The Syndicate

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:48 pm**

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:06 pm nook citing the vibe tell may be the villageriest thing he’s done this game, unironically

I think Nook fits that vibe tell best of anyone, unironically.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:50 pm**

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:05 pm @Master Radishes do you have any wolf reads?

Not at the moment, but I've not really had a chance to mull over D2 or do any spot checks on D1 yet.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:57 pm**

[VOTE: wilgy] aubergine

:sparta:

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:02 pm**

Yeah I nearly always fit it lol

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:10 pm**

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:06 pm nook citing the vibe tell may be the villageriest thing he’s done this game, unironically

to expand on this, i think citing someone else’s tell to apply to a current game is kinda villagery

i think if nook was gonna try to mislunch c4 as a wolf he probably comes up with something better than vibe tell, especially because c4 is pretty v read

reminds me of a villagery post c4 made D1 actually

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:14 pm**

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:49 pm I had the thought that if Axe were 2020 Schweppes I'd be townreading him

this one

i think mapping new people onto players you know well is >rand v, especially because he’s stuck with the NAA v read even when he easily could have dropped it

(caveat that if NAA is a wolf the second part holds less weight but first part is still true)

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:15 pm**

So I can have some light reading on my bus ride home, why was NAA's EoD villagery?

I dont even know what to feel about him, I just don't really get why he's now a town read.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:16 pm**

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:15 pm So I can have some light reading on my bus ride home, why was NAA's EoD villagery?

I dont even know what to feel about him, I just don't really get why he's now a town read.

jay explained it

one sec, will quote

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:18 pm**

@Master Radishes here

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:09 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:50 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:28 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:26 pm also talk about NAA? he’s still squarely PoE to me. and i would move dizzy up a tier.
I think NAA might have had the most town EOD of any player. That includes the lead-up to the elimination and the response to Alison's troll. Everything about that sequence I have seen from him before in prior town games.
can you link me a game you have in mind? or just point me to it
Fleabag is the closest analog I can find off-hand. I have forgotten so much about recent games.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:31 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:26 pm?

he seems so much more villagery in that game

what am i missing lol
I'm referring to a specific thing, e.g. treatment of a mass-suspect Day 1 that NAA himself town reads (in that game, sig). It's not a perfect comparison. There may be a better example, but I cannot remember specifically. Beyond just metagaming though, I think NAA handled the end of this Day 1 the way I expect him to handle it if he becomes confident about Alison being town (as she makes her final contributions over the last hour) and the momentum still carries through her being chopped despite him.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:19 pm**

i don’t agree though and think NAA was way villagerier in the game jay cited both D1 and D2

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:24 pm**

this is how town NAA entered D2 of fleebag after he defended the D1 mislunch:

Spoiler: show

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:27 pm I told you so

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:31 pm Dolby + TSP + the PRs, that's 5/6 of my quota for town reads @JaggedJimmyJay. So that's an easy 6 for you.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:34 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:33 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:31 pm Dolby + TSP + the PRs, that's 5/6 of my quota for town reads @JaggedJimmyJay. So that's an easy 6 for you.
Remember that one of those non-vanilla players cannot claim; they don't know they're a thing. That would be four though, sure. Thanks.
I mean, that and the fact that I'm obviously lock town for yesterday, Sig flip. If you don't see it, then you're probably just mafia, because I don't think you're bad.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:39 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:37 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:34 pm I mean, that and the fact that I'm obviously lock town for yesterday, Sig flip. If you don't see it, then you're probably just mafia, because I don't think you're bad.
I didn't realize you were referring to yourself.

You're not obviously lock anything to me (nor is anyone, I think that kind of language tends to be silly), but I'll take that into consideration.
I mean...

I pushed against the Sig wagon
I pushed on a Sig voter (who randomly was trying to put off the blame for his vote)

I get that you might be like, yeah but you could just theater... Yeah, but then look at the level of effort that I put into this game overall, and ask if I would really be bothered to do that shit as mafia just for the sake of the exact same outcome.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:39 pm I think it's JJJ and Sloonei

*shrug*

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:41 pm Like JJJ's post yesterday of "let's get 2 misses before we consider re-evaluation sounded a lot like, let's get 2 kills before we start talking about my slot, and my partners"

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:41 pm Add Falcon to my town circle, never rescinding on Falcon, Dolby, TSP town reads.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:43 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:42 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:41 pm Like JJJ's post yesterday of "let's get 2 misses before we consider re-evaluation sounded a lot like, let's get 2 kills before we start talking about my slot, and my partners"
That's not what I said. I was asked about 2 misses.
*shrug*

I don't remember the context to be honest, just a few words of the post. I'd still kill you for it. And for your lack of reasonable town reads coming into today.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:45 pm JJJ is just busy for the sake of being busy, his posting D1 felt the same tbh, no substance.

I would also kill Sloonei.

I will probably die today.

Town loss, let's go.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:47 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:46 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:43 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:42 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:41 pm Like JJJ's post yesterday of "let's get 2 misses before we consider re-evaluation sounded a lot like, let's get 2 kills before we start talking about my slot, and my partners"
That's not what I said. I was asked about 2 misses.
*shrug*

I don't remember the context to be honest, just a few words of the post. I'd still kill you for it. And for your lack of reasonable town reads coming into today.
ilario asked me if 2 misses would be enough to go after Sloonei. I said answering that question demands more context than just "2 misses".

It's pretty clear at the moment that you and I do not derive reads through a similar process. That's fine. But I am going to do things the way that I do them. Emerging from a town chop I am rarely going to have more confidence about town reads.
Ilario can be town for that.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:50 pm Ilario, Falcon, Dolby, TSP, PRs all town.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:04 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:01 pm I'm identical to myself in Bonk Mafia, and I have decided NotAnAxehole is a bullshitter. If my posts are "empty" now they were empty in that game too, but his reads between the games don't align. Site Meta Boy needs to make more sense.

The POE was fine because it felt fine, and the only escape is to spam contrarian reads into the game and pretend town reading sig is somehow clearing.

Thoughts?
I read bonk mafia

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:06 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:57 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:50 pm Ilario, Falcon, Dolby, TSP, PRs all town.
If I were to do gun-to-head reads I think I'd agree with all four of these.

But I don't think it's probable that it's correct. If I have to yank a mafioso from that pile my first instinct is falcon.
So yesterday you said I was towny, but my reads were wack and today you're saying I'm scummy, but my reads are fine?

Let's consolidate those shall we?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:10 pm Ok, I have a few moments, I'll catch up and give updated reads. People will blindly sheep me if I read thread, yes?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:58 pm I've skimmed through the ISOs purely looking for mechanical things, no content analysis (I don't know if it's needed actually)

Most town leaning evidence (in order):

JJJ

Sloonei

Dyslexicon

Dolby Falcon Marmott

LimeCoke Ilario

TSP

Johanna

G-man

Normally, I would suggest killing from the bottom up, but Ilario did something this game that I almost exclusively do as mafia, so I'm going to go look at some other games and check.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:00 pm Does anyone have a D1 VC?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:00 pm Sig (6): jay, sloonei, spf, ilario, dizzy, lime
G-man (2): axe, tsp
Dizzy (1): sig
Falcon (1): son of anarch
Ilario (1): falcon
Axe (1): Dolby
Tsp (1): Marmot

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:28 pm @JaggedJimmyJay

If I were a betting man, I'd say all of the mafia are in: TSP, Ilario, G-man, Johanna, LimeCoke

he seems like a different guy here to me

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:26 pm**

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:26 pm**

i could have kept quoting but hopefully you get the point

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:28 pm**

I felt his EoD was a lot of telling rather than showing. He said he tried to help Alison but I'm not sure he showed it.

He is tonally similar to a recent town game I played with him. But tone reads are unreliable.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:29 pm**

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:28 pm I felt his EoD was a lot of telling rather than showing. He said he tried to help Alison but I'm not sure he showed it.

He is tonally similar to a recent town game I played with him. But tone reads are unreliable.

i agree with the first part

i remember lol’ing at him saying “well i tried”

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:32 pm**

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

time to mason again, radishy

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:33 pm**

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

Okay.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:38 pm**

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:16 pm**

To me, this feels like a game where we probably shouldn't be relying mostly upon the kinds reads that technically apply to anyone -- does this person look classically town to me, and how much have they done? Otherwise very few living players meet the town standard and the game is left to chance (we'd have to choose correctly among a big pile of suspects). We're in kind of a shitty spot where it feels necessary to rely on gut judgments, even those we struggle to describe, as a primary tool. That's where I've been today with my NAA town read. I tried to put myself there with Wilgy but couldn't do it. I think I can get there with Dizzy. I'm not there with MR. I'm not there with Nanook. I'm there with Mac. I'm there with c4. I'm there with Hally.

I could be wrong about NAA. I cannot possibly claim to be confident. But I have felt the feel for him when it was most critical to feel the feel.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:16 pm**

Hally (400)

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:18 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:16 pm Hally (400)

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:21 pm**

i’ll trust you, jay

[VOTE: wilgy] aubergine

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:23 pm**

weird game honestly

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:25 pm**

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:23 pm weird game honestly

Agreed.

If a broader consensus leaves us with this suspect pool:

DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Master Radishes
Nanook
NAA

Who are the first two you (anyone reading) remove from consideration?

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:30 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:25 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:23 pm weird game honestly
Agreed.

If a broader consensus leaves us with this suspect pool:

DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Master Radishes
Nanook
NAA

Who are the first two you (anyone reading) remove from consideration?

dizzy and maybe nook

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:34 pm**

honestly though i wouldn’t even be that surprised if dizzy is a wolf but it’s kinda impossible to get there when half the game is not really playing so i feel like i almost have to trust him

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:34 pm**

Wilgy obviously town tbh.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:35 pm**

Kill MR, Dizzy, Nanook... The order doesn't matter. Killing Alison D1 was a travesty.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:36 pm**

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:39 pm**

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:34 pm honestly though i wouldn’t even be that surprised if dizzy is a wolf but it’s kinda impossible to get there when half the game is not really playing so i feel like i almost have to trust him

Yep. That's where I end up removing Dizzy and NAA, but with a similar feeling of

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:42 pm**

I think this game is actually really easy.

There's a hard difference check between Nanook and Mac.

There is a difference check between Dizzy and MR.

If Mac is mafia, it's probably with Dizzy.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:42 pm**

Kill MR if Mafia - > Nanook

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:42 pm**

Kill MR if Town -> Dizzy if Mafia -> Mac

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:42 pm**

Easy decision tree, guaranteed win.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:43 pm**

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:42 pm There's a hard difference check between Nanook and Mac.

It's an interesting thought, and I hadn't construed things in that way. But it is true that their interaction is not what I am used to seeing from Nanook and Mac.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:47 pm**

Why am I and Dizzy in a dichotomy? That was an Alison thing and now it's an NAA thing and I don't know why.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:50 pm**

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:47 pm Why am I and Dizzy in a dichotomy? That was an Alison thing and now it's an NAA thing and I don't know why.

You're both scummy, and I trust Alison sufficiently to carry her legacy out. This is why I sheeped her from the moment I thought she was town.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:50 pm**

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:34 pm honestly though i wouldn’t even be that surprised if dizzy is a wolf but it’s kinda impossible to get there when half the game is not really playing so i feel like i almost have to trust him

Half the game not playing seems

Harsh

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:57 pm**

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:06 pm nook citing the vibe tell may be the villageriest thing he’s done this game, unironically

I find it suspicious. Nanook is not a player I expect to see reference anyone else's methods to justify his own reads, save maybe a very small 451 shortlist. Nanook gets reads the Nanook way, not the IAWY way.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:12 pm**

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:50 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:47 pm Why am I and Dizzy in a dichotomy? That was an Alison thing and now it's an NAA thing and I don't know why.
You're both scummy, and I trust Alison sufficiently to carry her legacy out. This is why I sheeped her from the moment I thought she was town.

But why is there a difference check?

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:14 pm**

And what's your reasoning for me being scummy?

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:21 pm**

@DrWilgy I would love to be thoroughly licked by your unique intuitions.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:45 pm**

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:12 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:50 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:47 pm Why am I and Dizzy in a dichotomy? That was an Alison thing and now it's an NAA thing and I don't know why.
You're both scummy, and I trust Alison sufficiently to carry her legacy out. This is why I sheeped her from the moment I thought she was town.
But why is there a difference check?

Because likely only one of you can be mafia... And at least one of you MUST be mafia.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:45 pm**

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:14 pm And what's your reasoning for me being scummy?

You should have argued with the ghost before she became a ghost.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:04 pm**

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:45 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:12 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:50 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:47 pm Why am I and Dizzy in a dichotomy? That was an Alison thing and now it's an NAA thing and I don't know why.
You're both scummy, and I trust Alison sufficiently to carry her legacy out. This is why I sheeped her from the moment I thought she was town.
But why is there a difference check?
Because likely only one of you can be mafia... And at least one of you MUST be mafia.

But

and hear me out here

why?

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:04 pm**

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:45 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:14 pm And what's your reasoning for me being scummy?
You should have argued with the ghost before she became a ghost.

Alison had a case. A poor one, but a case.

What's yours?

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:18 pm**

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:04 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:45 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:14 pm And what's your reasoning for me being scummy?
You should have argued with the ghost before she became a ghost.
Alison had a case. A poor one, but a case.

What's yours?

Do you believe this is going to help?

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:24 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:57 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:06 pm nook citing the vibe tell may be the villageriest thing he’s done this game, unironically
I find it suspicious. Nanook is not a player I expect to see reference anyone else's methods to justify his own reads, save maybe a very small 451 shortlist. Nanook gets reads the Nanook way, not the IAWY way.

I borrow peoples reads on occasion

Usually I dont say I am tho, tbf

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:25 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:18 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:04 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:45 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:14 pm And what's your reasoning for me being scummy?
You should have argued with the ghost before she became a ghost.
Alison had a case. A poor one, but a case.

What's yours?
Do you believe this is going to help?

Do I...believe having someone explain why they scumread another player is going to help?

Yes. Yes I do.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:26 pm**

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:42 pm I think this game is actually really easy.

There's a hard difference check between Nanook and Mac.

There is a difference check between Dizzy and MR.

If Mac is mafia, it's probably with Dizzy.

can dizzy be mafia with not me cuz that guy is scummy as fek

The Syndicate

Highway Heist (MAFIA WIN)

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