The Syndicate

Ricochet wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Rico, where have you landed on this L/Light vs Normal debate?

Hardly keeping my brain cells from not popping, in terms of following said debate. Undecided, otherwise. I haven't heard from others if L's checking wouldn't put him in an advantage or at least create a balance of somd sort.

I'd say we don't know enough about how L's percentages are determined to know if this is true or not. Although I do like to think L must have some way to use this option to his advantage, even if he himself is not at the top of his baddie detecting game.

I'm slightly confused why DH believes half of all players alive will be included in the L/Light selections. Isn't it just half of the players who vote? How can we be certain all players will vote every time (even with the participation rule being enforced)?

So, yea - reading the rest of the thread hasn't really changed my mind.

I agree with SVS's point about a less astute player being stuck with the list making. While I disagree that she is a less astute player (actually I imagined myself in that role and that should scare everyone as much as it did me. I'm the most nub player ever.)

I'm having a hard time seeing why the L/Light option provides *more* information in a game ripe with potential manips to begin with. Instinctively it feels like it's adding more potential confusion tbh.

I'm going with straight up lynch.

Also - YAY! for non-switchable votes!

Ricochet wrote:I'm slightly confused why DH believes half of all players alive will be included in the L/Light selections. Isn't it just half of the players who vote? How can we be certain all players will vote every time (even with the participation rule being enforced)?

I understood it the same way DH did.

MP07 wrote:7) L and Light Influenced Lynch - Every player casts a public vote; however, not every player's vote counts. L secretly determines which half of the players' votes will count and which half will not count. Light does the same. The players that appear on both "count" lists have heavily weighted votes. Players on only one "count" list have a normal vote. Players who do not appear on either list will not have their votes counted.

Ricochet wrote:I'm slightly confused why DH believes half of all players alive will be included in the L/Light selections. Isn't it just half of the players who vote? How can we be certain all players will vote every time (even with the participation rule being enforced)?

The way I read it, L and Light pick players whose votes will count, not votes that count after the fact.

So L or Light could choose that players who don't even vote are the ones whose votes will count

It also depends when they get to choose. Do they get to choose one time at the beginning for the rest of the game? Do they choose each night before the lynch period? Do they get to choose at any time?

Have any of these questions been answered already?

In any case , the L/Light option will NOT give the thread more information. It centralizes the information and puts it into the hands of the leaders of two teams. It is balanced, probably, and would definitely be fun, but a normal lynch is the safest and most reliable option, no question.

I wonder how our votes are weighted for this Day 0 poll. It would be extremely devious of MP to have already applied one of the options to the vote itself.

bea wrote: Also - YAY! for non-switchable votes!

definitely a relief, switchable votes was not an experiment that made for fun mafia imo

linki - llama I am assuming we all get regular votes today, I don't think sockface is quite that evil

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

bea wrote: Also - YAY! for non-switchable votes!

definitely a relief, switchable votes was not an experiment that made for fun mafia imo

linki - llama I am assuming we all get regular votes today, I don't think sockface is quite that evil

Agreed about the non-switchable votes.

And I know. I am still slightly making fun of people for excessive speculation.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

bea wrote: Also - YAY! for non-switchable votes!

definitely a relief, switchable votes was not an experiment that made for fun mafia imo

linki - llama I am assuming we all get regular votes today, I don't think sockface is quite that evil

I liked that you qualified that with the word "quite"

But DEAR LORD MAN!!! DO YOU NEVER LEARN!????1!! DON'T CHALLENGE SOCKFACE TO BE A MORE EVOL HOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *hides*

I do if I'm cohosting.

I have seen MP kill 9 in one day. He's ruthless.

I still have nightmares about the presents and that damn santa hat......

hahaha fair enough. I don't think I was in that game

I went with the normal vote. All of the other options seem the same to me, they equate to random. I'm all for doing things a different way, occasionally, but I wouldn't want to be trapped into a style of voting for the entire game that provides me with no info. I'm one of the less astute, probably the least astute among you.

In the end, I think the L/Light lynch is the best option. While we run the risk of some unfortunate results in the early game, I think the extra information to be provided by interpreting voting weight patterns will be worth it in the long run. So locking in my vote now.

Hello everyone. I'm very excited to be playing this game. Death Note is one of my favorite shows.

I went with the L/Light influenced voting option. My reasoning is that it is the more fun option. Normal lynches are for boring people who are boring. This option also adds another level of information gathering to keep everyone active and participating.

I know nothing makes me want to participate more than being called boring~

If boring = civ, then I don't see a problem with it.

On the flipside, exciting doesn't mean bad, and I like excitement.

Normal lynch it is. *votes*

I will go with the normal-type lynch, after all. I find the concept of the L/Light-type currently smothered a bit by the multiple reasonings and angles, but much of both sides' arguments are reasonable. I still think it would have been a very intriguing concept to work with, in case it would have been imposed by the Host, but maybe that's just it: contrary to a Host-designed voting system, this is more of a choice for the players to make and it could indeed have certain downsides. Actually this whole conversation today could also be a way for players of certain alignment to try to obtain the voting type they find more advantageous, but I didn't pay attention to this detail so far.

@Zomberella, re the earlier conversation. Boomslang and Ace = exactly the type of potential baddie L/Light voters I had in mind in this post. They've both come in, made vague statements about how it's a superior option without making any effort to add to the discussion or address the counter-arguments in any meaningful way. It's low effort choice making, and the fact that people are willing to come in and vote against a normal lynch in that style makes me think either 1) they're bad and want to fly low or 2) They work as fantastic examples as the kind of people I think having as L could potentially screw everything up. I don't mean 2) in a mean way, I just mean that if L/Light wins, L has to deep enough into the discussion so people know what that player is thinking, without doing it such a way that it becomes obvious who they are. Otherwise, there is no useful information to be learned for the other civvies, because everything would be essentially random from their perspective.

Hey, sorry for not being here earlier.

As much as the L/light options sounds like a fun and tempting thing to try out, the points against it, brought by others seem very true.

I would also like to add, if it hasn't been said already, cause I admit I skimmed, that not only will we be putting too much trust in one person , but this person will barely be able to voice his opinions honestly, because if for some reason MP decides to share whose votes were chosen, it will make it easier to figure out who L is (assuming he picks those he seems to trust on the thread).

So I think I'll go with the regular lynch

boo wrote:@Zomberella, re the earlier conversation. Boomslang and Ace = exactly the type of potential baddie L/Light voters I had in mind in this post. They've both come in, made vague statements about how it's a superior option without making any effort to add to the discussion or address the counter-arguments in any meaningful way. It's low effort choice making, and the fact that people are willing to come in and vote against a normal lynch in that style makes me think either 1) they're bad and want to fly low or 2) They work as fantastic examples as the kind of people I think having as L could potentially screw everything up. I don't mean 2) in a mean way, I just mean that if L/Light wins, L has to deep enough into the discussion so people know what that player is thinking, without doing it such a way that it becomes obvious who they are. Otherwise, there is no useful information to be learned for the other civvies, because everything would be essentially random from their perspective.

Nailed it. This + Rob's post are the number one reasons to look closely at L/Light voters in the next few days

boo wrote:@Zomberella, re the earlier conversation. Boomslang and Ace = exactly the type of potential baddie L/Light voters I had in mind in this post. They've both come in, made vague statements about how it's a superior option without making any effort to add to the discussion or address the counter-arguments in any meaningful way. It's low effort choice making, and the fact that people are willing to come in and vote against a normal lynch in that style makes me think either 1) they're bad and want to fly low or 2) They work as fantastic examples as the kind of people I think having as L could potentially screw everything up. I don't mean 2) in a mean way, I just mean that if L/Light wins, L has to deep enough into the discussion so people know what that player is thinking, without doing it such a way that it becomes obvious who they are. Otherwise, there is no useful information to be learned for the other civvies, because everything would be essentially random from their perspective.

There are five pages of people arguing the pros and cons of both options. I'm not going to rehash all that just to justify my personal preference. I like to have fun when I play games. The Light/L option is the most fun. Thus I voted for it. There are no other motives for my vote. Don't over think it, we're only on Day 0.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

boo wrote:@Zomberella, re the earlier conversation. Boomslang and Ace = exactly the type of potential baddie L/Light voters I had in mind in this post. They've both come in, made vague statements about how it's a superior option without making any effort to add to the discussion or address the counter-arguments in any meaningful way. It's low effort choice making, and the fact that people are willing to come in and vote against a normal lynch in that style makes me think either 1) they're bad and want to fly low or 2) They work as fantastic examples as the kind of people I think having as L could potentially screw everything up. I don't mean 2) in a mean way, I just mean that if L/Light wins, L has to deep enough into the discussion so people know what that player is thinking, without doing it such a way that it becomes obvious who they are. Otherwise, there is no useful information to be learned for the other civvies, because everything would be essentially random from their perspective.

Nailed it. This + Rob's post are the number one reasons to look closely at L/Light voters in the next few days

Choo Choo.

AceofSpaces wrote:

boo wrote:@Zomberella, re the earlier conversation. Boomslang and Ace = exactly the type of potential baddie L/Light voters I had in mind in this post. They've both come in, made vague statements about how it's a superior option without making any effort to add to the discussion or address the counter-arguments in any meaningful way. It's low effort choice making, and the fact that people are willing to come in and vote against a normal lynch in that style makes me think either 1) they're bad and want to fly low or 2) They work as fantastic examples as the kind of people I think having as L could potentially screw everything up. I don't mean 2) in a mean way, I just mean that if L/Light wins, L has to deep enough into the discussion so people know what that player is thinking, without doing it such a way that it becomes obvious who they are. Otherwise, there is no useful information to be learned for the other civvies, because everything would be essentially random from their perspective.

There are five pages of people arguing the pros and cons of both options. I'm not going to rehash all that just to justify my personal preference. I like to have fun when I play games. The Light/L option is the most fun. Thus I voted for it. There are no other motives for my vote. Don't over think it, we're only on Day 0.

Lynching baddies is fun too.

AceofSpaces wrote:

boo wrote:@Zomberella, re the earlier conversation. Boomslang and Ace = exactly the type of potential baddie L/Light voters I had in mind in this post. They've both come in, made vague statements about how it's a superior option without making any effort to add to the discussion or address the counter-arguments in any meaningful way. It's low effort choice making, and the fact that people are willing to come in and vote against a normal lynch in that style makes me think either 1) they're bad and want to fly low or 2) They work as fantastic examples as the kind of people I think having as L could potentially screw everything up. I don't mean 2) in a mean way, I just mean that if L/Light wins, L has to deep enough into the discussion so people know what that player is thinking, without doing it such a way that it becomes obvious who they are. Otherwise, there is no useful information to be learned for the other civvies, because everything would be essentially random from their perspective.

There are five pages of people arguing the pros and cons of both options. I'm not going to rehash all that just to justify my personal preference. I like to have fun when I play games. The Light/L option is the most fun. Thus I voted for it. There are no other motives for my vote. Don't over think it, we're only on Day 0.

Yes, and later on when you decide to vote for people in lynches you could use the same exact excuse to try and justify not offering your own thoughts on why you vote the way you do. Which would mean you are either a baddie or not someone I think anyone would want to see being L if the option you chose wins. Therefore, I think you're either a baddie or a civvie who really has no business choosing the option you did since if you were placed in the position you're voting to put another person in the position of, you've already justified not using that position to the civvie advantage.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Nailed it. This + Rob's post are the number one reasons to look closely at L/Light voters in the next few days

You suggest that the L/Light option is where the baddies would vote. And boo suggest that I voted that option in order to fly low. But I put to you that Light and his follows and the other baddies would more than likely vote for the "Normal Lynch". "Normal Lynch" is the safe option. It doesn't rustle any feathers, and if anything that's the option that someone would go for if they wanted to fly low. Lets walk through the thought process of a baddie on day 0. Here is my thought process.


1. Normal Lynch is obviously the most "civie friendly" option because it keeps the most control in the hands of the most people.
2. I put "civie friendly" in quotes because the Normal lynch option is also completely safe for baddies. Baddies don't lose anything from picking it. It doesn't put them in any disadvantage at all.
2. The baddies probably assume that most people will want to keep lynches normal, rather than risk a new mechanic.
3. Baddies like to blend in with the crowd. So they will either vote with the group, or throw their vote away on one of the other shitty options.
4. This has the added benefit of baddies being able to fall back on this silly day 0 poll as a flimsy defense further on in the game. "Oh no, I can't be bad. Remember I voted to keep the lynches normal and safe?"
5. They also get the advantage of having a pool of scape goats to go after from the people who voted for L/Light lynches.

So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

Added for Mata: Yes, totally agree. Can't wait to get some.

Added for Boo: Seriously? What are you on about? I promise you, if I ever vote for someone and justify it with " lol so fun" you can all lynch me no questions ask. That is such a ridiculous leap boo.

AceofSpaces wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Nailed it. This + Rob's post are the number one reasons to look closely at L/Light voters in the next few days

You suggest that the L/Light option is where the baddies would vote. And boo suggest that I voted that option in order to fly low. But I put to you that Light and his follows and the other baddies would more than likely vote for the "Normal Lynch". "Normal Lynch" is the safe option. It doesn't rustle any feathers, and if anything that's the option that someone would go for if they wanted to fly low. Lets walk through the thought process of a baddie on day 0. Here is my thought process.


1. Normal Lynch is obviously the most "civie friendly" option because it keeps the most control in the hands of the most people.
2. I put "civie friendly" in quotes because the Normal lynch option is also completely safe for baddies. Baddies don't lose anything from picking it. It doesn't put them in any disadvantage at all.
2. The baddies probably assume that most people will want to keep lynches normal, rather than risk a new mechanic.
3. Baddies like to blend in with the crowd. So they will either vote with the group, or throw their vote away on one of the other shitty options.
4. This has the added benefit of baddies being able to fall back on this silly day 0 poll as a flimsy defense further on in the game. "Oh no, I can't be bad. Remember I voted to keep the lynches normal and safe?"
5. They also get the advantage of having a pool of scape goats to go after from the people who voted for L/Light lynches.

So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

Added for Mata: Yes, totally agree. Can't wait to get some.

Added for Boo: Seriously? What are you on about? I promise you, if I ever vote for someone and justify it with " lol so fun" you can all lynch me no questions ask. That is such a ridiculous leap boo.

Double posting to say : Whoops sorry, Meta with an "e". I have poor eyesight.

I voted normal lynch.

AceofSpaces wrote:So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

Because WIFOM.

Today's discussion has been enjoyable, but I think that behavior after the gameplay has been decided will prove more useful.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

AceofSpaces wrote:So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

Because WIFOM.

Today's discussion has been enjoyable, but I think that behavior after the gameplay has been decided will prove more useful.

I agree.

AceofSpaces wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Nailed it. This + Rob's post are the number one reasons to look closely at L/Light voters in the next few days

You suggest that the L/Light option is where the baddies would vote. And boo suggest that I voted that option in order to fly low. But I put to you that Light and his follows and the other baddies would more than likely vote for the "Normal Lynch". "Normal Lynch" is the safe option. It doesn't rustle any feathers, and if anything that's the option that someone would go for if they wanted to fly low. Lets walk through the thought process of a baddie on day 0. Here is my thought process.


1. Normal Lynch is obviously the most "civie friendly" option because it keeps the most control in the hands of the most people.
2. I put "civie friendly" in quotes because the Normal lynch option is also completely safe for baddies. Baddies don't lose anything from picking it. It doesn't put them in any disadvantage at all.
2. The baddies probably assume that most people will want to keep lynches normal, rather than risk a new mechanic.
3. Baddies like to blend in with the crowd. So they will either vote with the group, or throw their vote away on one of the other shitty options.
4. This has the added benefit of baddies being able to fall back on this silly day 0 poll as a flimsy defense further on in the game. "Oh no, I can't be bad. Remember I voted to keep the lynches normal and safe?"
5. They also get the advantage of having a pool of scape goats to go after from the people who voted for L/Light lynches.

So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

Added for Mata: Yes, totally agree. Can't wait to get some.

Added for Boo: Seriously? What are you on about? I promise you, if I ever vote for someone and justify it with " lol so fun" you can all lynch me no questions ask. That is such a ridiculous leap boo.

I'll agree with you on the non-Light baddie team being more likely to go with normal (or any of the other non L/Light options since that's the only one other than nihilistic that completely takes things out of their control as a team).

1) Exactly.
2) Lynches are inherently civvie-advantaged. It's the only reliable way civvies can kill. That isn't true for baddies. Going with the normal option as a Light team baddie is less advantageous for the team than the L/Light option is since the L/Light option gives greater control over lynches to Light.
3) Normal and L/Light are nearly tied, a baddie can blend in either group (I'm not saying normal doesn't have baddies voting for it, I specified 2 of 9 people that did exactly what I had previously said I though baddies voting for the option would do).
4) That's bullshit and we all know it.
5) That isn't what I'm looking for, but I will agree with you there are already people (or at least one person) who has made that reach and I can see looking at them for it as well since that would be a non-Light baddie team play imo.

I think you know I was not referring to the 'lol fun' comment, but the one about not rehashing what has already been said to justify the vote. There are people who justify voting in lynches using comments exactly like that, and those are lazy votes that don't help anyone. You have no already laid the ground work for casting lynch votes in that way. If you or anyone who is willing to cast lynch votes using that method is L, the civvie advantage of the option (which I already doubt and think only occurs in a best case scenario that requires an absurd amount of luck) is lost entirely.

Oh, a potential 3/9 actually, since spacedaisy voted without actually posting, but maybe her post got eaten or something.

boo wrote:Oh, a potential 3/9 actually, since spacedaisy voted without actually posting, but maybe her post got eaten or something.

I recall her doing an analysis of all the voting types and L/Light was what she was inclining towards.

I still can't get what SVS said about the advantage for the civs being based on how astute L is. I know if it were me I would not have the confidence it takes and be really stressed to be L (I'm not though). My point is I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way. There are a few people I would trust as L but hell at this point they could be anybody. Some may have the opinion that voting for a normal lynch is a baddie move but there is nothing I see that I can say that would change their mind at this point so i will just respectfully disagree and agree with the argument that says the same can be true for those picking the L/Light option. I can't believe this is just a Day 0 vote - they usually aren't this intense. I'm voting for a normal lynch.

Looks like we're just waiting on Black Rock, DisgruntledPorcupine, and FZ.

Boo, if it makes you feel better you have my word I wont make a vote to lynch someone without giving a good reason of my own. I understand your fear of blendy lynch votes, but don't assume that just because I didn't feel like summarizing the last five pages of debate that I wont make a concerted effort for actual lynch votes. I think my above effort to explain my reasoning on this day 0 poll is good evidence of that.

thellama73 wrote:I wonder how our votes are weighted for this Day 0 poll. It would be extremely devious of MP to have already applied one of the options to the vote itself.

I didn't want to say this out loud, but I think there's a possibly this is the case. I'd do it if I were in his shoes.

having already voted, is there any reason to review the last 2 or 3 pages (of course I'll go back after the Day 1 lynch, but right now)

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I wonder how our votes are weighted for this Day 0 poll. It would be extremely devious of MP to have already applied one of the options to the vote itself.

I didn't want to say this out loud, but I think there's a possibly this is the case. I'd do it if I were in his shoes.

I doubt it-- actually....If i were to do that, It would be the first person to vote decides how this poll would work. That said I very much doubt that is the case.

Made wrote:having already voted, is there any reason to review the last 2 or 3 pages (of course I'll go back after the Day 1 lynch, but right now)

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I wonder how our votes are weighted for this Day 0 poll. It would be extremely devious of MP to have already applied one of the options to the vote itself.

I didn't want to say this out loud, but I think there's a possibly this is the case. I'd do it if I were in his shoes.

I doubt it-- actually....If i were to do that, It would be the first person to vote decides how this poll would work. That said I very much doubt that is the case.

Well if that's the case, then MM is going to get an early birthday present.

Regarding the discussion that has surfaced about me as a host, all I have to say is:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Regarding the discussion that has surfaced about me as a host, all I have to say is:

Go away

Once Black Rock and DisgruntledPorcupine have voted, I can start Day 1. I can wait if players also want more time. Just let me know.

Don't poke the bear made!!!!!!! *hides more*