King of the Hill Mafia

[Creature]

Bleh I hate how the falcon45ca wagon suddenly came up when we were previously on Porscha. I guess there's a lot more going on within falcon45ca being pushed as one of the two top wagons over Porscha than the Alison v falcon45ca final wagons yesterday.

[Lilypetal]

yeah i moved off falcon and onto porscha with boq just so i wouldn't be a part of it lmao

I specifically told you to not move

sorry mom :/

[MacDougall]

Spoiler: show

I don't think Seanzie or Falcon are the correct exes for today. Mac says he wants to shield Porscha, that she has a volume tell, whatever.

So we just turbo Jack or Rondo yeah? Because nobody else is remotely close to a good option.

Why not Seanzie and Falcon? They both voted you for no apparent reason? I would expect you to be entirely fine with them dying?

There is NO REASON TO AVOID STRONG PLAYERS DAY 1 IF THEY ARE STRONG THEY WILL WIN GAME IF NOT THEY ARE WOLVES god what a dumb dumb dumb line of reasoning get it together

Yeah no porscha is right.

Not really you're kind of both wrong here. It's not really about who is strong or not. Ego doesn't factor. It's just that given its mountainous there are certain slots that are inclined to self resolve due to their rep/presence/threat to wolves. If you take away whether you think they're good or not there are always players in a game that if they aren't mafia will be a priority mafia kill before the game gets to final x.

Mischopping players like this is not a great thing for town because it essentially is one fewer night kills the mafia team have to make.

Given the way I have like at least 5 of you just blowing smoke up my ass I'm probably dying n1 even if my reads suck simply because the mafia won't be able to miselim me. (On that note don't really sheep my legacy).

The optimal play is to just coalesce behind those players that wolves are inclined to kill and let them have their way. If the game gets to a deep state and any of them are alive and it feels bad they are probably a wolf.

In this game I'd suggest Alison is usually in this category but given how much momentum their wagon has wolves would (if she is town) now view her as a possible miselim so she won't die. Which is a trap for the mafia probably because Alison even when they look like a possible miselim often just reveals and buries a wolf and fucks them over. But the temptation will be there.

Ftr the 2 most likely n1s here would be me and SPF. Arogame would be probably next.

@MacDougall

These posts are made after you said you feel falcon is no longer an optimal kill. The first one is explicitly trying to convince me that falcon is a hit if I am town knowing that I am doubtful he is the correct exe D1. The second one is trying to convince Porscha and Neon that voting out strong players D1 is a bad idea, which again points back to falcon.

You may have paid lip service to the idea falcon is town, but the fact is you started the wagon, you cased him, you never shifted your vote off him and even after saying he is a bad exe you continue to try to lowkey push for him.

You are the one arguing in bad faith. I came into today wondering if you were town who was being kept alive because you had bad reads, asked you about your EOD play, and you responded by accusing me of misrepresenting you and trying as hard as you can to dodge responsibility for the town exe. If I had to pick my CW and legacy right now I would pick you.

The first one is me pointing out that in a day 1 split such as what we saw it is almost always w/t. Which I stand by, which is why I am now pushing you. You are using very manipulative descriptions to paint what I did as something I did not.

If you are town, I would strongly advise you to stop viewing everything I am doing as bad faith because it is not going to end well for the town and you are misplaying hard by your own standards.

Tell me why you tried to instigate a flashwagon when it's your number one pet peeve as a town. How do you reconcile that?

How do you reconcile the fact that we had a conversation in MU champs spec not two days ago about how it's always necessary to resolve the day 1 wagons in mountainous games and you 100% agreed.

How do you reconcile the fact that half the game wanted you dead day 1, if you weren't scummy to begin with?

The likes of Creature and SPF were out here prostetlyisng, talking about how everyone was only suspicious of you because "strong player fear" while you were being openly wolfy, pushing someone hard who has a volume tell and playing against your personal mafia playing ethos nearly the entire day.

[Alison]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

I'm going to use Alison's own logic against her. She is hard scumsiding by pushing me for verifiably bad reasons. She did that several times to me yesterday as well and is blatantly lying about what has occurred in the game. She is also the counterwagon to the d1 townflip. If she flips town it is on her for pushing me for bad reasons that she could easily have sought to verify.

Also as Seanzie pointed out she tried to mandate a flashwagon at EOD when she is a major exponent of them being the worst thing in the game.

Also she knows she is a day 2 must resolve because I had an outside of game conversation about this exact thing 24 hours before this game begun and she knows it. So the fact that she is even fighting it at all goes against her own town process.

So Alison, by her own standards, is playing like a wolf.

You are so full of shit about the flash wagon thing. I thought Jack/Rondo had more votes than they did which would make them not a flash wagon, I checked the vote count, saw that they were at 0, and immediately before anyone else responded said "no, actually, I just realized they're at 0 votes, and I'm not flash wagoning this late into the day". Trying to pass that off as "mandating a flash wagon" is incredibly bad faith.

You want to resolve me on D2, resolve me. There are 48 hours between now and EOD and trying to shut me down for trying to solve the game in the meantime is incredibly scummy.

[Creature]

Porscha, Creature, Falcon all town. Going back to my meta of only being able to find townies.

Bleh was Jack nightkilled for speaking against the status quo?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Also I don't make gamer kills, I literally just got banned on MU for screaming at my wolf partner trying to make a gamer kill.

I think a "maintain status quo" kill is in your wheelhouse yeah?

Mac kill would maintain status quo (and it should be obvious we are not wolves together) and get rid of someone who had a deathtunnel on me. Or Boq/SPF, which is a move that wouldn't change many people's reads and would achieve pretty much the same result. If I want to maintain status quo as a wolf I just shoot a consensus townread or strong player and call it SPK. There is no reason for me to do otherwise, and given that the status quo involves half the game scumreading me I don't think I'd want to keep it stagnant as a wolf anyway.

Jack was at minimum fine with killing you. Depends who your partners are but I dont see why scumAlison would always be against a jack kill

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

I'm going to use Alison's own logic against her. She is hard scumsiding by pushing me for verifiably bad reasons. She did that several times to me yesterday as well and is blatantly lying about what has occurred in the game. She is also the counterwagon to the d1 townflip. If she flips town it is on her for pushing me for bad reasons that she could easily have sought to verify.

Also as Seanzie pointed out she tried to mandate a flashwagon at EOD when she is a major exponent of them being the worst thing in the game.

Also she knows she is a day 2 must resolve because I had an outside of game conversation about this exact thing 24 hours before this game begun and she knows it. So the fact that she is even fighting it at all goes against her own town process.

So Alison, by her own standards, is playing like a wolf.

You are so full of shit about the flash wagon thing. I thought Jack/Rondo had more votes than they did which would make them not a flash wagon, I checked the vote count, saw that they were at 0, and immediately before anyone else responded said "no, actually, I just realized they're at 0 votes, and I'm not flash wagoning this late into the day". Trying to pass that off as "mandating a flash wagon" is incredibly bad faith.

You want to resolve me on D2, resolve me. There are 48 hours between now and EOD and trying to shut me down for trying to solve the game in the meantime is incredibly scummy.

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

[Alison]

Also, last thing before I go, I really believe SPF was the towniest in that EoD. She seemed to have this townie demeanor of "riling up the troops" which I myself try to accomplish as a town leader and she seemed to grasp that role.

That earlier post about the game state being bad "though I disagreed" she seemed to be very emotional and wanted everyone and all her towns to vote together and unite, which I thought was townie. It was also illustrated in her rightessnous to vote on who she believed was the highest hit and tried to get others on board too.

Additionally, I disagree with Alison's take that the NKA points to SPF just because Jack was suspecting SPF. From your perspective, Jack was also suspecting you, so does that make you mafia? lol

I mean Jack was suspecting people and he died. Obvious conclusion is that the people who he was suspecting killed him. I know it's not me. So... logically, it's the other person who he suspected, which is SPF. I don't have to consider myself mafia to come to that conclusion.

[MacDougall]

Porscha, Creature, Falcon all town. Going back to my meta of only being able to find townies.

Bleh was Jack nightkilled for speaking against the status quo?

Jack was night killed by you so why don't you tell us?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I kinda want to resolve porscha first cause I don't think her and Alison are ever paired

[MacDougall]

I kinda want to resolve porscha first cause I don't think her and Alison are ever paired

Okay but why Porscha first?

[Alison]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

[Lilypetal]

[VOTE: arogame123] aubergine

sorry for the rand

[Creature]

Porscha, Creature, Falcon all town. Going back to my meta of only being able to find townies.

Bleh was Jack nightkilled for speaking against the status quo?

Jack was night killed by you so why don't you tell us?

If I was in charge of the nightkill I would've prob killed you. That is, unless you're a wolf with me, but then you would be the one choosing the nightkill presumably. Or possibly Seanzie, he also feels like a player to make absurd-looking nightkills.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I kinda want to resolve porscha first cause I don't think her and Alison are ever paired

Okay but why Porscha first?

More likely to be mafia imo

[MacDougall]

Explain what made you townread Creature in the middle of D1. You had him as scum because you thought his early posts were scummy, then abruptly changed your mind on him, then scumread him again for his EOD.

What was the impetus to townread him in between?

I retracted my read on him because I reread Spiritfarer mafia day 1 and saw similarities between both of our play. I was scumreading him on day 1 of Spiritfarer but Creature was town (and had better reads than me). It was a tactical attempt to change the flow of the game and override my own instictive read on him, and I decided to sheep him for a while.

Creature then did openly wolfy shit again and tried to pin the impending mischop on me before it even happened.

[Seanzie]

Creature had Falcon as town early in the game for "he wouldn't push strong players" reasons. When I started pushing Falcon Creature pretty well just dropped that to point out that Falcon was exhibiting some tell ... something about "has a wolf agenda behind who he is tunneling". And went from having Falcon as a top townread, to voting him out to save Alison while doing everything he could to gaslight people into thinking that I was the sole perpetrator behind a mischop he knew was about to occur.

Then come day 2, both he and Alison are out here again pushing the idea that I am suspicious because I pushed Falcon over when;

1. Me pushing Falcon over on day 1 isn't scummy for me
2. Falcon was scummy enough to go over in a split vote
3. We got a split day 1 which is optimal day 1 play and as I pointed out it didn't matter to me which of them went over anyway
4. Creature was the co instigator of the Falcon wagon to begin with

At least Creature isn't straight up lying about it though. Alison is literally just making things up again. Much like she did yesterday.

Do you take into account that Creature is very squarely in their town meta though? Like maybe they're faking, but there are strong hints of town!Creature that I feel scum!Creature has a hard time faking, such as his slightly scatterbrain paranoia.

Also, Creature definitely will sheep people he thinks are good, so them following you on Falcon doesn't do much for me.

Finally, everybody's thinking the jack kill could have come from you, you yourself even said it was meant to frame you, so Creature considering you is not surprising or AI. Furthermore, if scum do hope a kill might frame someone, do you think the level 1 play is to jump out of the gate attacking the framed, or is it to see how townies act, and then act accordingly? I think the answer is usually to wait and see, so unless you think Creature is running a very specific play going against the strong natural instinct to wait, in order to attack you, a player he respects enough to not really want to go toe-to-toe with, you suggesting that Creature is part of a frame on you seems to lack depth of thought on the issue.

[Lilypetal]

i am pretty sure it's aro here but i need to look at his day 1

would not be surprised if he's in the scum team though

[Alison]

Explain what made you townread Creature in the middle of D1. You had him as scum because you thought his early posts were scummy, then abruptly changed your mind on him, then scumread him again for his EOD.

What was the impetus to townread him in between?

I retracted my read on him because I reread Spiritfarer mafia day 1 and saw similarities between both of our play. I was scumreading him on day 1 of Spiritfarer but Creature was town (and had better reads than me). It was a tactical attempt to change the flow of the game and override my own instictive read on him, and I decided to sheep him for a while.

Creature then did openly wolfy shit again and tried to pin the impending mischop on me before it even happened.

What were the similarities exactly?

[MacDougall]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

[Creature]

Didn't Jack end up townreading Mac as legacy before dying? How's that a frame kill on Mac?

[Lilypetal]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

hmmmm

you would look at me and neon? two players who heavily TR'd you enough to sheep ur falcon vote, but both got cold feet right at the end? do you think that's indicative of scummy behavior?

[Creature]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

Ftr I was voting Porscha over falcon EOD until I finally had to switch to falcon45ca to save Alison and prevent a tie.

[MacDougall]

Explain what made you townread Creature in the middle of D1. You had him as scum because you thought his early posts were scummy, then abruptly changed your mind on him, then scumread him again for his EOD.

What was the impetus to townread him in between?

I retracted my read on him because I reread Spiritfarer mafia day 1 and saw similarities between both of our play. I was scumreading him on day 1 of Spiritfarer but Creature was town (and had better reads than me). It was a tactical attempt to change the flow of the game and override my own instictive read on him, and I decided to sheep him for a while.

Creature then did openly wolfy shit again and tried to pin the impending mischop on me before it even happened.

What were the similarities exactly?

Well if you must know I actually forgot Creature was town in Spiritfarer at first and went into the game thread to find evidence by which to bury him to SPF. But then I went in there, realised he was town, and saw that in both games SPF was shielding Creature from me during the early parts of the game. So my retraction was mostly just resigning to the fact that maybe SPF has a better read on Creature than me.

[Creature]

Did Porscha hit her volume tell or whatever it was?

[MacDougall]

Didn't Jack end up townreading Mac as legacy before dying? How's that a frame kill on Mac?

"Mac kills Jack to lock his legacy in place"

[Alison]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

Mafia Creature sits at EOD, looks at the player list. He knows Mac is town (which I am taking for granted here since you obviously won't help me find worlds where you are mafia), Alison is town, and falcon is town. Alison is wagoned against Porscha. Mac is pushing falcon. I think Creature only steps in to do anything if Porscha is a wolf buddy and he wants to make sure the wagons are Alison/Falcon and not Alison/Porscha. If Mac/Alison/Porscha/falcon are all town then he does not have incentive to do anything besides eat a bag of popcorn and do his usual gloom and doom spiel about how we are voting out townies. Ergo Creature can only be scum with Porscha, ergo we should always go Porscha first before Creature.

[MacDougall]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

hmmmm

you would look at me and neon? two players who heavily TR'd you enough to sheep ur falcon vote, but both got cold feet right at the end? do you think that's indicative of scummy behavior?

Blowing smoke up my ass while I counterwagon a town and save a mafia teammate isn't a very long bow lily. Any reasonably competent wolf knows that townreading me is the easiest way to deal with me.

[Seanzie]

Didn't Jack end up townreading Mac as legacy before dying? How's that a frame kill on Mac?

Mafia sometimes kill town who have incorrect reads/legacys in hopes that living townies will listen to dead townies, ergo one could make a case a scum!Mac team would make that kill to bolster Mac's position in the thread.

[Seanzie]

Boq/Alison/Nanook?

[Alison]

I don't think the tinfoil against SPF is actually that bad this game because the gamestate was terrible and chaotic and I perceive that she would be more likely to step in to restore order to the town. I guess she kinda tried but it was ineffectual and perhaps it was intentionally ineffectual. The nightkill points to her as I have argued. If I wanted to reach a bit I could say she has TMI on her Alison read as well.

I agree that Lily and Neon should be forever POE'd if Mac is town... actually I think Neon is very likely to be hard outed as wolves with SPF if he is.

[MacDougall]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

Mafia Creature sits at EOD, looks at the player list. He knows Mac is town (which I am taking for granted here since you obviously won't help me find worlds where you are mafia), Alison is town, and falcon is town. Alison is wagoned against Porscha. Mac is pushing falcon. I think Creature only steps in to do anything if Porscha is a wolf buddy and he wants to make sure the wagons are Alison/Falcon and not Alison/Porscha. If Mac/Alison/Porscha/falcon are all town then he does not have incentive to do anything besides eat a bag of popcorn and do his usual gloom and doom spiel about how we are voting out townies. Ergo Creature can only be scum with Porscha, ergo we should always go Porscha first before Creature.

Porscha town = Alison wolf and Creature town?
Porscha wolf = Alison town and Creature wolf?

[Lilypetal]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

hmmmm

you would look at me and neon? two players who heavily TR'd you enough to sheep ur falcon vote, but both got cold feet right at the end? do you think that's indicative of scummy behavior?

Blowing smoke up my ass while I counterwagon a town and save a mafia teammate isn't a very long bow lily. Any reasonably competent wolf knows that townreading me is the easiest way to deal with me.

its ur lucky day mac because i am not a competent wolf

[MacDougall]

Didn't Jack end up townreading Mac as legacy before dying? How's that a frame kill on Mac?

Mafia sometimes kill town who have incorrect reads/legacys in hopes that living townies will listen to dead townies, ergo one could make a case a scum!Mac team would make that kill to bolster Mac's position in the thread.

For the record I would kill SPF in all worlds if I was mafia and she was not.

[MacDougall]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

hmmmm

you would look at me and neon? two players who heavily TR'd you enough to sheep ur falcon vote, but both got cold feet right at the end? do you think that's indicative of scummy behavior?

Blowing smoke up my ass while I counterwagon a town and save a mafia teammate isn't a very long bow lily. Any reasonably competent wolf knows that townreading me is the easiest way to deal with me.

its ur lucky day mac because i am not a competent wolf

Whether or not I believe that to be the case, Neon is one.

[Lilypetal]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

hmmmm

you would look at me and neon? two players who heavily TR'd you enough to sheep ur falcon vote, but both got cold feet right at the end? do you think that's indicative of scummy behavior?

Blowing smoke up my ass while I counterwagon a town and save a mafia teammate isn't a very long bow lily. Any reasonably competent wolf knows that townreading me is the easiest way to deal with me.

its ur lucky day mac because i am not a competent wolf

Whether or not I believe that to be the case, Neon is one.

yeah idk her alignment she just seems towny rn

[Alison]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

[MacDougall]

There is also the wildcard of Sparkly Buckle. Who cannot be left resolved before lylo.

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: Boquise] aubergine

Alright wolves seem to have at least one player who would do a gamer kill. I have Boquise and Seanzie in mind.

I also feel like I could be wrong on my arogame123 townread the most.

@Creature - why on earth is boq your first thought for who would make a gamer kill in this position? what does wolf!boq gain from making a gamer kill with this type of gamestate? he was widely POE'd yesterday and nearly went over, and jack dying today would accomplish nothing other than eliminate a viable mischop and increase boq's odds of getting pushed on even more

[MacDougall]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

I find it difficult to comprehend you even humouring the idea of me being mafia. I am playing in my most billboard of town meta.

[Alison]

There is also the wildcard of Sparkly Buckle. Who cannot be left resolved before lylo.

He would fit decently as the X and I think he is enough of a wild card to make a kill like Jack purely to troll the town.

[Creature]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

Mafia Creature sits at EOD, looks at the player list. He knows Mac is town (which I am taking for granted here since you obviously won't help me find worlds where you are mafia), Alison is town, and falcon is town. Alison is wagoned against Porscha. Mac is pushing falcon. I think Creature only steps in to do anything if Porscha is a wolf buddy and he wants to make sure the wagons are Alison/Falcon and not Alison/Porscha. If Mac/Alison/Porscha/falcon are all town then he does not have incentive to do anything besides eat a bag of popcorn and do his usual gloom and doom spiel about how we are voting out townies. Ergo Creature can only be scum with Porscha, ergo we should always go Porscha first before Creature.

Even then I remember I planted my vote on Porscha and only switched to falcon when it was pretty clear the final wagons were going to be you v falcon.

Might not mean much because I'm a compulsive busser, but still I prob had plenty of good reasons to just stay on falcon45ca instead of constantly switching back to Porscha.

[Lilypetal]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

can you explain why?

[Alison]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

I find it difficult to comprehend you even humouring the idea of me being mafia. I am playing in my most billboard of town meta.

I kinda agree with you that you probably would have just shot SPF if you were mafia. Which is why I think if you are mafia your most likely partner is SPF. I don't really disagree with your solve presuming I am town either and that is why I am currently examining worlds assuming you are town. I am not lock clearing you just for posting townie when you are objectively deathtunnelling a townie D2 (even if we want to gloss over the falcon stuff D1) and I know you are capable of getting away with that as a wolf. If you are town then trust that I will get there on you by the end of today.

[Creature]

Didn't Jack end up townreading Mac as legacy before dying? How's that a frame kill on Mac?

Mafia sometimes kill town who have incorrect reads/legacys in hopes that living townies will listen to dead townies, ergo one could make a case a scum!Mac team would make that kill to bolster Mac's position in the thread.

This looks like 4D chess. I don't see how someone would go check the mislynch bait player who mysteriously died over a lot better options, see their legacy townread on Mac and go like "yeah mac is wolf based on this". I think the most incriminating thing against Marco is him not dying last night.

[MacDougall]

Thing about your rationale about Porscha needing to go over before Creature is that it's heavily biased to the idea that you are town.

If you view a difference check between Porscha/Alison (which I think Alison does, and I think most do), then the same rationale that Alison is using to describe Creature as wolf ONLY with Porscha, also applies to Alison. Ergo Creature is a mafia in worlds where either of them are mafia. He is only town when both of them are town.

@Alison

[Alison]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

can you explain why?

You voted me for no reason, you cleared Porscha for no reason. You cleared Neon for... some reason, but you still cleared her, which means you would be a natural fit for both Porscha and Neon teams. Your EOD vote was extremely bad from a game theory point of view and would make the most sense if you genuinely wasn't sure who would go over, didn't particularly care, and just wanted to avoid being on a town wagon at EOD.

You have repped a strong arogame scumread. Why?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Ftr Lilypetal moved to Porscha, Neon moved to Alison and NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME moved to falcon45ca last EOD.

Pretty sure NANOOK did so to avoid a tie. Lilypetal I thought was towny and I already cited reasons somewhere. Neon is the most interesting switch.

I'm the most interesting in many ways

[Alison]

Thing about your rationale about Porscha needing to go over before Creature is that it's heavily biased to the idea that you are town.

If you view a difference check between Porscha/Alison (which I think Alison does, and I think most do), then the same rationale that Alison is using to describe Creature as wolf ONLY with Porscha, also applies to Alison. Ergo Creature is a mafia in worlds where either of them are mafia. He is only town when both of them are town.

@Alison

Yes Mac I do my solving assuming I am town lol. And knowing I am town I believe that Creature is mafia if Porscha is mafia, and Creature is town if Porscha is town. Which is exactly the same conclusion you came to just with the added assumption that I am town.

[Creature]

[VOTE: Boquise] aubergine

Alright wolves seem to have at least one player who would do a gamer kill. I have Boquise and Seanzie in mind.

I also feel like I could be wrong on my arogame123 townread the most.

@Creature - why on earth is boq your first thought for who would make a gamer kill in this position? what does wolf!boq gain from making a gamer kill with this type of gamestate? he was widely POE'd yesterday and nearly went over, and jack dying today would accomplish nothing other than eliminate a viable mischop and increase boq's odds of getting pushed on even more

Alright I think Boquise is more because I already suspected him yesterday than the nightkill thing. Though I also feel like wolf!Boquise could've easily made a weird kill to throw off town.