The Syndicate

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Would Olaf be immune to Klaus's role check? The gravedigger seems fairly weak and the conditional double voter, while strong, could give away herself and a teammate if she actually uses the double vote. I consider the roleblocker the best Klaus's target in this mafia.

The other mafia don has SECRETS, potentially protecting her from this power as well as a goon that is semi immune to targeting, also potentially immune to Klaus's check. The punisher and misdirector are better choices, imo, especially the punisher.

I don't care much about the cult leader. I don't see BTSC for them. Aside from causing problems when they approach their win condition and just want to lynch a non cultist (when they don't even know their teammates?), the cult doesn't really seem like a huge threat. I'm willing to entertain alternative opinions on this faction, though, as saying that I don't care about lynching the cult feels wrong to me.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Thanks, DF.

Same for me, usually, but I didn't want to assume.

Would the cult vanillaize its recruits? Can mafia members be cultified?

DFaraday wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Thanks, DF.

Same for me, usually, but I didn't want to assume.

Would the cult vanillaize its recruits? Can mafia members be cultified?

All players are recruitable, and still retain all abilities, as well as any BTSC they started with. Kills remain with the team, so if a cult-recruited baddie's mafia teammates are all dead or recruited, the team is eliminated and that player does not have a kill.

Dom wrote:Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Scotty wrote:Also- Elo, if you are the recruiter again, feel free to recruit me night 1 like last time. It seems to be a winning combo

Dom wrote:

Quin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Zebra, Faraday, Long Con, Snow Dog, and you. I think those are the only ones in that game that were here discussing the subject. I will table my thoughts on Snow Dog and try to give him a fresh start in my book. I do seriously hate I wasted all that time on it though. I wasn't even going to read all those pages. I was just going to skim through as Day 0 is usually just fluff. But then it seemed important and noteworthy, so I read and commented, read and commented. Waste.

Where was Faraday discussing this?

Derp.

Was he discussing it in B T S C???????????????

lol

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Zebra, Faraday, Long Con, Snow Dog, and you. I think those are the only ones in that game that were here discussing the subject. I will table my thoughts on Snow Dog and try to give him a fresh start in my book. I do seriously hate I wasted all that time on it though. I wasn't even going to read all those pages. I was just going to skim through as Day 0 is usually just fluff. But then it seemed important and noteworthy, so I read and commented, read and commented. Waste.

Where was Faraday discussing this?

Derp.

Was he discussing it in B T S C???????????????

Dom wrote:Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Dom wrote:

Quin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Zebra, Faraday, Long Con, Snow Dog, and you. I think those are the only ones in that game that were here discussing the subject. I will table my thoughts on Snow Dog and try to give him a fresh start in my book. I do seriously hate I wasted all that time on it though. I wasn't even going to read all those pages. I was just going to skim through as Day 0 is usually just fluff. But then it seemed important and noteworthy, so I read and commented, read and commented. Waste.

Where was Faraday discussing this?

Derp.

Was he discussing it in B T S C???????????????

lol

I don't understand.

Long Con wrote:

Dom wrote:Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Explain... sounds like he could recruit baddies and help finish the game earlier in the Civs favour. I guess it works in reverse if he recruits Civs?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:The image is basically short for "Could you fucking not?"

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:The image is basically short for "Could you fucking not?"

I've always assumed that Quin's avatar was a relative of his...

Long Con wrote:

Dom wrote:Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Explain... sounds like he could recruit baddies and help finish the game earlier in the Civs favour. I guess it works in reverse if he recruits Civs?

sig wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Dom wrote:Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Explain... sounds like he could recruit baddies and help finish the game earlier in the Civs favour. I guess it works in reverse if he recruits Civs?

He could recruit baddies yes, which hurts them. However they also need to be the largest team and he only has a 50% shot at recruiting people. So Ishmael would in theory be actively working agaisnt the civs since we're the largest faction and he needs most of us dead to win.

Golden wrote:Quin's been pantsed!

I shall never look at him with side-eye the same way again. But at least I'm glad that he's going to Disneyland.

I'm totally phoning this in, but I haven't read much yet. I intend to today, so apologies in advance for me commenting on things that may have already passed others by.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

sig wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Dom wrote:Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Explain... sounds like he could recruit baddies and help finish the game earlier in the Civs favour. I guess it works in reverse if he recruits Civs?

He could recruit baddies yes, which hurts them. However they also need to be the largest team and he only has a 50% shot at recruiting people. So Ishmael would in theory be actively working agaisnt the civs since we're the largest faction and he needs most of us dead to win.

Does not compute.

A dead townie or a dead mafia member both reduce total players by 1.

A recruited townie or a recruited mafia member both reduce non cult players by 1 and increase cult players by 1.

The math is the same. The only reason the cult would have to specifically work against the town is if the town is about to eliminate the last scummer, ending the game early and causing the cult to auto lose.

sig wrote:the second part of that message was it is more likely for civs to be hurt by the cult then mafia.

Long Con wrote:

sig wrote:the second part of that message was it is more likely for civs to be hurt by the cult then mafia.

Because there ARE more Civs than Mafia?

Quin wrote:To add onto your role analysis, LC - Klaus's role doesn't mention any restrictions as to when he can use his role. Just how many times he can use it. Unless he's a risk taker, I'd recommend that he figure out what he wants to do early so as to not waste an opportunity.

sig wrote:Voting east it has Philadelphia and me, so its the best part of the country. (Just ignore that we also have DC and NYC on the east coast) ;P

Long Con wrote:Ok then, maybe some role analysis will be fun!

Violet Baudelaire – Violet is a brilliant inventor. She will create a new device every night and send it to a player of her choice. This looks very fun, I wonder if she can have full creative input about the device? I know we could think of some very useful devices. How about a device that, in addition to its primary purpose, also feeds info back to Violet about the user? Just one idea. Push the boundaries, Violet!

Klaus Baudelaire – Klaus loves to read, and is constantly learning. Twice in the game Klaus can send in a role and discover which player has that role. Reverse role-checker. Let's talk, people - which role would be most beneficial for Klaus to know? Should he learn who are powerful Civvies in order to form a super-Civ squad? Or automatically discover, like, the two baddie team leaders and watch them for a while before pushing their lynch?

Ishmael – Ishmael is the leader of a peaceful island community. Every night he will attempt to recruit a player. He will have a 50% chance of bringing them into his fold. Ishmael's team will win if they outnumber the other living players at any point. He will also survive the first NK and lynch attempt on his life. Another possible foil for catching Esme Squalor. Do we want Ishmael dead? If Ishmael's team wins, does everyone else lose and the game ends? Or do they just achieve their win condition and we keep going?

I agree on the Violet role, it looks like it has potential if used properly.
I think Klaus looking at a high powered civ and a high powered baddie would be beneficial. At the very least investigate Olaf, since he can't be cop checked. So it will give the civs an edge.
Ishmael is dangerous we want him gone, he is basically a cult leader who can steal players from the civs, I assume it will only work on civvies and not mafia members, like most roles that can recruit. I'd say the bottom line is he needs enough civs dead or converted to win, so he won't be trying to help anyone win but himself or might even align with the mafia.

Nachomamma8 wrote:Klaus role seems insanely broken but I don't see why he would do anything except investigate two baddies.

Dom wrote:Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

Dom wrote:LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

LoRab wrote:

Dom wrote:LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

Because of my natural distrust of purely neutral roles, especially when it's a 2 person neutral team that just has to survive to win. You've known me long enough to know how I feel about this (and to know that it's because of how may have once played such a role to win the game for the mafia). Also, they have a block and a protect to use every night.

Ishmael's team has a 50% chance of recruiting each night, and at least early on, it's kind of a crap shoot what roles they get. At the start, it's 13 civs to recruit v 8 baddies v 3 neutral (he can't recruit himself). So, almost even odds of getting a non-civ than a civ. It, in part, depends on who the first successful recruit is.

In all, it may likely have more to do with my innate prejudicial suspicion towards neutral roles than anything else.

LoRab wrote:

Dom wrote:LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

Because of my natural distrust of purely neutral roles, especially when it's a 2 person neutral team that just has to survive to win. You've known me long enough to know how I feel about this (and to know that it's because of how may have once played such a role to win the game for the mafia). Also, they have a block and a protect to use every night.

Ishmael's team has a 50% chance of recruiting each night, and at least early on, it's kind of a crap shoot what roles they get. At the start, it's 13 civs to recruit v 8 baddies v 3 neutral (he can't recruit himself). So, almost even odds of getting a non-civ than a civ. It, in part, depends on who the first successful recruit is.

In all, it may likely have more to do with my innate prejudicial suspicion towards neutral roles than anything else.

Arren Kae - After being exiled from the Jedi Order, she has decided to join her former apprentice, Revan, in the fight against the Mandalorians.

How could I NOT kill my teammates and go rogue? Good times. Pretty sure my abilities were secret while the game was in play.

Long Con wrote:

LoRab wrote:

Dom wrote:LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

Because of my natural distrust of purely neutral roles, especially when it's a 2 person neutral team that just has to survive to win. You've known me long enough to know how I feel about this (and to know that it's because of how may have once played such a role to win the game for the mafia). Also, they have a block and a protect to use every night.

Ishmael's team has a 50% chance of recruiting each night, and at least early on, it's kind of a crap shoot what roles they get. At the start, it's 13 civs to recruit v 8 baddies v 3 neutral (he can't recruit himself). So, almost even odds of getting a non-civ than a civ. It, in part, depends on who the first successful recruit is.

In all, it may likely have more to do with my innate prejudicial suspicion towards neutral roles than anything else.

I would say that the threat of Ishmael to the Civs has been vastly overstated. Heck, given the majority of past games, we'll probably end up lynching a Civ today and practically evening the score between Civs and non-Civs before Ishmael even gets a chance to try.

Which role was that, LoRab? I recall my own neutral roles better than others. I do remember one special role that just begged me to betray everyone and grab power and win. I was the Jedi Exile:


Revanchists (4):
The Revanchists are a small group of Jedi who believe it would be better for the Jedi Order to get involved in the war and protect the Republic from the Mandalorians. They have BTSC and get one kill per "night."
Revan - The only thing stronger than the force in this jedi knight is his willpower. If any of the Revanchists are lynched, he will kill one of the people who voted for them.

Alek Squinquargesimus - Second in command of the Revanchists.

Jedi Exile - Not much is known about this young jedi, but she or he will start out powerless and gain abilities as the game progresses.

Powers will be gained pending the survival of each night for the first four nights and are as follows:

1. A secret, extra vote for each voting period.
2. One pardon to be used on any person on any day.
3. The ability to deflect one's night power onto another person.
4. The ability to kill... with a catch: The Exile must kill his or her fellow Jedi before being allowed to kill others and will assume the role usually referred to as the "serial killer." If the Jedi Exile chooses not to kill his or her team mates and assume this win condition, then all of his or her powers will be forfeited.

Arren Kae - After being exiled from the Jedi Order, she has decided to join her former apprentice, Revan, in the fight against the Mandalorians.

How could I NOT kill my teammates and go rogue? Good times. Pretty sure my abilities were secret while the game was in play.

Spacedaisy wrote:Ok, so I read everything. I voted east because I wanted to and am satisfied to see it winning.

That was a lot of pages of discussing Snow Dog's statement about not reading his role card. I thought not reading one's role card would be a foolish personal decision but it wouldn't be a scum tell in my mind. And I didn't find anything particularly useful in the back and forth to help identify any scum either, it seemed a lot more about playstyle influenced conversation than anyone trying to manipulate anything. I think the people who we should look at are probably the people who were reading it and not commenting or committing to any stance. They are the ones much more likely to be scum, because scum love letting civs go after each other over stupid playstyle arguments, it saves them a lot of work.

Just my two cents. Going to work now. Third shift, fun fun fun...

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Ok, so I read everything. I voted east because I wanted to and am satisfied to see it winning.

That was a lot of pages of discussing Snow Dog's statement about not reading his role card. I thought not reading one's role card would be a foolish personal decision but it wouldn't be a scum tell in my mind. And I didn't find anything particularly useful in the back and forth to help identify any scum either, it seemed a lot more about playstyle influenced conversation than anyone trying to manipulate anything. I think the people who we should look at are probably the people who were reading it and not commenting or committing to any stance. They are the ones much more likely to be scum, because scum love letting civs go after each other over stupid playstyle arguments, it saves them a lot of work.

Just my two cents. Going to work now. Third shift, fun fun fun...

Spacedaisy's point of view here mirrors my own.

Dom wrote: I know about this natural distrust.
I thought you'd attribute some level of distrust to Ishamel for this reason as well.

Long Con wrote:

LoRab wrote:

Dom wrote:LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

Because of my natural distrust of purely neutral roles, especially when it's a 2 person neutral team that just has to survive to win. You've known me long enough to know how I feel about this (and to know that it's because of how may have once played such a role to win the game for the mafia). Also, they have a block and a protect to use every night.

Ishmael's team has a 50% chance of recruiting each night, and at least early on, it's kind of a crap shoot what roles they get. At the start, it's 13 civs to recruit v 8 baddies v 3 neutral (he can't recruit himself). So, almost even odds of getting a non-civ than a civ. It, in part, depends on who the first successful recruit is.

In all, it may likely have more to do with my innate prejudicial suspicion towards neutral roles than anything else.

I would say that the threat of Ishmael to the Civs has been vastly overstated. Heck, given the majority of past games, we'll probably end up lynching a Civ today and practically evening the score between Civs and non-Civs before Ishmael even gets a chance to try.

Which role was that, LoRab? I recall my own neutral roles better than others. I do remember one special role that just begged me to betray everyone and grab power and win. I was the Jedi Exile:


Revanchists (4):
The Revanchists are a small group of Jedi who believe it would be better for the Jedi Order to get involved in the war and protect the Republic from the Mandalorians. They have BTSC and get one kill per "night."
Revan - The only thing stronger than the force in this jedi knight is his willpower. If any of the Revanchists are lynched, he will kill one of the people who voted for them.

Alek Squinquargesimus - Second in command of the Revanchists.

Jedi Exile - Not much is known about this young jedi, but she or he will start out powerless and gain abilities as the game progresses.

Powers will be gained pending the survival of each night for the first four nights and are as follows:

1. A secret, extra vote for each voting period.
2. One pardon to be used on any person on any day.
3. The ability to deflect one's night power onto another person.
4. The ability to kill... with a catch: The Exile must kill his or her fellow Jedi before being allowed to kill others and will assume the role usually referred to as the "serial killer." If the Jedi Exile chooses not to kill his or her team mates and assume this win condition, then all of his or her powers will be forfeited.

Arren Kae - After being exiled from the Jedi Order, she has decided to join her former apprentice, Revan, in the fight against the Mandalorians.

How could I NOT kill my teammates and go rogue? Good times. Pretty sure my abilities were secret while the game was in play.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Ok, so I read everything. I voted east because I wanted to and am satisfied to see it winning.

That was a lot of pages of discussing Snow Dog's statement about not reading his role card. I thought not reading one's role card would be a foolish personal decision but it wouldn't be a scum tell in my mind. And I didn't find anything particularly useful in the back and forth to help identify any scum either, it seemed a lot more about playstyle influenced conversation than anyone trying to manipulate anything. I think the people who we should look at are probably the people who were reading it and not commenting or committing to any stance. They are the ones much more likely to be scum, because scum love letting civs go after each other over stupid playstyle arguments, it saves them a lot of work.

Just my two cents. Going to work now. Third shift, fun fun fun...

Spacedaisy's point of view here mirrors my own.

So, who are those people?

Long Con wrote:One counterpoint I would make is that it was just Day 0, so it's not as strong a viewpoint as it would be were it a later, meatier game day.

Epignosis wrote:What exactly is not as strong a viewpoint?

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:What exactly is not as strong a viewpoint?

I mean, it was a shallow debate to begin with... discussing the various factors involved with someone not reading their role PM. 'Stronger' would be about voting records, accusations, rainbow lists, interaction-analysis... when people are discussing those kinds of things, looking at those who dance around having a stance is something that I agree with. Not commenting on the Snow Dog thing overly much is not as red flaggable to me.

I see your point about MM. As someone who was also in Monkey Island, I don't think it was such a bad thing to watch and see what reactions came of it - better than jumping in and saying "Hold on y'all, it was a joke based on Wilgy's Monkey Island play!", but worse than discussing something that moves the game forward more. As I said before, though, I don't expect much to come from it.

I think it was Snow Dog's responsibility to decide when it was time to reveal the truth, since he's the one that planted the seed.

Glorfindel wrote:I've just had to endure a week of near heat-wave temperatures and as a consequence of my now oft-repeated threats to move to Tasmania to escape this intolerable Queensland heat, I'm voting south!