The Syndicate

fingersplints wrote:

Black Rock wrote:I haven't dropped off the planet I am trying to catch up. I hate catching up on so much volume, it buggers me up. I see Splints still suspects me as well as a few others.

fingersplints wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

fingersplints wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Thanks, sanmateo. I look forward to hearing your answers to other questions and what you think of others as well.

Sloonei, so I am looking through splints's posts again because I'm revisiting my suspicion of her, and I'm uncovering again that she's been issuing a lot of wishywashy statements and I did find it notable that she couldn't even name a top suspect when I asked her yesterday (but then went on to say she still really suspects BR). I'd like to amend my post to say that she might be my 3rd suspect (pushing her back up again), but I'm not certain just yet.

I think you should reconsider who you call wishy washy when you have been drastically up and down in your suspicions. You are pressuring me to name more suspicions. I have and if that isn't good enough for you so be it.

I suspect BR for the defense of MP. A bunch of you didn't suspect it because you trust MP and all suspect Elo, but I understood what she was saying about MP. She wasn't calling him "mean", and I felt she was trying to be tactful about it, but he exploded at Epi and played the victim. (His word choice. Not mine) I feel like BR jumped on that and defended MP. I have been wishy washy about MP because as I said I'm not going to waste a shit ton of time debating how I feel about a player when my read on them is pretty dependant on someone else.

I'm voting BR now.

I don't think you should consider wishywashy as an insult; it certainly isn't. I am pressuring you because that's part of the game, is it not? I'm unclear as to where you're at, so I've been asking for clarification.

I don't see where everyone is saying they trust me; I've arguably had more heat on me than anyone else. As usual, I'll likely get lynched at some point.

So, to be clear, my alignment is dependent on BR as follows: If she flips mafia, I'm mafia, and vice versa? Or something else?

BR and pretty much all the new guys have mentioned trust in you to a degree. And I would definitely argue you having the most heat. Mostly only Epi was after you

No. Your alignment does not depend on her alignment. Your alignment depends on that role PM the hosts sent on you. But as with every other game, gaining information allows us to form opinions on others. I've discussed everything. I feel like everyone is stuck on these reads and we cant move on til we have more information.

Now I have to check my own posts, I don't remember saying I trust MP. I think you are trying to make a mountain out of nothing with me. You are taking my words and stringing them into something to try and paint me as bad.

You didn't say specifically "I trust MP"
I still think you defended him, which would mean you think he is good. Do you not have any trust in someone you think is good enough to defend them? I think you are nitpicking at my word choice and trying to defend by saying you didn't say that word when it's clear you expressed a similar sentiment although not that specific word

I'll respond to the points in the latest ISO about me later. I'll try and respond to the latest massive post about me later since I'm on my phone but if there are any specific posts people want from me now they will have to reiterate them in post that won't take me forever to pick apart on my phone

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:birdwithteeth11

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I tend to wait as late as I possibly can to vote. When RL doesn't get in the way, sometimes it is 30 minutes or less before the poll ends. I like to wait as late as possible because I want as much information as I can get before I vote. Sometimes things happen towards the end of a lynch period that make me change my mind.

i would echo these sentiments. my vote ended up useless, so functionally i was no better in the tally than BTW11 was. i waited as long as i could because it was only bloody vote and i wanted to make the best use of it. eventually though the tally became a landslide and it didn't matter anymore. i think players of both alignments will generally be more interesting in holding their votes to ensure total control over their part in the result.

We agree here. Not much for me to note really.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:And it wasn't RL that made me miss the vote. It was me trying to catch up in the thread and losing track of time. I thought I had more time than I did, looked down, and noticed I had almost no time left to vote. So I panicked and went to try and vote, and it had already gone past the deadline.

this bit thought must be believed or not believed at face value. i do struggle to envision myself encountering this dilemma at least -- if i am active in a game near the end of the phase, then my eyes are frequently visiting the clock on the computer. losing track of time at a stage when time is critically important would be a pretty big flub. i can also ask myself though if there's anything a mafioso stands to gain from skipping a vote intentionally instead of just dropping it on someone ineffectively.

With some hosts, missing votes causes one to not be allowed to use their night abilities. Not sure what the policy is with llama and Russ in this game. But I think for mafia, it's more about voting patterns rather than if one votes or doesn't vote.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i'd like to echo a point made by sanmateo and Sloonei. DDL has put a lot of work into describing why he wouldn't play the way he has played as mafia. and in so doing, he has acknowledged the WIFOM nature of that mindset. this would make him a very self-aware mafioso.

but wait, what if he is very self-aware of the notion of being a self-aware mafioso? let's visit his comment directed at me:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:If you are mafia, you are one of the most self-aware players I've ever seen.

this could be called an unintentional self-diagnosis.

Hmmmmmm....interesting. I'll go back and look at it myself.

this tweaked me a little bit. the point i made there against DDL was pretty specific, meaning the chances of it being grounded in reality were inherently not as high as some of the assertions i've made in this thread. what was interesting about it, BWT? have you looked back yet, and if so what did you find?

I did. I'll double-check, but I think the next quote I pulled and posted after my post here was about that. If I did comment on it, I'll just link to the post.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i threw my vote on Elo. every other option is mathematically impossible. and she's a red read. so cool beans.

Same point here. Why throwing a vote that has no chance of changing anything?

You did point right after that that you were aware of the possibility of mafia knowing the lynch was inevitable though, which is interesting. If you are mafia, you are one of the most self-aware players I've ever seen.

If someone votes for a player that has no chance of getting lynched in, say, one or two lynches in a game, that's different IMO from someone who constantly does it throughout the game. Once or twice (or more if it's the same person over and over) I'm okay with because I generally interpret it as a civ thing to be going after the player you are most suspicious of. If one person gives it enough attention over time, it can cause other people to go and examine exactly what the original poster is seeing with a certain player.

Now if you're voting for people who have no chance of being lynched, and constantly throw your vote around on different players, then I view that as more absolving yourself of a lynch. Which looks more like a baddie act.

So I don't think "throwing a vote that has no chance of changing anything" is an exercise in futility. It can pay off down the road sometimes.

i'm not exactly sure what point BWT11 is making here, so i am just hoping he can clarify? it sounds like he is lending me a little support for my late Elohcin vote, but the reason for his support doesn't make sense as i understand it. it seems he is suggesting i was piling on Elohcin because it'd get more attention on her later in the game from other players seeking to understand my case against her. but she was about to be lynched and thus die, so that is a strange concept. can you reword this somehow?

i was gut-leaning town on this guy earlier in the game, but i have less conviction for that now.

That post was directed at DDL, not at you. I was stating that I felt that voting someone who doesn't have a chance of getting lynched isn't necessarily a futile effort or a baddie trying to withhold any responsibility with their vote. And I felt like DDL's statement was that since I did that with Bass, that that's automatically a bad thing. I think it takes more evidence and context than such a simple declaration.

thellama73 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:LOL the hosts are on the poll! Were they before? I don't think so.

Don't vote for me. I have modkills and I'm not afraid to use them.

Turnip Head wrote:I think we should talk about this. Who would rather be taxed $1 every 3 Days? Who would rather be taxed 30% of all earnings?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I think we should talk about this. Who would rather be taxed $1 every 3 Days? Who would rather be taxed 30% of all earnings?

I'd almost think 30% of all earnings would hurt the mafia more on one condition...

@Hosts: Feel free to ignore this if someone else already asked it before I finished my catch-up, but...

Are the mafia allowed to pool their income and resources together or not?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I think we should talk about this. Who would rather be taxed $1 every 3 Days? Who would rather be taxed 30% of all earnings?

I'd almost think 30% of all earnings would hurt the mafia more on one condition...

@Hosts: Feel free to ignore this if someone else already asked it before I finished my catch-up, but...

Are the mafia allowed to pool their income and resources together or not?

Turnip Head wrote:I want to hear more from BR.

Black Rock wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I want to hear more from BR.

Did I miss something you asked?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:RIP Sloonei. great syndicate debut

Vompatti wrote:Voted for Llama for science.

Roxy wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Voted for Llama for science.

Did you just vote llama bc I had just posted that I would anyone who voted one of the Hosts?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:But you read that post. Vompatti is doing the real leg work in here.

Roxy wrote:Your continued effort to discuss butter and guns and the fact that the hosts are on the lynch poll feels distracting. Why didn't you discuss guns and butter at night so we can discuss lynch picks during the day. I doubt very srsly that civvies would give up their only tool (a lynch) of getting rid of baddies just to vote for a host inre: taxes 0 and if anyone does they will deffo be getting an from me.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I did. I'll double-check, but I think the next quote I pulled and posted after my post here was about that. If I did comment on it, I'll just link to the post.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I facepalm at anyone who says they are against discussion of items or abilities.

Those are a huge part of the game. You can't just ignore them, because they're being used all the time. And you can be pretty damn sure mafia is discussing how to use their items to fuck with this lynch and future ones.

I mean, I understand the suspicion if someone just discusses game mechanics and nothing else. That's scummy to me. But attacking anyone who talks about strategy? That's naive.

Maybe it's forum culture so you guys are just not used to it. But where I come from everybody knows that knowing how to deal with abilities can win or lose a game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I facepalm at anyone who says they are against discussion of items or abilities.

Those are a huge part of the game. You can't just ignore them, because they're being used all the time. And you can be pretty damn sure mafia is discussing how to use their items to fuck with this lynch and future ones.

I mean, I understand the suspicion if someone just discusses game mechanics and nothing else. That's scummy to me. But attacking anyone who talks about strategy? That's naive.

Maybe it's forum culture so you guys are just not used to it. But where I come from everybody knows that knowing how to deal with abilities can win or lose a game.

i don't object to talking about it. but do you think it'd be at all wise to "lynch" one of the hosts instead of a suspect to trigger this Day 3 mechanic?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:hope all's well sanmateo.

Black Rock wrote:I don't think it's nitpicking at all. I think putting the word in trust goes a lot further than what I actually said. By saying I defended him and trusted him his misleading. There is a difference in trusting a player and understanding a players actions. If you can't see that then take off the blinders.

Turnip Head wrote:I have no idea where you stand on suspicions.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:it's been pretty dead.

Hey! That's offensive!

Turnip Head wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I want to hear more from BR.

Did I miss something you asked?

Nope. Does your opinion need to be solicited for you to share it? I feel like you're only spending time defending yourself or talking about how you need to catch up. I have no idea where you stand on suspicions.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i don't feel much better about Black Rock after her brief appearance today. she addressed the concerns expressed by fingersplints and nobody else:

Black Rock wrote:I don't think it's nitpicking at all. I think putting the word in trust goes a lot further than what I actually said. By saying I defended him and trusted him his misleading. There is a difference in trusting a player and understanding a players actions. If you can't see that then take off the blinders.

and that response doesn't inspire much confidence. i don't like the continued denial of having defended MP on Day 1 (especially since it was never actually suspicious until that denial), and i don't like the snappy bit i highlighted. it bears the appearance of an indignant mafioso.

i still don't know what her reads are on anyone.

Roxy wrote:TH came straight out of the gate with this "it would be a bad idea" post about jjj "vote" (in quote bc is has not happened yet). TH went after Golden and was wrong. TH defended Elo and he was wrong. Idk why anyone would trust his read on Dragon after that. I realize Elo was a sk but a baddie is a baddie imo. I never hunt specifically for a sk or mafia I look for baddies. To me they are all bad and must die.
He dismissed all of my questions bc "they were MOSTLY about Golden" - which is true but I had posted other questions and tbf some of my questions regarding Golden would help try to comprehend why he is playing the way he is. It deffo does not seem like helpful town behavior. Your continued effort to discuss butter and guns and the fact that the hosts are on the lynch poll feels distracting. Why didn't you discuss guns and butter at night so we can discuss lynch picks during the day. I doubt very srsly that civvies would give up their only tool (a lynch) of getting rid of baddies just to vote for a host inre: taxes 0 and if anyone does they will deffo be getting an from me. I really think you will be getting my vote today.

Black Rock wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i don't feel much better about Black Rock after her brief appearance today. she addressed the concerns expressed by fingersplints and nobody else:

Black Rock wrote:I don't think it's nitpicking at all. I think putting the word in trust goes a lot further than what I actually said. By saying I defended him and trusted him his misleading. There is a difference in trusting a player and understanding a players actions. If you can't see that then take off the blinders.

and that response doesn't inspire much confidence. i don't like the continued denial of having defended MP on Day 1 (especially since it was never actually suspicious until that denial), and i don't like the snappy bit i highlighted. it bears the appearance of an indignant mafioso.

i still don't know what her reads are on anyone.

Honestly if you're expecting a long post full of quotes or me naming a bunch of players and giving reads on them it's not my style.

For my suspicions? I am a little suspicious of Splints and TH. It can be a total No U at this point. They have had lots of time to sow their seeds. The way I'm reading it now is Splints is doing all the accusations and TH is sitting behind her with an extra push. Otherwise I haven't paid much attention to anyone else in the past few real life days. That I can admit is not good.

Turnip Head wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i don't feel much better about Black Rock after her brief appearance today. she addressed the concerns expressed by fingersplints and nobody else:

Black Rock wrote:I don't think it's nitpicking at all. I think putting the word in trust goes a lot further than what I actually said. By saying I defended him and trusted him his misleading. There is a difference in trusting a player and understanding a players actions. If you can't see that then take off the blinders.

and that response doesn't inspire much confidence. i don't like the continued denial of having defended MP on Day 1 (especially since it was never actually suspicious until that denial), and i don't like the snappy bit i highlighted. it bears the appearance of an indignant mafioso.

i still don't know what her reads are on anyone.

Honestly if you're expecting a long post full of quotes or me naming a bunch of players and giving reads on them it's not my style.

For my suspicions? I am a little suspicious of Splints and TH. It can be a total No U at this point. They have had lots of time to sow their seeds. The way I'm reading it now is Splints is doing all the accusations and TH is sitting behind her with an extra push. Otherwise I haven't paid much attention to anyone else in the past few real life days. That I can admit is not good.

So your only suspects are the people who suspect you Do you think splintsy is wrong to suspect you at this point? Do you think I'm wrong to?

Black Rock wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Black Rock wrote:For my suspicions? I am a little suspicious of Splints and TH. It can be a total No U at this point. They have had lots of time to sow their seeds. The way I'm reading it now is Splints is doing all the accusations and TH is sitting behind her with an extra push. Otherwise I haven't paid much attention to anyone else in the past few real life days. That I can admit is not good.

So your only suspects are the people who suspect you Do you think splintsy is wrong to suspect you at this point? Do you think I'm wrong to?

Well from my perspective yes. You are wrong so the way I see it you are seeing something that is not there and is wrong. That is my perspective, but you don't know what I do.

Turnip Head wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Black Rock wrote:For my suspicions? I am a little suspicious of Splints and TH. It can be a total No U at this point. They have had lots of time to sow their seeds. The way I'm reading it now is Splints is doing all the accusations and TH is sitting behind her with an extra push. Otherwise I haven't paid much attention to anyone else in the past few real life days. That I can admit is not good.

So your only suspects are the people who suspect you Do you think splintsy is wrong to suspect you at this point? Do you think I'm wrong to?

Well from my perspective yes. You are wrong so the way I see it you are seeing something that is not there and is wrong. That is my perspective, but you don't know what I do.

Something being wrong isn't the same as something not being there. You haven't discussed any suspicions until just now. I know you've been sick, and the thread is large, but a civvie BR would, in my opinion still find ways to get involved in the hunt.

But okay, you don't know what I know either! I'm not bad, and by extension I'm hesitant to trust your take on splintsy, but for the sake of argument let's say she's civvie too, because I think her reasons for suspecting you are valid. Who are your suspects if me and splintsy are both civs, BR?

And for what it's worth I'm not buying you being suspicious of me We do this dance far too often, you and I, for you to have not thought anything of my previous behavior in this game, for this to be the only thing I've done that's caught your eye.

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think it's pretty dangerous that people are taking the notion that one of the 5 players to kickstart the game MUST be scum as a foregone conclusion. That encourages a narrower focus of suspicion not only in Day 1, but in all ensuing days until the alleged scum is identified.

There's more to Mafia than mere probability.

I agree.

Consequentially, I'm voting for Golden. I think he's bad news this game.

I was planning on voting first.

I would like to hear more from Turnip Head. What are your thoughts on JaggedJimmyJay? Or any of the new members of the Syndicate?

Why is Golden bad news in your eyes? Is it that he is playing the role of mediator/player representative? I've been doing the same, thought with less generalization.

I'm mixed on JJJ. A few of his posts stand out but he's the kind of player where the more he posts the more we'll get to see if he slips up.

No strong thoughts on any of the new players but I don't suspect any of them yet.

Golden is not acting very Golden-like, if you ask me.

Turnip Head wrote:

Golden wrote:So, why does that make me bad enough to vote for?

Weird way to phrase the question but anyways...

It doesn't make you bad enough to vote for. It just makes you enough to vote for on Day 1 to get some reactions. I think we've gotten a few, haven't we?

If you had to vote right now for the person you most think is bad, who would you vote for?

Turnip Head wrote:I'm going to go ahead and vote TinyBubbles.

Turnip Head wrote:I don't think Elo's bad. Especially her recent reactions read genuinely to me.

I thought TinyBubbles' vote for Elo was sketchy because, if you look back through Bubbles' posts, she was setting up suspicion of Bass and only Bass, but then MP and Jay make one post each talking about Elo being a better option, and Bubbles immediately rolls with that. The line "If you're a civvie Elo I'm so so sorry!" reeks a bit because if Bubbles was really sorry she wouldn't have voted a player she's not suspicious of. And I think it's a little hokey to allude to someone being lynched when you're literally the first person to cast a vote for that person.

That said, I thought I saw one thing in Bubbles' filter that made me think she's on the level and just playing a little loosely. So I guess what I'd like is Bubbles' answer to the following "Why abandon your read on Bass and piggyback onto the suspicion of Jay and MP?" I believe Bubbles mentioned trusting those two, and I don't think they're baddies either atm, but it doesn't mean they're right about everything either.

MP, can you once again lay out why you don't think Elo's thought process can come from a civ perspective? We've both played many games with her, we both know her perspective is not always the same as everyone else's, so I'm curious exactly what you're seeing there. And what happened to your splints' suspicion?

fingersplints wrote:Why are you trying to divert suspicion to me TH? I thought we were friends

Turnip Head wrote:And you make some good points about BR. I look forward to her response.

Turnip Head wrote:Black Rock is a really hard read. She has not contributed much, but it could be related to RL busyness. It could also be related to RL busyness AND being bad. She's missed both votes, FWIW.

And I do not discount the idea that splintsy and BR could be bad together, but I'm more inclined to look BR's way first, since I think splints might be onto something with her post about MP.

Black Rock wrote:Now I have to check my own posts, I don't remember saying I trust MP.

It shouldn't take you too long :P And you didn't say that. I'm looking carefully at what you did say though and wondering if you had an ulterior motive for responding the way you did to Elo in the post in question.

Turnip Head wrote:I want to hear more from BR.

Black Rock wrote:You got what you wanted TH, you put me back in the game and made me do work.

Turnip Head wrote:I'm going to go ahead and vote TinyBubbles.

What? Sure, TinyBubbles was working on flawed logic but instead of questioning it you just jump right on a vote? Seems like another easy way out.

Turnip Head wrote:I don't think Elo's bad. Especially her recent reactions read genuinely to me.

I thought TinyBubbles' vote for Elo was sketchy because, if you look back through Bubbles' posts, she was setting up suspicion of Bass and only Bass, but then MP and Jay make one post each talking about Elo being a better option, and Bubbles immediately rolls with that. The line "If you're a civvie Elo I'm so so sorry!" reeks a bit because if Bubbles was really sorry she wouldn't have voted a player she's not suspicious of. And I think it's a little hokey to allude to someone being lynched when you're literally the first person to cast a vote for that person.

That said, I thought I saw one thing in Bubbles' filter that made me think she's on the level and just playing a little loosely. So I guess what I'd like is Bubbles' answer to the following "Why abandon your read on Bass and piggyback onto the suspicion of Jay and MP?" I believe Bubbles mentioned trusting those two, and I don't think they're baddies either atm, but it doesn't mean they're right about everything either.

MP, can you once again lay out why you don't think Elo's thought process can come from a civ perspective? We've both played many games with her, we both know her perspective is not always the same as everyone else's, so I'm curious exactly what you're seeing there. And what happened to your splints' suspicion?

Interesting, especially when paired with this...

fingersplints wrote:Why are you trying to divert suspicion to me TH? I thought we were friends

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The next person to posts some reads gets 5 bucks on paypal