The Syndicate

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:20 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:00 am Some thoughts from the GTH reads:

~ The recurring meme with these things has been that the player to give the most civilian reads has tended to be mafia-aligned at a more-than-random rate. In this instance the culprits are Colonel Bob by count and Jack by percentage. Before I proceed with this notion though, I want to look back at the numerous other GTH charts I have saved on this laptop. This trend was one I noticed in the earlier stages of running this exercise, and I am not certain whether it has held overall. It's something that should be easy to check.

~ The initial inspiration (hi Quin) which made me think to do these today was the incursion of dunya into the game thread. She replaced a participant in the lower tier of content quantity and very quickly changed that reality for her player slot. I wanted to see how the people viewing the thread live as that developed would treat their sprityo/dunya reads in light of her content infusion. The results indicate that the general negative press on sprityo has proceeded onto dunya pretty seamlessly. I spoke of my reception of her entry to the game -- I'd like to hear how the GTH participants and otherwise feel about her in the immediate present in greater detail.

~ I'm surprised by the even split on Colonel Bob. Through the long night phase he seemed to attract and hold negative press without receiving much support if any. This was one of the more conflicted reads for me, and I may not be alone in that given the lack of consensus.

~ Daisy wins the Paranoia Award. I have seen on a couple occasions seen mafia-aligned players spam the GTHs with baddie reads, perhaps to avoid the dubious distinction in the first tilde here, or just to appear to be struggling with townie terror. I don't get this impression from Spacedaisy. The reads don't appear forced in that there is a clear low-poster trend visible in her B's. The mafia read on Quin was against the grain though, and it'd be groovy if you'd explore that aloud more Daisy.

~ What's your beef, dunya?

~ The primary value of these reads will come later in the form of interactive analyses and the like. For the moment, they serve us best as clear, consolidated stances and a means of exploring how our guts may surprise us and why.

One of my usual takeaways is that the player(s) receiving the most scum reads is/are at least worth heavier scrutiny. In this case, that'd be Jack.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:21 am**

Jimmy, Idk if you have a big enough sample size but I would love to know player trends.

Like if Daisy always scumreads more people than average, the "scum sometimes scumread a lot" thing doesn't hold. If she usually townreads a lot of people but scumread more on average when she was bad, it becomes a more convincing thing.

Cause really you got three things factoring in.

1) Alignment tendency ie "Baddies tend to gth a bunch of bad reads"
2) Player tendency ie "Daisy tends to gth a bunch of bad reads"
3) How good of a handle the player has on this specific game ie "Daisy is being a bit paranoid this game and has extra bad reads"

So controlling for the third one is hard. Is controlling for the second possible?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:21 am**

for some reason i thought jack was 8 scum to 1 town. A second glance at the chart shows me that speedchuck is also at a similar ratio, along with all the quiet folks/dunya.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:33 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:00 am Some thoughts from the GTH reads:

~ The recurring meme with these things has been that the player to give the most civilian reads has tended to be mafia-aligned at a more-than-random rate. In this instance the culprits are Colonel Bob by count and Jack by percentage. Before I proceed with this notion though, I want to look back at the numerous other GTH charts I have saved on this laptop. This trend was one I noticed in the earlier stages of running this exercise, and I am not certain whether it has held overall. It's something that should be easy to check.

I checked all the GTH reads I have on my laptop and could find/remember elsewhere. Quickly:

Spoiler: show

I'm not going to bother citing my sources here unless someone actually cares. It's easy to find if so.

Twelve players are named here, and six of them were mafia. That's 50%, which is technically "more than random", but not by a significant degree and with a small sample size. It can also be viewed as "in six of ten games, a mafioso led or tied for the lead in civilians named". The difference is probably more semantic than meaningful.

I won't entirely stick the fork in this idea long-term, but I don't think it's a convincing condemnation of Colonel Bob or Jack in this game.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:36 am**

How did you forget the actual trend was "Jimmy names the most civilians"?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:39 am**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:36 am How did you forget the actual trend was "Jimmy names the most civilians"?

I've been working that POE for years.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:43 am**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:21 am Jimmy, Idk if you have a big enough sample size but I would love to know player trends.

Like if Daisy always scumreads more people than average, the "scum sometimes scumread a lot" thing doesn't hold. If she usually townreads a lot of people but scumread more on average when she was bad, it becomes a more convincing thing.

Cause really you got three things factoring in.

1) Alignment tendency ie "Baddies tend to gth a bunch of bad reads"
2) Player tendency ie "Daisy tends to gth a bunch of bad reads"
3) How good of a handle the player has on this specific game ie "Daisy is being a bit paranoid this game and has extra bad reads"

So controlling for the third one is hard. Is controlling for the second possible?

It is at least possible to look into this. I foresee a glaring issue though, and you suggested it -- the sample size for all the instances I can presently access is already limited, and focusing on individual players would limit it further. I may at least explore the notion for players of interest if I can find anyone that has even done more than a few of these.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:47 am**

[mention]Long Con[/mention]

Do you think this last post is a slip? Serious question.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:23 am
Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:21 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:15 am
Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:14 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:11 am @Quin what do you think of sprityo?
GTH bad. I haven't got time to go much deeper than that on him today though.
Will you trust me and vote for him?
Not off of this post alone.
why am i bad?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:57 am**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:47 am @Long Con

Do you think this last post is a slip? Serious question.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:23 am
Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:21 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:15 am
Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:14 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:11 am @Quin what do you think of sprityo?
GTH bad. I haven't got time to go much deeper than that on him today though.
Will you trust me and vote for him?
Not off of this post alone.
why am i bad?

No, I do not.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:00 am**

Why did you ask, jack?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:40 am**

Lynch poll is up! You have 24 hours to choose a lynch.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:45 am**

voting for the bob who is colonial

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:35 am**

Catching up.

Man.

Who were my town and bad reads again?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:52 am**

Ok just ISO'd myself. I have a better understanding of where my reads were.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:52 am**

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:00 am Why did you ask, jack?

Tinfoiling/baselining.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:53 am**

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention]

Share?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:56 am**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:31 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:57 pm I was amazed at how many called me scum in their gth reads. Does this reflect my contributions thus far or mostly what you were feeling from sprityo? Genuinely curious.
The later.

well then, hopefully I can give people a change of heart by the time I am current with the thread.

also, the EoD phase is like at 4-5am my time or something crazy which I will surely not be present for. Is there any time to make EoD a more neutral time for the majority?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:17 am**

I agree. I'm in bed at EoD as well. It's been this way all game so far. This could actually be playing a part in why we aren't lynching people. I wonder is people have actually been around at EoD.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:26 am**

I'm past page 22 now, but I want to say a few things on Daisy. I have to admit, even early on in the Pirates game Daisy wasn't a town read for me. But after a while, I came around. It took less time here for me to pile Daisy in my townie read list and the post below is a good indicator of why I place her higher on my town list today than I did yesterday. This is a townie line of thought. All posts made by Daisy after Day 1 revelation are more Townie spoken Daisy. Daisy reached townie conclusions and asked townie-head questions. I'm feeling better about her not being part of the scum team, but haven't yet completely ruled her out of being a 3P.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:43 am I disagree with the Sutter Buttes one. We have not yet had a night in which to turn any actions in. The Sutter Buttes hide a fellow little mountain at night and it decreases the vote tally against them the following day. I think this can be discounted as a reason for what occurred.

If Everest, then it might not be her
If Aconcagua, then it is her
If Pico Cristobal Colon, then it doesn't have to be her, but they must be someone who feels confident using their one time power to save her...
If Matterhorn, ??? we just don't know enough to eliminate this one
Disregarding Sutter Buttes for reasons already stated above...
Olympus Mons, same boat as Matterhorn

This doesn't clear her, but her survival is in no way a clear indication of her being bad. in fact I think her behavior might actually be explained by a couple of these possibilities and leans me even more towards my previous belief that Nutella is not bad.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:29 am**

I went from being on top of the thread to being six pages behind almost overnight.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:30 am**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:29 am I went from being on top of the thread to being six pages behind almost overnight.

try being 44 pages behind.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:44 am**

I'm sorry, and maybe it's my atrocious English, but I have a hard time understanding Jack in this game.

I feel like a lot of his nitty gritty posts are worded awkwardly and there's a lot of beating around the bushes.

"What about the bits regarding bad handwaives of noncircular reasoning as circular reasoning and junk about...."

like what is this even

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:49 am**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:05 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:51 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:48 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:05 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:39 pm Additionally, Nutella being town in my book means you could be one of two scummers instead of only one (Indy aside) so you're twice as likely to be bad. That was the main reason you were probably good.
Elaborate please?
Is the problem that my numbers are off due to misremembering the number of baddies in this game?

What's confusing/odd?
I don't understand the "one of two scummers instead of only one" statement at all.
I miscounted the baddie team of four as a baddie team of three. If Epi and Nutella are bad, you have a 1/whatever chance of being bad. If only Epi is bad, you have a 2/whatever chance.

But it's actually 2/whatever and 3/whatever.

Like I said in that very post, everyone else would be statistically likely to be good based on that POE.

I think hunting for a mafia team of three and hunting for a rogue are vastly different activities, and there's no baddie team of four. There is a baddie team of 3 and a second lonely baddie team of 1. A scum-read is easier than a rogue-read.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:54 am**

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:28 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:23 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:53 pm (Basically I would think LC is scum but following such a stupid argument if he didn't genuinely see something in Epi is suicidal)

(And that's a town meta read on LC for me)
LC would not have, as scum, taken one of the danciest, hardest-to-lynch targets and formed a stupid argument to try and lynch him. My meta on LC says this sincere, earnest, and suicidal lynchlust comes from a town headspace.

And seriously, who would target Epi as their easy D1 lynch?

Motive-wise, it makes zero sense for LC to be scum outside of tinfoil land.
LC and Epi have a history of this sort of thing. It's within LC's meta to go after him like this. And LC is also one of the boldest scum players we'll see, according to legend. I get the impression that he's willing to do just abot anything.

LC could have gone after sig too, as he's done in the past. Epi direction was intentional, out of townie-bad-feelings, I feel. It was frustration and a bit of sourness, which are also townie emotions. A scummy LC would not have invested that much bad faith framing into making Epi an easy lynch target. I think in the games I've played with LC (as town) he always does something like this (I've seen it once directed to sig and twice to Epi--he was Town in all three games). I remember in his game as scum (Seinfeld), he didn't tunnel anyone in this manner. I'm not saying he hasn't as scum, but I'm saying this smells more like Townie LC to me,

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:01 am**

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:26 pm I hate this argument about ties.

One of Kyle and Jack is bad.

Calling it now.

Sloonei pressures him for some "names" on who is giving him bad vibes and this is DDL's response

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:34 pm sloonei
nutella
LC

There, just looked at the thread and listed the people.

Now imma go back to catch up.

Yeah. I mean DDL has been around for a while. He's an old soul and an old player. A scum DDL would have put in a tad more effort into at least aligning his stories. I understand he's part of the Hydra game on MU too that's started now. I've played Pirates mafia with him, and I read him as town there, despite lurking theories, and I label him as town here for the same reasons. Nothing seems off-meta for his most current town play. He's not on my scum list atm.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:10 am**

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:44 am I'm sorry, and maybe it's my atrocious English, but I have a hard time understanding Jack in this game.

I feel like a lot of his nitty gritty posts are worded awkwardly and there's a lot of beating around the bushes.

"What about the bits regarding bad handwaives of noncircular reasoning as circular reasoning and junk about...."

like what is this even

LC: Epi is bad because "blah blah blah."
Epi: I am dismissing (ie handwaiving) LC's case against me because "blah blah blah" is circular reasoning.
Jack: No, it isn't circular reasoning (ie noncircular reasoning). Whoever I was talking to about Epi, what do you think about Epi dismissing LC's arguement as "circular" when it is clearly not a circular arguement?

Does that make more sense?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:14 am**

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:01 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:26 pm I hate this argument about ties.

One of Kyle and Jack is bad.

Calling it now.
Sloonei pressures him for some "names" on who is giving him bad vibes and this is DDL's response

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:34 pm sloonei
nutella
LC

There, just looked at the thread and listed the people.

Now imma go back to catch up.
Yeah. I mean DDL has been around for a while. He's an old soul and an old player. A scum DDL would have put in a tad more effort into at least aligning his stories. I understand he's part of the Hydra game on MU too that's started now. I've played Pirates mafia with him, and I read him as town there, despite lurking theories, and I label him as town here for the same reasons. Nothing seems off-meta for his most current town play. He's not on my scum list atm.

I've seen this arguement before and while it isn't necessarily wrong, I hate it.

It's essentially "DDL doesn't make sense and if he is bad, he'd probably try harder to make sense."

That's perhaps true but promotes the idea that townies don't need to try to make sense, which by extension means scum doesn't have to either....which eliminates the initial premise of your statement, that scum would try harder to make sense.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:15 am**

this is not a post indicative on how I personally feel about sig and speedchuck at this time but

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:31 pm sig as a civilian pirate was more engaged and effortful in the high-octane Day 1 aboard the pirate ship than he was in this high-octane Day 1. Bad vibes.

Yeah, but Day 1 was over Thanksgiving holidays wasn't it?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:31 pm speedchuck was willing to engage suspects pointedly, and he cut down his suspect pool with transparent civilian reads (or at least pledges not to lynch). I also like the tone he exhibited in his handling of the Epi/LC feud. Good vibes.

You reference the pirate game to give a meta based read on sig, but what about speedchuck's general aura in the beginning of pirates game when he was throwing up statistics and reads? Yet one of those gave you good vibes and the other bad vibes.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:16 am**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:10 am
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:44 am I'm sorry, and maybe it's my atrocious English, but I have a hard time understanding Jack in this game.

I feel like a lot of his nitty gritty posts are worded awkwardly and there's a lot of beating around the bushes.

"What about the bits regarding bad handwaives of noncircular reasoning as circular reasoning and junk about...."

like what is this even
LC: Epi is bad because "blah blah blah."
Epi: I am dismissing (ie handwaiving) LC's case against me because "blah blah blah" is circular reasoning.
Jack: No, it isn't circular reasoning (ie noncircular reasoning). Whoever I was talking to about Epi, what do you think about Epi dismissing LC's arguement as "circular" when it is clearly not a circular arguement?

Does that make more sense?

Maybe I need to sleep on this and see if it hits me

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:19 am**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:14 am
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:01 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:26 pm I hate this argument about ties.

One of Kyle and Jack is bad.

Calling it now.
Sloonei pressures him for some "names" on who is giving him bad vibes and this is DDL's response

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:34 pm sloonei
nutella
LC

There, just looked at the thread and listed the people.

Now imma go back to catch up.
Yeah. I mean DDL has been around for a while. He's an old soul and an old player. A scum DDL would have put in a tad more effort into at least aligning his stories. I understand he's part of the Hydra game on MU too that's started now. I've played Pirates mafia with him, and I read him as town there, despite lurking theories, and I label him as town here for the same reasons. Nothing seems off-meta for his most current town play. He's not on my scum list atm.
I've seen this arguement before and while it isn't necessarily wrong, I hate it.

It's essentially "DDL doesn't make sense and if he is bad, he'd probably try harder to make sense."

That's perhaps true but promotes the idea that townies don't need to try to make sense, which by extension means scum doesn't have to either....which eliminates the initial premise of your statement, that scum would try harder to make sense.

That's more than fair, I don't expect anyone to buy into my DDL case reading. Please note these initial reads are more of a general feel, to gather MY personal thoughts on players I had no back knowledge of yesterday. I agree it's terrible and often false as was the case in Seinfeld where the entire scum team apart from LC were lurkers, but I think it holds some value when it comes to a scum DDL.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:20 am**

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:01 am Yeah. I mean DDL has been around for a while. He's an old soul and an old player. A scum DDL would have put in a tad more effort into at least aligning his stories. I understand he's part of the Hydra game on MU too that's started now. I've played Pirates mafia with him, and I read him as town there, despite lurking theories, and I label him as town here for the same reasons. Nothing seems off-meta for his most current town play. He's not on my scum list atm.

Don't worry about that.

I was lynched on Day 1.

Now I intend to be fully caught up before the day ends. Just 16 pages left.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:23 am**

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:16 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:10 am
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:44 am I'm sorry, and maybe it's my atrocious English, but I have a hard time understanding Jack in this game.

I feel like a lot of his nitty gritty posts are worded awkwardly and there's a lot of beating around the bushes.

"What about the bits regarding bad handwaives of noncircular reasoning as circular reasoning and junk about...."

like what is this even
LC: Epi is bad because "blah blah blah."
Epi: I am dismissing (ie handwaiving) LC's case against me because "blah blah blah" is circular reasoning.
Jack: No, it isn't circular reasoning (ie noncircular reasoning). Whoever I was talking to about Epi, what do you think about Epi dismissing LC's arguement as "circular" when it is clearly not a circular arguement?

Does that make more sense?
Maybe I need to sleep on this and see if it hits me

Ok, it makes sense now.

I see the Epi/LC case as very circular. I think it was weak and more of Day 1 gut instinct tunneling than actual scum tells.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:26 am**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:29 am I went from being on top of the thread to being six pages behind almost overnight.

Welcome to my world.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:28 am**

I would like to think Mod Marmot wouldn't have replaced me into sprityo's role if there was a completely inactive scum team of 3. So I am ruling that possibility out completely from understanding what's been happening in the night phases. Is there a lurker/inactive amidst the scum team--more than likely. Are three users inactive? No.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:29 am**

There is nothing circular about the Epi case. The "circular" rebuttal is fake, and it makes me suspicious to see it called real.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:29 am**

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:28 am I would like to think Mod Marmot wouldn't have replaced me into sprityo's role if there was a completely inactive scum team of 3. So I am ruling that possibility out completely from understanding what's been happening in the night phases. Is there a lurker/inactive amidst the scum team--more than likely. Are three users inactive? No.

This is so simple and makes so much sense. One of you talkers are definitely scum.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:30 am**

Now that you mention it, DDL stating that "Nutella" was one of the vultures is almost as bad of an answer to the question as "LC."

Nutella was accused of defending Epi and only stated things like "I would be okay with lynching Epi" in response to accusations of them being buddies. She was otherwise almost entirely focused on lynching Jack and self preservation.

Here's the relevant portion of Nutella's Day 1. I don't see how one could get "Nutella is a vulture circling Epi and hoping to mislynch him" from this. This further cements my opinion that the "vultures" comment was dishonest.

Spoiler: show

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:47 pm okay this has turned into nonsensical arguments that are getting us nowhere. remind me to never again sign up for a game with both Epi and LC because it just always turns into this and we never make progress

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:57 pm I'm voting for Jack ok gg

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:40 pm lol jack if you think me being lazy is a scumtell you haven't played with me enough. you were spoiled in phenon, that was one of my best civ performances. I am normally lazy af and flipflopping all over the place, anyone can tell you that. I'm trying to change up my style anyway so it's less obvious, and have decided to go with a fast-and-loose, whatever-I-feel-like-saying style this game, and I've decided you're bad so I'm voting for you and I decided not to get deeply involved in discussion because, yeah, I'm lazy, deal with it

linki: wait you think I'm epi's scumbuddy? lol what? I very nearly voted for him first. I'm fine with him being lynched.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:43 pm huh didn't realize LC was getting so many votes. I'll change to Epi then because nobody agrees with me about Jack and I'd much rather Epi get lynched than LC. Though I'm not discounting the possibility that LC is bad either

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:51 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:48 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:46 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:44 pm I'll join nutella in her Jack vote for his scumslip.
wait what? is it him saying "a few good townies" or something else that I'm missing
When I asked him how his post was a scum tell, he said "I don't know" instead of "It's not a scumtell, and cannot be because I'm a Civ."
ah see I didn't entirely follow that thread since y'all kept screwing up the quotes. but I agree with your initial assessment of his sprityo prodding-- that was part of what made me decide he's bad.

vote returning to jack

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:41 am
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:31 am
nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:24 am Let's at least make this a tie k
Can you respond to some of the things I've said about you?
ok, for one thing, I did feel at the time that the epi/LC thing was not getting us anywhere because we have no real basis for suspecting the alignment of either one of them; I suppose it did at least contribute to generating day 1 discussion but I am personally sick of their ongoing feud because it always feels the same and drags on forever.

I suspect Jack for mainly gut reasons, but I can point to his weird prod of sprityo/asking for impressions on his alignment at the very beginning of the game, as well as his confident yet misguided interpretation of my meta, plus his back-and-forth with LC that LC called out as a soft slip, plus his odd assessment of Epi and the post where he analyzes nonexistent connections between me and Epi (and makes another softslip in "a few good townies voting for epi"

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:03 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:59 am @nutella got any legacy reads? It appears you're on the way out.
Jack, Quin, and Kyle are my scum reads. And all pretty good scrabble words. Most likely not all three of them are bad, and one or two of the inactives are, but those are where I'd start.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:36 am**

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:29 am There is nothing circular about the Epi case. The "circular" rebuttal is fake, and it makes me suspicious to see it called real.

Let's say, JaggedJimmyJay made a Crowded House reference in the thread Day 0, and you spotted it and called it out. Then he was like, you're cool LC, I'm not lynching you today.

Would you read that as scum JJJ immediately?

Are you not willing to admit a little bias and aggression in how hard you went after Epi for slightly mundane reasons? Didn't you feel you did better scum hunting when you didn't focus all posts on him?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:38 am**

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:36 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:29 am There is nothing circular about the Epi case. The "circular" rebuttal is fake, and it makes me suspicious to see it called real.
Let's say, JaggedJimmyJay made a Crowded House reference in the thread Day 0, and you spotted it and called it out. Then he was like, you're cool LC, I'm not lynching you today.

Would you read that as scum JJJ immediately?

Are you not willing to admit a little bias and aggression in how hard you went after Epi for slightly mundane reasons? Didn't you feel you did better scum hunting when you didn't focus all posts on him?

I'm sorry, I didn't see a reference to circles there.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:40 am**

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:36 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:29 am There is nothing circular about the Epi case. The "circular" rebuttal is fake, and it makes me suspicious to see it called real.
Let's say, JaggedJimmyJay made a Crowded House reference in the thread Day 0, and you spotted it and called it out. Then he was like, you're cool LC, I'm not lynching you today.

Would you read that as scum JJJ immediately?

Are you not willing to admit a little bias and aggression in how hard you went after Epi for slightly mundane reasons? Didn't you feel you did better scum hunting when you didn't focus all posts on him?

A "weak" case is not the same as a "circular" case.

Epi called the case on him "circular," which is false.

Since you agree with Epi, can you explain how the logic is circular?

Linki:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:41 am**

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:38 am
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:36 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:29 am There is nothing circular about the Epi case. The "circular" rebuttal is fake, and it makes me suspicious to see it called real.
Let's say, JaggedJimmyJay made a Crowded House reference in the thread Day 0, and you spotted it and called it out. Then he was like, you're cool LC, I'm not lynching you today.

Would you read that as scum JJJ immediately?

Are you not willing to admit a little bias and aggression in how hard you went after Epi for slightly mundane reasons? Didn't you feel you did better scum hunting when you didn't focus all posts on him?
I'm sorry, I didn't see a reference to circles there.

I'm sorry, maybe English isn't my first language. Isn't circular case reflective of someone who is just going around in circles and not willing to admit there is a possibility they are wrong or have been misdirected and there are other leads to follow?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 am**

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:53 am**

No, circular logic is logic that requires a belief that it's right in order to prove that it's right. Like "God exists because the Bible says so, and the Bible is the word of God, and thus is the truth."

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:56 am**

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:05 pm
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:06 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:19 pm
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:15 pm I've enjoyed reading dunya's catch up posts.

I want to address mesk's play. Who was it that said they had played with her as civ before and she was really fierce? She seems so genuine to me, but that info doesn't allign with her behavior. I think she needs to be up for discussion today.

Linki...by the way... I can never address linki because on my phone, the left side of linki gets cut off for some reason. Just thought I'd share.
I don't think her absence for 6 days is indicative of her alignment. That's what I would like to sway people away from.
Yes, as town, a wrongly accused town, she gets very vocal and aggressively defensive. She hasn't been on the frying pan though, indeed, she hasn't even been on the forum for 6 days so....we can't say she's scum because she's not here.
This is oddly defensive, imo.

Dunya replaced in awesomely with great effort. What if she is too good to be true? What if there have been no night kills because of a quiet mafia and two of them are mesk and now dunya? Just really spitting this out real quick before I go watch tv with the family. I'm not fully caught up so tell me if I'm insane.
You're saying mafia was a blank space? Maybe. But I'd like some names.

Oh come on this was gold

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:58 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:00 am ~ I'm surprised by the even split on Colonel Bob. Through the long night phase he seemed to attract and hold negative press without receiving much support if any. This was one of the more conflicted reads for me, and I may not be alone in that given the lack of consensus.

It's like I said earlier. Half the game aparrently thinks he's town, but nobody is standing up strong to defend him.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:58 am**

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:53 am No, circular logic is logic that requires a belief that it's right in order to prove that it's right. Like "God exists because the Bible says so, and the Bible is the word of God, and thus is the truth."

Ah ok, circular logic. I understand now. Did Epi explain how your argument was circular? Because I don't see it. I don't see how it was and I also did not see his reasoning.

I did see you going around in circles, though.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:58 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:00 am ~ I'm surprised by the even split on Colonel Bob. Through the long night phase he seemed to attract and hold negative press without receiving much support if any. This was one of the more conflicted reads for me, and I may not be alone in that given the lack of consensus.

Me too. I want to go back and cross check all the people who said "wow that's a good case Sloonei has" with how they read me.

(PS it's colonial, I'm not in the army or anything

)

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:02 am**

Recent pings:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:49 am Obviously, I'm looking to bus my buddies Speedchuck and Dunya so let's get on with that.

Is joke you guys! I'm willing to bet if Jack is bad one (and probably only one) of Speedchuck/Dunya is also bad.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:58 am I don't fully understand the 5 bads on Jack? Wasn't jack confirmed good?

What no why would you say that

(To be more specific the consensus I saw after Day 2 was much more that Sloonei was mechanically likely town, not Jack.)

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:03 am**

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:58 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:53 am No, circular logic is logic that requires a belief that it's right in order to prove that it's right. Like "God exists because the Bible says so, and the Bible is the word of God, and thus is the truth."
Ah ok, circular logic. I understand now. Did Epi explain how your argument was circular? Because I don't see it. I don't see how it was and I also did not see his reasoning.

I did see you going around in circles, though.

nevermind I found it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:10 am**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:06 am Tell me more aunt Speedchuck solving.

hullo dear jack

The Syndicate

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