. He had Frog on his town list for majority of the phase, IIRC, and I remember being confused about his EOD switch to Frog.

Whenever I made the post that I was tinfoiling him as bad. It's in my iso.

I'll be completely honest, though, and say I was probably influenced by his tone more than his content. I felt like he was trying to be a town leader while spouting echanics that could be easily defeated. Culture Clash may account for the aspects I didnt' like about him.

I do feel his style changed over the day. Early on it felt like he was explaining what he was up to clearly, so I could understand what he was putting in the thread. But, the second half of the day was more like 'x is true, you all suck and are not town unless you take my word for it', which was a complete turn around.

#1825

I'm going to operate under the assumption that mafia made two nightkills last night (and one of them was a vig). Here's a couple reasons why they would do what they did.

1) The Mafia Vig was under pressure, and wanted to use their kill for fear of being lynched today and losing it.

2) The Mafia has a JoaT, and he/she might only be able to use one ability per night, thus using one last night. I don't know how this works, so could someone educate me on this? I don't see anything in the OP on this.

3) The Mafia thought that either/or Silverwolf and Epignosis were power roles, and wanted them both out pronto.

4) The Mafia thought that Silverwolf might be a good target for jailkeep/protect/bodyguard. I think this is true. Additionally, every scenario in play has an instance of one of these roles except for one. Thus, they utilized two nightkills last night to guarentee her death. Had she been protected from death, mafia could freely kill her tonight (since the protector person couldn't go back on consecutive nights).

#1826

Inawordyes wrote: I didn't like how Soneji entered the thread guns-blazing with an aggressive attitude, I also didn't like how he didn't address my RVS vote at all but used it offhand as a reason to scum read me. I would lean him baddie for that.

By "didn't like" are you meaning that you think its scummy? If so, in what way is it scummy? I didn't address your RVS vote exactly because that is all it was, a random vote based on nothing so nothing to address in it. When did I use your RVS as an offhand reason to scum read you though? My reasoning was based on you wording your posts in such a manner as to seem as inoffensive as possible, saying "its okay if you think I'm scum for this because you're probably going to misunderstand me" or "this theory that I have is probably wrong so don't mind me". The only time I brought up your RVS vote was in relation to speaking about Silver's reasoning for voting you, in which I offered no opinion either way on if it was valid.

VOTE SIG

The guy was desperate to try and get people to scumread me to start a CFD while giving vague reasoning on why I was actually scummy. Was unwilling to take the first step in voting for me, despite IAWY still having his vote on me from earlier. There was more than enough time in the thread for the lynch to be changed if he showed any spine in following his lead he was so eager about, as seen by how Frog came to match the other wagons(yet part of his reasoning on me is that I "avoided" the IAWY and MM wagons). Yet come today he has not mentioned me a single time, has only really talked about game mechanics in regards to which set-up we're playing with a bit too much confidence in regards to his comments about the mafia teams experience with this set-up.

#1827

The other thing that bothered me about frog was he started posting about how he wouldn't get nked, as though he wanted to create some excuse for why he wasn't. The wifom levels were bothering me.

#1828

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm going to operate under the assumption that mafia made two nightkills last night (and one of them was a vig). Here's a couple reasons why they would do what they did.

1) The Mafia Vig was under pressure, and wanted to use their kill for fear of being lynched today and losing it.

2) The Mafia has a JoaT, and he/she might only be able to use one ability per night, thus using one last night. I don't know how this works, so could someone educate me on this? I don't see anything in the OP on this.

3) The Mafia thought that either/or Silverwolf and Epignosis were power roles, and wanted them both out pronto.

4) The Mafia thought that Silverwolf might be a good target for jailkeep/protect/bodyguard. I think this is true. Additionally, every scenario in play has an instance of one of these roles except for one. Thus, they utilized two nightkills last night to guarentee her death. Had she been protected from death, mafia could freely kill her tonight (since the protector person couldn't go back on consecutive nights).

JOAT can only use one power per night. So if it was a JOAT who killed someone they can't use another kill and couldn't have used their other powers.

Soneji I didn't switch my vote since nobody else seemed to agree, and I said while it was happening I wanted to lynch MM.Why should I have wasted my vote? This seems like No U.

#1829

Soneji wrote:
Inawordyes wrote: I didn't like how Soneji entered the thread guns-blazing with an aggressive attitude, I also didn't like how he didn't address my RVS vote at all but used it offhand as a reason to scum read me. I would lean him baddie for that.
By "didn't like" are you meaning that you think its scummy? If so, in what way is it scummy? I didn't address your RVS vote exactly because that is all it was, a random vote based on nothing so nothing to address in it. When did I use your RVS as an offhand reason to scum read you though? My reasoning was based on you wording your posts in such a manner as to seem as inoffensive as possible, saying "its okay if you think I'm scum for this because you're probably going to misunderstand me" or "this theory that I have is probably wrong so don't mind me". The only time I brought up your RVS vote was in relation to speaking about Silver's reasoning for voting you, in which I offered no opinion either way on if it was valid.

It set off tonal alarm bells, I tend to play with gut reads because they're accurate, and I got pinged by your OP but I'm not entirely sure what it was you said that set me off. I could be wrong, of course, but I usually tend to be very accurate when it comes to tonal stuff and it's when I don't listen to my gut that I end up kicking myself because the people I suspected ended up being Mafia like I highly to begin with

I did ask you questions in that post, you could've addressed those.

I play like that regardless, I don't shy away from what I'm saying, but I do avoid like to avoid conflict, and that's not alignment-indicative.

#1830

Golden wrote:VOTE INAWORDYES

That's just a starting point before catching up.

Fair enough, there's not much to catch up on though because with Frog gone we've reached standard levels of posting haha.

Where are you at in your catching up? If you have caught up, do you intend on keeping this vote, or would it better be served elsewhere after seeing how I've responded?

#1831

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Golden: I didn't like his attitude wert me yesterday. He, like you, was very hesitant to vote for Sloonei, despite acknowledging that Sloonei was a decent candidate for Day 1. Also, responses like this just give me the shivers. An "Oh, of course I meant to do that " instead of an "Aye, good call there, I was wrong".

I wasn't wrong at all, MM. Your case on sloonei was shit, because you hadn't demonstrated any context. I don't have to do your research for you.

#1832

Inawordyes wrote:
Golden wrote:VOTE INAWORDYES

That's just a starting point before catching up.
Fair enough, there's not much to catch up on though because with Frog gone we've reached standard levels of posting haha. Where are you at in your catching up? If you have caught up, do you intend on keeping this vote, or would it better be served elsewhere after seeing how I've responded?

End of day, but I can say already my vote is unlikely to stay there, because I have a hunch I'm working on.

#1833

sig wrote: Soneji I didn't switch my vote since nobody else seemed to agree, and I said while it was happening I wanted to lynch MM.Why should I have wasted my vote? This seems like No U.

How were you to know it would be wasted? Maybe if you had shown more confidence in your read and got the ball rolling with a vote on me, people would have followed. Frog had only one vote when I placed my vote, same as the situation would have been with you. You didn't choose to do that, despite how very eager you were to get people to pay attention to your read on me and start a counterwagon. This lack of spine, jumping on me so quickly with vague reasoning and hypocrisy(not liking CFD's but wanting to get one started on me) is why I'm voting you. If you had had the courage of your conviction, I'd be less inclined to think you're mafia.

#1834

Metalmarsh89 wrote:An ISO of MP's ISOs This is ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as MP having over 300 posts on Day 1. For the numbers included next to each name, the first one is the number of null posts read, while the second number is the total number of posts observed.

Psittaciform - (2/2) All null post reads, but gives a slight mafia read.

Metalmarsh89 - (6/6) All null post reads, but initially gives a slight mafia read before considering to push it to moderate mafia read.

Long Con - (10/14) 10 null posts, 2 town posts, and 2 scum posts. Ultimately gives Long Con a slight mafia read.

Inawordyes - (10/17) 7 mafia posts (that vary in strength) and the rest null, which result in a moderate mafia read on Inawordyes.

DrWilgy - (15/15) All null posts that result in a null read.

Soneji - (7/9) 7 null post reads and two town post reads, which result in a slight town read.

@Inawordyes: I see what you're saying here. 3 players on this list roughly equate to null reads, but MP gives them slight or moderate mafia reads anyway. He did say in my ISO that he is ignoring null reads. I don't understand that reason for this, especially since he still gave DrWilgy a null read (or more accurately, gave no read). Anyway, if you want to look deeper into the ISOs, the links are here.

It's not even necessarily that I disagree with why he read them null, but going over all their posts and in three cases null-reading all their posts at the time of he ISO but then leaning them either way seems kinda counter-intuitive. I know that he said he was reserving straight-null for Soneji at the start because Soneji was the only NK-shower at the time, but with that many nulls you can't really expect to be able to read them either way without having some sort of slight town and scum basis.

It looks like MP is just posting to post and look like he's contributing. It's not inherently scummy because he's done a lot of other stuff that townish, but it's something to keep an eye on.

#1835

Inawordyes wrote:
Soneji wrote:
Inawordyes wrote: I didn't like how Soneji entered the thread guns-blazing with an aggressive attitude, I also didn't like how he didn't address my RVS vote at all but used it offhand as a reason to scum read me. I would lean him baddie for that.
By "didn't like" are you meaning that you think its scummy? If so, in what way is it scummy? I didn't address your RVS vote exactly because that is all it was, a random vote based on nothing so nothing to address in it. When did I use your RVS as an offhand reason to scum read you though? My reasoning was based on you wording your posts in such a manner as to seem as inoffensive as possible, saying "its okay if you think I'm scum for this because you're probably going to misunderstand me" or "this theory that I have is probably wrong so don't mind me". The only time I brought up your RVS vote was in relation to speaking about Silver's reasoning for voting you, in which I offered no opinion either way on if it was valid.
It set off tonal alarm bells, I tend to play with gut reads because they're accurate, and I got pinged by your OP but I'm not entirely sure what it was you said that set me off. I could be wrong, of course, but I usually tend to be very accurate when it comes to tonal stuff and it's when I don't listen to my gut that I end up kicking myself because the people I suspected ended up being Mafia like I highly to begin with

I did ask you questions in that post, you could've addressed those. I play like that regardless, I don't shy away from what I'm saying, but I do avoid like to avoid conflict, and that's not alignment-indicative.

Your questions where how was I doing and who I thought were scum. My opening post answered both by itself and my other posts have only further answered them. The people I think are probable scum are yourself, sig, Sloonei, Psi, maybe MM. As for how I'm doing, rather well. I always feel great when on the hunt.

#1836

Golden wrote:
Marco wrote:I'd also like to know from Golden when he exactly started scum-reading Frog. He had Frog on his town list for majority of the phase, IIRC, and I remember being confused about his EOD switch to Frog.
Whenever I made the post that I was tinfoiling him as bad. It's in my iso.

I'll be completely honest, though, and say I was probably influenced by his tone more than his content. I felt like he was trying to be a town leader while spouting echanics that could be easily defeated. Culture Clash may account for the aspects I didnt' like about him.

I do feel his style changed over the day. Early on it felt like he was explaining what he was up to clearly, so I could understand what he was putting in the thread. But, the second half of the day was more like 'x is true, you all suck and are not town unless you take my word for it', which was a complete turn around.

And you suspected him for that turn around?

#1837

Golden wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Golden: I didn't like his attitude wert me yesterday. He, like you, was very hesitant to vote for Sloonei, despite acknowledging that Sloonei was a decent candidate for Day 1. Also, responses like this just give me the shivers. An "Oh, of course I meant to do that " instead of an "Aye, good call there, I was wrong".
I wasn't wrong at all, MM. Your case on sloonei was shit, because you hadn't demonstrated any context. I don't have to do your research for you.

Bullshit.

If the case was shit, why did you concede that Sloonei was on your list of "players to lynch" as a result of the case?

#1838

IAWY, The wagon on Zebra didn't happen after she self voted, it happened before. And then she self-voted and the votes went elsewhere (many to you). Someone that isn't lazy can do a pretty chart or something.

---

Would like thoughts on this conversation:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Frog wrote:meh, I don't really care tbh. at least one town is voting me. L2P scrubs.

GLGL - hopefully you'll vote marshmellow tomorrow
Even if all the scum was voting for you, there'd still be two civs on you right now. :P
Does MM do fake town slips as scum?
This isn't a townslip regardless of my alignment.
Isn't there 4 scum?
Oh, I thought there were 3.

Please help me tonight.

#1839

I find it bothersome that two out of my three lynch options that I laid out yesterday were NK'd, almost as if the mafia team is making fun of how poorly I read other players. That is, of course, if both of the deaths were their doing. When Frog flipped civilian I was ready to go after Epignosis, but that of course didn't pan out. So my options for today are Metalmarsh89 who I kept going back-and-forth with yesterday, Dyslexicon who I could just be NO U'ing and OMGUSing to an extreme, and a more recent gut baddie read in the form of Golden. I didn't say anything but throughout yesterday I felt like Golden lacked the "hurricane of self-assurance" factor that he's known for as town. There were also a few times when it seemed like his reads developed unnaturally (me being one of them) as if he was trying to decide whether or not it would look natural to change his mind about something or someone rather than it genuinely happen. I also find his Frog vote lackluster, but the same could be applied to most of the Frog votes in my opinion. For now I have no strong mafia reads even out of the three I just mentioned, so I'll have to wait longer in the day before I place a vote.

#1840

I'm on break but anyone who thinks I wouldn't kill silver n1 is being redoicolus.

Ask sonji who I wanted to arrest n1 of turf, he'll ask mp himself and ask who I wanted arrested, ask him
What I was constantly saying in the scum topic

#1841

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Golden wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Golden: I didn't like his attitude wert me yesterday. He, like you, was very hesitant to vote for Sloonei, despite acknowledging that Sloonei was a decent candidate for Day 1. Also, responses like this just give me the shivers. An "Oh, of course I meant to do that " instead of an "Aye, good call there, I was wrong".
I wasn't wrong at all, MM. Your case on sloonei was shit, because you hadn't demonstrated any context. I don't have to do your research for you.
Bullshit.

If the case was shit, why did you concede that Sloonei was on your list of "players to lynch" as a result of the case?

Haha, and this is a good example of what I was talking about when I said that Golden seems to be trying to make his reads look natural and failing.

#1842

ika wrote:I'm on break but anyone who thinks I wouldn't kill silver n1 is being redoicolus.

So you did kill her.

#1843

a2thezebra wrote:
ika wrote:I'm on break but anyone who thinks I wouldn't kill silver n1 is being redoicolus.
So you did kill her.

Tell me he at least did it for the peanut butter cookies.

#1844

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
ika wrote:I'm on break but anyone who thinks I wouldn't kill silver n1 is being redoicolus.
So you did kill her.
Tell me he at least did it for the peanut butter cookies.

mmmmmmmmmmm

Are you bad, MM?

#1845

a2thezebra wrote:
ika wrote:I'm on break but anyone who thinks I wouldn't kill silver n1 is being redoicolus.
So you did kill her.

If I was scum, yes that would be the case.

#1846

ika wrote:I'm on break but anyone who thinks I wouldn't kill silver n1 is being redoicolus.

I was so smugly going to call you out for your contradiction until I realized this said "wouldn't". >_>

#1847

a2thezebra wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Golden wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Golden: I didn't like his attitude wert me yesterday. He, like you, was very hesitant to vote for Sloonei, despite acknowledging that Sloonei was a decent candidate for Day 1. Also, responses like this just give me the shivers. An "Oh, of course I meant to do that " instead of an "Aye, good call there, I was wrong".
I wasn't wrong at all, MM. Your case on sloonei was shit, because you hadn't demonstrated any context. I don't have to do your research for you.
Bullshit.

If the case was shit, why did you concede that Sloonei was on your list of "players to lynch" as a result of the case?
Haha, and this is a good example of what I was talking about when I said that Golden seems to be trying to make his reads look natural and failing.

Do you have any other examples of this? I wouldn't mind seeing them, because I'm getting a similar vibe from Golden.

Linki: Negatron.

#1848

Zebra, let's join forces on Golden, because I love you.

VOTE GOLDEN

#1849

ika wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
ika wrote:I'm on break but anyone who thinks I wouldn't kill silver n1 is being redoicolus.
So you did kill her.
If I was scum, yes that would be the case.

So are you confessing or are you saying that you were framed?

#1850

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Golden wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Golden: I didn't like his attitude wert me yesterday. He, like you, was very hesitant to vote for Sloonei, despite acknowledging that Sloonei was a decent candidate for Day 1. Also, responses like this just give me the shivers. An "Oh, of course I meant to do that " instead of an "Aye, good call there, I was wrong".
I wasn't wrong at all, MM. Your case on sloonei was shit, because you hadn't demonstrated any context. I don't have to do your research for you.
Bullshit.

If the case was shit, why did you concede that Sloonei was on your list of "players to lynch" as a result of the case?
Haha, and this is a good example of what I was talking about when I said that Golden seems to be trying to make his reads look natural and failing.
Do you have any other examples of this? I wouldn't mind seeing them, because I'm getting a similar vibe from Golden.

Linki: Negatron.

Not off the top of my head, but I'll go digging for some.

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

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