The Syndicate

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:59 pm the solution is to adopt an obama 'then perish' meme attitude in all circumstances

yes

vote for michelle and get her to chop me

if I survive, we are just going to be doing this again tomorrow and I have no interest in being a part of it

this happens every time I endgame and nobody ever listens to me because they think their fancy wishy washy play is going to get the solve and then they find out that keeping "idk that syn guy is an option" until the end wasn't helpful after all

kill me now

resolve the problem now

any other choice you make just increases uncertainty in following phases

killing me is good for town

do it

there is no path here that sees me cleared unless you waste a track, and I will not be clutch in the final stretch

remove me, verify dizzy and michelle, reassess

if dizzy tries another "we gotta keep syn around actually :- ) and you definitely shouldn't track me" campaign I am going to consider him outed and be done with it

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:15 pm if I survive, we are just going to be doing this again tomorrow and I have no interest in being a part of it

this happens every time I endgame and nobody ever listens to me because they think their fancy wishy washy play is going to get the solve and then they find out that keeping "idk that syn guy is an option" until the end wasn't helpful after all

Who is your top scum read Syn?

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

Voting Michelle to prove power

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:58 pm @Michelle can you ask if you are allowed to use ur power to force a no chop please? Just so we know if we can

Just want to make sure @Michelle has seen this, as I think it would be good to know

there he goes fishing again

(joke)

(kinda)

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:45 pm there he goes fishing again

i don't get it

i laughed

it's not really important

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:37 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:15 pm if I survive, we are just going to be doing this again tomorrow and I have no interest in being a part of it

this happens every time I endgame and nobody ever listens to me because they think their fancy wishy washy play is going to get the solve and then they find out that keeping "idk that syn guy is an option" until the end wasn't helpful after all

Who is your top scum read Syn?

Barring any revelations, it's just a process of elimination for me now

You can see that as lazy, and it might be, but there is no strong reason to deviate from it (yet)

the plan I laid out a page or two ago will go a long way toward uncovering deception, as it clears you and Dizzy

I town-read Dizzy, but I also think Dizzy is best positioned to be a wolf who's had us fooled all along

with you and Dizzy hard cleared, with LC protected, with Alison town-siding, you're in a good position to win by attrition if not a slam dunk

chop you today, deflect onto me
clear dizzy, clear you, LC remains alive, Alison remains alive

if the wolf shoots Alison, it will kill tutuu instead because of her accepting the gambit (and tutuu should accept to ensure Alison's continued loyalty)

killing tutuu removes your tinfoil, so the wolf won't want to shoot there

so Alison is safe, LC is safe

Dizzy can be shot if he's not the wolf, but that still clears you because his block would have prevented w!michelle from shooting

you can be shot, but for what purpose?

that leaves kyle, tutuu, JPIC, and hyena for containing the wolf and the victim

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:19 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:37 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:15 pm if I survive, we are just going to be doing this again tomorrow and I have no interest in being a part of it

this happens every time I endgame and nobody ever listens to me because they think their fancy wishy washy play is going to get the solve and then they find out that keeping "idk that syn guy is an option" until the end wasn't helpful after all

Who is your top scum read Syn?

if the wolf shoots Alison, it will kill tutuu instead because of her accepting the gambit (and tutuu should accept to ensure Alison's continued loyalty)

I think only votes get diverted, not night actions

oh boy here i go fishing again

alison can choose between votes or night actions

she chose votes for dizzy

she can choose night actions for tutuu

@Alison?

I could choose night actions for tutuu, yes.

please choose night actions for tutuu

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:14 pmdizzy claims a 1-shot protector from all. we know this role exists coz wilgy peeked michelle and received this role

it was allegedly used on nutella on n3. martin is a jailkeeper (standard variation) who was notifeid that his roleblocked on nutella n3 failed, but his protection didnt fail

no other mech on dizzy afaik

It's not alleged, cause it's confirmed by Martin.
I also used powers to confirm both jpic and Michelle as town today. Pretty sure they are both just town, Michelle's role plus she's outside her scum range anyway.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:43 pm please choose night actions for tutuu

I promise to campaign against your yeet especially hard if you do so

@Alison

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:20 pmDizzy was publicly known to be a roleblocker. He had to roleblock someone. It doesn't matter anyway since Michelle's claim can be tested.

Only you knew I was roleblocker.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:24 pm wait

even if we agree to No Chop

we can force michelle to redirect it to No Chop

right?

so we should always vote michelle and have her confirm her power?

if her power is confirmed i think shes always town

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

@Michelle Is this possible? Maybe you answered already.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:28 pm But also, Dizzy would still have to account for his roleblock the next day. So he would be outed if he used it to stop a doctor protecting people. And because I'd be told my attempts to offer a bargain failed, they'd know I was roleblocked and Dizzy was the one with the roleblock.

Not that it matter, but I don't know why you're invested in trying to make it how such and such could be scum when they are clearly town.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:30 pm i dunno why dizzy roleblocked jpic instead of syn. why? @Dyslexicon

I told jpic at the start of the day. I read in both ISOs one hour before the deadline, found jpic's D1 and D2 to be bad in relation to flipped scum, and I also thought jpic would be the one that was the likeliest to kill me if he was in fact mafia. But yeah, I almost picked Syn or Hyena too.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:38 pm I feel like the number of people who kill HK should be a pretty narrow margin right? am I wrong in thinking HK was widely town read? why kill HK over someone with a more threatening role that would be harder to yeet?

Yeah....

I don't think TSP could double protect either. LC would be the most logical kill IF you knew Alison couldn't double protect. Unless you are Alison or LC.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:21 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:43 pm please choose night actions for tutuu

I promise to campaign against your yeet especially hard if you do so

@Alison

ok

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:21 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:20 pmDizzy was publicly known to be a roleblocker. He had to roleblock someone. It doesn't matter anyway since Michelle's claim can be tested.

Only you knew I was roleblocker.

No, I openly said I'd offer you roleblocker and you accepted in the thread.

Out of interest, why dis you think i would kill you?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:23 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:28 pm But also, Dizzy would still have to account for his roleblock the next day. So he would be outed if he used it to stop a doctor protecting people. And because I'd be told my attempts to offer a bargain failed, they'd know I was roleblocked and Dizzy was the one with the roleblock.

Not that it matter, but I don't know why you're invested in trying to make it how such and such could be scum when they are clearly town.

I'm invested because tutuu has offered to help me fulfil my win condition in exchange for a good faith effort at scumhunting to obtain a joint win. That at the very least implies that I should be checking the mechanics. My perspective is unbiased; I have every reason to keep you alive because you are my bargainee. As I mentioned, I have zero interest in flipping you today or tomorrow because you are my bargainee; my focus is on the possibility of Michelle being scum, because she is a non-bargainee.

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:38 pmwell, you see, I am not awake from midnight to 8 AM

I never trust a person with a sane sleeping schedule!

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:31 pmI'm invested because tutuu has offered to help me fulfil my win condition in exchange for a good faith effort at scumhunting to obtain a joint win. That at the very least implies that I should be checking the mechanics. My perspective is unbiased; I have every reason to keep you alive because you are my bargainee. As I mentioned, I have zero interest in flipping you today or tomorrow because you are my bargainee; my focus is on the possibility of Michelle being scum, because she is a non-bargainee.

Ok, good then.

But Michelle's not scum.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:28 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:38 pm I feel like the number of people who kill HK should be a pretty narrow margin right? am I wrong in thinking HK was widely town read? why kill HK over someone with a more threatening role that would be harder to yeet?

Yeah....

I don't think TSP could double protect either. LC would be the most logical kill IF you knew Alison couldn't double protect. Unless you are Alison or LC.

I intentionally did not bring up the fact that I could double protect until I had to because if it was public information the mafia would just shoot LC on the night I am not protecting him, and I don't want my bargainees to die. Nobody else noticed it and I am inclined to believe the mafia just overlooked it in the swamp of mech info.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:30 pm Out of interest, why dis you think i would kill you?

Because you seemed to understand I was confirmed town and I don't think you would think you'd ever be able to yeet me, and was definitely aware I had a power from Alison. I honestly didn't feel Hyena or Michelle really cared to understand why I wouldn't be yeetable for example, and wouldn't see me as much as a threat.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:35 pmI intentionally did not bring up the fact that I could double protect until I had to because if it was public information the mafia would just shoot LC on the night I am not protecting him, and I don't want my bargainees to die. Nobody else noticed it and I am inclined to believe the mafia just overlooked it in the swamp of mech info.

Yeah, that could be. Speaking just for me, I would always ask if docs could double protect, but that's me.

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:40 pm is it because i'm not panicking and trying to blow up the POE every fifteen minutes? lack of neuroticism is a scum tell now?

No. It's a FEELING. I'm certainly not trying to blow up the PoE either. In fact, my reading now is that everyone but Alison is town here. Or that is at least a real possibility for me. I don't understand who's scum. I came to you or LC

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:53 pm alright you goobers stop voting for no-chop and just deflect michelle's chop onto me

Syn. Who is mafia? It's definitely not Michelle. It's definitely not Kyle. It's definitely not jpic. Is it Tutu or LC who got green checked? Is it Hyena?

keep reading and find out

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:06 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:51 am @Long Con Why did you decide to track Tutu btw?

To honour Tim's wishes. And because I could have seen her being a big focus based on the previous day.

Ok. She was also green checked though =p

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:42 pm keep reading and find out

Excite!

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:44 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:42 pm keep reading and find out

Excite!

it's gonna blow you away

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:21 pmOn a teammate? Michelle's the deepwolf of the team in this hypothetical. Why not save herself?

LC plz

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:22 pm if dizzy tries another "we gotta keep syn around actually :- ) and you definitely shouldn't track me" campaign I am going to consider him outed and be done with it

Lol.

I'm still leaning no yeet, yes. Track me all you want.

I don't know why I am the only one worried about Alison. This is the reason.

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:44 pmit's gonna blow you away

I didn't really get it tbh? Did you try to argue me and Michelle as scum or separately?

Anyhow. I don't really scum read anyone in thread right now. We would not know if all mafia are eliminated. If we no yeet, we are guaranteed to confirm at least one more town in the ones we are still unsure on, and maybe even two. Because we have track and roleblock.

Nobody seems worried about Alison, but I am. Sue me.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:30 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:21 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:20 pmDizzy was publicly known to be a roleblocker. He had to roleblock someone. It doesn't matter anyway since Michelle's claim can be tested.

Only you knew I was roleblocker.

No, I openly said I'd offer you roleblocker and you accepted in the thread.

My mistake. I made sure not to say it, but I forgot you did.

I don't know if my point is coming across.

I have a really hard time finding anyone scum here.
I will never get there if it's Kyle, jpic, Tutu or Michelle. I don't think it's Hyena. My "biggest" suspects are Syn and LC, and they aren't even that big suspects.

One of the best things I can come up with is like "Maybe LC is godfather and lied about Ted's targeting and that's why Wilgy got my role. His choices for targets have been kind of weird." And that doesn't sound all that convincing to me. But I should probably ISO if I get the time tomorrow.

I know I've made my worry about Alison clear. I know Alison must find that annoying. I get it. I'm just trying to look out for town. But if everyone in this game is like, ok, let's just trust her and see what happens, then whatever. If we lose, lolk. If Alison wins and we get stuck with there actually being a mafia here, then great for Alison and we'll probably win too.

---

But please listen to this:

I'm pretty sure there's a way we can keep Alison on the bay AND keep confirming town/outing mafia.

Look. Alison said she protected me tonight, so she can definitely protect LC this night.

- I can roleblock someone. Let's say Syn. I announce who I block. If I die, that person is not scum.
- LC can track someone. Let's say me or Hyena.

If I die the bargainee/others ratio is 4/4 if Tutu doesn't accept.
Let's say both Syn and Hyena comes out clean from the night. THEN would you wonder if Alison is in fact a threat?

Like, how many confirmed town and in how many ways do we have to have before we start wondering if the confirmed non-town may be the one we should worry about?

AND - If Syn or Hyena or whoever we want to target comes out as outed mafia because they were tracked or blocked, then huzzah! We have the outed mafia. Alison has been telling the truth. We accept her bargain so that she reaches her wincon BEFORE we chop the last scum, since she's been so helpful all game. We can then literally just do a bargain with Alison so she wins and then yeet the last scum. Everyone wins!

It's literally just a matter of caution. And it's because I can't for the life of me say I have any one scum read that I have a lot of confidence in. And I had the same feeling last day.

I know that post is long, but please read it and consider it.

That's me tho. I'm just presenting the idea that makes the most sense to me. We can be cautious about Alison AND out mafia/confirm town and the same time, without screwing up for Alison if she's telling the truth. We literally have two free checks. Why would we yeet before getting those when, in my opinion, this could be dangerous.

I'm with everyone, but this is the thing that makes the most sense to me.

Alison has no incentive to protect anyone if we're going to refuse bargains. Critical flaw in your golden plan.

I know I'm not the one making the nightkills. Your concern is understandable but there are a lot of things pointing to the fact that I'm not a hostile 3P (I could rehash them here if you want but I think you already know them). I was on board with your plan when it looked like it was a mech lock since I trust this player list to give me my win con if I townside and they out the last mafia. The problem is that I'm no longer confident your plan outs the last mafia because of the possibility of 2 mafia and yes, you yourself being mafia. I know you are adamant that you are towncleared and are annoyed by scumreads on you, but I have the same feeling when you point fingers at how I could be dangerous despite a plethora of other factors saying otherwise.

If the game is harder than just "no exe and wrap it up, game is mech locked" then I have to complete my win con ASAP or I risk throwing away the win. If there is 2 mafia it's not a mech lock. Nor is it a mech lock if you're mafia. I know you are confident it is a mech lock but I don't see the game the same way you do so I have to play around the possibility that the game drags on and my bargainees start dropping dead or people turn on me out of paranoia, which means I want to accomplish my win con as soon as possible. This has been my goal from the start. That's why I don't support a no exe now.