The Syndicate

If you're just going to vote for whoever posts the best case (or, more likely, whoever posts a case closest to when you feel like voting) you would be doing everyone a favor by not voting.

White Queen wrote:OK, assuming I am Apocalypse, then, keep lynching me, and let the baddies NK all the civvies, lol. See how far that gets you. After doing it a second time, they will say, "Lynch her three times, that must be it". Then "Four times, yeah, that's the ticket".

Not very far, that is how far that will get you.

There is a way to defeat Apocalypse, everyone would not be required to do so in order to win if there was not. But the civs still have to defeat the baddies as well. The baddies have been running this thread very seriously. The civs need to step up.

White Queen wrote:I actually think Domino was actually Mystique myself. Why would that make him bad? Some people you apparently trust have said some far fetched things as well.

How do you explain Longshot thinking Apocalypse tried to kill Hawkeye when the post says, or implies, nothing of the sort? For that matter, what is your opinion of Hawkeye or of Phoenix, who also was a last minute switcher, I believe? To tie you and Havok?

White Queen wrote:I actually think Domino was actually Mystique myself. Why would that make him bad? Some people you apparently trust have said some far fetched things as well.

How do you explain Longshot thinking Apocalypse tried to kill Hawkeye when the post says, or implies, nothing of the sort? For that matter, what is your opinion of Hawkeye or of Phoenix, who also was a last minute switcher, I believe? To tie you and Havok?

Longshot wrote:

Banshee wrote:it looks like both rasputin and hawkeye were attacked last night and both survived... interesting...

isn't that rasputin's 2nd night survival?

Yes, wasn't the other an attach by Apocalypse? Also, Banshee or anyone, does the part of this post about the sentinel make sense to anyone? I'm obviously missing something about how they operate because i don't understand the reference.

White Queen wrote:

Longshot wrote:

Banshee wrote:it looks like both rasputin and hawkeye were attacked last night and both survived... interesting...

isn't that rasputin's 2nd night survival?

Yes, wasn't the other an attach by Apocalypse? Also, Banshee or anyone, does the part of this post about the sentinel make sense to anyone? I'm obviously missing something about how they operate because i don't understand the reference.

Banshee wrote:

White Queen wrote:I actually think Domino was actually Mystique myself. Why would that make him bad? Some people you apparently trust have said some far fetched things as well.

How do you explain Longshot thinking Apocalypse tried to kill Hawkeye when the post says, or implies, nothing of the sort? For that matter, what is your opinion of Hawkeye or of Phoenix, who also was a last minute switcher, I believe? To tie you and Havok?

WQ can I ask, why would LS thinking Apocalypse tried to kill Hawkeye indicate that LS is a baddie?

Wouldn't the only people capable of knowing that be Apocalypse himself? (and also maybe his horsemen)

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:I feel good about Longshot right now. I was also feeling ok about Polaris, though I've waffled on her before, but her vote switch yesterday makes me think she deserves another very hard look.

Mikhail Rasputin wrote: So for Domino to be the real Mystique, one way is for Dazzler to be bad too. (A less than 1% chance, by my estimate, which you could dispute. But unarguably really low odds.) This is the only possible case where Shadowcat is good and Domino is bad, as far as I can see.

The only other way I can possibly see is that both Shadowcat and Domino were bad, and engineered both a fake info drop and a fake role claim figuring that a 1-1 civvie-baddie lynch would somehow benefit the baddies. That doesn't work for me, especially since Gambit wasn't a terribly powerful role (I mean, his power was cool and all, but nothing to make baddies quake in their boots). I don't think you believe this, though, because if you did, you'd have been going hard after Shadowcat all this time, and you haven't done that.

Now I admit, Domino's posting style wasn't the most civ-like I've seen. But civs post aggressively all the time, and honestly, I wasn't super confident in Exodus being good before all that. Maybe you were and it affected how you viewed the situation. My belief is not based on anyone's posting style except for Shadowcat's, and it's only very lightly based on that. I see that as an advantage: all the assumptions can be evaluated using cost/benefit analysis and math, no feelings.

So that's why I think Exodus was bad, and why I've been so suspicious that you and some others don't agree. I'll pose this to you, but I'd be interested to hear The Vision's response too: What exactly is it that you believe happened, why don't you believe what I do, and why?

White Queen wrote:I actually think Domino was actually Mystique myself. Why would that make him bad? Some people you apparently trust have said some far fetched things as well.

How do you explain Longshot thinking Apocalypse tried to kill Hawkeye when the post says, or implies, nothing of the sort? For that matter, what is your opinion of Hawkeye or of Phoenix, who also was a last minute switcher, I believe? To tie you and Havok?

Havok wrote: That lynch ended up 10 votes for Exodus and Sunfire got 3. Exodus actually voted for Shadowcat in that lynch. So, if Exodus really were Mystique, all that team had to do was have Exodus vote for Sunfire to make it 10-4 and then have the other team mates also vote for Sunfire. At least a couple of the Exodus voters had to be Brotherhood, so it wouldn't have been difficult to change the outcome of that lynch. So Sunfire would have been lynched and flipped civvie of course as we would later find out. Where is the risk in that scenario? People would have thought it was an obvious save of Exodus, you say? Even so, what is the risk? If people see that it was a save, they lynch Exodus the next day and guess what? Exodus flips civvie then too. There is absolutely ZERO risk in saving Exodus. So, why wasn't Exodus saved? Because he wasn't Mystique. He was Gambit.

Havok wrote:

Mikhail Rasputin wrote: The only other way I can possibly see is that both Shadowcat and Domino were bad, and engineered both a fake info drop and a fake role claim figuring that a 1-1 civvie-baddie lynch would somehow benefit the baddies. That doesn't work for me, especially since Gambit wasn't a terribly powerful role (I mean, his power was cool and all, but nothing to make baddies quake in their boots). I don't think you believe this, though, because if you did, you'd have been going hard after Shadowcat all this time, and you haven't done that.

So that's why I think Exodus was bad, and why I've been so suspicious that you and some others don't agree. I'll pose this to you, but I'd be interested to hear The Vision's response too: What exactly is it that you believe happened, why don't you believe what I do, and why?

Firstly, I have gone after Shadowcat. I've said on multiple occasions that I thought her initial info dump was fake.

Next, the reason I think Exodus was Gambit and Domino was Mystique is very simple. It goes back to the Exodus lynch. I brought this up right away, and I still 100% believe it to be solid. At the time of Shadowcat's "info drop" and Exodus's subsequent lynch, the Brotherhood was still very strong with no more than 1 member dead. In your assumption (that Exodus was the real Mystique) you must also be assuming that the entire brotherhood decided it was the best course of action to just give up and throw Exodus under the bus. No one tried to help and save Exodus. No one. It was a fairly one sided lynch. I'll ask again, why wouldn't the brotherhood with their large number not save Exodus? If they knew that Exodus was going to show up civvie, why not save their team mate? Or at the very least defend the hell out of him? Why throw someone under the bus if they are going to flip civvie? Literally nothing is gained in this scenario. That lynch ended up 10 votes for Exodus and Sunfire got 3. Exodus actually voted for Shadowcat in that lynch. So, if Exodus really were Mystique, all that team had to do was have Exodus vote for Sunfire to make it 10-4 and then have the other team mates also vote for Sunfire. At least a couple of the Exodus voters had to be Brotherhood, so it wouldn't have been difficult to change the outcome of that lynch. So Sunfire would have been lynched and flipped civvie of course as we would later find out. Where is the risk in that scenario? People would have thought it was an obvious save of Exodus, you say? Even so, what is the risk? If people see that it was a save, they lynch Exodus the next day and guess what? Exodus flips civvie then too. There is absolutely ZERO risk in saving Exodus. So, why wasn't Exodus saved? Because he wasn't Mystique. He was Gambit.

So, then as soon as the lynch post comes up....and I do mean as soon as....Domino rushes in to role claim Gambit and call out Exodus as not really being Gambit. Exactly 8 minutes went by from the time the lynch poll went up to the time that Exodus made her role claim.

So, my theory goes like this. The Brotherhood figures out a way to try to completely take over the game discussion and future lynches. Shadowcat comes into the thread to drop her info and "expose" Exodus. You mention that about why would Shadowcat take that kind of risk when she is pretty damn sure that Exodus would flip civvie? Enter Domino aka Mystique to follow up Shadowcat's info drop with a role claim. That erases any risk Shadowcat would have had if she has someone to back her up like that. "See everyone? My info was correct. Exodus really was bad! The real Gambit is still alive!"

I'm not sure exactly why you have been calling this theory so crazy. If I compare mine to yours, mine looks way more probable than yours. Yours is basically rooted in the belief that the info drops have been completely legit and well intentioned. I don't see it....at all. Your theory assumes that the brotherhood made a terrible, god awful usage of the Mystique role. Mine assumes that the baddies used the Mystique role to it's max potential. I think mine is more likely.

linki x2

White Queen wrote:I actually think Domino was actually Mystique myself. Why would that make him bad? Some people you apparently trust have said some far fetched things as well.

How do you explain Longshot thinking Apocalypse tried to kill Hawkeye when the post says, or implies, nothing of the sort? For that matter, what is your opinion of Hawkeye or of Phoenix, who also was a last minute switcher, I believe? To tie you and Havok?

Polaris wrote:

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:I feel good about Longshot right now. I was also feeling ok about Polaris, though I've waffled on her before, but her vote switch yesterday makes me think she deserves another very hard look.

Like I said yesterday, the reason I did switch my vote at the very end was because I just wasn't certain, so I figured that it couldn't hurt to pass the decision on to Cyclops, someone we know is a civvie, assuming he's alive. There's also something else I was looking for, which I won't share yet. Also, we actually don't even know who was lynched officially I don't think. All we have is White Queen popping in to say that she knew she was going to be the one who was lynched. This is what I'm finding the most confusing right now.

And yes White Queen, I can agree with you. If you are Apocalypse, there's no point in trying to lynch you until we can figure out how.

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:I think it's very possible Cyclops is dead and that ties are now handled the way Epi always handles ties--no lynch.

Havok wrote:Firstly, I have gone after Shadowcat. I've said on multiple occasions that I thought her initial info dump was fake.

Next, the reason I think Exodus was Gambit and Domino was Mystique is very simple. It goes back to the Exodus lynch. I brought this up right away, and I still 100% believe it to be solid. At the time of Shadowcat's "info drop" and Exodus's subsequent lynch, the Brotherhood was still very strong with no more than 1 member dead. In your assumption (that Exodus was the real Mystique) you must also be assuming that the entire brotherhood decided it was the best course of action to just give up and throw Exodus under the bus. No one tried to help and save Exodus. No one. It was a fairly one sided lynch. I'll ask again, why wouldn't the brotherhood with their large number not save Exodus? If they knew that Exodus was going to show up civvie, why not save their team mate? Or at the very least defend the hell out of him? Why throw someone under the bus if they are going to flip civvie? Literally nothing is gained in this scenario. That lynch ended up 10 votes for Exodus and Sunfire got 3. Exodus actually voted for Shadowcat in that lynch. So, if Exodus really were Mystique, all that team had to do was have Exodus vote for Sunfire to make it 10-4 and then have the other team mates also vote for Sunfire. At least a couple of the Exodus voters had to be Brotherhood, so it wouldn't have been difficult to change the outcome of that lynch. So Sunfire would have been lynched and flipped civvie of course as we would later find out. Where is the risk in that scenario? People would have thought it was an obvious save of Exodus, you say? Even so, what is the risk? If people see that it was a save, they lynch Exodus the next day and guess what? Exodus flips civvie then too. There is absolutely ZERO risk in saving Exodus. So, why wasn't Exodus saved? Because he wasn't Mystique. He was Gambit.

So, then as soon as the lynch post comes up....and I do mean as soon as....Domino rushes in to role claim Gambit and call out Exodus as not really being Gambit. Exactly 8 minutes went by from the time the lynch poll went up to the time that Exodus made her role claim.

So, my theory goes like this. The Brotherhood figures out a way to try to completely take over the game discussion and future lynches. Shadowcat comes into the thread to drop her info and "expose" Exodus. You mention that about why would Shadowcat take that kind of risk when she is pretty damn sure that Exodus would flip civvie? Enter Domino aka Mystique to follow up Shadowcat's info drop with a role claim. That erases any risk Shadowcat would have had if she has someone to back her up like that. "See everyone? My info was correct. Exodus really was bad! The real Gambit is still alive!"

I'm not sure exactly why you have been calling this theory so crazy. If I compare mine to yours, mine looks way more probable than yours. Yours is basically rooted in the belief that the info drops have been completely legit and well intentioned. I don't see it....at all. Your theory assumes that the brotherhood made a terrible, god awful usage of the Mystique role. Mine assumes that the baddies used the Mystique role to it's max potential. I think mine is more likely.

linki x2

Polaris wrote:
Like I said yesterday, the reason I did switch my vote at the very end was because I just wasn't certain, so I figured that it couldn't hurt to pass the decision on to Cyclops, someone we know is a civvie, assuming he's alive.

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:
Ok, you've said her info was fake, but I don't recall you ever leading a serious lynch push against her. Which you should do, because if your theory is correct she is by necessity bad. (For contrast, I'm only tangetially related to that initial case. So I just find it strange you're all over me but not trying to get Shadowcat killed. I think it may be because I seem like an easier target.

I can see what you're saying about Shadowcat and Domino. You're neglecting to say one thing about that lynch: even Exodus himself didn't put up any defense. He was more or less like "Well, yeah, I got that info too, but I didn't really think I'd do anything about it...." He came off as shell-shocked to me.

If Exodus were bad: So do I think a baddie team could feel the same way in the face of a huge info dump? Yeah, I do. Info is not like any other kind of mafia case. The idea is it's irrefutable. I think that, even though they knew Exodus would look civ, it's entirely believable that they thought it was too risky to all vote exactly the same on that lynch poll. Keep in mind that, if they had, Shadowcat would also have flipped civ, which would have made them look hella bad, and they'd all be stuck with those incriminating votes right next to each other. I know I'm super paranoid about that kinda stuff when I'm bad. Not to mention her info would then indicate Exodus HAD to be bad, since she wasn't. You say that they misplayed it, but that's only your opinion. And more importantly, it's making a lot of assumptions about their strategy and emotional states that we have no way of verifying one way or the other, and it's assuming that they DON'T save Exodus, but you still say you think they should've.

I do think your theory looks more plausible than I did at first glance, I'll say that. I still don't find it likely, personally, but I'm glad to know where you're coming from.

I still don't get this, though: if your theory is correct, we NEED to lynch Shadowcat. That would conclusively prove or disprove it, since she isn't a seemer. Yet you've spent the 3.5 days since then going after me, when lynching me proves nothing about your theory. I'm civ, so even in the best case for you it proves only that I was mistaken, if indeed you are right, or that I was right if you're wrong.

This won't happen, but if I were to flip bad after you led a lynch on me, it wouldn't say anything about the initial case, just that I as an individual baddie did a good job using the situation. It wouldn't even incriminate Shadowcat, necessarily, because it's just as possible she's still not bad and you got hoodwinked, and since there's such a big baddie team, I just came in to play the other side of the debate. Not putting all your eggs in one basket and such. Does that make sense? You should definitely, only, relentlessly, be pushing for Shadowcat to be killed. Then we'll know for sure. But you're not doing that, and it weirds me out.

Linki: Yup, that. It would be poor play, and not because of Exodus' role but because of Shadowcat's.

The Vision wrote:

Polaris wrote:
Like I said yesterday, the reason I did switch my vote at the very end was because I just wasn't certain, so I figured that it couldn't hurt to pass the decision on to Cyclops, someone we know is a civvie, assuming he's alive.

There's one problem with this explanation of yours. You clearly have your finger on the pulse here, you know how Cyclops' role works and you say that you tied up the lynch to put it in his hands. Yet, making the lynch a tie is in fact a way to guarantee that it WON'T go into Cyclops hands. His vote is worth three. And you don't know which player he is (I assume). So by definition, you say you wanted to put the lynch in Cyclops' hands but you created a situation that was VERY unlikely to do that, unless you also had knowledge of, say, the Sentinels' current vote strength etc.

If you wanted Cyclops to have the best chance to get a tie to judge, you should have made the lynch more lopsided and hoped he had voted on the lesser side.

I find it interesting that you had Cyclops' role so much in the front of your mind, but forgot this simple part of his role.

The Vision wrote:I think we need two things. We need to lynch a baddie to solve the Gambit question. And then we need to talk about Apocalypse. But you won't get any of that from eyeing me. I'm going to go back now to figure out who might be best.

Shadowcat wrote: That wasn't the intent. From some additional info I had, it made me start to think there was a good chance Exodus was bad. But I wanted to go back and re-read him because I felt that, in context, what he was saying would either confirm or eliminate my suspicions of him. In this case, however, it most certainly confirmed it for me.

And before I forget, votes Exodus.

Longshot wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:Hostest with the mostest: Can you tell me who tried to murder me the other night? Pretty please?

The attempt was the work of the Morlock Tunnels Maintenance Department, under the influence of a certain Apocalypse.

Well, my theory is out the window knowing it was Apocalypse. Maybe you're right and he (shaw) is indy Mikhail because you're right, he doesnt seem to care at all.

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:

Havok wrote:

Mikhail Rasputin wrote: The only other way I can possibly see is that both Shadowcat and Domino were bad, and engineered both a fake info drop and a fake role claim figuring that a 1-1 civvie-baddie lynch would somehow benefit the baddies. That doesn't work for me, especially since Gambit wasn't a terribly powerful role (I mean, his power was cool and all, but nothing to make baddies quake in their boots). I don't think you believe this, though, because if you did, you'd have been going hard after Shadowcat all this time, and you haven't done that.

So that's why I think Exodus was bad, and why I've been so suspicious that you and some others don't agree. I'll pose this to you, but I'd be interested to hear The Vision's response too: What exactly is it that you believe happened, why don't you believe what I do, and why?

Firstly, I have gone after Shadowcat. I've said on multiple occasions that I thought her initial info dump was fake.

Next, the reason I think Exodus was Gambit and Domino was Mystique is very simple. It goes back to the Exodus lynch. I brought this up right away, and I still 100% believe it to be solid. At the time of Shadowcat's "info drop" and Exodus's subsequent lynch, the Brotherhood was still very strong with no more than 1 member dead. In your assumption (that Exodus was the real Mystique) you must also be assuming that the entire brotherhood decided it was the best course of action to just give up and throw Exodus under the bus. No one tried to help and save Exodus. No one. It was a fairly one sided lynch. I'll ask again, why wouldn't the brotherhood with their large number not save Exodus? If they knew that Exodus was going to show up civvie, why not save their team mate? Or at the very least defend the hell out of him? Why throw someone under the bus if they are going to flip civvie? Literally nothing is gained in this scenario. That lynch ended up 10 votes for Exodus and Sunfire got 3. Exodus actually voted for Shadowcat in that lynch. So, if Exodus really were Mystique, all that team had to do was have Exodus vote for Sunfire to make it 10-4 and then have the other team mates also vote for Sunfire. At least a couple of the Exodus voters had to be Brotherhood, so it wouldn't have been difficult to change the outcome of that lynch. So Sunfire would have been lynched and flipped civvie of course as we would later find out. Where is the risk in that scenario? People would have thought it was an obvious save of Exodus, you say? Even so, what is the risk? If people see that it was a save, they lynch Exodus the next day and guess what? Exodus flips civvie then too. There is absolutely ZERO risk in saving Exodus. So, why wasn't Exodus saved? Because he wasn't Mystique. He was Gambit.

So, then as soon as the lynch post comes up....and I do mean as soon as....Domino rushes in to role claim Gambit and call out Exodus as not really being Gambit. Exactly 8 minutes went by from the time the lynch poll went up to the time that Exodus made her role claim.

So, my theory goes like this. The Brotherhood figures out a way to try to completely take over the game discussion and future lynches. Shadowcat comes into the thread to drop her info and "expose" Exodus. You mention that about why would Shadowcat take that kind of risk when she is pretty damn sure that Exodus would flip civvie? Enter Domino aka Mystique to follow up Shadowcat's info drop with a role claim. That erases any risk Shadowcat would have had if she has someone to back her up like that. "See everyone? My info was correct. Exodus really was bad! The real Gambit is still alive!"

I'm not sure exactly why you have been calling this theory so crazy. If I compare mine to yours, mine looks way more probable than yours. Yours is basically rooted in the belief that the info drops have been completely legit and well intentioned. I don't see it....at all. Your theory assumes that the brotherhood made a terrible, god awful usage of the Mystique role. Mine assumes that the baddies used the Mystique role to it's max potential. I think mine is more likely.

linki x2

Ok, you've said her info was fake, but I don't recall you ever leading a serious lynch push against her. Which you should do, because if your theory is correct she is by necessity bad. (For contrast, I'm only tangetially related to that initial case. So I just find it strange you're all over me but not trying to get Shadowcat killed. I think it may be because I seem like an easier target.

I can see what you're saying about Shadowcat and Domino. You're neglecting to say one thing about that lynch: even Exodus himself didn't put up any defense. He was more or less like "Well, yeah, I got that info too, but I didn't really think I'd do anything about it...." He came off as shell-shocked to me.

If Exodus were bad: So do I think a baddie team could feel the same way in the face of a huge info dump? Yeah, I do. Info is not like any other kind of mafia case. The idea is it's irrefutable. I think that, even though they knew Exodus would look civ, it's entirely believable that they thought it was too risky to all vote exactly the same on that lynch poll. Keep in mind that, if they had, Shadowcat would also have flipped civ, which would have made them look hella bad, and they'd all be stuck with those incriminating votes right next to each other. I know I'm super paranoid about that kinda stuff when I'm bad. Not to mention her info would then indicate Exodus HAD to be bad, since she wasn't. You say that they misplayed it, but that's only your opinion. And more importantly, it's making a lot of assumptions about their strategy and emotional states that we have no way of verifying one way or the other, and it's assuming that they DON'T save Exodus, but you still say you think they should've.

I do think your theory looks more plausible than I did at first glance, I'll say that. I still don't find it likely, personally, but I'm glad to know where you're coming from.

I still don't get this, though: if your theory is correct, we NEED to lynch Shadowcat. That would conclusively prove or disprove it, since she isn't a seemer. Yet you've spent the 3.5 days since then going after me, when lynching me proves nothing about your theory. I'm civ, so even in the best case for you it proves only that I was mistaken, if indeed you are right, or that I was right if you're wrong.

This won't happen, but if I were to flip bad after you led a lynch on me, it wouldn't say anything about the initial case, just that I as an individual baddie did a good job using the situation. It wouldn't even incriminate Shadowcat, necessarily, because it's just as possible she's still not bad and you got hoodwinked, and since there's such a big baddie team, I just came in to play the other side of the debate. Not putting all your eggs in one basket and such. Does that make sense? You should definitely, only, relentlessly, be pushing for Shadowcat to be killed. Then we'll know for sure. But you're not doing that, and it weirds me out.

Linki: Yup, that. It would be poor play, and not because of Exodus' role but because of Shadowcat's.

Longshot wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:Hostest with the mostest: Can you tell me who tried to murder me the other night? Pretty please?

The attempt was the work of the Morlock Tunnels Maintenance Department, under the influence of a certain Apocalypse.

Well, my theory is out the window knowing it was Apocalypse. Maybe you're right and he (shaw) is indy Mikhail because you're right, he doesnt seem to care at all.

Banshee wrote:

Havok wrote: That lynch ended up 10 votes for Exodus and Sunfire got 3. Exodus actually voted for Shadowcat in that lynch. So, if Exodus really were Mystique, all that team had to do was have Exodus vote for Sunfire to make it 10-4 and then have the other team mates also vote for Sunfire. At least a couple of the Exodus voters had to be Brotherhood, so it wouldn't have been difficult to change the outcome of that lynch. So Sunfire would have been lynched and flipped civvie of course as we would later find out. Where is the risk in that scenario? People would have thought it was an obvious save of Exodus, you say? Even so, what is the risk? If people see that it was a save, they lynch Exodus the next day and guess what? Exodus flips civvie then too. There is absolutely ZERO risk in saving Exodus. So, why wasn't Exodus saved? Because he wasn't Mystique. He was Gambit.

See this part is still where you lose me... have you ever seen a mafia team actually position all of their members' votes on one player in a single lynch just to save a teammate?

Hawkeye wrote: Which brings me back to my good ol' bud, Spiral. I gave him a break because I know I acted douchey and we agreed to disagree on the civilian secrets issue, but his reaction after the failed lynch made me feel very intrigued. Spiral was the first person to vote for WQ on Day 6 after having agreed with one of my posts. He even understood my point better than WQ herself, which makes me suspect he DOES read my posts. After the results, he quickly tried to distance himself from both Polaris and I, and oddly enough, he succeeded. What's more, he suddenly went 180 on WQ, and back to dismissing every single thing I've posted WITHOUT offering any kind of argument whatsoever.

If anyone has any questions, I will gladly reply, if that does involve revealing PM content.

Hawkeye wrote:I will address a few a things if anyone cares enough to read and will reiterate others hoping to be more clear, because by the looks of it, some of you people's logic is so flawed, I am starting to believe it's on purpose and the sad thing is, there might be civilians who pay little attention to the game and go on believing it themselves.

I'm going back to Day 6. What part of 'IT WAS ME, HAWKEYE, WHO TRIED TO LYNCH WQ' don't you understand? It was not Magneto, not the Brotherhood, just ME. That was all I was allowed to reveal. The rest would require me to post PMs.I believe that might be against the rules. Why do I think there was no Brotherhood at work? Because of Polaris. If she is bad, she would not expose herself like that. Just think about it for a minute, if Polaris and I were bad, why in the name of Humanoid Danger would we risk lynching someone who WE KNEW would NOT flip Brotherhood, instead of going the safe way with either Havok or Rasputin and put all of you civs in our pockets one by one? Because that is not the case. I don't know if Polaris is bad or not, all I know is that the brotherhood was not involved in targeting WQ on Day 6. It was I because I genuinely believed she was bad. If you go back and read my posts, I had been eying her from the beginning of Day 6 in the thread. In my head however, it had been a while, except I did not have any evidence to build a case. Her reaction to the Night 5 events was what I saw as a slip. Then thanks to my good buddy Spiral, who was the first to vote for her (HAVOK, it was Spiral, not Shadowcat) and seeing that Shadowcat also expressed her desire to do the same, but ended up abandoning the idea, I voted for WQ, I can't remember if I switched from Havok or not, but the idea is that I voted for her and other things I can't discuss and was waiting for her to flip bad and get all the glory. It just so happened that Polaris decided to switch at the last minute, which increased the chances of her getting lynched.

I see I was targeted by Apocalypse and he's very mad. At least two wasted night kills. Boo hoo! Cry me a river! I don't know Longshot's alignment, but if he suggested that I was targeted by Apocalypse, he just made a common sense observation.

Longshot wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:Hostest with the mostest: Can you tell me who tried to murder me the other night? Pretty please?

The attempt was the work of the Morlock Tunnels Maintenance Department, under the influence of a certain Apocalypse.

Well, my theory is out the window knowing it was Apocalypse. Maybe you're right and he (shaw) is indy Mikhail because you're right, he doesnt seem to care at all.

Even night attempt on Rasputin, very similar circumstances in my case.

I also noticed that the discussion of the Horsemen is treated like some sort of novelty, when I tried to discuss this on Day 2 but nobody gave a damn. The only popular thing from my post was that I dared discuss Storm.

Which brings me back to my good ol' bud, Spiral. I gave him a break because I know I acted douchey and we agreed to disagree on the civilian secrets issue, but his reaction after the failed lynch made me feel very intrigued. Spiral was the first person to vote for WQ on Day 6 after having agreed with one of my posts. He even understood my point better than WQ herself, which makes me suspect he DOES read my posts. After the results, he quickly tried to distance himself from both Polaris and I, and oddly enough, he succeeded. What's more, he suddenly went 180 on WQ, and back to dismissing every single thing I've posted WITHOUT offering any kind of argument whatsoever.

If anyone has any questions, I will gladly reply, if that does involve revealing PM content.

Spiral wrote: Because your last minute vote switching makes me feel not good about you, and I think White Queen is Apocalypse and I think that it's useless to lynch her at the moment.

But nice to know that you think anyone who doesn't agree with you must not read your posts.

I'm so sick of people in this game vaguely insinuating that I'm not reading.

Havok wrote:The only thing that has made me hesitate on Shadowcat is the possibility that she misinterpreted this "info" on Exodus, and Domino and co. just ran with it after the Exodus lynch. I still think my theory is correct about Shadowcat being a brotherhood, but Polaris's recent insistence that Shadowcat is good has me a little nervous because I think after the last lynch it's obvious that Polaris is brotherhood. If I had to rank today's best bets for finding a baddie it would be 1. polaris 2. Hawkeye 3. Shadowcat

Havok wrote:oh and one more thing. About who ended up as the lynchee yesterday. The host said that the result was not a tie. I know that I did not end up with the most votes because if I had, I would not have survived a lynch. So that means either Rasputin or WQ ended up with the most votes. I find it unlikely that Rasputin ended up with the most because that would mean he survived both a NK and a lynch. And then there is WQ telling us that she survived a NK when it was obvious that it was a redirect onto someoen else. She then tells us that she would survive a lynch and I think it's pretty clear at this point that WQ is Apocalypse.

The Vision wrote:Mikhail, I'm a little surprised that you have me so high on your list of suspects. I've never attacked you the way others have, and I've explained my shifting feelings about everything in the game as best I can. I covered the Magneto stuff like crazy during that one lynch because I found myself suddenly cleared to post with like 90 minutes left in the lynch period, and I had a lot to say in a short time. And remember that that pulled votes off of a civ; me barrelling in like I did made no sense if I were bad, why even admit i could speak in that scenario? the lynch was going fine, from a baddie perspective. I've been clear that I think solving the Gambot issue is paramount… basically, I'm surprised, because it seems like a lot of what I've been saying is similar to what YOU'VE been saying, thus your suspicion baffles me. Also in the last lynch, with people switching votes to WQ etc. my vote was on a third party. Why would I waste my vote if the assumption is that the baddies were working so hard to get enough votes where they wanted them?

I know I've been siding with Havok, but I've had my reasons and I've mentioned several times that I'm not 100% sure of my thoughts there, but I'm comfortable with it still.

I think we need two things. We need to lynch a baddie to solve the Gambit question. And then we need to talk about Apocalypse. But you won't get any of that from eyeing me. I'm going to go back now to figure out who might be best.

The Vision wrote:So I don't think there is any doubt that shadow cat had that info, it's not fake. The question is whether she lied about it to pre-empt what she thought was an imminent such attack from Exodus.

IMO, yes a shadow cat would answer that question, of COURSE it would, but I don't like such ideas; the idea of lynching a player to find OUT if they are bad, is misguided. I do think we have to solve the Gambit question, but I feel like there has to be an answer somewhere in the thread.there are potentially very few of us civs left, so the idea of tossing one to the wolves for info isn't appealing.

Polaris wrote:

Havok wrote:The only thing that has made me hesitate on Shadowcat is the possibility that she misinterpreted this "info" on Exodus, and Domino and co. just ran with it after the Exodus lynch. I still think my theory is correct about Shadowcat being a brotherhood, but Polaris's recent insistence that Shadowcat is good has me a little nervous because I think after the last lynch it's obvious that Polaris is brotherhood. If I had to rank today's best bets for finding a baddie it would be 1. polaris 2. Hawkeye 3. Shadowcat

I've thought Shadowcat was good for several days now, and have even said so. I don't know why you're suddenly convinced that makes me bad.

Havok wrote:oh and one more thing. About who ended up as the lynchee yesterday. The host said that the result was not a tie. I know that I did not end up with the most votes because if I had, I would not have survived a lynch. So that means either Rasputin or WQ ended up with the most votes. I find it unlikely that Rasputin ended up with the most because that would mean he survived both a NK and a lynch. And then there is WQ telling us that she survived a NK when it was obvious that it was a redirect onto someoen else. She then tells us that she would survive a lynch and I think it's pretty clear at this point that WQ is Apocalypse.

Was that a fake info drop or a real info drop. I hope you appreciate the humor based on what's happened so far this game.

Hawkeye wrote:

Spiral wrote: Because your last minute vote switching makes me feel not good about you, and I think White Queen is Apocalypse and I think that it's useless to lynch her at the moment.

But nice to know that you think anyone who doesn't agree with you must not read your posts.

I'm so sick of people in this game vaguely insinuating that I'm not reading.

Okay, let's try and discuss this.

I agree that trying to lynch WQ is useless. It's frustrating because now she can get away with anything, but that's the way it is, and I'm trying to ignore her. Have you followed my post sequence on Day 6? On the first day of the cycle I said I did not like her reaction to surviving a night kill and that I would be looking into it. You should know it because you replied to it. I return the next day making that post with which you agreed. However, it was an even cycle, so I advised people to try and not spread the vote, including you, who had already voted for WQ. Then while I was posting that, SC says she's down for a WQ vote. So, because I was not going to vote for Rasputin, and was not comfortable with a Havok vote either I switched, hoping that more people would follow. Then I realized with all the redirected powers from the previous night that if Magneto was still alive, there was a high chance that his target was redirected as well and took a chance which ended in WQ being the main candidate for that lynch. She survived, and it's very likely that she's Apocalypse. I keep posting this over and over and nobody seems to care because they don't even bother addressing it, so I assume they're not reading or they are reading it but choose to ignore it on purpose because it clashes with their personal agenda.

And to address your last point. I understand you are sick of people insinuating that, I was straightforward about it, but do you see why some people assume that? It's the way you choose to reply to some posts. Not all of them, I've seen you take your time and reply properly. I'm talking about my case because I'm mostly familiar with this one. I try to address everything in a post whether I agree with it or not. You don't do that. I usually make extensive posts, and in your replies, you ignore the core of the post and either pick on something that I don't think it's worth picking on especially since you don't explain why, or like last time go 'lol you're so bad' without explaining why or taking anything that I've posted into consideration. That's why I assume you're not reading. But apparently it's not the case. So then it really makes me wonder. Why do you choose to ignore things?

Linki tits - I was just about to post how you're not reading what I'm posting, but yay! And to answer your question: Yes! That's what I've been trying to say for a few days now. And keep in mind that it's not reduced solely to maths. The rest of the explanation requires discussing PM content. Read this reply to Spiral about the sequence of events.

Havok wrote:

Polaris wrote:

Havok wrote:The only thing that has made me hesitate on Shadowcat is the possibility that she misinterpreted this "info" on Exodus, and Domino and co. just ran with it after the Exodus lynch. I still think my theory is correct about Shadowcat being a brotherhood, but Polaris's recent insistence that Shadowcat is good has me a little nervous because I think after the last lynch it's obvious that Polaris is brotherhood. If I had to rank today's best bets for finding a baddie it would be 1. polaris 2. Hawkeye 3. Shadowcat

I've thought Shadowcat was good for several days now, and have even said so. I don't know why you're suddenly convinced that makes me bad.

Havok wrote:oh and one more thing. About who ended up as the lynchee yesterday. The host said that the result was not a tie. I know that I did not end up with the most votes because if I had, I would not have survived a lynch. So that means either Rasputin or WQ ended up with the most votes. I find it unlikely that Rasputin ended up with the most because that would mean he survived both a NK and a lynch. And then there is WQ telling us that she survived a NK when it was obvious that it was a redirect onto someoen else. She then tells us that she would survive a lynch and I think it's pretty clear at this point that WQ is Apocalypse.

Was that a fake info drop or a real info drop. I hope you appreciate the humor based on what's happened so far this game.

That isn't why I think you are bad.

and what are you talking about info drop? All I said was I wouldn't have survived if I had been the one up for a lynch. Looks to me like you are trying to make something out of nothing. lol

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:I know, Viz. That's part of why I'm so into finding new suspects. I keep running circles in my head saying you seem to be considering everything so carefully and you're so reasonable you must be civ, and then thinking, "That's exactly what he'd want me to think!" So yeah, I am suspicious of you, but I'm not sure I'd be down to lynch you just yet.

White Queen wrote:I am going to a ball game today (seats in the private White Queen section are awesome),tailgating before and after, and am not sure how late I will be. So I am now placing my vote for Polaris. She was the first to vote for Rasputin, and then switched at the last minute to me. It is my opinion that that was done in order to have the correct numbers to lynch me via the power of Magneto.

I realize she has made alternative explanations, but I, very frankly, do not believe them. If the civvies want to have a chance in this game, and believe it or not, that is very much what I want, we have to stick together. I think there were several suspicious shenanigans going on in that lynch (she was only one of three to make a similar vote move in the last minutes), but I think Polaris' vote switch was the stinkiest of them all, taking into account that the baddie team would have known who the three targets were.

Toodles fair subjects

Hawkeye wrote:I will address a few a things if anyone cares enough to read and will reiterate others hoping to be more clear, because by the looks of it, some of you people's logic is so flawed, I am starting to believe it's on purpose and the sad thing is, there might be civilians who pay little attention to the game and go on believing it themselves.

I'm going back to Day 6. What part of 'IT WAS ME, HAWKEYE, WHO TRIED TO LYNCH WQ' don't you understand? It was not Magneto, not the Brotherhood, just ME. That was all I was allowed to reveal. The rest would require me to post PMs.I believe that might be against the rules. Why do I think there was no Brotherhood at work? Because of Polaris. If she is bad, she would not expose herself like that. Just think about it for a minute, if Polaris and I were bad, why in the name of Humanoid Danger would we risk lynching someone who WE KNEW would NOT flip Brotherhood, instead of going the safe way with either Havok or Rasputin and put all of you civs in our pockets one by one? Because that is not the case. I don't know if Polaris is bad or not, all I know is that the brotherhood was not involved in targeting WQ on Day 6. It was I because I genuinely believed she was bad. If you go back and read my posts, I had been eying her from the beginning of Day 6 in the thread. In my head however, it had been a while, except I did not have any evidence to build a case. Her reaction to the Night 5 events was what I saw as a slip. Then thanks to my good buddy Spiral, who was the first to vote for her (HAVOK, it was Spiral, not Shadowcat) and seeing that Shadowcat also expressed her desire to do the same, but ended up abandoning the idea, I voted for WQ, I can't remember if I switched from Havok or not, but the idea is that I voted for her and other things I can't discuss and was waiting for her to flip bad and get all the glory. It just so happened that Polaris decided to switch at the last minute, which increased the chances of her getting lynched.

I see I was targeted by Apocalypse and he's very mad. At least two wasted night kills. Boo hoo! Cry me a river! I don't know Longshot's alignment, but if he suggested that I was targeted by Apocalypse, he just made a common sense observation.

Longshot wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:Hostest with the mostest: Can you tell me who tried to murder me the other night? Pretty please?

The attempt was the work of the Morlock Tunnels Maintenance Department, under the influence of a certain Apocalypse.

Well, my theory is out the window knowing it was Apocalypse. Maybe you're right and he (shaw) is indy Mikhail because you're right, he doesnt seem to care at all.

Even night attempt on Rasputin, very similar circumstances in my case.

I also noticed that the discussion of the Horsemen is treated like some sort of novelty, when I tried to discuss this on Day 2 but nobody gave a damn. The only popular thing from my post was that I dared discuss Storm.

Which brings me back to my good ol' bud, Spiral. I gave him a break because I know I acted douchey and we agreed to disagree on the civilian secrets issue, but his reaction after the failed lynch made me feel very intrigued. Spiral was the first person to vote for WQ on Day 6 after having agreed with one of my posts. He even understood my point better than WQ herself, which makes me suspect he DOES read my posts. After the results, he quickly tried to distance himself from both Polaris and I, and oddly enough, he succeeded. What's more, he suddenly went 180 on WQ, and back to dismissing every single thing I've posted WITHOUT offering any kind of argument whatsoever.

If anyone has any questions, I will gladly reply, if that does involve revealing PM content.