The Syndicate

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:01 am**

I also could have specified that roleclaiming, action claiming, and 'I'm not telling you but this is mechanical' claiming wasn't allowed. Once again, I did not.

I'm not upset with Drago, and especially not with Epi. Again, I think town played extremely well, and this set of circumstances in no way invalidates the game. Drago used his night actions really well, though partly by chance.

It's weird that I can barely remember games without D1 mafia lynches anymore. We need to start favoring mafia more in the setups. :P

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:01 am**

Where will the whims of fate lead us?
Poll runs till Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:31 pm
Please note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

You may select 1 option

Creature
0
No votes
Voters: None
Dragomir
0
No votes
Voters: None
Epignosis
3
33%
Voters: nutella, MacDougall, Dragomir
Jackofhearts2005
2
22%
Voters: Creature, sprityo
MacDougall
0
No votes
Voters: None
nutella
0
No votes
Voters: None
sprityo
0
No votes
Voters: None
No Lynch
0
No votes
Voters: None
Kaneshiro! (Host/Mod/NP/Dead)
4
44%
Voters: Rej, juliets, speedchuck, JaggedJimmyJay
Total votes: 9

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:02 am**

I've said my spiel. Good game, everyone. Better luck in another game, Epi, TSP, Rej. Well played.

Feel free to discuss, and thanks for playing!

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:04 am**

Good game folks. I see no dishonor, Epignosis. I've conceded once myself; sometimes just feels like the courteous thing instead of dragging matters (when they don't seem draggable, true or not). And don't sweat the claim goof, [mention]Dragomir[/mention], it was an honest mistake.

Thanks for hosting speedchuck and congrats to you and Luna on your genetic propagation.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:07 am**

Thanks for the game Speed. It was fun and yeah, it was total luck what exchanged between Epi and I with me targeting him.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:14 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:21 pm Visualizing the tallies for those analyses:

There's subjectivity in these classifications. Some may disagree. I can explain rationale later if needed.

It's not really just raw counts that concern me here, though it's a nice simplified guide. Further interpretation to follow.

Note to self: This method seems to have gone 1 for 2 on the mafia and clearly isolated 2 civilians (which could be random given that the numbers are the same for many). Consider trying again, but adapt your definitions for "static" and "moving" a bit to be more rigid. Greater semantic specificity may create more distinctions, but it must be relevant to alignment inferences.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:16 am**

So....this game did not have Hack Frost or Dante from the Devil May Cry series in it.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:25 am**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:16 am So....this game did not have Hack Frost or Dante from the Devil May Cry series in it.

I did choose good personas as flavor when giving Dragomir his options. One of them could have been Jack Frost. (But it wasn't.)

Run your own Persona Mafia, my friend. If you based it on personas instead of Phantom Thieves, it would be a very different game (and also not a heist)

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:28 am**

Oh well, atleast I get freelo

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:40 am**

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:01 am I also could have specified that roleclaiming, action claiming, and 'I'm not telling you but this is mechanical' claiming wasn't allowed. Once again, I did not.

I'm not upset with Drago, and especially not with Epi. Again, I think town played extremely well, and this set of circumstances in no way invalidates the game. Drago used his night actions really well, though partly by chance.

It's weird that I can barely remember games without D1 mafia lynches anymore. We need to start favoring mafia more in the setups. :P

I agree

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:02 pm**

Epi, you killed me Night 1!

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:12 pm**

sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:40 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:01 am I also could have specified that roleclaiming, action claiming, and 'I'm not telling you but this is mechanical' claiming wasn't allowed. Once again, I did not.

I'm not upset with Drago, and especially not with Epi. Again, I think town played extremely well, and this set of circumstances in no way invalidates the game. Drago used his night actions really well, though partly by chance.

It's weird that I can barely remember games without D1 mafia lynches anymore. We need to start favoring mafia more in the setups. :P
I agree

The mafia teams still win more often than civilians win.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:13 pm**

The poll is tied, maybe it's not over.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:15 pm**

Also I think mafia getting lynched on Day 1 is very rarely a matter of mechanics or setup. It's a matter of civilians putting in a strong enough effort that it's possible for non-civilians to stand out. Play hard and it can happen in any game.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:21 pm**

Usually mechanics have not even come into play yet on Day 1. Unless a host implements automatic protections, like vote decreasers or something.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:42 pm**

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:55 am Day 1 was unfortunate for mafia. By losing TSP, they lost half their utility.

Night 1: Dragomir got some boring options randomly, so he chose to give baton to Morgana. This did nothing. It probably should have notified Epignosis, but I didn't think that would matter in a game without claims. I was wrong.
Rej chose to insanify/voteblock nutella. That was fun.

Day 2: Rej was lynched. He still could have won if mafia had killed Dragomir, but Drago survived.

Night 2: On a 3/13 chance, Drago happened to get the option to anon neighbor someone for a day. Then he happened to pick the ONLY person he'd targeted (by their fake role name, so it was complete coincidence), who happened to be mafia. If any of those things weren't perfect, this would not have happened.
The two talked in QT about claims. I could have outlawed that in the neighbor chat. Another decision of mine that could have prevented the hardclaim. I did not.
Obviously once Epi claimed Morgana, the baton pass didn't line up. Drago asked me if the baton pass could fail. I told him it could fail in a coupole different ways and it would not notify anyone if it did.
He bluffed in the chat anyway that he knew for sure why it had failed, which was a safe bet, to be sure.
Epi conceded.

I did not see this going this way.

Good game, all! Thanks for playing.

Iiiiiiinteresting. This makes more sense then, sorry guys for overreacting.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:46 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:12 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:40 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:01 am I also could have specified that roleclaiming, action claiming, and 'I'm not telling you but this is mechanical' claiming wasn't allowed. Once again, I did not.

I'm not upset with Drago, and especially not with Epi. Again, I think town played extremely well, and this set of circumstances in no way invalidates the game. Drago used his night actions really well, though partly by chance.

It's weird that I can barely remember games without D1 mafia lynches anymore. We need to start favoring mafia more in the setups. :P
I agree
The mafia teams still win more often than civilians win.

Have they this year? If so, that's cool.

And yeah, mechanics won't prevent a d1 mafia lynch.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:48 pm**

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:46 pm Have they this year? If so, that's cool.

And yeah, mechanics won't prevent a d1 mafia lynch.

I'd say the space from about Q3 2018 through Q3 2019 has been largely defined by Day 1 mafia lynches, with numerous of those games still ending in mafia wins.

I should know.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:58 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:48 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:46 pm Have they this year? If so, that's cool.

And yeah, mechanics won't prevent a d1 mafia lynch.
I'd say the space from about Q3 2018 through Q3 2019 has been largely defined by Day 1 mafia lynches, with numerous of those games still ending in mafia wins.

I should know.

I've experienced similar. *cough* Phenon Origins V1 *cough*

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:31 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:14 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:21 pm Visualizing the tallies for those analyses:

There's subjectivity in these classifications. Some may disagree. I can explain rationale later if needed.

It's not really just raw counts that concern me here, though it's a nice simplified guide. Further interpretation to follow.
Note to self: This method seems to have gone 1 for 2 on the mafia and clearly isolated 2 civilians (which could be random given that the numbers are the same for many). Consider trying again, but adapt your definitions for "static" and "moving" a bit to be more rigid. Greater semantic specificity may create more distinctions, but it must be relevant to alignment inferences.

I think it's a good baseline and I'll be using the plinko idea as a scum hunting strat. Be

as far as checking my rolecard goes: I checked maybe halfway into day 1? I've seen a few people go to night 1 with mixed results but obviously once I ended up with three votes out of me my options were limited. I think allowing myself the careless abandon of having uncertainty probably made me play much more recklessly than I would have as scum and more aggressively than I would have with town. Obviously if I were town it wouldn't have worked well anyways because I would have gotten lynched.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:32 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:02 pm Epi, you killed me Night 1!

This is hilarious because if I had survived I would have pushed hard for a long con kill and Epi went for it anyways

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:37 pm**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:02 pm Epi, you killed me Night 1!
This is hilarious because if I had survived I would have pushed hard for a long con kill and Epi went for it anyways

i think the better part was long con had close to nothing posted and he still got killed

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:39 pm**

sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:37 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:02 pm Epi, you killed me Night 1!
This is hilarious because if I had survived I would have pushed hard for a long con kill and Epi went for it anyways
i think the better part was long con had close to nothing posted and he still got killed

That's why I made that decision. I figured LC was busy, and killing him would relieve him his obligations here.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:41 pm**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:39 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:37 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:02 pm Epi, you killed me Night 1!
This is hilarious because if I had survived I would have pushed hard for a long con kill and Epi went for it anyways
i think the better part was long con had close to nothing posted and he still got killed
That's why I made that decision. I figured LC was busy, and killing him would relieve him his obligations here.

It's the honorable thing to do

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:46 pm**

in any case congrats to the town you are all amazing and it's an honor to have been killed by you

This is also the first? game I've been lynched as mafia before endgameish. So it goes.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:46 pm**

Also I am maintaining my zero percent winrate on the syndicate -- sorry to all of my teammates I guess.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:15 pm**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:39 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:37 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:02 pm Epi, you killed me Night 1!
This is hilarious because if I had survived I would have pushed hard for a long con kill and Epi went for it anyways
i think the better part was long con had close to nothing posted and he still got killed
That's why I made that decision. I figured LC was busy, and killing him would relieve him his obligations here.

I really appreciated it! Such a relief, it really was.

Did you like my half-assed pretension of a role claim?

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:20 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:15 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:39 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:37 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:02 pm Epi, you killed me Night 1!
This is hilarious because if I had survived I would have pushed hard for a long con kill and Epi went for it anyways
i think the better part was long con had close to nothing posted and he still got killed
That's why I made that decision. I figured LC was busy, and killing him would relieve him his obligations here.
I really appreciated it! Such a relief, it really was.

Did you like my half-assed pretension of a role claim?

I couldn't tell you anything about this theme, so I didn't catch it.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:23 pm**

I'm kinda scared to play as scum on this forum after this game. Seeing how y'all so easily town read me, if I make the slightest meta change, y'all would catch me.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:26 pm**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:46 pm Also I am maintaining my zero percent winrate on the syndicate -- sorry to all of my teammates I guess.

That's not far from being totally random. novaselinenever lost his first 8 games here. Wins and losses often don't say much about anyone's individual performances.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:39 pm**

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:23 pm I'm kinda scared to play as scum on this forum after this game. Seeing how y'all so easily town read me, if I make the slightest meta change, y'all would catch me.

We dub that the glorfindel effect

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:54 pm**

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:25 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:16 am So....this game did not have Hack Frost or Dante from the Devil May Cry series in it.
I did choose good personas as flavor when giving Dragomir his options. One of them could have been Jack Frost. (But it wasn't.)

Run your own Persona Mafia, my friend. If you based it on personas instead of Phantom Thieves, it would be a very different game (and also not a heist)

Lol the problem is that I never finish rpgs.

I’ve literally been playing FF8 for over half my life and have yet to make it to the third disk (of four).

I’m in the middle of 4 SMT games.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:57 pm**

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:23 pm I'm kinda scared to play as scum on this forum after this game. Seeing how y'all so easily town read me, if I make the slightest meta change, y'all would catch me.

That’s been something I’ve had to work through for a very long time.

A suggestion if you want it: don’t change what you do as a civilian to make your life easier as a mafioso. Instead, work to elevate your playing energy as a mafioso to a comparable level. There may be bumps along the way, but the effort will make you all the better as an overall Mafia player.

You did a great job in this game. Getting out of mislynch range, making reads with confidence, and adjusting those reads as the game moves around you — that’s just about all you can do.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:01 pm**

Looks like we’re about to mislynch Jack.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:29 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:01 pm Looks like we’re about to mislynch Jack.

No such thing.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:49 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:01 pm Looks like we’re about to mislynch Jack.

You’re dead so probably not.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:56 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:26 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:46 pm Also I am maintaining my zero percent winrate on the syndicate -- sorry to all of my teammates I guess.
That's not far from being totally random. novaselinenever lost his first 8 games here. Wins and losses often don't say much about anyone's individual performances.

Oh I’m too arrogant for that to make me think I’m doing poorly

Outside of the game where I was lynched and modkilled day 1 that was probably not a great sifn

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:22 pm**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:56 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:26 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:46 pm Also I am maintaining my zero percent winrate on the syndicate -- sorry to all of my teammates I guess.
That's not far from being totally random. novaselinenever lost his first 8 games here. Wins and losses often don't say much about anyone's individual performances.
Oh I’m too arrogant for that to make me think I’m doing poorly

Outside of the game where I was lynched and modkilled day 1 that was probably not a great sifn

Both? I missed that. Wowie. :P You played fine this game TSP. Town gut/analysis was just on fire.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:40 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:57 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:23 pm I'm kinda scared to play as scum on this forum after this game. Seeing how y'all so easily town read me, if I make the slightest meta change, y'all would catch me.
That’s been something I’ve had to work through for a very long time.

A suggestion if you want it: don’t change what you do as a civilian to make your life easier as a mafioso. Instead, work to elevate your playing energy as a mafioso to a comparable level. There may be bumps along the way, but the effort will make you all the better as an overall Mafia player.

You did a great job in this game. Getting out of mislynch range, making reads with confidence, and adjusting those reads as the game moves around you — that’s just about all you can do.

Thanks for the advice man.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:58 pm**

Yes town was absolutely on fire from the get go, largely due I’d say to JJJ’s stimulus and just some easy townreads on Drago (which I still don’t understand), Nutella, and some other players from the start.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:59 pm**

Not that Drago didn’t play a very strong range limiting town game especially early it’s just that the collective solid gut-read halfway into day zero is almost unprecedented in I’ve seen

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:02 pm**

I think it would be difficult to articulate exactly what made Dragomir so obvious. It was immediate though, like on page 1, and that confidence never wavered for the most part.

At least in my case, there was a benefit stemming from the scrimmage game. The way he handled me from the get go was blaringly authentic given the dynamic between us in that scrimmage.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:24 pm**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:20 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:15 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:39 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:37 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:02 pm Epi, you killed me Night 1!
This is hilarious because if I had survived I would have pushed hard for a long con kill and Epi went for it anyways
i think the better part was long con had close to nothing posted and he still got killed
That's why I made that decision. I figured LC was busy, and killing him would relieve him his obligations here.
I really appreciated it! Such a relief, it really was.

Did you like my half-assed pretension of a role claim?
I couldn't tell you anything about this theme, so I didn't catch it.

I believe he just means his plea that it would be a bad idea to lynch him or whatever. Not flavor-specific at all, just implying he had an important role.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:11 pm**

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:24 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:20 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:15 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:39 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:37 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:02 pm Epi, you killed me Night 1!
This is hilarious because if I had survived I would have pushed hard for a long con kill and Epi went for it anyways
i think the better part was long con had close to nothing posted and he still got killed
That's why I made that decision. I figured LC was busy, and killing him would relieve him his obligations here.
I really appreciated it! Such a relief, it really was.

Did you like my half-assed pretension of a role claim?
I couldn't tell you anything about this theme, so I didn't catch it.
I believe he just means his plea that it would be a bad idea to lynch him or whatever. Not flavor-specific at all, just implying he had an important role.

That's right. It was all I had to offer.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:13 pm**

Ahhhh those niners

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:16 pm**

Best defence in the NFL don't even try me

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:22 pm**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:42 pm Like every player but Jay and Nutella suspected me. Most players who suspect me suspect Nutella.

The proper victory path is to shoot someone who would vote me and later use that as excuse to “reevaluate” Nutella to open up the mislynch pool.

Shooting Jay means I can’t mislynch Jay, have a much much harder time mislynching Epi and have a way higher chance to get lynched myself.

I would assume scum Nutella would have a similar thought process. I can’t imagine she’s scum here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:43 pm NKA is wifom bunk

[mention]MacDougall[/mention]

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:23 pm**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:22 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:42 pm Like every player but Jay and Nutella suspected me. Most players who suspect me suspect Nutella.

The proper victory path is to shoot someone who would vote me and later use that as excuse to “reevaluate” Nutella to open up the mislynch pool.

Shooting Jay means I can’t mislynch Jay, have a much much harder time mislynching Epi and have a way higher chance to get lynched myself.

I would assume scum Nutella would have a similar thought process. I can’t imagine she’s scum here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:43 pm NKA is wifom bunk
@MacDougall

Still wifom bunk.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:39 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:16 pm Best defence in the NFL don't even try me

That title goes to the Patriots my good sir.

Posted: **Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:59 pm**

Dragomir, sign up for Kirby Mafia.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 87#p551987

The Syndicate

Persona 5 Mafia [Game End]

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