STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Russtifinko]

Also, I think Dom and DFaraday are on the same line, just so you know.

Epi would tell us two lynches are more in the towns interest than one, so I guess we should vote for DomDfaraday

This is logically sound, actually.

[Golden]

Logically sound, sure!

But DH went and gave them each their own entry on the poll, so

[a2thezebra]

zebra, I'm actually NOT pinged by DDL's logic here. He's right - if Tarkin chose one planet that gets blown up, the baddies know which one it is, so you can be damned sure they'll avoid voting last at that planet and only that planet. The rest of us will try not to vote last on EVERY planet. So if DDL hadn't said anything, we could've looked hindsight to see if anyone who normally votes late voted early on the day the planet blew up.

What pinged me was that he blew this angle by explaining it, and then went hyper-meta with it. And I'm also slightly pinged that you were so quick to join me here, but with a different point.

What makes you so sure?

Why only that planet? You agree with DDL's logic and he himself said that they are viable to imitate the actions of everyone else by avoiding voting last every day.

First of all, "so quick"? Second, how is partial agreement a ping for you?

[a2thezebra]

Consider me slightly pinged that you are slightly pinged.

[Golden]

Consider me slightly pinged that you are slightly pinged.

Consider me slightly pinged that you are slightly pinged that he is slightly pinged.

Oh, who am I kidding. I'm just slightly pinged because you are zebra

My experience of DDL is that he always seems suspicious early on. I thought he was bad day one in economics and he wasn't.

[a2thezebra]

I've never played with him before (either that or it's been far too long) so does he normally make a suggestion and then proceed to shoot down that very suggestion in the same post?

[Epignosis]

Once again, if you wish to sell your vote today, you must PM both hosts with your asking price. Any previous PMs that did not include this are void.

[Dom]

HOST NOTE: With American Thanksgiving coming up, it is extremely likely there will be an extension/delay during that phase. For my convenience, please let me know if this will be an issue.

I work retail, so I greatly appreciate this.


Game on!

[Golden]

I've never played with him before (either that or it's been far too long) so does he normally make a suggestion and then proceed to shoot down that very suggestion in the same post?

Umm, I'm not sure I can speak to his precise tendencies. Just that I have found he picks up suspicion early in every game, no matter his affiliation. Kind of like sig in this way.

[a2thezebra]

Well also like sig, I'm not giving him a pass because it's apparently normal of him to be suspicious. A ping is a ping and I'll point it out whether it's meta-friendly or not.

[Tangrowth]

I can attest to what Golden is trying to express. I see nothing out of the ordinary for either DDL or zebra. on them, for sure, but no reason to eye them more than anyone else at this point.

zebra, you disagree with DDL's logic, yes? However, do you recognize that just because you think someone has reached a conclusion that you find faulty does not necessarily make them mafia?

[Golden]

I don't think anyone should go getting free passes.

[a2thezebra]

I can attest to what Golden is trying to express. I see nothing out of the ordinary for either DDL or zebra. on them, for sure, but no reason to eye them more than anyone else at this point.

zebra, you disagree with DDL's logic, yes? However, do you recognize that just because you think someone has reached a conclusion that you find faulty does not necessarily make them mafia?

Of course. But if you read my original post you would know that it wasn't just because I disagreed with him that I was suspicious. It was mainly because I don't understand how someone could point something out and then immediately retract it. Like I said, it comes off as if that person is trying to look like they are contributing when they are not. I also said that it is questionable to use meta as a defense to a slight ping and I stand by that.

[a2thezebra]

I don't think anyone should go getting free passes.

[Tangrowth]

Gun to my head, I actually find Russtifinko suspicious in that exchange. He seems to express two distinct slight pings of both DDL and zebra, but it seems a bit opportunistic for him to say on the one hand that he is NOT pinged by DDL's logic but that he was pinged by DDL overexplaining it. Could possibly be a disingenuous way for Russtifinko to throw mud at two players who are relatively easier to lynch than the rest of us, particularly this early, since you both tend to post a lot and easily misinterpreted.

[DharmaHelper]

This is why Epi is the finance guy and I'm the .... what the heck do I do again?

[Marmot]

This is why Epi is the finance guy and I'm the .... what the heck do I do again?

You're the IDEA guy.

[a2thezebra]

Here, let me just bump this and distinguish the disagreements from the suspicions. The suspicious elements are in red, the rest is not.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

Well I got someone to start baddie hunting, so I guess it was successful in that sense at least.

Well I like to discuss tactics. Not the first game I've done that. In any case, I have no intention of using such methods as failproof evidence of anyone being mafia, while ignoring other evidence. I just want to have them in mind in case we need to use them later, or maybe help people have their own ideas on how we can use the game mechanics to find mafia.

I get what you're saying DDL, and I appreciate your efforts to look for certain strategies (assuming these efforts are genuine, but I'll get to that in a bit), but I don't think I fully understand your logic here.

I'm sure there would be plenty of civs as well as baddies who would avoid voting rather than risk being the last vote, so I'm not sure how that would make a player suspicious. Placing their own interests ahead of the town, sure, but not baddie per se.

Well I'm assuming the empire mafia knows what the planet is going to be destroyed is, so that means they wouldn't have to worry about being the last ones to vote in the other phases, but would have to worry in that specific phase where the planet explodes. I'm speculating that we could try to find that pattern. Of course there would be other players avoiding voting last, so it wouldn't be a conclusive evidence.

Of course, now that I've said that, they could also worry about it in every single phase just to attempt to mask the pattrn. Then again, if I get mafiosos to play in a non-optimal way just to avoid being found, that's a profit.

I love metagaming.

I agree with DFaraday. But more importantly, how would we able to find a pattern? What pattern? Assuming you're right and the empire knows which planet will be destroyed (which I wouldn't be too sure that that assumption is correct) that only means, as you said, they would only have to be cautious with that particular planet. One planet. So where's the pattern we're looking for? And you seem to be tip-toeing a bit here with your reasoning. Proposing a method of finding baddies only to follow it up with "so it wouldn't be conclusive evidence" makes me wonder why bring up that potential tactic in the first place? It seems like you're just saying things like this to appear as if you're contributing. And you make it worse by excusing that this imaginary pattern could be copied for each phase, so again, what's the point? And finally, how would you, and you mention you specifically rather than town as a whole, (why?) be able to get mafiosos to play in an unorthodox way to be spotted? Or am I simply misunderstanding your reasoning here? Please help me out here. Finally, to return to the original post:

Not the first game I've done that.

I'm not a fan of players hiding behind their meta especially in response to slight pings. Consider me slightly pinged as well.

[Tangrowth]

I can attest to what Golden is trying to express. I see nothing out of the ordinary for either DDL or zebra. on them, for sure, but no reason to eye them more than anyone else at this point.

zebra, you disagree with DDL's logic, yes? However, do you recognize that just because you think someone has reached a conclusion that you find faulty does not necessarily make them mafia?

Of course. But if you read my original post you would know that it wasn't just because I disagreed with him that I was suspicious. It was mainly because I don't understand how someone could point something out and then immediately retract it. Like I said, it comes off as if that person is trying to look like they are contributing when they are not. I also said that it is questionable to use meta as a defense to a slight ping and I stand by that.

How beneficial of a mafia motive do you think this would be?

I understand how you are making the distinction, but I think that you are still finding him suspicious due to misunderstanding his train of thought (see: underlined).

I don't disagree necessarily with your point regarding meta, especially since many cases and defenses are wrongly argued due to meta, and it can be utilized by mafia as a disingenuous reason to attack or defend someone. Nonetheless, I do think there can be a time and a place for meta, particularly with players such as sig, Vompatti, etc.

I think catching mafia behavior is much more complicated than finding a particular action in and of itself suspicious, since to some degree it depends on the player making that action and the circumstances in which that action is made.

I'll review your points and take them into consideration again, zebra, but as it stands I currently have no substantial reason to suspect DDL.

[a2thezebra]

How beneficial would it be to appear as if one is contributing in town's favor when they are not? That's the go-to mafia tactic, MP. Now there's no motive to retract one's hypothesis in the same post that they proposed it, but that's not the issue.

[Tangrowth]

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

I want everyone to discuss this.

How are these two statements compatible?

[Tangrowth]

How beneficial would it be to appear as if one is contributing in town's favor when they are not? That's the go-to mafia tactic, MP. Now there's no motive to retract one's hypothesis in the same post that they proposed it, but that's not the issue.

But it clearly is the issue when that is what you "don't understand".

Unless I am misunderstanding you, you are finding issue with DDL proposing his analysis and then retracting it, not the actual proposal itself, correct?

[Tangrowth]

I am casting a "fake vote" on Russtifinko. If the hosts allowed changeable votes, I would be casting my vote. Since they are not, I will withhold it. But consider this an official expression of suspicion on Russtifinko.

Russ, when you get a chance, can you answer some of my concerns?

[a2thezebra]

How beneficial would it be to appear as if one is contributing in town's favor when they are not? That's the go-to mafia tactic, MP. Now there's no motive to retract one's hypothesis in the same post that they proposed it, but that's not the issue.

But it clearly is the issue when that is what you "don't understand".

Unless I am misunderstanding you, you are finding issue with DDL proposing his analysis and then retracting it, not the actual proposal itself, correct?

It's not the issue because the action in itself isn't justifiable from a town or scum perspective. It is only more applicable to the scum perspective because it's more likely (in my opinion) the result of the mafia tactic I described than a town perspective with an undefined motivation. It would help if you could explain how that's just as likely (or better yet, more likely) to be an action from a town perspective than scum mimicking town.

[Roxy]

Still not quite sold on Dragon his idea of analysing votes for locations and lynches but I am all for info and what Dragon is proposing will give info just not sure how it will be of use. He was a bit on the fence with his own idea just like - Russti was with his initial suspicion of Dragon. zebra is all over everything. MP is already suspicious of Russti and Matt is being his usual self.(though I will be honest I thought the votes for Death Star were off to begin with. Sorsha day 0.

Its where I am.

[a2thezebra]

What about Sorsha Day 0?

[Dom]

what about her

[Matt]

I don't think my pushing for Death Star was off. I was surprised there weren't more votes there anyway. Ask anyone on the street, "Would you rather visit Tatooine or the Death Star?", 10 to 1 most peeps are sayin' Death Star.

And yes, I completely agree Sorsha Day 0. :P

[Dom]

I just understood. <_<

[a2thezebra]

Am I missing something? What exactly are you agreeing with about Sorsha on Day 0? Or are you just poking fun at Roxy's vagueness?

linki - ???

[Matt]

I have no idea what Dom understood, but I was just havin' fun with Roxy. I have no idea what Sorsha Day 0 means.

[a2thezebra]

Well it's good to know that I'm not the only one in the dark then.

[Matt]

Well it's good to know that I'm not the only one in the dark then.

Was that a well placed hint admitting your allegiance to the dark side? For shame, Zeebs.

[a2thezebra]

Well it's good to know that I'm not the only one in the dark then.

Was that a well placed hint admitting your allegiance to the dark side? For shame, Zeebs.

Hey, you voted for the Death Star too. :P

[bcornett24]

Ok, so for the srs bsns I promised:

1) Voting Tatooine. Less for movie reasons and more because if we want info about Jabba's plans and our operatives found his plans in his palace, it makes sense to think his palace is a good place to start the search.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

I'm rather confused why the focus of the conversation happens to be on the 2nd statement russ made here and not the first. I would encourage everybody to read the statement in red. To me this comes across as a scum hunting for third party players (or vise-versa).

I find this to be a very anti-town statement. What does everybody else think?

[Enrique]

It struck me as pretty odd too. Like, wouldn't it stand to reason that (as somebody pointed out to me earlier) that Jabba would benefit from going to his own lair? I mean, we're just going to a planet, that doesn't mean we'll suddenly find out everything about Team Jabba.

I'm also not really caught up with the thread and I apologize. Shitty day. I'll make an effort tomorrow to get up to speed.

[MacDougall]

Requesting a policy lynch of MattF.

[a2thezebra]

I don't want to talk anymore about Russ or DDL until I hear from them both about everything that's been addressed.

Requesting a policy lynch of MattF.

Oh boy.

[Marmot]

MacDougall

Let's do this.

[MacDougall]

MacDougall

Let's do this.

You spelled MattF wrong.

[a2thezebra]

[MacDougall]

No, but in all seriousness enrique is scum.

[Marmot]

MacDougall

Let's do this.

You spelled MattF wrong.

Ma...

































ybe I didn't.

[MacDougall]

MacDougall

Let's do this.

You spelled MattF wrong.

Ma...

































ybe I didn't.

[Marmot]

Why should we policy lynch Matt?

[MacDougall]

No, but in all seriousness enrique is scum.

[a2thezebra]

Okay I planned on staying in semi-spectator mode to watch you two go at it but seriously why Enrique?

[a2thezebra]

MacDougall

Let's do this.

Wait a second this is your ACTUAL vote? Did you forget votes are not changeable or are you this confident Mac is scum?

[Marmot]

MacDougall

Let's do this.

Wait a second this is your ACTUAL vote? Did you forget votes are not changeable or are you this confident Mac is scum?

No and perhaps.

[Enrique]

uhh okie