The Syndicate

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:04 pm

Spoiler: show

Catch-up time.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:40 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:58 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:56 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:53 pm [VOTE: Sig] aubergine

[this part]If sig's bad, Colin is bad too.[/right here]

explanation?

Colin's post, boiled down

"I have a reason not to vote nova and a reason not to vote epi and... err... there's one specific post about sig that isn't bad and then nothing changed my mind... so I'll vote off wagon"

All while sig is one vote behind.

Sorry it was Colin, not Scotty. Yes very bad look for Colin.

It's a bad look to vote for somebody I'm suspicious of, as opposed to jumping on a wagon I don't believe in (which, by the way, turned out to be a civ)? Golden's paraphrase of my post here is disingenuous and distorts the character of my message.

If sig is bad, Colin is bad. If sig is good ... well, guess Colin is still bad?

I really agree with voting for someone you're suspicious of instead of jumping on a wagon. That was my mentality day one. However, it doesn't do any good if no one shares your suspicions. For that reason I'm reviewing other lynch candidate's posts to see if I have any reason to switch if no one gets on board with my wolbre suspicions. So far you're not pinging my scum radar, so I'll move along.

Y'all are weird when you actually townread me, so there's that also.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:23 am Just realized I never did wish Spacedaisy a happy birthday, so here's one.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY @Spacedaisy!!!!!

"The day after my birthday is not my birthday Marm"

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:03 am LC, it's fine, I apologize too if I've bothered you at all. I may get very aggressive in game but I never mean any offense towards the person I'm dogpeeing on or anyone else. I felt bad about making a whole ordeal out of this, so I wanted to come back here specifically to say that.

I don't mind being bothered, and I rarely take offense. My ideal Mafia game contains people who get livid sometimes, and even people getting pissed off at other people. Some of the best fun comes from that so long as everyone keeps the perspective that we are a family here, and I love all of you, even when I'm thinking "That motherfucker, I swear to Christ I'm going to burn him down to the ground for this!" That's what I want... to be fine. I want that to be cool, I don't want Human Resources getting involved, and I don't want anyone to forget that game emotions are allowed to be separate from real emotions.

One one hand, I appreciate your cool and level-headed post about the situation, and on the other, I'm disappointed because this shit was just getting good.

And given your more recent response, I understand a bit better where you might be coming from now with respect to multiple fronts, so I thought I should respond to those and thereafter just let the exchange settle for a little while. See the following:

1) To set the record straight, I did not intend to strawman anyone, either you or Colin. That's not a purposeful strategy I employ even when I am bad. The strategy I employ when I am bad is to seem as town as possible, not to like manipulate people to see some other player in a more negative or anything like that. That's not something I think I'm very good at. The only thing I think I'm good at when bad is replicating my town behavior, and I don't try to set people up to look bad when town. If I do so, it's unintentional, and I apologize if you feel like I was setting you up to fail or something. I was merely describing the way I interpreted your post (and Colin's), and throwing it back at you in the form of a question exactly how I understand it, because I wanted to get a sense for how you'd engage me going forward so it could help me determine whether I think you're fabricating it or not.

I would feel better if you would acknowledge the legitimacy of my perspective that you strawmanned us both. I hear you when you say it was not your intention, but I wasn't trying to make shit up... I'm pretty sure that what I said was valid.

Fine. FINE! I'll say it. Sorry, just talking to the voice in my head that's saying "The guy you think is bad is telling you how he plays as a baddie... riiiiiight...." Just for full disclosure on my churning thoughts on the matter. The regular brain me, that isn't a voice, but a presence, likes much of your responses and wants to call you Civ. I don't like admitting that.

2) It seemed immediately suspicious to me that you not only defended Colin but immediately proceeded to damn me as bad even though I made a good faith attempt to try to explain my behavior. I can understand that obviously you don't know my intentions and so if you prescribe some sort of nefarious narrative to my behavior, it's natural that you'd suspect me based on that narrative.

You think that's suspicious, wait until it turns out he's bad! Ugh, too late to do anything now. I'm a big fat Colin apologist.

3) Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to ascribe to the view that once you've determined what you think is behavior indicative of a mafia member, you'd prefer not to engage and when you do you take everything with a grain of salt, because you don't want to be convinced out of being right. See, I prefer to play the other way around, even if it makes me inaccurate or feel regret. I'd rather listen to everything someone that I suspect has to say with as open a mind as possible, regardless of the actual content (and whether it's defense or accusations of other players or whatever), because I'd rather give them every single possibility to change my mind if I'm wrongly suspecting them. If that means I get convinced by people who are mafia to not suspect them, so be it.

I am ascribing to that view right now. I don't want to build my church upon it or anything. When I listen with an open mind, most everyone sounds Civ. It's like Day 1 forever. I have to draw the line somewhere. Mafia is hard.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:27 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:23 am Just realized I never did wish Spacedaisy a happy birthday, so here's one.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY @Spacedaisy!!!!!

"The day after my birthday is not my birthday Marm"

But today isn't even the day after her birthday either.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:40 am
I don't mind being bothered, and I rarely take offense. My ideal Mafia game contains people who get livid sometimes, and even people getting pissed off at other people. Some of the best fun comes from that so long as everyone keeps the perspective that we are a family here, and I love all of you, even when I'm thinking "That motherfucker, I swear to Christ I'm going to burn him down to the ground for this!" That's what I want... to be fine. I want that to be cool, I don't want Human Resources getting involved, and I don't want anyone to forget that game emotions are allowed to be separate from real emotions.

Oh my. I am both an ex-Human Resources professional and the mod for this game so maybe I'm paranoid but I think you mean me, LOL! I do appreciate though the sentiment to keep in mind that we're all family and love each other regardless of what we think of each others in-game personas. Kudos for that.

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:51 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:40 am
I don't mind being bothered, and I rarely take offense. My ideal Mafia game contains people who get livid sometimes, and even people getting pissed off at other people. Some of the best fun comes from that so long as everyone keeps the perspective that we are a family here, and I love all of you, even when I'm thinking "That motherfucker, I swear to Christ I'm going to burn him down to the ground for this!" That's what I want... to be fine. I want that to be cool, I don't want Human Resources getting involved, and I don't want anyone to forget that game emotions are allowed to be separate from real emotions.

Oh my. I am both an ex-Human Resources professional and the mod for this game so maybe I'm paranoid but I think you mean me, LOL! I do appreciate though the sentiment to keep in mind that we're all family and love each other regardless of what we think of each others in-game personas. Kudos for that.

I do mean you. I'm sure we are aligned in that thinking - that we don't want you to have to get involved.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:01 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:51 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:40 am
I don't mind being bothered, and I rarely take offense. My ideal Mafia game contains people who get livid sometimes, and even people getting pissed off at other people. Some of the best fun comes from that so long as everyone keeps the perspective that we are a family here, and I love all of you, even when I'm thinking "That motherfucker, I swear to Christ I'm going to burn him down to the ground for this!" That's what I want... to be fine. I want that to be cool, I don't want Human Resources getting involved, and I don't want anyone to forget that game emotions are allowed to be separate from real emotions.

Oh my. I am both an ex-Human Resources professional and the mod for this game so maybe I'm paranoid but I think you mean me, LOL! I do appreciate though the sentiment to keep in mind that we're all family and love each other regardless of what we think of each others in-game personas. Kudos for that.

I do mean you. I'm sure we are aligned in that thinking - that we don't want you to have to get involved.

I want Turnip Head to et involved, since he offered.



Also, I miss [mention]lapluie[/mention] already.

EBWOP: get involved

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:08 am LOL @M Plus 7 , @Long Con You both look pretty suspicious right now.

I don't necessarily disagree with Lunalee here. I think both of you have looked shady in this interaction.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:09 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:08 am I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

That's not a townie mindset.

MP looks shady here.

That's not a valid point. Nor is it a true point.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:09 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:08 am I'll prove you wrong when we lynch you and see your Persian ass evicted.

Lol, your behavior is so Mafia 101. You can't even meaningfully engage me, so you just throw up "lol Straw Man" and then vote me without backing down. You're so cornered right now.

I agree with MP's point about throwing logical fallacies out there. In my experience, baddies hide behind them. And it's not very LC to me.

MP's vote is weird af.

Jesus guys I’m on page 34 and I’m way behind today gettin busy, so I’ll catch up more towards tomorrow.

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pmI agree with MP's point about throwing logical fallacies out there. In my experience, baddies hide behind them. And it's not very LC to me.

Hey, I'm not like, Logical Fallacies Guy. I'm not trying to trot out fancy terms as an "A-HA!" moment. "Strawman" is just a generally understood term for what I was trying to say, so I used it. It's more concise than saying "MP, twice you took what someone said, and restated it as something else that is easy to attack."

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:14 pmI want Turnip Head to et involved, since he offered.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:24 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pmI agree with MP's point about throwing logical fallacies out there. In my experience, baddies hide behind them. And it's not very LC to me.

Hey, I'm not like, Logical Fallacies Guy. I'm not trying to trot out fancy terms as an "A-HA!" moment. "Strawman" is just a generally understood term for what I was trying to say, so I used it. It's more concise than saying "MP, twice you took what someone said, and restated it as something else that is easy to attack."

Sure.
Connect it to why it makes him bad. Civs can use straw men all the time.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:26 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:14 pmI want Turnip Head to et involved, since he offered.

Just quoting this because its a masterpiece.

If MP is bad, he wants to get Civs lynched, ideally by people who aren't him. Rephrasing their posts into something more suspicious-sounding is a way to get other people to "do the dirty work".

For example, a player who read what MP wrote might later think: "Let's think back on LC... he said there's absolutely no value in nightkill analysis! That's absurd. Why would a Civ try to stop all nightkill analysis? That doesn't look good!"

It's pretty clear logic.

Sure.

That's the furthest thing from iron clad I've ever heard, though.

And no, it doesn't have to be iron clad.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:06 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:04 am That has to be the most manufactured suspicion of me I've seen in quite some time, and boy have I seen a lot of it over the years. Congrats, LC. You're now blood red in my rainbow.

Chortle all you like. You're still guilty as charged.

But this makes it sound like it is.

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:45 pm And no, it doesn't have to be iron clad.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:06 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:04 am That has to be the most manufactured suspicion of me I've seen in quite some time, and boy have I seen a lot of it over the years. Congrats, LC. You're now blood red in my rainbow.

Chortle all you like. You're still guilty as charged.

But this makes it sound like it is.

True, but I also clarified specifically in other posts that I don't *know* he's bad, I just think it. Chalk up "guilty as charged" to the heat of the moment. Tempers were high at that slice of time.

Me reading through the LC-MP exchange:


I feel like this is different than the Dom-sig exchange in that one of them seems bad, and I can’t decide which one yet.

I can't believe I didn't post this right after the sig lynch!

Long Con, who do you think is the towniest of town right now?
And not counting yourself because I know your head just went there.

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:20 pm Me reading through the LC-MP exchange:


I feel like this is different than the Dom-sig exchange in that one of them seems bad, and I can’t decide which one yet.

I'd lean LC right now.

I believe that one of LC and MP is bad.
I believe that one of Golden and Sloonei is bad.

It would make me laugh if Mac is bad.

As far as big talkers go, that’s my thoughts. Mostly fit reads. Very strange not being a part of the action. I don’t have as much a grasp on the flow while looking as a spectator catching up. I can definitely see why that is hard for people.

Too many people that have good defenses. I find myself even nodding to some of Luna’s posts on day 2 (like that MP and LC both seem scummy). I mean hell, I know MP can work himself up in any alignment but cursing always surprises me with that guy. LC is making some stubborn statements that I seem to remember from GoC (like his irrefutable smugness in MP’s guilt). I mean, he’s just winking at us to lynch him.

I’m willing to trust Mac though. Just gonna be a sheep vote this day and follow the big heads since I ain’t one of them atm. There’s gotta be some bad guy(s) in there somewhere, steering the thread. It’s a bit chaotic tbh.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine aubergine

Yeah. Mac is the supertown right now.

I think MP and LC are sorta talking past each other at this point. I expect it to continue devolving into a deadly wizard cage match, but I'm secretly hoping it morphs into a buddy road trip comedy where MP is played by Tom Hardy and Long Con is played by Jason Sudeikis.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:39 pm I think MP and LC are sorta talking past each other at this point. I expect it to continue devolving into a deadly wizard cage match, but I'm secretly hoping it morphs into a buddy road trip comedy where MP is played by Tom Hardy and Long Con is played by Jason Sudeikis.

What does that mean for their alignment to you, if anything?

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:42 pm Jason Sudeikis is one of the most beautiful people alive fight me

He's all yours

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:43 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:39 pm I think MP and LC are sorta talking past each other at this point. I expect it to continue devolving into a deadly wizard cage match, but I'm secretly hoping it morphs into a buddy road trip comedy where MP is played by Tom Hardy and Long Con is played by Jason Sudeikis.

What does that mean for their alignment to you, if anything?

I think they're both good and seeing only the worst in each other.

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:42 pm Jason Sudeikis is one of the most beautiful people alive fight me

if the actor fits, you must acquit!

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:53 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:45 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:43 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:40 am

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:07 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:55 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:26 pm Read Golden's case against me on the last page, and his posts that followed the lynch, and ask yourself, "Does this [the case against Colin] make any sense?"

I'm interested in hearing your answers.

It does make some sense. You voting off-wagon while 3 people are almost tied for the lynch and 1 vote can change everything is suspicious to say the least. It's the bad kind of suspicious.

It doesn't matter how weak the cases against Sig, Epi and me are, I don't believe that after all that happened today you didn't have any read on us three. In the case, you read both 3 of us as Town, you could have voted for your weakest Town read to try to save the two others that you read strongly as Town. You didn't even attempt that and just took the easy way out.

So yeah, you voting off wagon in such a crucial time is bad and Golden's case has merits. This is something a player with inside information (scum) would do since they would know who would flip Town and thus not participate so late in a mislynch to avoid scrutinization.

So I avoided scrutinization by doing something that is more likely to get scrutinized? Not following here. Isn't it scummier to just jump on an easy wagon and parrot some BS reason that somebody else said than to actually try and hold someone different up to a light?

Why are you concerned with what is perceived as scummy?

Don't like this but ok I'll wait for Colin to respond.

I'm confused; what don't you like: my questioning of Colin's content or Colin's content?

Your questioning. Just like what you just tried to do to me, really. It's a leading question that is designed to get people to look at the post in a negative way.

This is the stuff I don't like about LC. What is a scum read if not a negative opinion? What is asking a question of someone you suspect if not a leading question?

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:45 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:42 pm Jason Sudeikis is one of the most beautiful people alive fight me

if the actor fits, you must acquit!

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:34 am I just cannot fathom this behavior. What even is this?

It is baddie LC. I feel very confident in it. I've been in disputes like this with LC when I've correctly called him out before.

A scum read is a negative opinion. No one is debating that. Some questions are leading questions, and others are not. Some leading questions address to subject matter accurately and honestly, and some pervert it into something it's not to make it look worse.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:11 am Oh, whoops. Keep forgetting these vote tag things.

[VOTE: VOTE: JACKOFHEARTS2005] aubergine

I think your choice to move is daft. You probably caught a bad guy and felt manipulated out of the vote.

My preference for a vote is Sloonei or LC. I think they both are stronger cases than Colin, but Colin is also a good case.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:05 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:34 am I just cannot fathom this behavior. What even is this?

It is baddie LC. I feel very confident in it. I've been in disputes like this with LC when I've correctly called him out before.

I'm in for voting LC. I suspected him on day one. With everyone's suspicions, why is no one voting him yet? [VOTE: LongCon] aubergine

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:05 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:34 am I just cannot fathom this behavior. What even is this?

It is baddie LC. I feel very confident in it. I've been in disputes like this with LC when I've correctly called him out before.

You have a vastly overrated opinion of your ability to read me, combined with a selective memory of History.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:38 pm If MP is bad, he wants to get Civs lynched, ideally by people who aren't him. Rephrasing their posts into something more suspicious-sounding is a way to get other people to "do the dirty work".

For example, a player who read what MP wrote might later think: "Let's think back on LC... he said there's absolutely no value in nightkill analysis! That's absurd. Why would a Civ try to stop all nightkill analysis? That doesn't look good!"

It's pretty clear logic.

But MP is the towniest townie that ever towned, and you suddenly barked up that tree based on, like, two posts - after he expressed suspicion of you.

oh, sorry, I didn't realize that MP is the Towniest town that ever towned. How could I be so silly?

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:08 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:05 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:34 am I just cannot fathom this behavior. What even is this?

It is baddie LC. I feel very confident in it. I've been in disputes like this with LC when I've correctly called him out before.

You have a vastly overrated opinion of your ability to read me, combined with a selective memory of History.

This one isn't based on my history of reading you so much. If it's based on a selective view of history generally, and you get in these disputes when town, feel free to demonstrate.

In the mean time, you are the one who tried to suggest this behaviour you 'only do' when civ, and that's just incorrect. Dom called MP out on his view of that statement, I'm corroborating it's truth. You definitely don't only act this way when town.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:07 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:05 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:34 am I just cannot fathom this behavior. What even is this?

It is baddie LC. I feel very confident in it. I've been in disputes like this with LC when I've correctly called him out before.

I'm in for voting LC. I suspected him on day one. With everyone's suspicions, why is no one voting him yet? [VOTE: LongCon] aubergine

I most prefer a sloonei vote right now which is where I sit.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:12 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:08 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:05 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:34 am I just cannot fathom this behavior. What even is this?

It is baddie LC. I feel very confident in it. I've been in disputes like this with LC when I've correctly called him out before.

You have a vastly overrated opinion of your ability to read me, combined with a selective memory of History.

This one isn't based on my history of reading you so much. If it's based on a selective view of history generally, and you get in these disputes when town, feel free to demonstrate.

What a waste of time that would be. You're wrong about me way more than you are right, and this one's just going to carve another notch in that pole.

In the mean time, you are the one who tried to suggest this behaviour you 'only do' when civ, and that's just incorrect. Dom called MP out on his view of that statement, I'm corroborating it's truth. You definitely don't only act this way when town.

When did I say that?

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:17 pmYou're wrong about me way more than you are right

and you call MP out for being misleadingly negative.

If I get time, I'll do some dirty work to prove this is wrong. I may not always be right about you, but I'm certainly right about you way more than I'm wrong, especially in recent times.

LC 'I'll call people out for making a statement about me, but it's a waste of time for me to demonstrate they are wrong'.

I currently don't think Long Con is bad just from reading his posts and hearing my instinct say "Hey, this guy's evil, but probably evil good".

I'm undecided on Sockface. I'm happy to see him posting this day phase and hope he doesn't slow down too much.

Meanwhile, TH has managed to avoid any scrutiny or scuffling. That's mildly suspect.

[mention]Marmot[/mention] ohmygosh marmotttttt!!!! I miss you mountains, I am here to cheer you on (/^-^)/*

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:23 pmMeanwhile, TH has managed to avoid any scrutiny or scuffling. That's mildly suspect.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:23 pm I currently don't think Long Con is bad just from reading his posts and hearing my instinct say "Hey, this guy's evil, but probably evil good".

I'm undecided on Sockface. I'm happy to see him posting this day phase and hope he doesn't slow down too much.

Meanwhile, TH has managed to avoid any scrutiny or scuffling. That's mildly suspect.

His recent responses have caused me to push him down to fourth in my list of four baddies. He's still the one that could most easily be replaced by someone else in terms of the interlocking pieces. While his response to MP is an ill-advised No U, it doesn't absolutely have to be a baddie mindset.

I'm also not loving colonialbob today.