MAD MAX: GAME OVER

[Dom]

Why do some people suspect motel room?

[Dom]

Dom, who else is on your radar other than indi and INH at this time?

Also, what was it specifically that caused you to re-examine your read of me; was it just the Elo flip specifically or something else? Is there anything else you want me to talk about?

LoRab.

I'd also like Mac to answer to my question to him.

[Tangrowth]

Why do some people suspect motel room?

Are you reading him as town?

His recent behavior is reading pretty town to me like his early d1 stuff was. I was finding his contributions in the midst there to be a bit weak, and the fact that his d3 vote was baseless bothered me at first. Right now I'd say he's looking solid though.

[Tangrowth]

I should cast my vote for somebody.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Bleh. I wanted Wilgy to say something.

DrWilgy

[Tangrowth]

Bleh. I wanted Wilgy to say something.

DrWilgy

I'll join this. He's still one of my weakest reads.

DrWilgy

[Tangrowth]

Well, I've lost steam. Better go to bed, going to be up at 4:30 with a long day tomorrow. See you folks later, maybe tomorrow, maybe Wednesday morning/afternoon.

[Dom]

Why do some people suspect motel room?

Are you reading him as town?

His recent behavior is reading pretty town to me like his early d1 stuff was. I was finding his contributions in the midst there to be a bit weak, and the fact that his d3 vote was baseless bothered me at first. Right now I'd say he's looking solid though.

No. But not bad either. I just remembered people calling him out and couldn't remember why.

[Glorfindel]

Greetings, my friends! I see I now have a lot more upon which to catch up on I would like to address a point that Neil made yesterday evening (I think?) about my not being so involved with this game. I can appreciate that perception but I'd like to address it to the extent I am able all the same. I can't remember a game I ever played where it didn't take me a little while to find my stride and this game is no different. I also acknowledge that my behaviour has changed a little this game. A number of players here (and one specifically that I hold in high regard) as well as players on my home site have counseled me recently on reducing my tendency for self defence and I've genuinely tried to remove that from my approach this game.

I'm trying to do my best to keep in contact with this game and I hate the fact that my involvement so far has been limited by external factors but such is life. I'll be back tonight and hopefully will be able to start to post something more substantial. Thanks to those of you who have had the patience to bear with me so far, I appreciate that.

[Sloonei]

Because I thought Lorab was bad, and I harbored doubts about Elo's alignment.

Is having incorrect opinions now illegal?

I think it's stupid to think that Lorab voter = scum, but it's also naive to think that there wasn't a last ditch effort from Toecutter's gang to save their eponymous member.

So, I take it you now think LoRab is good?

I still think Sloonei's case makes sense, and I don't think any of my points against her were discredited, but I find it hard to justify going after her head after Elo flipped bad to the bone. So right now my opinion of LoRab is in limbo, and I'd rather target and investigate other suspects.

If you like my LoRab case so much, might I recommend my case against insertnamehere? I think it is every bit as good if not more!

[LoRab]

Shortening this to address the points I want to address:

How? What am I paranoid about?
This is an empty accusation.

...

Anyone think LoRab would have tried to kill me after I called her one of my top two town reads?

I don't know if LoRab WOULD have done it, but I wouldn't rule her out.

The paranoia I read is in the tone. I asked you a question, you respond as if I were saying you are my top suspect and I'm trying to lynch you. You are not and I am not. It's not empty, it's based on tone. You've known me long enough to know that much of my game is tone-based.

...

And, I mean, yeah--I guess could do that. And woot--I was starting to get nervous that everyone was civ reading me. This feels much more natural.

Dom, who else is on your radar other than indi and INH at this time?

Also, what was it specifically that caused you to re-examine your read of me; was it just the Elo flip specifically or something else? Is there anything else you want me to talk about?

LoRab.

I'd also like Mac to answer to my question to him.

Wait--so you go from not ruling me out to being one of your top 3 baddie reads?

Also, please refresh my memory: Why do you suspect me?

[LoRab]

And, to clarify (because I checked back), by refresh my memory, I mean: You've never made a case against me, voted for me, or expressed suspicion until today (during the night cycle when I asked you about not having answered me). So, I'm curious why you suspect me as your number 3 suspect.

[Dom]

Vote
Indiglo
INH
LoRab

Investigate MacDougall

[Sloonei]

I just worked the absolute worst shift I'll ever work so I'm too grumpy to read this thread, but I've cooled off on LoRab and heated back up on INH simply because I saw Jay said he came out looking bad in the Elohcin Files. That's good enough for me. Everything else is

Glad to see Neil Hartley is a confirmed good guy.

[LoRab]

Vote
Indiglo
INH
LoRab

Investigate MacDougall

Again, why me? You have never stated why you suspect me. I'm curious to know your reasons so I can defend.

[Sloonei]

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

[Sloonei]

I ain't reading shit tonight, but if anyone's got questions for me I'm all ears until I pass out in a drunken stupor in an hour or two.

[LoRab]

I ain't reading shit tonight, but if anyone's got questions for me I'm all ears until I pass out in a drunken stupor in an hour or two.

What's your gut read of Dom?

Indiglo?

[Dom]

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

[a2thezebra]

MovingPictures07

[a2thezebra]

I ain't reading shit tonight, but if anyone's got questions for me I'm all ears until I pass out in a drunken stupor in an hour or two.

Where are you currently on Mac, motel room, and MP?

[Dom]

LoRab, what am I paranoid about?

[a2thezebra]

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

You must be aware to some extent that your approach this game is narrower in focus than average. What happened to your suspicion of MP?

[Sloonei]

I ain't reading shit tonight, but if anyone's got questions for me I'm all ears until I pass out in a drunken stupor in an hour or two.

What's your gut read of Dom?

Indiglo?

I think Dom's good. He's just taking a tight lipped approach, is all.

Indi is I dunno. Gun to head, I'll call her scum. There has been frustration in her response to the conversation around her, but I could go either way on that. If she's town and came in to pre-existing suspicion, bummer. But if she's scum then that's an even bigger bummer, and I think she'd have even more cause for frustration. I'll need to do more digging on her before I can offer a confident read.

[Sloonei]

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

Your posts are short.

[a2thezebra]

I ain't reading shit tonight, but if anyone's got questions for me I'm all ears until I pass out in a drunken stupor in an hour or two.

What's your gut read of Dom?

Indiglo?

I think Dom's good. He's just taking a tight lipped approach, is all.

Indi is I dunno. Gun to head, I'll call her scum. There has been frustration in her response to the conversation around her, but I could go either way on that. If she's town and came in to pre-existing suspicion, bummer. But if she's scum then that's an even bigger bummer, and I think she'd have even more cause for frustration. I'll need to do more digging on her before I can offer a confident read.

This is pretty much where I am with Indi, only gun to head I would call her town.

[LoRab]

LoRab, what am I paranoid about?

I answered this in a prior post, but your claim that MP buddied you I don't think was ever substantiated and his putting you on a rainbow list didn't suffice for me. Also, your tone in responding to questions asked of you and mentions of things that have been noticed are of a tone that seems overly defensive, in a paranoid sort of way.

Why am I your number 3 bad read? Because, again, you have not said a single thing about why you find me suspicious.

[Sloonei]

I ain't reading shit tonight, but if anyone's got questions for me I'm all ears until I pass out in a drunken stupor in an hour or two.

Where are you currently on Mac, motel room, and MP?

Very far to the west of the first two, and a smidge east of the third, I believe. I think Mac has been antagonistic and confrontational all game long, but that's his MO. I'm honestly not sure how to distinguish between town Mac and scum Mac, after all these years. I haven't really tried to in this game.

motel room has felt town in his brief appearances in this game. His light participation isn't out of character from what I remember in the final days of RYMafia when he was too busy to do his normal aokiji thing.

I've been waffling on MP all game long and we haven't really been in the thread at the same time at any point, so it's been tough for me to get a read on him. I'll give him a GTH town read right now.

[Sloonei]

MovingPictures07

Why?

[a2thezebra]

MovingPictures07

Why?

His interactions with Elohcin look the worst out of anyone, all of his responses to those who have voiced suspicion at ANY point in the game have been weak, and after the GTH reads he's probably the most likely player to have targeted JJJ.

[a2thezebra]

Sloonei what do you think we should make of the Night 3 result?

[Sloonei]

MovingPictures07

Why?

His interactions with Elohcin look the worst out of anyone, all of his responses to those who have voiced suspicion at ANY point in the game have been weak, and after the GTH reads he's probably the most likely player to have targeted JJJ.

I'm gonna look into these things when I have the energy.

[a2thezebra]

Also, if the deadline was in five minutes who would you vote for and why? Would it be insertnamehere or someone else?

[Dom]

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

You must be aware to some extent that your approach this game is narrower in focus than average. What happened to your suspicion of MP?

I wouldn't say that.
And I've addressed that. I don't think it is likely MP and Eloh were teammates.

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

Your posts are short.

Are my posts known for being long?

LoRab, what am I paranoid about?

I answered this in a prior post, but your claim that MP buddied you I don't think was ever substantiated and his putting you on a rainbow list didn't suffice for me. Also, your tone in responding to questions asked of you and mentions of things that have been noticed are of a tone that seems overly defensive, in a paranoid sort of way.

Why am I your number 3 bad read? Because, again, you have not said a single thing about why you find me suspicious.

#1) So... what am I paranoid about? What am I afraid of? What am I worried about? You didn't answer that question.
#2) He... buddied me? He suddenly agreed with me and gave me a civ read with zero reasoning?
#3) I absolutely gave reasons. Your suspicion of me is hollow, has no substance, and has no internal logic. You smeared me, attempted to get others to make the case for you. I outlined this earlier.


@Mac
Anytime you want to tell me, Mac, why I dropped so low on your reads when you suspect Zebra for the exact same thing is a good thing!

[Dom]

MovingPictures07

Why?

His interactions with Elohcin look the worst out of anyone, all of his responses to those who have voiced suspicion at ANY point in the game have been weak, and after the GTH reads he's probably the most likely player to have targeted JJJ.

Could you outline this. This was not the impression I had based on memory.

[Sloonei]

Also, if the deadline was in five minutes who would you vote for and why? Would it be insertnamehere or someone else?

I'd be totally overwhelmed and under-prepared, so I'd probably panic and default to INH or whichever of the two main bandwagons I prefer.

[Sloonei]

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

Your posts are short.

Are my posts known for being long?

They've been longer.

[Sloonei]

I see that about half the posts in this thread are currently voting for DrWilgy. I look forward to finding out why in the morning.

[a2thezebra]

MovingPictures07

Why?

His interactions with Elohcin look the worst out of anyone, all of his responses to those who have voiced suspicion at ANY point in the game have been weak, and after the GTH reads he's probably the most likely player to have targeted JJJ.

Could you outline this. This was not the impression I had based on memory.

I'm not even fully caught up yet and I'm about to pass out. I will later.

[a2thezebra]

Also, if the deadline was in five minutes who would you vote for and why? Would it be insertnamehere or someone else?

I'd be totally overwhelmed and under-prepared, so I'd probably panic and default to INH or whichever of the two main bandwagons I prefer.

But right now there's only one "bandwagon" that being DrWilgy. Would you vote for him then?

[Sloonei]

Also, if the deadline was in five minutes who would you vote for and why? Would it be insertnamehere or someone else?

I'd be totally overwhelmed and under-prepared, so I'd probably panic and default to INH or whichever of the two main bandwagons I prefer.

But right now there's only one "bandwagon" that being DrWilgy. Would you vote for him then?

Maybe. 50% of that bandwagon is confirmed town.

[a2thezebra]

Also, if the deadline was in five minutes who would you vote for and why? Would it be insertnamehere or someone else?

I'd be totally overwhelmed and under-prepared, so I'd probably panic and default to INH or whichever of the two main bandwagons I prefer.

But right now there's only one "bandwagon" that being DrWilgy. Would you vote for him then?

Maybe. 50% of that bandwagon is confirmed town.

Confirmed town claiming the target of their vote is confirmed scum no less. But I'd like to know if there's going to be any public substantiation behind that claim before I can draw my own conclusions about it.

[Dom]

MovingPictures07

Why?

His interactions with Elohcin look the worst out of anyone, all of his responses to those who have voiced suspicion at ANY point in the game have been weak, and after the GTH reads he's probably the most likely player to have targeted JJJ.

Could you outline this. This was not the impression I had based on memory.

I'm not even fully caught up yet and I'm about to pass out. I will later.

Thank you.

[LoRab]

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

You must be aware to some extent that your approach this game is narrower in focus than average. What happened to your suspicion of MP?

I wouldn't say that.
And I've addressed that. I don't think it is likely MP and Eloh were teammates.

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

Your posts are short.

Are my posts known for being long?

LoRab, what am I paranoid about?

I answered this in a prior post, but your claim that MP buddied you I don't think was ever substantiated and his putting you on a rainbow list didn't suffice for me. Also, your tone in responding to questions asked of you and mentions of things that have been noticed are of a tone that seems overly defensive, in a paranoid sort of way.

Why am I your number 3 bad read? Because, again, you have not said a single thing about why you find me suspicious.

#1) So... what am I paranoid about? What am I afraid of? What am I worried about? You didn't answer that question.
#2) He... buddied me? He suddenly agreed with me and gave me a civ read with zero reasoning?
#3) I absolutely gave reasons. Your suspicion of me is hollow, has no substance, and has no internal logic. You smeared me, attempted to get others to make the case for you. I outlined this earlier.


@Mac
Anytime you want to tell me, Mac, why I dropped so low on your reads when you suspect Zebra for the exact same thing is a good thing!

1. You are paranoid about people suspecting you. You are worried about others being suspicious of you. I have said that several times in different ways.

2. I do not think he buddied you, but it's possible I read his posts differently than you. Can you give examples of specific posts in which you perceive him to have buddied you?

3. No, you did not give reasons. Unless your entire case is that I suspect you. Which, is really not a case. Yes, I suspect you--I have given reasons and have explained those reasons. That you don't get them does not mean that there is no internal logic. Also, that I suspect you, even if I am wrong, does not mean that I'm bad--at all. I think you are overstating the posts I've made about you--and every post you make like this, accusing me of smearing you and having a false case, make you seem increasingly suspicious.

And where did I try to get others to make a case for me?

And I apologize if I read as defenses what you apparently meant as accusations.

Your entire suspicion of me seems to be based on the fact that I vaguely suspect you. Am I wrong in that assessment?

Because that's kind of the actual definition of a switcheroo.

[a2thezebra]

MovingPictures07

Why?

His interactions with Elohcin look the worst out of anyone, all of his responses to those who have voiced suspicion at ANY point in the game have been weak, and after the GTH reads he's probably the most likely player to have targeted JJJ.

Could you outline this. This was not the impression I had based on memory.

I'm not even fully caught up yet and I'm about to pass out. I will later.

Thank you.

No problem.

[a2thezebra]

For the record, my top town read (excluding J of course) is still Dom.

[Dom]

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

You must be aware to some extent that your approach this game is narrower in focus than average. What happened to your suspicion of MP?

I wouldn't say that.
And I've addressed that. I don't think it is likely MP and Eloh were teammates.

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

Your posts are short.

Are my posts known for being long?

LoRab, what am I paranoid about?

I answered this in a prior post, but your claim that MP buddied you I don't think was ever substantiated and his putting you on a rainbow list didn't suffice for me. Also, your tone in responding to questions asked of you and mentions of things that have been noticed are of a tone that seems overly defensive, in a paranoid sort of way.

Why am I your number 3 bad read? Because, again, you have not said a single thing about why you find me suspicious.

#1) So... what am I paranoid about? What am I afraid of? What am I worried about? You didn't answer that question.
#2) He... buddied me? He suddenly agreed with me and gave me a civ read with zero reasoning?
#3) I absolutely gave reasons. Your suspicion of me is hollow, has no substance, and has no internal logic. You smeared me, attempted to get others to make the case for you. I outlined this earlier.


@Mac
Anytime you want to tell me, Mac, why I dropped so low on your reads when you suspect Zebra for the exact same thing is a good thing!

1. You are paranoid about people suspecting you. You are worried about others being suspicious of you. I have said that several times in different ways.

2. I do not think he buddied you, but it's possible I read his posts differently than you. Can you give examples of specific posts in which you perceive him to have buddied you?

3. No, you did not give reasons. Unless your entire case is that I suspect you. Which, is really not a case. Yes, I suspect you--I have given reasons and have explained those reasons. That you don't get them does not mean that there is no internal logic. Also, that I suspect you, even if I am wrong, does not mean that I'm bad--at all. I think you are overstating the posts I've made about you--and every post you make like this, accusing me of smearing you and having a false case, make you seem increasingly suspicious.

And where did I try to get others to make a case for me?

And I apologize if I read as defenses what you apparently meant as accusations.

Your entire suspicion of me seems to be based on the fact that I vaguely suspect you. Am I wrong in that assessment?

Because that's kind of the actual definition of a switcheroo.

1) Citation Needed. Also contradictory. First I ignored your post, then I am too paranoid about your post. Pick one.
2) My only interaction in the entire game with him was "you're bad" and he listed me as his #2 civvie with zero explanation. What else would you like to know? He was overly kind to my suspicion. He avoided taking any issue with it. He lacked a coherent voice in the thread-- he has since adopted a more serious one. He said that I contributed more to Romance of Three Kingdoms than any other player-- a straight falsehood. suddenly I became a manipulator to him, but that was never mentioned again. My case against MP is well documented and before the Eloh flip, I was ready to vote for him today too. HOWEVER, in my read through of this, I found a post I find... intriuging. Stay tuned.
3) Yes. I did.

My suspicion of you is based on the fact that you have zero internal logic in your suspicion of me.

[Dom]

<SNIP>
Elohcin is utterly uninspiring. I have had trouble reading her in the past, but I'm not letting that influence my judgment. She deserves a strong mafia read at this point because she has the most incentive of anyone to kill Epignosis; despite her continued confusion, she appears to be making no effort to engage with or understand anyone else's views whatsoever. I also find the fact that she finds Jay civilian suddenly now dubious given that she seemed to suspect him earlier for potentially hiding behind his roleplaying even though he evidently was not doing so and continues not to do so. I think all of her posts are incredibly easy for her to maintain as mafia, and her tone is completely underwhelming and consistently devoid of emotion, coming across as manufactured. She is definitely my biggest mafia read; I don't have any reason to read her as town.

I am confused by this... uninspiring as a vote or uninspiring as a civ?

[LoRab]

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

You must be aware to some extent that your approach this game is narrower in focus than average. What happened to your suspicion of MP?

I wouldn't say that.
And I've addressed that. I don't think it is likely MP and Eloh were teammates.

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

Your posts are short.

Are my posts known for being long?

LoRab, what am I paranoid about?

I answered this in a prior post, but your claim that MP buddied you I don't think was ever substantiated and his putting you on a rainbow list didn't suffice for me. Also, your tone in responding to questions asked of you and mentions of things that have been noticed are of a tone that seems overly defensive, in a paranoid sort of way.

Why am I your number 3 bad read? Because, again, you have not said a single thing about why you find me suspicious.

#1) So... what am I paranoid about? What am I afraid of? What am I worried about? You didn't answer that question.
#2) He... buddied me? He suddenly agreed with me and gave me a civ read with zero reasoning?
#3) I absolutely gave reasons. Your suspicion of me is hollow, has no substance, and has no internal logic. You smeared me, attempted to get others to make the case for you. I outlined this earlier.


@Mac
Anytime you want to tell me, Mac, why I dropped so low on your reads when you suspect Zebra for the exact same thing is a good thing!

1. You are paranoid about people suspecting you. You are worried about others being suspicious of you. I have said that several times in different ways.

2. I do not think he buddied you, but it's possible I read his posts differently than you. Can you give examples of specific posts in which you perceive him to have buddied you?

3. No, you did not give reasons. Unless your entire case is that I suspect you. Which, is really not a case. Yes, I suspect you--I have given reasons and have explained those reasons. That you don't get them does not mean that there is no internal logic. Also, that I suspect you, even if I am wrong, does not mean that I'm bad--at all. I think you are overstating the posts I've made about you--and every post you make like this, accusing me of smearing you and having a false case, make you seem increasingly suspicious.

And where did I try to get others to make a case for me?

And I apologize if I read as defenses what you apparently meant as accusations.

Your entire suspicion of me seems to be based on the fact that I vaguely suspect you. Am I wrong in that assessment?

Because that's kind of the actual definition of a switcheroo.

1) Citation Needed. Also contradictory. First I ignored your post, then I am too paranoid about your post. Pick one.
2) My only interaction in the entire game with him was "you're bad" and he listed me as his #2 civvie with zero explanation. What else would you like to know? He was overly kind to my suspicion. He avoided taking any issue with it. He lacked a coherent voice in the thread-- he has since adopted a more serious one. He said that I contributed more to Romance of Three Kingdoms than any other player-- a straight falsehood. suddenly I became a manipulator to him, but that was never mentioned again. My case against MP is well documented and before the Eloh flip, I was ready to vote for him today too. HOWEVER, in my read through of this, I found a post I find... intriuging. Stay tuned.
3) Yes. I did.

My suspicion of you is based on the fact that you have zero internal logic in your suspicion of me.

1. First, you ignored my posts. When you finally responded, your responses, all of them, have been overly defensive to the point of being paranoid about suspicion. Since when is low level suspicion bad?

2. I don't see how reading someone as civ is buttering up. Perhaps we have different meanings of the phrase.

3. So, like I said, you suspect me literally because I suspect you. And you don't seem to get the basis of my suspicion, which is mainly tone. The earlier post I read as defense, not accusation. To me, saying: you are totally wrong and this is a bad case is not at all an accusastion. I guess you meant it as such. That's totally not how I read it. In my mind, civs are wrong all the time and think through things in ways that are mysterious to me and seem out there--that doesn't mean they are bad--just wrong. Nowhere did you say that you thought I was fabricating a false case against you which made you think I was bad. So I didn't see any accusation in your post. As you at least claim was there.

I look forward to the intriguiging post.

[Glorfindel]

I have some recollection of someone expressing concern at my vote at the end od Day 3 so I'm happy to address that matter here. By the time I got on here, EoD was imminent and after skimming the recent posts at that time, the leading wagons were Elohcin and LoRab with a minor wagon on Sprityo. I wanted my vote to count for something and felt compelled to make a judgement between Elohcin and LoRab. Whilst the result turned out well for us, I never really could see the validity of the argument against Elohcin (I thought the assertion that she NK'd Epi on the basis of their personal relationship - two mature, intelligent long term members of this site unable to separate their Mafia gaming activities - to be frankly bordering on the absurd) and I was enamoured by Sloonei's case against LoRab and placed my vote accordingly. Without having checked back, I'm certain that I said as much at the time I voted.

Clearly, I was wrong about Elohcin and in retrospect (after reading LoRab's comprehensive defence) am beginning to feel I may have been wrong about her too. I am still however, firmly convinced that Sloonei is Town and that he may have just mistaken on that occasion - it happens to the best of us.

I'm off to dinner, be back shortly.