The Syndicate

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm**

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:09 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:08 am I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.
That's not a townie mindset.
MP looks shady here.

That's not a valid point. Nor is it a true point.

Well, apparently, guess you all play differently than I do. I can't even imagine why a townie would be even remotely happy when receiving suspicion.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:28 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:22 pm LC 'I'll call people out for making a statement about me, but it's a waste of time for me to demonstrate they are wrong'.

It's like you gave him homework and he's like "I'll take the F."

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:28 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:09 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:08 am I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.
That's not a townie mindset.
MP looks shady here.

That's not a valid point. Nor is it a true point.
Well, apparently, guess you all play differently than I do. I can't even imagine why a townie would be even remotely happy when receiving suspicion.

He also doesn't seem particularly delighted.

I guess the idea is that you reduce your chance of a NK.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:30 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:22 pm LC 'I'll call people out for making a statement about me, but it's a waste of time for me to demonstrate they are wrong'.

I don't believe that me finding a game or two when I was Civ and you thought I was bad is going to change anything. I don't have time to go delving into the Museum of Mafioso just so you can stick to your guns.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:30 pm**

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:52 pm MP's vote is weird af.

Yeah, probably, it's a pressure vote that I certainly didn't intend on keeping necessarily. JoH has like 80 posts and yet off the top of my head I remember very little of any stances he's had on anything. I'm trying to make sure that we concentrate on as much of the field as possible right now because I feel like most of us have only been talking about a few, such as Sloonei and Colin.

And frankly it's really because I just felt like I needed to step away from the LC thing for a little while; I can tunnel pretty bad unfairly and I didn't want to do that.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:32 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:24 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pmI agree with MP's point about throwing logical fallacies out there. In my experience, baddies hide behind them. And it's not very LC to me.
Hey, I'm not like, Logical Fallacies Guy. I'm not trying to trot out fancy terms as an "A-HA!" moment. "Strawman" is just a generally understood term for what I was trying to say, so I used it. It's more concise than saying "MP, twice you took what someone said, and restated it as something else that is easy to attack."

Anyone can attack anyone else for anything though. That's the name of the game. I'm not some wizard or something magically changing the way you or Colin said anything. You all said what you said. You keep acting like I'm some really persuasive son of a bitch. Have you not played a game with me before?

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:33 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:09 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:08 am I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.
That's not a townie mindset.
MP looks shady here.

That's not a valid point. Nor is it a true point.
Well, apparently, guess you all play differently than I do. I can't even imagine why a townie would be even remotely happy when receiving suspicion.

I literally cannot count the number of times I have stated that I like to take some suspicion as a Civ to avoid getting nightkilled. Definitely over twenty times, I'd estimate. Sounds like your imagination could be well-served by listening to me more.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:33 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:24 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pmI agree with MP's point about throwing logical fallacies out there. In my experience, baddies hide behind them. And it's not very LC to me.
Hey, I'm not like, Logical Fallacies Guy. I'm not trying to trot out fancy terms as an "A-HA!" moment. "Strawman" is just a generally understood term for what I was trying to say, so I used it. It's more concise than saying "MP, twice you took what someone said, and restated it as something else that is easy to attack."
Anyone can attack anyone else for anything though. That's the name of the game. I'm not some wizard or something magically changing the way you or Colin said anything. You all said what you said. You keep acting like I'm some really persuasive son of a bitch. Have you not played a game with me before?

WTF? Wizard? Magic? What is this new narrative?

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:34 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:20 pm Me reading through the LC-MP exchange:

I feel like this is different than the Dom-sig exchange in that one of them seems bad, and I can’t decide which one yet.

How is it different, and what specifically influenced your assessment of our alignments?

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:34 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:30 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:22 pm LC 'I'll call people out for making a statement about me, but it's a waste of time for me to demonstrate they are wrong'.
I don't believe that me finding a game or two when I was Civ and you thought I was bad is going to change anything. I don't have time to go delving into the Museum of Mafioso just so you can stick to your guns.

I don't either, because a 'game or two' is certainly insufficient to demonstrate that 'I'm wrong about you far more than I am right'. It just demonstrated I'm not always right.

I'll cop to that for free. I wasn't playing in the GoC, but if I was, I wouldn't have been calling you out as bad before your slip. I never claim to be always right about you. I'm not even always right about MP, and I read him right nearly every time. But to suggest I don't read you well, generally speaking, is an untruthful suggestion.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:34 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:33 pm I believe that one of LC and MP is bad.
I believe that one of Golden and Sloonei is bad.

It would make me laugh if Mac is bad.

As far as big talkers go, that’s my thoughts. Mostly fit reads. Very strange not being a part of the action. I don’t have as much a grasp on the flow while looking as a spectator catching up. I can definitely see why that is hard for people.

Too many people that have good defenses. I find myself even nodding to some of Luna’s posts on day 2 (like that MP and LC both seem scummy). I mean hell, I know MP can work himself up in any alignment but cursing always surprises me with that guy. LC is making some stubborn statements that I seem to remember from GoC (like his irrefutable smugness in MP’s guilt). I mean, he’s just winking at us to lynch him.

I’m willing to trust Mac though. Just gonna be a sheep vote this day and follow the big heads since I ain’t one of them atm. There’s gotta be some bad guy(s) in there somewhere, steering the thread. It’s a bit chaotic tbh.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine aubergine

Scotty, you're great and all, but this is kinda weaksauce.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:36 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:07 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:11 am Oh, whoops. Keep forgetting these vote tag things.

[VOTE: VOTE: JACKOFHEARTS2005] aubergine
I think your choice to move is daft. You probably caught a bad guy and felt manipulated out of the vote.

My preference for a vote is Sloonei or LC. I think they both are stronger cases than Colin, but Colin is also a good case.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time that happened to me. I'm thinking it over.

Explain your thoughts on Colin to me; I'm not totally seeing it.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:36 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:34 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:30 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:22 pm LC 'I'll call people out for making a statement about me, but it's a waste of time for me to demonstrate they are wrong'.
I don't believe that me finding a game or two when I was Civ and you thought I was bad is going to change anything. I don't have time to go delving into the Museum of Mafioso just so you can stick to your guns.
I don't either, because a 'game or two' is certainly insufficient to demonstrate that 'I'm wrong about you far more than I am right'. It just demonstrated I'm not always right.

I'll cop to that for free. I wasn't playing in the GoC, but if I was, I wouldn't have been calling you out as bad before your slip. I never claim to be always right about you. I'm not even always right about MP, and I read him right nearly every time. But to suggest I don't read you well, generally speaking, is an untruthful suggestion.

I hear what you're saying, but right here, right now, really flies in the face of that belief.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:37 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:26 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:23 pm I currently don't think Long Con is bad just from reading his posts and hearing my instinct say "Hey, this guy's evil, but probably evil good".

I'm undecided on Sockface. I'm happy to see him posting this day phase and hope he doesn't slow down too much.

Meanwhile, TH has managed to avoid any scrutiny or scuffling. That's mildly suspect.
His recent responses have caused me to push him down to fourth in my list of four baddies. He's still the one that could most easily be replaced by someone else in terms of the interlocking pieces. While his response to MP is an ill-advised No U, it doesn't absolutely have to be a baddie mindset.

I'm also not loving colonialbob today.

What's wrong with cbob in your assessment?

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:40 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:36 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:34 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:30 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:22 pm LC 'I'll call people out for making a statement about me, but it's a waste of time for me to demonstrate they are wrong'.
I don't believe that me finding a game or two when I was Civ and you thought I was bad is going to change anything. I don't have time to go delving into the Museum of Mafioso just so you can stick to your guns.
I don't either, because a 'game or two' is certainly insufficient to demonstrate that 'I'm wrong about you far more than I am right'. It just demonstrated I'm not always right.

I'll cop to that for free. I wasn't playing in the GoC, but if I was, I wouldn't have been calling you out as bad before your slip. I never claim to be always right about you. I'm not even always right about MP, and I read him right nearly every time. But to suggest I don't read you well, generally speaking, is an untruthful suggestion.
I hear what you're saying, but right here, right now, really flies in the face of that belief.

Well we'll see about that. I've always said I need three or four full days to get a handle on you, I haven't had that yet, who knows where I'll be then. I do admit I can see both sides of this one. You are doing some stuff that looks very much like your baddie self, but I'm not going to pretend my opinion is impregnable. You fit least well in to my team of four, and there are aspects of your play that remind me of genuinely frustrated town LC.

If sloonei was lynched and came back bad, I'd certainly have other fish to fry before I came back to you.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:40 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:37 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:26 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:23 pm I currently don't think Long Con is bad just from reading his posts and hearing my instinct say "Hey, this guy's evil, but probably evil good".

I'm undecided on Sockface. I'm happy to see him posting this day phase and hope he doesn't slow down too much.

Meanwhile, TH has managed to avoid any scrutiny or scuffling. That's mildly suspect.
His recent responses have caused me to push him down to fourth in my list of four baddies. He's still the one that could most easily be replaced by someone else in terms of the interlocking pieces. While his response to MP is an ill-advised No U, it doesn't absolutely have to be a baddie mindset.

I'm also not loving colonialbob today.
What's wrong with cbob in your assessment?

He's making my gut feel like it has maggots in it.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:41 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:33 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:09 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:08 am I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.
That's not a townie mindset.
MP looks shady here.

That's not a valid point. Nor is it a true point.
Well, apparently, guess you all play differently than I do. I can't even imagine why a townie would be even remotely happy when receiving suspicion.
I literally cannot count the number of times I have stated that I like to take some suspicion as a Civ to avoid getting nightkilled. Definitely over twenty times, I'd estimate. Sounds like your imagination could be well-served by listening to me more.

Okay, lol, I don't ignore you, LC. I apologize if I ever gave you that impression.

But the viewpoint that a townie should actively enjoy and play in a manner that welcomes suspicion because it decreases the chance of a nightkill is incredibly myopic and completely ill-advised, in my opinion. It fails to consider that the most important thing a townie can do is work in good faith to find mafia. Trying to play a town role specifically with the fear of a NK is akin to playing an independent. Townies aren't independents. They're an uninformed majority that must work together to solve the game, and fearing NKs gets in the way of that.

This isn't a game theory thread though and I'd rather not go down that road because there are more important things to do, like find mafia.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:43 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:36 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:07 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:11 am Oh, whoops. Keep forgetting these vote tag things.

[VOTE: VOTE: JACKOFHEARTS2005] aubergine
I think your choice to move is daft. You probably caught a bad guy and felt manipulated out of the vote.

My preference for a vote is Sloonei or LC. I think they both are stronger cases than Colin, but Colin is also a good case.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time that happened to me. I'm thinking it over.

Explain your thoughts on Colin to me; I'm not totally seeing it.

Weak, poorly explained vote at deadline.
Hasn't defended it well.
Sloonei/colin/luna team fits in particular

What did you think about my 'theory of the game' post?

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:44 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:41 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:33 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:09 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:08 am I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.
That's not a townie mindset.
MP looks shady here.

That's not a valid point. Nor is it a true point.
Well, apparently, guess you all play differently than I do. I can't even imagine why a townie would be even remotely happy when receiving suspicion.
I literally cannot count the number of times I have stated that I like to take some suspicion as a Civ to avoid getting nightkilled. Definitely over twenty times, I'd estimate. Sounds like your imagination could be well-served by listening to me more.
Okay, lol, I don't ignore you, LC. I apologize if I ever gave you that impression.

But the viewpoint that a townie should actively enjoy and play in a manner that welcomes suspicion because it decreases the chance of a nightkill is incredibly myopic and completely ill-advised, in my opinion. It fails to consider that the most important thing a townie can do is work in good faith to find mafia. Trying to play a town role specifically with the fear of a NK is akin to playing an independent. Townies aren't independents. They're an uninformed majority that must work together to solve the game, and fearing NKs gets in the way of that.

This isn't a game theory thread though and I'd rather not go down that road because there are more important things to do, like find mafia.

You may disagree with the philosophy, but you can't deny it was prevalent in RM culture. LC comes from an alive-to-win culture where self-preservation was an important skill. I was an outlier in that world.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:37 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:26 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:23 pm I currently don't think Long Con is bad just from reading his posts and hearing my instinct say "Hey, this guy's evil, but probably evil good".

I'm undecided on Sockface. I'm happy to see him posting this day phase and hope he doesn't slow down too much.

Meanwhile, TH has managed to avoid any scrutiny or scuffling. That's mildly suspect.
His recent responses have caused me to push him down to fourth in my list of four baddies. He's still the one that could most easily be replaced by someone else in terms of the interlocking pieces. While his response to MP is an ill-advised No U, it doesn't absolutely have to be a baddie mindset.

I'm also not loving colonialbob today.
What's wrong with cbob in your assessment?

I don't like Cbob either. Maybe just a wallflowering scum trying to hop onto me with weak reasoning?

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:33 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:24 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pmI agree with MP's point about throwing logical fallacies out there. In my experience, baddies hide behind them. And it's not very LC to me.
Hey, I'm not like, Logical Fallacies Guy. I'm not trying to trot out fancy terms as an "A-HA!" moment. "Strawman" is just a generally understood term for what I was trying to say, so I used it. It's more concise than saying "MP, twice you took what someone said, and restated it as something else that is easy to attack."
Anyone can attack anyone else for anything though. That's the name of the game. I'm not some wizard or something magically changing the way you or Colin said anything. You all said what you said. You keep acting like I'm some really persuasive son of a bitch. Have you not played a game with me before?
WTF? Wizard? Magic? What is this new narrative?

Do we not speak the same language?

You keep posting over and over about how my strawman questioning of you and Colin somehow makes you both look more suspicious. But it doesn't make any sense. Anyone can read your source material. It's not as if my interpretation of your actions suddenly becomes what you actually wrote. Everyone has their own mind to go and say "nah, MP, you're making an error in judgment", whereas instead your entire argument for me being bad is somehow dependent upon a narrative in which:

1) Players will read my interpretations of a single post by you and Colin, which were formed in the way of questions by the way, not statements, and take my interpretation to be golden, even though the source material is right there within the quoted post;
2) I'm actively trying to twist your words with those interpretations with the specific intent to set you and Colin up to be mislynches;

And I cannot fathom how you sincerely believe that to be the case.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm**

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:37 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:26 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:23 pm I currently don't think Long Con is bad just from reading his posts and hearing my instinct say "Hey, this guy's evil, but probably evil good".

I'm undecided on Sockface. I'm happy to see him posting this day phase and hope he doesn't slow down too much.

Meanwhile, TH has managed to avoid any scrutiny or scuffling. That's mildly suspect.
His recent responses have caused me to push him down to fourth in my list of four baddies. He's still the one that could most easily be replaced by someone else in terms of the interlocking pieces. While his response to MP is an ill-advised No U, it doesn't absolutely have to be a baddie mindset.

I'm also not loving colonialbob today.
What's wrong with cbob in your assessment?
I don't like Cbob either. Maybe just a wallflowering scum trying to hop onto me with weak reasoning?

With most, if not everyone agreeing that I'm town, if I may add

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:46 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:34 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:33 pm I believe that one of LC and MP is bad.
I believe that one of Golden and Sloonei is bad.

It would make me laugh if Mac is bad.

As far as big talkers go, that’s my thoughts. Mostly fit reads. Very strange not being a part of the action. I don’t have as much a grasp on the flow while looking as a spectator catching up. I can definitely see why that is hard for people.

Too many people that have good defenses. I find myself even nodding to some of Luna’s posts on day 2 (like that MP and LC both seem scummy). I mean hell, I know MP can work himself up in any alignment but cursing always surprises me with that guy. LC is making some stubborn statements that I seem to remember from GoC (like his irrefutable smugness in MP’s guilt). I mean, he’s just winking at us to lynch him.

I’m willing to trust Mac though. Just gonna be a sheep vote this day and follow the big heads since I ain’t one of them atm. There’s gotta be some bad guy(s) in there somewhere, steering the thread. It’s a bit chaotic tbh.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine aubergine
Scotty, you're great and all, but this is kinda weaksauce.

Sometimes the sauce is too spicy. Also it makes my acid reflux flare up

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:48 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm 1) Players will read my interpretations of a single post by you and Colin, which were formed in the way of questions by the way, not statements, and take my interpretation to be golden...

I know we are both vocal, but I don't really believe anyone would mistake you for me.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:48 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:40 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:37 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:26 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:23 pm I currently don't think Long Con is bad just from reading his posts and hearing my instinct say "Hey, this guy's evil, but probably evil good".

I'm undecided on Sockface. I'm happy to see him posting this day phase and hope he doesn't slow down too much.

Meanwhile, TH has managed to avoid any scrutiny or scuffling. That's mildly suspect.
His recent responses have caused me to push him down to fourth in my list of four baddies. He's still the one that could most easily be replaced by someone else in terms of the interlocking pieces. While his response to MP is an ill-advised No U, it doesn't absolutely have to be a baddie mindset.

I'm also not loving colonialbob today.
What's wrong with cbob in your assessment?
He's making my gut feel like it has maggots in it.

Sounds like a real problem there; you should get that checked out.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:48 pm**

But seriously, I don't know. I put cbob at a very slight town read because I felt like he actually suspected me sincerely in that moment, but it was a very mild gut response.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:49 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:43 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:36 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:07 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:11 am Oh, whoops. Keep forgetting these vote tag things.

[VOTE: VOTE: JACKOFHEARTS2005] aubergine
I think your choice to move is daft. You probably caught a bad guy and felt manipulated out of the vote.

My preference for a vote is Sloonei or LC. I think they both are stronger cases than Colin, but Colin is also a good case.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time that happened to me. I'm thinking it over.

Explain your thoughts on Colin to me; I'm not totally seeing it.
Weak, poorly explained vote at deadline.
Hasn't defended it well.
Sloonei/colin/luna team fits in particular

What did you think about my 'theory of the game' post?

Which post is that specifically? Sorry.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:50 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:08 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:05 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:34 am I just cannot fathom this behavior. What even is this?
It is baddie LC. I feel very confident in it. I've been in disputes like this with LC when I've correctly called him out before.
You have a vastly overrated opinion of your ability to read me, combined with a selective memory of History.

You are sounding and acting just like LC from GOC tbh.

Throwing wild accusations at anyone who might vote you, emotionally baiting people, etc.

You've also mirrored your speech about me and my *conflicts* in that game.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:49 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:09 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:08 am I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.
That's not a townie mindset.
MP looks shady here.

That's not a valid point. Nor is it a true point.
Well, apparently, guess you all play differently than I do. I can't even imagine why a townie would be even remotely happy when receiving suspicion.

This is far from the first time you've encountered this perspective.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:36 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:07 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:11 am Oh, whoops. Keep forgetting these vote tag things.

[VOTE: VOTE: JACKOFHEARTS2005] aubergine
I think your choice to move is daft. You probably caught a bad guy and felt manipulated out of the vote.

My preference for a vote is Sloonei or LC. I think they both are stronger cases than Colin, but Colin is also a good case.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time that happened to me. I'm thinking it over.

Explain your thoughts on Colin to me; I'm not totally seeing it.

It, for me, stems from this post.

Colin had never mentioned Lunalee before that post, saw three trains and went NOPE. He has not mentioned a single suspect yet or anyone in the trains yet.

So, yeah, I lean bad on him for being like NOPE they can lynch someone today.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:50 pm**

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm
wolbre04 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:37 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:26 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:23 pm I currently don't think Long Con is bad just from reading his posts and hearing my instinct say "Hey, this guy's evil, but probably evil good".

I'm undecided on Sockface. I'm happy to see him posting this day phase and hope he doesn't slow down too much.

Meanwhile, TH has managed to avoid any scrutiny or scuffling. That's mildly suspect.
His recent responses have caused me to push him down to fourth in my list of four baddies. He's still the one that could most easily be replaced by someone else in terms of the interlocking pieces. While his response to MP is an ill-advised No U, it doesn't absolutely have to be a baddie mindset.

I'm also not loving colonialbob today.
What's wrong with cbob in your assessment?
I don't like Cbob either. Maybe just a wallflowering scum trying to hop onto me with weak reasoning?
With most, if not everyone agreeing that I'm town, if I may add

Spoiler: show

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:51 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:44 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:41 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:33 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm
Well, apparently, guess you all play differently than I do. I can't even imagine why a townie would be even remotely happy when receiving suspicion.
I literally cannot count the number of times I have stated that I like to take some suspicion as a Civ to avoid getting nightkilled. Definitely over twenty times, I'd estimate. Sounds like your imagination could be well-served by listening to me more.
Okay, lol, I don't ignore you, LC. I apologize if I ever gave you that impression.

But the viewpoint that a townie should actively enjoy and play in a manner that welcomes suspicion because it decreases the chance of a nightkill is incredibly myopic and completely ill-advised, in my opinion. It fails to consider that the most important thing a townie can do is work in good faith to find mafia. Trying to play a town role specifically with the fear of a NK is akin to playing an independent. Townies aren't independents. They're an uninformed majority that must work together to solve the game, and fearing NKs gets in the way of that.

This isn't a game theory thread though and I'd rather not go down that road because there are more important things to do, like find mafia.
You may disagree with the philosophy, but you can't deny it was prevalent in RM culture. LC comes from an alive-to-win culture where self-preservation was an important skill. I was an outlier in that world.

You're right, and I was always an outlier in it as well. It will absolutely never make any sense to me. Perhaps it made more sense with other parameters (like needing to be alive to win), but those parameters don't exist here so my assertion that it's an illogical philosophy stand. Obviously LC or anyone else is free to play that way though.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:52 pm**

Re: Colin, I appreciate the explanations, Golden and Dom. That definitely helps a bit more. I suppose I hadn't fully grasped the degree to which his last-minute vote was out of the blue. I can see that.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:53 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:34 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:20 pm Me reading through the LC-MP exchange:

I feel like this is different than the Dom-sig exchange in that one of them seems bad, and I can’t decide which one yet.
How is it different, and what specifically influenced your assessment of our alignments?

I feel like you both are tunneling each other because you are indignant about one thing or the other, and yet still talking on the same plane. Imagine a point, A, on a segment. Connected to point B, on the end of that segment. Now add any axis. You are talking at -7 on the y axis, and LC is talking at -8. Both of you are in the same quadrant and both of you seem right, but I don’t know which.

Whereas with Dom and sig, I feel like one was at Disney World Orlando and one was at Disney Land Tokyo and both kept trying to get the other to get fast pass on Splash Mountain with them but were failing miserably because they were on two different continents.

Ya dig?

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:53 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:49 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:43 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:36 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:07 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:11 am Oh, whoops. Keep forgetting these vote tag things.

[VOTE: VOTE: JACKOFHEARTS2005] aubergine
I think your choice to move is daft. You probably caught a bad guy and felt manipulated out of the vote.

My preference for a vote is Sloonei or LC. I think they both are stronger cases than Colin, but Colin is also a good case.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time that happened to me. I'm thinking it over.

Explain your thoughts on Colin to me; I'm not totally seeing it.
Weak, poorly explained vote at deadline.
Hasn't defended it well.
Sloonei/colin/luna team fits in particular

What did you think about my 'theory of the game' post?
Which post is that specifically? Sorry.

I believe the one where he listed out 5/6 options
One of them was one or both of me and Dunham being scum
Another was scum wanting to mislynch me or Dunya
Scum is clueless
Scum is scares of Epi and killed him
Plus one more (Scum is trying to take out no info people)?

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:54 pm**

I'm still not happy with my current vote on LongCon. Golden, you're posts are looking pretty solid to me. I think I'm going to hop over to sloonei
[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:54 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:33 pm Theories

1) Baddies include one or both of dunya and wolbre
2) Baddies want us to lynch one of dunya and wolbre
3) Baddies saw Epi's performance in GoC and are intimidated by him generally
4) Baddies just want to screw with us
5) Baddies don't know what is up

Anyone want to rank these theories?

This one @MP

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:56 pm**

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:54 pm I'm still not happy with my current vote on LongCon. Golden, you're posts are looking pretty solid to me. I think I'm going to hop over to sloonei
[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Is there any specific reasons my posts made you feel better about me? You had previously been voting for me.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:58 pm**

I'll move my vote back to LC for now. Before I left I was afraid I was unfairly tunneling him, but having returned to all of this and seen subsequent posts from him, I don't think I was. What is bugging me right now actually is this post, which LC made right after I left earlier today. What bothers me about it is specifically the second section the most, where he simultaneously is backtracking on me but also doubling down on his perspective that I'm strawmanning. It reads inorganic and forced, like LC's trying to still be consistent in his suspicion of me (which mafia tend to do) while also putting his foot off the brakes a bit.

[VOTE: LONG CON] aubergine

I'd still like to engage with Jack though.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:59 pm**

I am cool with Sloonei receiving some heat because I feel like he's pretty suspicious, but I want to emphasize that I don't think letting a wagon develop this early will be beneficial to any of us. We need to keep the discussion moving and the heat on a variety of players. I don't want anyone getting complacent or just coming in and parking on Sloonei and then fucking off.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:59 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:52 pm Re: Colin, I appreciate the explanations, Golden and Dom. That definitely helps a bit more. I suppose I hadn't fully grasped the degree to which his last-minute vote was out of the blue. I can see that.

And he never took a stance on that lynch.Just dismissed Golden.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:00 pm**

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:50 pm
wolbre04 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm
wolbre04 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:37 pm
What's wrong with cbob in your assessment?
I don't like Cbob either. Maybe just a wallflowering scum trying to hop onto me with weak reasoning?
With most, if not everyone agreeing that I'm town, if I may add

Spoiler: show

Can you explain this reaction, Dom?

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:01 pm**

[mention]M Plus 7[/mention] - catch!

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:11 am Sloonei
Colin
LC
Luna (changed read for me)

These four read quite team-compatible to me. Lots of links between their behaviours that could make sense. I’ll elaborate when I get time but generally pressed for time on long explanations right now - but anyone else who feels like grabbing the ball, I think this is a good set of four to examine in the collective.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:48 am OK so like, some random case-ish but not actually case thoughts on my proposed solution to the game.

I'm looking forward to sloonei saying his stuff on me because I always get a better read of how genuine people are being when they are talking about their perceptions of me. In any event, I agree entirely with Marmot that sloonei has been a little cautious in his reaction to my suspicion, almost like he's dodging dealing with me. I don't like.

There's quite a few things I don't like about the sloonster actually - he feels right off the mark, and I don't think it's just 'busy'. I think his 'energy' to 'content' ratio is off kilter. I really dislike his Nova vote. So much of this is gut but my gut is screaming.

Sloonei's voted for Colin in a way that feels out of context. Colin voted for Lunalee in a way that felt meaningless. LC has soft defended Colin and Sloonei. Lunalee seems to be tunneling on me which I don't object to so much in principle except it feels like there's not much there for how sustained it is. The suspicion started just after I called out LC, having already called out Sloonei. If Luna is bad, she's first time bad, and this is the kind of subtle misstep I could see someone making in their first time out. Nothing big, just a little timing. Basically I'm proposing a good chunk of distancing plus a good bit of whatever the opposite of distancing is.

Besides that, the overall interactions between the lot don't fill me with much confidence. There's plenty in there (like the soft defences), but even little interactions like this make me tingle a bit:

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:46 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:44 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:42 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:38 pm Golden, GTH, is LC bad?
WORST, this is the worst, seriously you are so bad, Golden already suspects me and voted for me so let's ask the crowd what the purpose of your post here REALLY is
Excuse me but Golden is voting for me.
Hey, I saw him first!

But I refer to a past vote.
That's my thoughts. I'm leaving this here and going to bed.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:02 pm**

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:54 pm I'm still not happy with my current vote on LongCon. Golden, you're posts are looking pretty solid to me. I think I'm going to hop over to sloonei
[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Why aren't you happy with it? I just came back and now I'm all by myself again.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:02 pm**

Also, I just have to say this now. Suspecting Luna is like suspecting juliets. You don't actually believe there is any possibility of a world in which Lunalee could ever roll scum, and it feels very wrong to suspect her.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:02 pm**

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:54 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:33 pm Theories

1) Baddies include one or both of dunya and wolbre
2) Baddies want us to lynch one of dunya and wolbre
3) Baddies saw Epi's performance in GoC and are intimidated by him generally
4) Baddies just want to screw with us
5) Baddies don't know what is up

Anyone want to rank these theories?
This one @MP

Oh, thought I answered this one, right? I'll check.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:02 pm**

I’m liking Luna’s organicness today. I don’t feel as brash and accusatory as I felt yesterday.

There’s a bunch of peeps I’m unsure of in this game. Like SpaceDaisy. When she gets back from margaritaville, I hope she can show some of that civ life I remember from GoC(even tho she wasn’t civ lol)

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:03 pm**

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:02 pm
wolbre04 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:54 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:33 pm Theories

1) Baddies include one or both of dunya and wolbre
2) Baddies want us to lynch one of dunya and wolbre
3) Baddies saw Epi's performance in GoC and are intimidated by him generally
4) Baddies just want to screw with us
5) Baddies don't know what is up

Anyone want to rank these theories?
This one @MP
Oh, thought I answered this one, right? I'll check.

Golden got the right one, I misunderstood, he posted the correct one above

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:03 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:56 pm
Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:54 pm I'm still not happy with my current vote on LongCon. Golden, you're posts are looking pretty solid to me. I think I'm going to hop over to sloonei
[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine
Is there any specific reasons my posts made you feel better about me? You had previously been voting for me.

I did place my vote on you for a while. But that was two days ago. I've seen more of your posts since then and feel better about you. Sorry, there's nothing specific I can point to. But depending on how Sloonei flips, I may change my mind.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:04 pm**

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:59 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:52 pm Re: Colin, I appreciate the explanations, Golden and Dom. That definitely helps a bit more. I suppose I hadn't fully grasped the degree to which his last-minute vote was out of the blue. I can see that.
And he never took a stance on that lynch.Just dismissed Golden.

Oof. That's not a good look even in isolation. Thanks for pointing this out.

Clearly I missed something because I don't even remember that post. Dammit. I must have skimmed too much.

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:05 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:02 pm Also, I just have to say this now. Suspecting Luna is like suspecting juliets. You don't actually believe there is any possibility of a world in which Lunalee could ever roll scum, and it feels very wrong to suspect her.

The only thing giving me pause is her post where she admits that Speedchuck had a talk with her to run over strategy and how to appear. This is entirely benign, but she seems like a smart player and with the help of an equally smart player, that’s like...smart player squared

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:05 pm**

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:02 pm Also, I just have to say this now. Suspecting Luna is like suspecting juliets. You don't actually believe there is any possibility of a world in which Lunalee could ever roll scum, and it feels very wrong to suspect her.

Lol, it does feel like that, doesn't it?

I'm reading over your theory post right now by the way.

The Syndicate

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